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Post by bluestripe on May 4, 2024 23:53:18 GMT 1
So Warnock was trying to sign players that were involved with his son's agency. What's the difference between Warnock doing that and Cartwright bringing in people involved with Beswick Sports, who he used to be an agent for? Peter Jackson signed several players he'd represented as an agent, does that mean Jacko was dodgy too? It's a tricky one. If you or your family are going to financially benefit from the transaction, then that has definitely overstepped the mark. If you are using your connections and past relationships to deliver a good outcome to your current employer (at arm's length), then that is ok and perhaps why you were employed in the first place. The tricky question is whether the transactions are being done at arm's length (i.e is there any sort of benefit to the employee from the third party not disclosed and agreed with the employer OR is the relationship leading to suboptimal outcomes for the employer as a favour to the third party). |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on May 5, 2024 0:47:10 GMT 1
Any of the posters on here who are implying that there was a valid reason he went care to share anything? We have had this before on here and nobody actually gave any reasons. I have no inside knowledge but pre-season is a starter. Wanting to keep an injury prone Danny Ward because he liked him is another, he wasn't in the matchday squad 23 times. Fitness seems to have been an issue all season, starting I assume with pre-season. He has a poor track record with DOFs, which in a club that has one makes for possible issues. Not saying that model is best but if that is what you have then that is what you work with. So in short you’re speculating? Some posters on this thread imply they know hard facts as to why he went. I have no idea as to what the reasons were but if some posters are going to come on here and say things like “Went for the correct reasons tarnished his legacy unfortunately” then back it up with some hard facts. Otherwise it is just speculation and opinion. |
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Post by willo on May 5, 2024 1:55:12 GMT 1
I know a couple of things about Neil Warnock for certain because I witnessed them. 1) he delivered a promotion in the mid 90’s to the Championship. 2) he came in last season and by some miracle, managed to keep us in the Championship with games to spare. All these other stories bandied about for the last 6 months are simply hearsay.
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TTerrier
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Post by TTerrier on May 5, 2024 2:12:06 GMT 1
Glennon said Town shouldn't have brought Warnock back, even though he performed a miracle by keeping us up. What a stupid thing to say. Once we stayed in the Championship, we were let down by Kevin's henchmen who proved how incompetent they are. But has our owner got the guts to sack them immediately because they've pulled the wool over his eyes. Thank God Glennon's not on the Town Board. After everything this season, the icing on the turd cake is having to listen a completely forgettable retired goalkeeper who played for us for a bit whilst we were even shitter than we are now. |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on May 5, 2024 8:14:52 GMT 1
I know a couple of things about Neil Warnock for certain because I witnessed them. 1) he delivered a promotion in the mid 90’s to the Championship. 2) he came in last season and by some miracle, managed to keep us in the Championship with games to spare. All these other stories bandied about for the last 6 months are simply hearsay. Hearsay that is started by certain posters who then go quiet when asked to share what they know. Unless one of those posters comes out with some genuine insider knowledge and not just speculation I call bullshit. Just sheep who are following the crowd with no real idea of what went on. I personally think he should have walked as a hero in summer but the long and short of it is fairly simple, had Warnock remained we would still be a championship side. |
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Post by workshyfop on May 5, 2024 8:20:37 GMT 1
I’d rather have someone allegedly a bit dodgy and still be in the Championship than someone squeaky clean and be in League 1.
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on May 5, 2024 8:27:43 GMT 1
I know nothing about what NW did or didn’t do behind the scenes during his time at the club this season. What I do know for sure is that somehow the club has to move forward and unite, and that includes us, the fans. He is not blameless in our demise this season.
NW is over with, done, in the past as far as Town is concerned, same with Wagner. This thread and others about NW need to drop off the front page on here ASAP.
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on May 5, 2024 8:31:52 GMT 1
I know nothing about what NW did or didn’t do behind the scenes during his time at the club this season. What I do know for sure is that somehow the club has to move forward and unite, and that includes us, the fans. He is not blameless in our demise this season. NW is over with, done, in the past as far as Town is concerned, same with Wagner. This thread and others about NW need to drop off the front page on here ASAP. Couldn't agree more and the quickest way for that to happen is for the posters who are “suggesting” things about him without any f*cking idea of what did or did not really happen to give it a rest. |
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Post by terrier36 on May 5, 2024 9:00:45 GMT 1
I think most people have moved on. Just a few that haven't!
We don't and won't ever know if he would have kept us up. Simple as that, we can pretend he would have to make people feel better but the reality is we didn't.
You can love him all you want, or hate him but doesn't effect HTAFC anymore. That is history.
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Post by htfcfcfc on May 5, 2024 9:12:56 GMT 1
I know a couple of things about Neil Warnock for certain because I witnessed them. 1) he delivered a promotion in the mid 90’s to the Championship. 2) he came in last season and by some miracle, managed to keep us in the Championship with games to spare. All these other stories bandied about for the last 6 months are simply hearsay. Hearsay that is started by certain posters who then go quiet when asked to share what they know. Unless one of those posters comes out with some genuine insider knowledge and not just speculation I call bullshit. Just sheep who are following the crowd with no real idea of what went on. I personally think he should have walked as a hero in summer but the long and short of it is fairly simple, had Warnock remained we would still be a championship side. Or you judge a poster based on history. Maybe there’s information that could be sensitive for someone else so can’t be divulged. Agree NW should have gone after the miracle and (after agreeing for him to carry on) I would have personally given him till the Jan window given my belief in what happened but there’s zero evidence to suggest he could have kept us up over the season. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on May 5, 2024 9:23:28 GMT 1
I think this thread has come back around because the current manager is blaming NW's preseason for relegation ... that along with some players attitudes - well four - based on yesterdays team selection ... and then one of those four came runner up in player of the season (so actually played well when was he on the pitch this year!) and two are squad players who are second or third choice in their respective positions
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2024 10:37:26 GMT 1
I have no inside knowledge but pre-season is a starter. Wanting to keep an injury prone Danny Ward because he liked him is another, he wasn't in the matchday squad 23 times. Fitness seems to have been an issue all season, starting I assume with pre-season. He has a poor track record with DOFs, which in a club that has one makes for possible issues. Not saying that model is best but if that is what you have then that is what you work with. So in short you’re speculating? Some posters on this thread imply they know hard facts as to why he went. I have no idea as to what the reasons were but if some posters are going to come on here and say things like “Went for the correct reasons tarnished his legacy unfortunately” then back it up with some hard facts. Otherwise it is just speculation and opinion. It’s a forum. You may struggle for anything other than speculation and opinion. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on May 5, 2024 11:11:08 GMT 1
The only thing I would say about the re-hiring of NW, is that it was probably symptomatic of a new owner that had recently taken charge, didn’t know the industry over here, and in the end he plumped for what he thought was a sensible holding pattern, until we were sorted properly. Let’s face it, Warnock held all the aces, so he would have ensured he was looked after, considering he departed last season floating around on the back of a guard of honour and the adulation from the supporters.
On the face of it, it was the right thing to do, but all parties needed to understand the terms and honour them.
As Walton says, we have to move on, but we have to learn from what have ultimately proven to be bad appointments, where the dressing room apparently holds a lot of power etc.
The club needs to have some strong harsh words across the board, the Mgr, the players, the backroom. Because if this were a normal business with all this going on, and productivity sliding off a cliff, all those people would be out of work in weeks.
The club need to get a grip of this before it slides into even more turmoil.
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Post by Amigo on May 5, 2024 11:24:51 GMT 1
He shouldn't have been brought back after last season. We should have already had a new man lined up to hit the ground running in the summer, the fact we didn't was the start of the shit show.
Then the summer window. Dogshit. Absolutely dogshit.
Then when we decide to keep him then keep him unless things are going really wrong on the pitch, by this point you've planted your flag anyway so keep it in the ground.
Then Darren. Decent previous record but surely in an interview you'd be thinking lovely fella but not sure, and if you're not sure you don't make such a big jump.
Then the January window, on paper decent signings, good centre half who hasn't played, 2 strikers who again haven't really played (if fit I do think all 3 could be good next season but the "if fit" is the issue), didn't bring anyone in that can pass a ball or a left back.
Then keeping Darren as long as we did.
Then appointing AB who wants to play a way our players just aren't built for or fit enough to do. If he comes in at the end of last season or now I think it goes better for him. But he's having to adapt to a new league, new country, his own style, and a group of players that largely couldn't give flying shit.
All in all, I think the recruitment of staff and players has been shit, all the managers have been shit, and the players have been shit and from top to bottom we deserve to be in League 1 again.
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Post by waggers on May 5, 2024 11:44:57 GMT 1
So we're now relegated, but a 'mediocre' performance under Warnock which you claim would have kept us in the league wouldn't be good enough? It's been a shambles by Nagle's suits from the start of the season onwards. Bring in a new manager at the start of pre season or leave Warnock in for the year. Do not, sack Neil Warnock for Darren Moore. I agree with all of the second paragraph. I don't think I said anywhere that staying up wouldn't be good enough! All I've said is that a previous poster that described Warnock's reign this season as mediocre was being generous. I didn't make the definition of the word. If anyone also thinks that finishing 4th from bottom by 1 point is average then they are struggling with maths as well as English. Would I have accepted 4th bottom? Absolutely. Would it have been mediocre? Absolutely not. Fair do's, your wording in your previous post made a different argument. I'm not saying Warnock started the season great at all, and pre season was a Cornwall jolly boys outing. However, we wouldn't be in L1 next season with NW. Nagle should have been patient, folk with footballing knowledge should have advised him what would happen if Warnock is removed so early on in the season. I do agree with posts that claim we need to move on, I want to reduce more chaos and keep AB. We're the Chelsea of the lower Leagues in terms of managerial change, without the big spending. |
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Post by royrace on May 5, 2024 12:42:50 GMT 1
I agree with all of the second paragraph. I don't think I said anywhere that staying up wouldn't be good enough! All I've said is that a previous poster that described Warnock's reign this season as mediocre was being generous. I didn't make the definition of the word. If anyone also thinks that finishing 4th from bottom by 1 point is average then they are struggling with maths as well as English. Would I have accepted 4th bottom? Absolutely. Would it have been mediocre? Absolutely not. Fair do's, your wording in your previous post made a different argument. I'm not saying Warnock started the season great at all, and pre season was a Cornwall jolly boys outing. However, we wouldn't be in L1 next season with NW. Nagle should have been patient, folk with footballing knowledge should have advised him what would happen if Warnock is removed so early on in the season. I do agree with posts that claim we need to move on, I want to reduce more chaos and keep AB. We're the Chelsea of the lower Leagues in terms of managerial change, without the big spending. I just find it laughable and ridiculous that people are surprised that Warnock did Warnock things; pre season crap, just went to the pub, wanted to sign his favourite players etc etc. No fcking shit sherlock, its what he does and its what he has always done, to great success usually. If you take him on, to give some continuity and time, like we did, then you keep him on until the mission has been accomplished, in this case the mission was safety. What you don't do is act all surprised when he is behaving in an unorthodox manner and get all shirty when his ego comes to the fore. They should have let him get on with it until we were safe and left their egos at home until he'd finished. They thought they knew best and as predicted by a LOT of Town fans and anyone that knows the league really, they've been made to look the mugs that they are. Most of us knew it was a huge mistake, what we didn't know or expect was for that first mistake to be compounded by more huge mistakes. Hiring DM, keeping him too long, pathetic Jan window when we were desperate, then appointing a wholly unsuitable manager for the job in hand when it should have been given to a specialist. The fault isnt with the initial decision to keep on NW, its everything thats followed and I can only assume the people paid handsomely to make those decisions are the ones to blame. If so they need to be out of the door sharpish because the next target (rebuild and promotion) is going to be a hell of a lot harder to achieve than the one they just failed miserably at (championship survival). |
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Post by rockwall on May 5, 2024 13:33:58 GMT 1
I have no inside knowledge but pre-season is a starter. Wanting to keep an injury prone Danny Ward because he liked him is another, he wasn't in the matchday squad 23 times. Fitness seems to have been an issue all season, starting I assume with pre-season. He has a poor track record with DOFs, which in a club that has one makes for possible issues. Not saying that model is best but if that is what you have then that is what you work with. So in short you’re speculating? Some posters on this thread imply they know hard facts as to why he went. I have no idea as to what the reasons were but if some posters are going to come on here and say things like “Went for the correct reasons tarnished his legacy unfortunately” then back it up with some hard facts. Otherwise it is just speculation and opinion. Some fans imply that DC works for the club even when the hard facts say he doesn't. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 5, 2024 13:51:06 GMT 1
So in short you’re speculating? Some posters on this thread imply they know hard facts as to why he went. I have no idea as to what the reasons were but if some posters are going to come on here and say things like “Went for the correct reasons tarnished his legacy unfortunately” then back it up with some hard facts. Otherwise it is just speculation and opinion. Some fans imply that DC works for the club even when the hard facts say he doesn't. Even when he says on his own Twitter that he's a club advisor? |
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Post by rockwall on May 5, 2024 13:59:48 GMT 1
Some fans imply that DC works for the club even when the hard facts say he doesn't. Even when he says on his own Twitter that he's a club advisor? Don't have Twitter so not seen that. But I'm sure it's been mentioned before that he isn't on payroll etc and just acts as a middle man between fans and Kev. As a friend to Kev and out of care for us fans. He may have given himself that title a bit tongue in cheek. I could be wrong and if so, more fool me. 😁 |
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Post by htafcokay on May 5, 2024 14:04:20 GMT 1
Even when he says on his own Twitter that he's a club advisor? Don't have Twitter so not seen that. But I'm sure it's been mentioned before that he isn't on payroll etc and just acts as a middle man between fans and Kev. As a friend to Kev and out of care for us fans. He may have given himself that title a bit tongue in cheek. I could be wrong and if so, more fool me. 😁 Perhaps he can tell us on here whether he is a club advisor or not. |
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Post by irverino on May 5, 2024 14:07:46 GMT 1
Fair do's, your wording in your previous post made a different argument. I'm not saying Warnock started the season great at all, and pre season was a Cornwall jolly boys outing. However, we wouldn't be in L1 next season with NW. Nagle should have been patient, folk with footballing knowledge should have advised him what would happen if Warnock is removed so early on in the season. I do agree with posts that claim we need to move on, I want to reduce more chaos and keep AB. We're the Chelsea of the lower Leagues in terms of managerial change, without the big spending. I just find it laughable and ridiculous that people are surprised that Warnock did Warnock things; pre season crap, just went to the pub, wanted to sign his favourite players etc etc. No fcking shit sherlock, its what he does and its what he has always done, to great success usually. If you take him on, to give some continuity and time, like we did, then you keep him on until the mission has been accomplished, in this case the mission was safety. What you don't do is act all surprised when he is behaving in an unorthodox manner and get all shirty when his ego comes to the fore. They should have let him get on with it until we were safe and left their egos at home until he'd finished. They thought they knew best and as predicted by a LOT of Town fans and anyone that knows the league really, they've been made to look the mugs that they are. Most of us knew it was a huge mistake, what we didn't know or expect was for that first mistake to be compounded by more huge mistakes. Hiring DM, keeping him too long, pathetic Jan window when we were desperate, then appointing a wholly unsuitable manager for the job in hand when it should have been given to a specialist. The fault isnt with the initial decision to keep on NW, its everything thats followed and I can only assume the people paid handsomely to make those decisions are the ones to blame. If so they need to be out of the door sharpish because the next target (rebuild and promotion) is going to be a hell of a lot harder to achieve than the one they just failed miserably at (championship survival). Warnock giving the players time off for winning games......DM & AB soon put a stop to that. |
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Post by rockwall on May 5, 2024 14:14:54 GMT 1
I just find it laughable and ridiculous that people are surprised that Warnock did Warnock things; pre season crap, just went to the pub, wanted to sign his favourite players etc etc. No fcking shit sherlock, its what he does and its what he has always done, to great success usually. If you take him on, to give some continuity and time, like we did, then you keep him on until the mission has been accomplished, in this case the mission was safety. What you don't do is act all surprised when he is behaving in an unorthodox manner and get all shirty when his ego comes to the fore. They should have let him get on with it until we were safe and left their egos at home until he'd finished. They thought they knew best and as predicted by a LOT of Town fans and anyone that knows the league really, they've been made to look the mugs that they are. Most of us knew it was a huge mistake, what we didn't know or expect was for that first mistake to be compounded by more huge mistakes. Hiring DM, keeping him too long, pathetic Jan window when we were desperate, then appointing a wholly unsuitable manager for the job in hand when it should have been given to a specialist. The fault isnt with the initial decision to keep on NW, its everything thats followed and I can only assume the people paid handsomely to make those decisions are the ones to blame. If so they need to be out of the door sharpish because the next target (rebuild and promotion) is going to be a hell of a lot harder to achieve than the one they just failed miserably at (championship survival). Warnock giving the players time off for winning games......DM & AB soon put a stop to that. I could understand the time off last season when mentality was low and games coming thick and fast and the situation we were in. They genuinely deserved it for the effort to survive. From the start of a new season etc it showed. It is clear pre season wasn't taken seriously and we were way behind on fitness levels. Having time off then doesn't help. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 5, 2024 14:27:35 GMT 1
Warnock giving the players time off for winning games......DM & AB soon put a stop to that. I could understand the time off last season when mentality was low and games coming thick and fast and the situation we were in. They genuinely deserved it for the effort to survive. From the start of a new season etc it showed. It is clear pre season wasn't taken seriously and we were way behind on fitness levels. Having time off then doesn't help. So has Warnock never taken pre-season seriously then? |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on May 5, 2024 16:36:12 GMT 1
Even when he says on his own Twitter that he's a club advisor? Don't have Twitter so not seen that. But I'm sure it's been mentioned before that he isn't on payroll etc and just acts as a middle man between fans and Kev. As a friend to Kev and out of care for us fans. He may have given himself that title a bit tongue in cheek. I could be wrong and if so, more fool me. 😁 Suggest you have all facts/info at hand before piping up next time 👍 And just to clarify without getting into the whole DC thing again, I never said he worked for the club, I said he is connected to the club(officially or not) and there are multiple facts/posts of his own to show that. |
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Post by rockwall on May 5, 2024 17:11:35 GMT 1
Don't have Twitter so not seen that. But I'm sure it's been mentioned before that he isn't on payroll etc and just acts as a middle man between fans and Kev. As a friend to Kev and out of care for us fans. He may have given himself that title a bit tongue in cheek. I could be wrong and if so, more fool me. 😁 Suggest you have all facts/info at hand before piping up next time 👍 And just to clarify without getting into the whole DC thing again, I never said he worked for the club, I said he is connected to the club(officially or not) and there are multiple facts/posts of his own to show that. Noone has ever said he isn't 'connected' as he is KN good friend, so that is a connection. You said he worked for the club. |
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Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on May 5, 2024 17:16:26 GMT 1
Suggest you have all facts/info at hand before piping up next time 👍 And just to clarify without getting into the whole DC thing again, I never said he worked for the club, I said he is connected to the club(officially or not) and there are multiple facts/posts of his own to show that. Noone has ever said he isn't 'connected' as he is KN good friend, so that is a connection. You said he worked for the club. Please show me the post in which I said this. I will happily stand corrected if you do. Connected yes, has input yes, works for the club no. Seems to me you still hold a grudge against me from a disagreement we had on here months ago in which we both apologised and apparently left it there. Seems one of us can’t. |
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Post by Tim Nice But Dim on May 5, 2024 17:34:51 GMT 1
I know a couple of things about Neil Warnock for certain because I witnessed them. 1) he delivered a promotion in the mid 90’s to the Championship. 2) he came in last season and by some miracle, managed to keep us in the Championship with games to spare. All these other stories bandied about for the last 6 months are simply hearsay. Hearsay that is started by certain posters who then go quiet when asked to share what they know. Unless one of those posters comes out with some genuine insider knowledge and not just speculation I call bullshit. Just sheep who are following the crowd with no real idea of what went on. I personally think he should have walked as a hero in summer but the long and short of it is fairly simple, had Warnock remained we would still be a championship side. Just like the anti Dean Hoyle mob and i am surprised that some of them still don't blame Steve Bruce. I wonder where all these moaners will be when we play Stevenage and Cambridge, probably anywhere but the John Smiths Stadium. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 5, 2024 17:37:29 GMT 1
I keep reading that pre-season was rubbish and Warnock wasn't taking it seriously and couldn't be arsed to stray away from his home in Cornwall, so I've gone back and had a look and tried to find out where he took some of his previous teams in pre-season.
In 1997, he took Oldham to Devon, where they played Torquay United and Exeter City.
I couldn't find anything about his pre-season schedules at Bury.
He took Sheffield United to Cornwall for pre-season in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2004. Crystal Palace in 2008. QPR in 2010 and 2011. Leeds United in 2012. Cardiff City in 2017, 2018 and 2019. Middlesbrough in 2021. Town in 2023.
He also took Middlesbrough to Plymouth in 2020.
So is it fair to say that Warnock has never taken pre-season seriously? Or, are we just clutching at straws and trying to blame the man that isn't here?
If Warnock had never done it before, then you'd have a point, but when he's done this routine for at least 25 years at least seven clubs before Town, where he won three promotions, I don't think the argument holds any weight whatsoever.
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Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on May 5, 2024 17:41:35 GMT 1
I keep reading that pre-season was rubbish and Warnock wasn't taking it seriously and couldn't be arsed to stray away from his home in Cornwall, so I've gone back and had a look and tried to find out where he took some of his previous teams in pre-season. In 1997, he took Oldham to Devon, where they played Torquay United and Exeter City. I couldn't find anything about his pre-season schedules at Bury. He took Sheffield United to Cornwall for pre-season in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2004. Crystal Palace in 2008. QPR in 2010 and 2011. Leeds United in 2012. Cardiff City in 2017, 2018 and 2019. Middlesbrough in 2021. Town in 2023. He also took Middlesbrough to Plymouth in 2020. So is it fair to say that Warnock has never taken pre-season seriously? Or, are we just clutching at straws and trying to blame the man that isn't here? If Warnock had never done it before, then you'd have a point, but when he's done this routine for at least 25 years at least seven clubs before Town, where he won three promotions, I don't think the argument holds any weight whatsoever. More Cartwright bots spreading the blame possibly. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 5, 2024 17:44:40 GMT 1
I keep reading that pre-season was rubbish and Warnock wasn't taking it seriously and couldn't be arsed to stray away from his home in Cornwall, so I've gone back and had a look and tried to find out where he took some of his previous teams in pre-season. In 1997, he took Oldham to Devon, where they played Torquay United and Exeter City. I couldn't find anything about his pre-season schedules at Bury. He took Sheffield United to Cornwall for pre-season in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2004. Crystal Palace in 2008. QPR in 2010 and 2011. Leeds United in 2012. Cardiff City in 2017, 2018 and 2019. Middlesbrough in 2021. Town in 2023. He also took Middlesbrough to Plymouth in 2020. So is it fair to say that Warnock has never taken pre-season seriously? Or, are we just clutching at straws and trying to blame the man that isn't here? If Warnock had never done it before, then you'd have a point, but when he's done this routine for at least 25 years at least seven clubs before Town, where he won three promotions, I don't think the argument holds any weight whatsoever. More Cartwright bots spreading the blame possibly. If he'd never done it before, I'd agree with the doubters. But he's literally done it for much of his managerial career, so the argument falls down and it strikes me as just having a stick to beat Warnock with. |
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