Tinpot
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I'm really tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 20, 2023 11:24:07 GMT 1
Preseason 2nd favourites for relegation (only ahead of Derby) lose in <ahem> "controversial" circumstances in the playoff final and Carlos isn't considered to have been a success?
Neil Warnock probably failed last season too...
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Post by htafcokay on Jun 20, 2023 11:25:50 GMT 1
Preseason 2nd favourites for relegation (only ahead of Derby) lose in <ahem> "controversial" circumstances in the playoff final and Carlos isn't considered to have been a success? Neil Warnock probably failed last season too... We lost because we didn't bother to have any shots on target. Is Lee Clark considered a success for losing in a final? I just have a problem with people constantly blowing smoke up one ex manager's arse for the sake of it, whilst making up excuses for why he didn't get us over the line and then attacking anyone that doesn't like him.
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Tinpot
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I'm really tinpot
Posts: 23,613
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 20, 2023 11:35:08 GMT 1
Preseason 2nd favourites for relegation (only ahead of Derby) lose in <ahem> "controversial" circumstances in the playoff final and Carlos isn't considered to have been a success? Neil Warnock probably failed last season too... We lost because we didn't bother to have any shots on target. Is Lee Clark considered a success for losing in a final? I just have a problem with people constantly blowing smoke up one ex manager's arse for the sake of it, whilst making up excuses for why he didn't get us over the line and then attacking anyone that doesn't like him. If Lee Clark had taken over a side with the 3rd smallest budget in the division, who were 2nd favourites for relegation ahead of only an absolute basket case with a huge points deduction, and then lost in the playoff final (even in the uncontroversial circumstances of our defeat to Peterborough) then I would have considered him to have been a success too. Or maybe Brighton have had an unsuccessful season because they failed to qualify for the Champions League... It's not a case of blowing smoke up his arse for the sake of it, as recognising that he massively overachieved here. Nor is it a case of making up excuses. Most of us acknowledge that neither side in that final played anywhere near the level that they had done throughout the season.
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Post by htafcokay on Jun 20, 2023 11:38:18 GMT 1
We lost because we didn't bother to have any shots on target. Is Lee Clark considered a success for losing in a final? I just have a problem with people constantly blowing smoke up one ex manager's arse for the sake of it, whilst making up excuses for why he didn't get us over the line and then attacking anyone that doesn't like him. If Lee Clark had taken over a side with the 3rd smallest budget in the division, who were 2nd favourites for relegation ahead of only an absolute basket case with a huge points deduction, and then list in the final (even in the uncontroversial circumstances of our defeat to Peterborough) then I would have considered him to have been a success too. Or maybe Brighton have had an unsuccessful season because they failed to qualify for the Champions League... It's not a case of blowing smoke up his arse for the sake of it, as recognising that he massively overachieved here. Nor is it a case of making up excuses. Most of us acknowledge that neither side in that final played anywhere near the level that they had done throughout the season. If he's such a good manager, then I'm sure he'll achieve promotion with West Brom. And if so, I'll hold my hands up. But to read some of the nonsense I've read over the last two years, such as "he's one of our greatest ever managers", "he's better than Wagner", "he's achieved more than Wagner achieved" here and other ridiculous statements, I just can't abide the love-in. I've never known a manager so untouchable in my years of watching Town.
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Post by townarentbest on Jun 20, 2023 11:52:11 GMT 1
It's interesting that other times we've finished with a high amount of points aren't talked about or considered massive successes. 🤔😆 Probably aided and abetted by Corberans final season being against a backdrop of very low expectation. Worth pointing out that Carlos took us to our second highest points total EVER...the only time we've exceeded 82 points was the 87 points under Lee Clark when we got to the play off final, where that one performance overshadowed (negatively) the whole season in a way that didn't happen after the Forest final. In fact looking back at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Huddersfield_Town_A.F.C._seasons - it looks like Lee Clark was actually our most successful manager ever (although obviously the points changed), and nobody bettered him at finishing consistently high up a table since 1922-1928 !! I WONDER...if we'd finished much lower down in Clark's first seasons, but then the 2010-11 season played out exactly the same, finishing 3rd, but this time it being classed as a massive overachievement, and then bombing out - whether he'd have been given the end of the next season to finish the job rather than being sacked when he was. I suspect so...that play-off campaign defined his position in Dean's eyes, irrespective of what had happened before...whereas Carlos seems totally obfuscated from the play-off failure, perhaps buffered by feelings of being hard done by etc.
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Post by mosher on Jun 20, 2023 11:54:08 GMT 1
If Lee Clark had taken over a side with the 3rd smallest budget in the division, who were 2nd favourites for relegation ahead of only an absolute basket case with a huge points deduction, and then list in the final (even in the uncontroversial circumstances of our defeat to Peterborough) then I would have considered him to have been a success too. Or maybe Brighton have had an unsuccessful season because they failed to qualify for the Champions League... It's not a case of blowing smoke up his arse for the sake of it, as recognising that he massively overachieved here. Nor is it a case of making up excuses. Most of us acknowledge that neither side in that final played anywhere near the level that they had done throughout the season. If he's such a good manager, then I'm sure he'll achieve promotion with West Brom. And if so, I'll hold my hands up. But to read some of the nonsense I've read over the last two years, such as "he's one of our greatest ever managers", "he's better than Wagner", "he's achieved more than Wagner achieved" here and other ridiculous statements, I just can't abide the love-in. I've never known a manager so untouchable in my years of watching Town.This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game!
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jun 20, 2023 11:58:14 GMT 1
Preseason 2nd favourites for relegation (only ahead of Derby) lose in <ahem> "controversial" circumstances in the playoff final and Carlos isn't considered to have been a success? Neil Warnock probably failed last season too... We lost because we didn't bother to have any shots on target. Is Lee Clark considered a success for losing in a final? I just have a problem with people constantly blowing smoke up one ex manager's arse for the sake of it, whilst making up excuses for why he didn't get us over the line and then attacking anyone that doesn't like him. Forest were no great shakes that day either, and they just got luckier than we did. It would have been interesting to see how we’d have fared in the PL, not that much different to Forest I expect. Certainly would have been more realism after our brief foray a few yrs ago. Maybe we’ll get the chance to test that theory in the next 2-3 seasons?
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Post by htafcokay on Jun 20, 2023 11:58:47 GMT 1
If he's such a good manager, then I'm sure he'll achieve promotion with West Brom. And if so, I'll hold my hands up. But to read some of the nonsense I've read over the last two years, such as "he's one of our greatest ever managers", "he's better than Wagner", "he's achieved more than Wagner achieved" here and other ridiculous statements, I just can't abide the love-in. I've never known a manager so untouchable in my years of watching Town.This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! And a good number of fans claiming that Corberanball was amazing and the best they'd ever seen. I was watching completely different matches. When I could be bothered to even go.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jun 20, 2023 11:59:22 GMT 1
Lol
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Post by royrace on Jun 20, 2023 12:00:13 GMT 1
After failing again to secure automatic promotion Moore needed a convincing play off to hang on to his job in my view, a pounding at London Road probably made up the minds of his employers as they travelled back North, little did they know the Peterborough team & play off final officials would lend them a huge hand to get promoted......Far from convincing & a definite no for Moore & co at JS. Took them down originally didnt he and struggled to get them back up again very nearly messing it up at the last minute. However you would think after the points haul, the heroics of that second leg and winning the final they would have at least given him a chance in the champ! Seems very harsh and he comes across as a great guy. I actually think there's more chance Wednesday will now struggle which is good for us I guess. Having said all that definitely wouldn't want him as a coach here, don't think he's done enough at champ level previously, although I think with momentum he'd have done well at Wednesday this season.
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Post by mosher on Jun 20, 2023 12:01:04 GMT 1
This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! And a good number of fans claiming that Corberanball was amazing and the best they'd ever seen. I was watching completely different matches. when i could be bothered to even go. At least you can see that I called his football shite AND said he overachieved. Many people seem to ignore the second part when we slag off the football played.
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Post by htafcokay on Jun 20, 2023 12:02:59 GMT 1
And a good number of fans claiming that Corberanball was amazing and the best they'd ever seen. I was watching completely different matches. when i could be bothered to even go. At least you can see that I called his football shite AND said he overachieved. Many people seem to ignore the second part when we slag off the football played. Of course he overachieved.
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Post by htafcokay on Jun 20, 2023 12:03:30 GMT 1
Here he is again, the obsessed stalker, adding nothing of note to the conversation as per usual.
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Post by royrace on Jun 20, 2023 12:06:38 GMT 1
We lost because we didn't bother to have any shots on target. Is Lee Clark considered a success for losing in a final? I just have a problem with people constantly blowing smoke up one ex manager's arse for the sake of it, whilst making up excuses for why he didn't get us over the line and then attacking anyone that doesn't like him. Forest were no great shakes that day either, and they just got luckier than we did.It would have been interesting to see how we’d have fared in the PL, not that much different to Forest I expect. Certainly would have been more realism after our brief foray a few yrs ago. Maybe we’ll get the chance to test that theory in the next 2-3 seasons? Exactly, they were as bad as us and I'm sure if we'd have got one of the pens we'd have gone on to win it. Probably the strangest ever season as a Town fan, never seen such efficient and pragmatic football, winning week in week out was brilliant but I don't think I ever saw us play well! I'm sure that was the main reason for the flat atmos at Wembley, all seemed a bit surreal almost like we shouldn't be there! I think it showed Corberan was a tactical genius personally, adapted the style based on what he had at his disposal, exactly the same as Warnock always has. Looking forward to seeing what Neil can do with what is a very similar squad.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jun 20, 2023 12:06:41 GMT 1
Lmao
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irverino
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Posts: 4,664
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Post by irverino on Jun 20, 2023 12:46:09 GMT 1
If he's such a good manager, then I'm sure he'll achieve promotion with West Brom. And if so, I'll hold my hands up. But to read some of the nonsense I've read over the last two years, such as "he's one of our greatest ever managers", "he's better than Wagner", "he's achieved more than Wagner achieved" here and other ridiculous statements, I just can't abide the love-in. I've never known a manager so untouchable in my years of watching Town.This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! Warnock's first season (93') when I think at one point we were 34 points from 34 played, then after losing at Carlisle in the 2nd leg we went 12 unbeaten & started the promotion campaign losing only to Wycombe Wanderers twice before Xmas (?).......Some turn around & a pretty good reason to continue with your season ticket.
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Post by haskins on Jun 20, 2023 13:05:27 GMT 1
If he's such a good manager, then I'm sure he'll achieve promotion with West Brom. And if so, I'll hold my hands up. But to read some of the nonsense I've read over the last two years, such as "he's one of our greatest ever managers", "he's better than Wagner", "he's achieved more than Wagner achieved" here and other ridiculous statements, I just can't abide the love-in. I've never known a manager so untouchable in my years of watching Town.This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! . Well since you kindly lent me that hat I can confirm turgidity is indeed a word - swollen with fluid …. Tumescent I suppose, although I would never apply that to Corberan’s approach.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 20, 2023 13:06:02 GMT 1
After failing again to secure automatic promotion Moore needed a convincing play off to hang on to his job in my view, a pounding at London Road probably made up the minds of his employers as they travelled back North, little did they know the Peterborough team & play off final officials would lend them a huge hand to get promoted......Far from convincing & a definite no for Moore & co at JS. Took them down originally didnt he and struggled to get them back up again very nearly messing it up at the last minute. However you would think after the points haul, the heroics of that second leg and winning the final they would have at least given him a chance in the champ! Seems very harsh and he comes across as a great guy. I actually think there's more chance Wednesday will now struggle which is good for us I guess. Having said all that definitely wouldn't want him as a coach here, don't think he's done enough at champ level previously, although I think with momentum he'd have done well at Wednesday this season. True, but harsh. He didn't take over until March & they were already in serious trouble by then. If NW hadn't come back I'd have him here. Done a decent job wherever he's been imo.
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Tinpot
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I'm really tinpot
Posts: 23,613
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 20, 2023 13:07:23 GMT 1
This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! And a good number of fans claiming that Corberanball was amazing and the best they'd ever seen. I was watching completely different matches. When I could be bothered to even go. Tactically they may well have been the best. Entertainment-wise... not so much.
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Post by mosher on Jun 20, 2023 13:07:46 GMT 1
This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! . Well since you kindly lent me that hat I can confirm turgidity is indeed a word - swollen with fluid …. Tumescent I suppose, although I would never apply that to Corberan’s approach. Good to know. I never knew turgid meant swollen too, always knew it as the second meaning on here: uk.search.yahoo.com/search?fr=mcafee&type=E211GB384G0&p=turgid+meaningEvery day's a school day
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Post by Porrohman on Jun 20, 2023 13:09:32 GMT 1
Lamport is the best player to grace to the PL but he is also the worst manager to grace the PL. The man should not get another managerial job of any kind. Cristiano Ronaldo. Martin From Wakefield. I'd have Hazard and Henry above Ronaldo in his spells over here. No argument about the Madrid version of him.
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Post by Porrohman on Jun 20, 2023 13:11:06 GMT 1
Preseason 2nd favourites for relegation (only ahead of Derby) lose in <ahem> "controversial" circumstances in the playoff final and Carlos isn't considered to have been a success? Neil Warnock probably failed last season too... We lost because we didn't bother to have any shots on target. Is Lee Clark considered a success for losing in a final? I just have a problem with people constantly blowing smoke up one ex manager's arse for the sake of it, whilst making up excuses for why he didn't get us over the line and then attacking anyone that doesn't like him. Lee Clark had a relatively open chequebook, Corberan had a bottom 6 quality squad.
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Post by Clark W Griswald (CAS) on Jun 20, 2023 13:18:29 GMT 1
Here he is again, the obsessed stalker, adding nothing of note to the conversation as per usual. Why don't you just block him ? That's what I do. I find it quite pleasing
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Post by Oblong of Dreams on Jun 20, 2023 16:57:16 GMT 1
If he's such a good manager, then I'm sure he'll achieve promotion with West Brom. And if so, I'll hold my hands up. But to read some of the nonsense I've read over the last two years, such as "he's one of our greatest ever managers", "he's better than Wagner", "he's achieved more than Wagner achieved" here and other ridiculous statements, I just can't abide the love-in. I've never known a manager so untouchable in my years of watching Town.This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! At times under Carlos there was a bit too much aimless tiki-taka... but he's the ONLY manager to achieve positive goal difference at the end of a season since 2012. Even under Wagner when we were promoted on -2, I think it was March before we won a game by more than one goal.
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Post by townarentbest on Jun 20, 2023 17:17:11 GMT 1
This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! At times under Carlos there was a bit too much aimless tiki-taka... but he's the ONLY manager to achieve positive goal difference at the end of a season since 2012. Even under Wagner when we were promoted on -2, I think it was March before we won a game by more than one goal. No > 1 goal wins in March under Wagner...although there were in January, February and April!
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Post by Oblong of Dreams on Jun 20, 2023 18:03:36 GMT 1
At times under Carlos there was a bit too much aimless tiki-taka... but he's the ONLY manager to achieve positive goal difference at the end of a season since 2012. Even under Wagner when we were promoted on -2, I think it was March before we won a game by more than one goal. No > 1 goal wins in March under Wagner...although there were in January, February and April! Thanks for the correction. Anyway, whilst there were some fantastic wins in that season, most of them were by the odd goal or two and we rarely if ever blew an opponent away. There were quite a few heavy defeats though, hence the -2 goal difference at the end of the season.
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Post by htafcokay on Jun 20, 2023 18:05:16 GMT 1
No > 1 goal wins in March under Wagner...although there were in January, February and April! Thanks for the correction. Anyway, whilst there were some fantastic wins in that season, most of them were by the odd goal or two and we rarely if ever blew an opponent away. There were quite a few heavy defeats though, hence the -2 goal difference at the end of the season. We only won three games by more than one goal that season, if I remember correctly. One of them was the best performance I've ever seen from a Town side.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jun 20, 2023 18:14:37 GMT 1
Wagner had some decent results in prem. palace 3 nil away Watford 4 v 1 away and AFC Bournemouth 4 v 1 at home .
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Jun 20, 2023 19:10:56 GMT 1
Here he is again, the obsessed stalker, adding nothing of note to the conversation as per usual. Don’t react then! The more you give a reaction the more you will get baited.
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Post by tepidterrier on Jun 20, 2023 19:51:17 GMT 1
This I agree 100% with. Every time someone mentions the turgidity (is that a word?) of the football that play-off season, it's like we've said we deserved to be relegated or something. He well over-achieved with the squad we had, but I'd rather NW's "hoofball" than play that turgid shit every week. I've never know a season (ST since 93) where I've come out of so many games wondering how the hell we didn't lose, never mind WON the game! And a good number of fans claiming that Corberanball was amazing and the best they'd ever seen. I was watching completely different matches. When I could be bothered to even go. I flip flop between the two opinions. On one hand, it was brilliantly controlled and choreographed football that got the most out of some quite limited players. They scored some really good goals. But it didn't make me happy in the way a side that won that many games should've done. On the other, it was turgid as anything, left no room for players to express themselves, and was so calculated that you never saw any risks being taken. Part of the joy of football is seeing us win a last ditch 40/60 tackle, or score an improbable goal. I think the reasons behind a lot of the shrugs and indifference to the current Man City team are the same as the ones for our 21-22 team. Joyless modern football with too much emphasis on structure and positional play. Nonetheless it was still a good achievement to get as close as they did to promotion.
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