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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 15, 2024 9:57:18 GMT 1
To be honest the interview process should be straight forward. We know already who will be main players for England in the next 4 tournaments and it's still really exciting
We should not pick the best next coach on CV but the best coach who can play the formation that suits our young players - and has a history of playing that way. We need to work to a couple of systems and just drill that and become fully wedded to it for the next 6 to 8 years. Get the players drilled in a way of playing and let others worry how to cope with that
Players like Bellingham (21), Saka (22), Foden (24), Palmer (22), Rice (25), Mainoo (19) ... they will be big club players at this level for years and the attacking players are simply immense on paper but never deliver in the same way for England (and not through lack of effort). Others in the squad may step up further as well Guehi (24), Wharton (20), Gordon (23). We also should integrate the next batch of good talent as well like Lewis (20), Branthwaite (22), Colwill (21), Miley (18), Elliot (21)
Others may come again that are out of form like Sancho
That's not throwing out World Class players like Stones and Kane but start a mid term plan based on this outstanding batch of talent. Try as best to create a "club" spirit and way of playing
You need to plan to win these tournaments (look at Spain in 2008 to 2014 or France in the late 90's early 00s) and England should start doing that now - it's alarming we were experimenting with TAA in midfield or Tripper at left back in the middle of a tournament!
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 15, 2024 10:00:44 GMT 1
We are just not as good as the media make us out to be. Too many players over hyped and shoehorned in and then left on when clearly out of their depth. Couple that with God awful tactics. When will we learn. Everybody we played in this tournament left more players further up the pitch than we ever did in open play??? The experts then could not quite work out why we could not produce more breaks on turnover???š¤ It was probably the biggest give away that the main tactics were not attack based. |
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 10:05:59 GMT 1
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Post by lossiemouthtownfan on Jul 15, 2024 10:05:59 GMT 1
I was a bit mystified as to why we didn't seize the iniative after the equaliser and go on and win the game? I don't think Spain let us. They kept the ball, just passing between themselves, and took away any imputus we had just gained. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jul 15, 2024 10:12:52 GMT 1
Hindsight is wonderful but the problem is in a fair few instances it was not needed. Yesterday evening Kane should not have started never mind be given 60 minutes. Toney coming on with 2 minutes to go , a masterpiece of a move. ITV were praising Southgate for taking Kane off. My dog could have seen he was a waste of space and time, in fact has been throughout the tournement. Not just him alone others were way below par, Foden and Bellingham to name just two. I just hope we have an alternative in place come the World Cup. I think weāre too sentimental in this country. Needed a Jimmy Greaves type decision. But Kane got the nod because he was captain, not on form. Need to be a bit more ruthless really. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 15, 2024 10:36:58 GMT 1
Hindsight is wonderful but the problem is in a fair few instances it was not needed. Yesterday evening Kane should not have started never mind be given 60 minutes. Toney coming on with 2 minutes to go , a masterpiece of a move. ITV were praising Southgate for taking Kane off. My dog could have seen he was a waste of space and time, in fact has been throughout the tournement. Not just him alone others were way below par, Foden and Bellingham to name just two. I just hope we have an alternative in place come the World Cup. I think weāre too sentimental in this country. Needed a Jimmy Greaves type decision. But Kane got the nod because he was captain, not on form. Need to be a bit more ruthless really. Agree with this - it should simply be the best player in each position at that time and not just the big name or players who have done it before If we were playing 4-2-3-1 Left wing should have been Gordon - who was player of the tournament in the U21s last year (I would have taken Grealish over Bowen as the other LW option) Foden should have been fighting Bellingham for the number 10 shirt - both had average tournaments so maybe the fear of being left out could have helped get the best out of one of them? RW would have been Saka for me with Palmer putting him under real pressure Kane needed dropping as well I agree. I don't think the way he played suited the system and we need someone staying in the box offering a goal threat which Kane never did and was popping up all over the pitch. It's no good having a sole striker if he's playing in midfield most of the time! |
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jul 15, 2024 10:39:13 GMT 1
We are just not as good as the media make us out to be. Too many players over hyped and shoehorned in and then left on when clearly out of their depth. Couple that with God awful tactics. When will we learn. Disagree with that, we definitely do have the right quality players, what we need is a coach to allow them to express themselves & one who can proactively change tactics during the game. The Spanish manager took the piss out of Southgate's in game tactics. While not being anywhere near their best in this tournament, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Rice are all world class players in their positions & Kane has been up until now. For all the good Southgate had done in shaping them into a cohesive squad, his defensive mindset & lack of tactical know-how has now cost us in several tournaments. The reason we beat all but the top tier of teams is down to players' individual abilities but when we play the top notch teams of similar quality, we lose because Southgate can't coach. |
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 10:59:58 GMT 1
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Post by Torquayterrier on Jul 15, 2024 10:59:58 GMT 1
Klopp would be an inspired choice but not sure if he'd go for it or not.
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Post by Mastercracker on Jul 15, 2024 11:00:15 GMT 1
As Guy Mowbray said during his commentary "England are a moments team" unfortunately there wasn't another moment in them. Don't know where we go from here manager wise if we want to go with an English manager. Donāt like the bloke but Iād be chucking a wedge at Klopp, need someone who is an elite level tactician and who someone who knows how to win. If itās another FA yes man then expect nothing different next time around. We already chuck a wedge at Southgate, Ā£5m a year, the highest paid manager at the tournament. |
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Post by space hardware on Jul 15, 2024 11:32:02 GMT 1
We are just not as good as the media make us out to be. Too many players over hyped and shoehorned in and then left on when clearly out of their depth. Couple that with God awful tactics. When will we learn. Disagree with that, we definitely do have the right quality players, what we need is a coach to allow them to express themselves & one who can proactively change tactics during the game. The Spanish manager took the piss out of Southgate's in game tactics. While not being anywhere near their best in this tournament, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Rice are all world class players in their positions & Kane has been up until now. For all the good Southgate had done in shaping them into a cohesive squad, his defensive mindset & lack of tactical know-how has now cost us in several tournaments. The reason we beat all but the top tier of teams is down to players' individual abilities but when we play the top notch teams of similar quality, we lose because Southgate can't coach. Rice had a very poor tournament, in my opinion. Bellingham did ok in parts but didn't impose himself the way we were led to believe he would. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2024 11:47:48 GMT 1
I was a bit mystified as to why we didn't seize the iniative after the equaliser and go on and win the game? I don't think Spain let us. They kept the ball, just passing between themselves, and took away any imputus we had just gained. Yep Spain were simply better than us,they carried on taking the initiative.Spain were looking like making 2-0 before we scored |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Jul 15, 2024 12:45:52 GMT 1
Southgate is surely going to go - can the FA make the right appointment to replace him? I'm sceptical.
The goal now is surely to be winning a tournament in the career of Bellingham/Foden/Palmer etc.
To lead the team need a winner that can set a press & an attacking team, leads well, picks the right players and can adapt in game and between games as the challenge arises.
We've got a great platform, have started to beat big teams in knockout games and have the players to play progressive modern football.
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 12:49:32 GMT 1
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Post by kimbo999 on Jul 15, 2024 12:49:32 GMT 1
We are just not as good as the media make us out to be. Too many players over hyped and shoehorned in and then left on when clearly out of their depth. Couple that with God awful tactics. When will we learn. Disagree with that, we definitely do have the right quality players, what we need is a coach to allow them to express themselves & one who can proactively change tactics during the game. The Spanish manager took the piss out of Southgate's in game tactics. While not being anywhere near their best in this tournament, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Rice are all world class players in their positions & Kane has been up until now. For all the good Southgate had done in shaping them into a cohesive squad, his defensive mindset & lack of tactical know-how has now cost us in several tournaments. The reason we beat all but the top tier of teams is down to players' individual abilities but when we play the top notch teams of similar quality, we lose because Southgate can't coach. You have fallen into the same trap Saka, rice no where near world class Foden and Bellingham could get to that level but not there yet. Agree with you re southgate and his tactics But some of the players haven't been able to pass the ball, take it in tight spaces etc that's not southgate, that's either ability or weak mentality. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 15, 2024 13:04:17 GMT 1
Hindsight is wonderful but the problem is in a fair few instances it was not needed. Yesterday evening Kane should not have started never mind be given 60 minutes. Toney coming on with 2 minutes to go , a masterpiece of a move. ITV were praising Southgate for taking Kane off. My dog could have seen he was a waste of space and time, in fact has been throughout the tournement. Not just him alone others were way below par, Foden and Bellingham to name just two. I just hope we have an alternative in place come the World Cup. I think weāre too sentimental in this country. Needed a Jimmy Greaves type decision. But Kane got the nod because he was captain, not on form. Need to be a bit more ruthless really. A big criticism of Southgate is thats hes too loyal and it was a mistake that stood out with Kane all the way through these finals. Kanes a great player and has been excellent for England for many years, but he was poor in each of the 6 games leading up to yesterday. Any other player gets dropped but because hes Kane and the captain Southgate stuck with him for him to put in a 7th poor performance. Hes just not on form at all in any aspect of his play. You can pretty much guarantee if Maguire had been fit , Guehi wouldn't have played a minute in these finals and he was arguably our best player, certainly right up there. It's the sort of change that is forced on Southgate rather than him having the warewithall to make. Ramsay won something but Southgate, with 2 finals, 1 semi-final and 1 quarter final out of his 4 tournaments is miles ahead of any other England manager in terms of what positions hes get us to. But he just lacks that courage to get us over the line, always being too conservative and more worried about losing than excited about winning. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 15, 2024 13:12:12 GMT 1
Disagree with that, we definitely do have the right quality players, what we need is a coach to allow them to express themselves & one who can proactively change tactics during the game. The Spanish manager took the piss out of Southgate's in game tactics. While not being anywhere near their best in this tournament, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Rice are all world class players in their positions & Kane has been up until now. For all the good Southgate had done in shaping them into a cohesive squad, his defensive mindset & lack of tactical know-how has now cost us in several tournaments. The reason we beat all but the top tier of teams is down to players' individual abilities but when we play the top notch teams of similar quality, we lose because Southgate can't coach. You have fallen into the same trap Saka, rice no where near world class Foden and Bellingham could get to that level but not there yet. Agree with you re southgate and his tactics But some of the players haven't been able to pass the ball, take it in tight spaces etc that's not southgate, that's either ability or weak mentality. You think Bellingham 'might' get to be world class? You joking? Did you see what he did for Real Madrid this season? hes one of the best players in the world right now. Like top 2 or 3, and there isnt a single team that he wouldn't get in. he hasnt been that player in these finals. A few games too many after such a phenomenal season and carrying the weight of Spanish and European champions on his young shoulders. Messi often looked a pale version of himself in finals for Argentine ..its what can happen. depends on the definition of world class, but England have a few who would fall into that bracket if youre thinking of the elite 100 players in the world right now. If youre thinking of the worlds best XI then Bellingham gets in that. |
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Post by Sio on Jul 15, 2024 13:21:54 GMT 1
Foden has won the Premier League almost every year of his professional career - including a Treble. Bellingham is / was in the running for Ballon D'Or. Kane is pretty much league top scorer - and occasionally international - every year. List goes on.
There is no way this group should be underperforming to the extent they have done, final or not, whether as individuals or as a team. Kane, Bellingham and Foden aren't suddenly bad enough to be significantly eclipsed by a 16-year-old (tremendous talent, no doubt).
I can't believe the extent to which people are looking for scapegoats among the squad when this almost exclusively comes onto the management. Wanting Southgate to stay on is verging on insanity.
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jul 15, 2024 13:28:37 GMT 1
Disagree with that, we definitely do have the right quality players, what we need is a coach to allow them to express themselves & one who can proactively change tactics during the game. The Spanish manager took the piss out of Southgate's in game tactics. While not being anywhere near their best in this tournament, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Rice are all world class players in their positions & Kane has been up until now. For all the good Southgate had done in shaping them into a cohesive squad, his defensive mindset & lack of tactical know-how has now cost us in several tournaments. The reason we beat all but the top tier of teams is down to players' individual abilities but when we play the top notch teams of similar quality, we lose because Southgate can't coach. You have fallen into the same trap Saka, rice no where near world class Foden and Bellingham could get to that level but not there yet. Agree with you re southgate and his tactics But some of the players haven't been able to pass the ball, take it in tight spaces etc that's not southgate, that's either ability or weak mentality. Foden has just been voted the Premier League's best player - to win that you have to be world class. Bellingham has gone one better, last year he was voted best player in La Ligue & the year before that the best in the Bundesliga. Saka has been a great player in the Premier League the last couple of years & the only person I can think of better in his position than Rice is Rodri so don't try & say we don't have the players, of course we do. |
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bogart
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Post by bogart on Jul 15, 2024 13:38:02 GMT 1
Poor game in which Spain were average and we were below average, hence a one goal difference. Spain did spend longer in it actively trying to win so fair enough. Another opportunity spurned on the altar of trying to do just enough for just long enough. We even failed to take it on after equalising and them looking quite vunerable. 6 insipid performances with the odd bit of unscripted inspiration ends up as another tournament where we under achieve just enough in one game to lose. I was a bit mystified as to why we didn't seize the iniative after the equaliser and go on and win the game? Why be mystified. Southgate was in charge! |
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 13:48:55 GMT 1
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Post by Convictatthemac on Jul 15, 2024 13:48:55 GMT 1
Disagree with that, we definitely do have the right quality players, what we need is a coach to allow them to express themselves & one who can proactively change tactics during the game. The Spanish manager took the piss out of Southgate's in game tactics. While not being anywhere near their best in this tournament, Bellingham, Foden, Saka, Rice are all world class players in their positions & Kane has been up until now. For all the good Southgate had done in shaping them into a cohesive squad, his defensive mindset & lack of tactical know-how has now cost us in several tournaments. The reason we beat all but the top tier of teams is down to players' individual abilities but when we play the top notch teams of similar quality, we lose because Southgate can't coach. You have fallen into the same trap Saka, rice no where near world class Foden and Bellingham could get to that level but not there yet. Agree with you re southgate and his tactics But some of the players haven't been able to pass the ball, take it in tight spaces etc that's not southgate, that's either ability or weak mentality. š Saka not world class. |
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 14:00:09 GMT 1
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Post by kimbo999 on Jul 15, 2024 14:00:09 GMT 1
You have fallen into the same trap Saka, rice no where near world class Foden and Bellingham could get to that level but not there yet. Agree with you re southgate and his tactics But some of the players haven't been able to pass the ball, take it in tight spaces etc that's not southgate, that's either ability or weak mentality. š Saka not world class. He really isn't A good player when he's on it yes, not world class. |
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 14:04:37 GMT 1
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Post by kimbo999 on Jul 15, 2024 14:04:37 GMT 1
You have fallen into the same trap Saka, rice no where near world class Foden and Bellingham could get to that level but not there yet. Agree with you re southgate and his tactics But some of the players haven't been able to pass the ball, take it in tight spaces etc that's not southgate, that's either ability or weak mentality. You think Bellingham 'might' get to be world class? You joking? Did you see what he did for Real Madrid this season? hes one of the best players in the world right now. Like top 2 or 3, and there isnt a single team that he wouldn't get in. he hasnt been that player in these finals. A few games too many after such a phenomenal season and carrying the weight of Spanish and European champions on his young shoulders. Messi often looked a pale version of himself in finals for Argentine ..its what can happen. depends on the definition of world class, but England have a few who would fall into that bracket if youre thinking of the elite 100 players in the world right now. If youre thinking of the worlds best XI then Bellingham gets in that. I'm not saying Bellingham isn't a very good player he is and by his standards had a poor tournament. Just think world class you have to do it at the highest levels consistently he is well on the way as you say had 2 great seasons and hopefully will have more. |
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Post by SN0W on Jul 15, 2024 14:16:24 GMT 1
Just seen their reception as they got off the plane: a bloke with a high-vis vest.
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 14:16:58 GMT 1
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Post by rougeboy31 on Jul 15, 2024 14:16:58 GMT 1
You think Bellingham 'might' get to be world class? You joking? Did you see what he did for Real Madrid this season? hes one of the best players in the world right now. Like top 2 or 3, and there isnt a single team that he wouldn't get in. he hasnt been that player in these finals. A few games too many after such a phenomenal season and carrying the weight of Spanish and European champions on his young shoulders. Messi often looked a pale version of himself in finals for Argentine ..its what can happen. depends on the definition of world class, but England have a few who would fall into that bracket if youre thinking of the elite 100 players in the world right now. If youre thinking of the worlds best XI then Bellingham gets in that. I'm not saying Bellingham isn't a very good player he is and by his standards had a poor tournament. Just think world class you have to do it at the highest levels consistently he is well on the way as you say had 2 great seasons and hopefully will have more. Problem with Bellingham is that he thinks heās world class. He portrays a humble character in interviews but his on pitch behaviour is definitely not. |
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Post by Convictatthemac on Jul 15, 2024 14:26:43 GMT 1
š Saka not world class. He really isn't A good player when he's on it yes, not world class. Apart from Salah, thereās no other RW in the top 5 leagues producing the numbers Saka is. What more do you want to be classed as āworld classā? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 15, 2024 14:27:34 GMT 1
You think Bellingham 'might' get to be world class? You joking? Did you see what he did for Real Madrid this season? hes one of the best players in the world right now. Like top 2 or 3, and there isnt a single team that he wouldn't get in. he hasnt been that player in these finals. A few games too many after such a phenomenal season and carrying the weight of Spanish and European champions on his young shoulders. Messi often looked a pale version of himself in finals for Argentine ..its what can happen. depends on the definition of world class, but England have a few who would fall into that bracket if youre thinking of the elite 100 players in the world right now. If youre thinking of the worlds best XI then Bellingham gets in that. I'm not saying Bellingham isn't a very good player he is and by his standards had a poor tournament. Just think world class you have to do it at the highest levels consistently he is well on the way as you say had 2 great seasons and hopefully will have more. But that means no young player can ever be described as world class..they only can when theyve done it for quite a few seasons. I dont think we realise just how good Bellingham is in this country because he isnt playing here week in week out. Not only was he Reals best player as they won the league and CL, but he was a huge leader on the pitch too even at his young age. You read interviews from Reals players and they cant believe the impact hes had, on and off the pitch.,,and hes basically just carried that on from what he was doing at Dortmund. He's a bit of phenomenon ..a genuine superstar player. the odd moment in each of the games, but we didnt really see that in these finals. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 15, 2024 14:36:27 GMT 1
I'm not saying Bellingham isn't a very good player he is and by his standards had a poor tournament. Just think world class you have to do it at the highest levels consistently he is well on the way as you say had 2 great seasons and hopefully will have more. But that means no young player can ever be described as world class..they only can when theyve done it for quite a few seasons. I dont think we realise just how good Bellingham is in this country because he isnt playing here week in week out. Not only was he Reals best player as they won the league and CL, but he was a huge leader on the pitch too even at his young age. You read interviews from Reals players and they cant believe the impact hes had, on and off the pitch.,,and hes basically just carried that on from what he was doing at Dortmund. He's a bit of phenomenon ..a genuine superstar player. the odd moment in each of the games, but we didnt really see that in these finals. Bellingham, right player in the wrong team, playing the wrong way. Foden likewise. Add in kane the invisible man and thats why we looked almost non existent as an attacking force. It was very sporadic with little or no periods of pressure. The body language a lot of the time kind of proved players were playing under some sufferance, no matter what they said to the press. |
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Post by townarentbest on Jul 15, 2024 15:09:38 GMT 1
Southgate will be at the next World Cup, you read it here first.
NOT with the England team.
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Post by aloadofdbullocks on Jul 15, 2024 15:12:30 GMT 1
Southgate will be at the next World Cup, you read it here first. NOT with the England team. Hopefully managing Spain and not as a studio expert! š |
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Euro 2024
Jul 15, 2024 15:12:41 GMT 1
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Post by Mav on Jul 15, 2024 15:12:41 GMT 1
I'm not saying Bellingham isn't a very good player he is and by his standards had a poor tournament. Just think world class you have to do it at the highest levels consistently he is well on the way as you say had 2 great seasons and hopefully will have more. Problem with Bellingham is that he thinks heās world class. He portrays a humble character in interviews but his on pitch behaviour is definitely not. Thought I was the only one who has been seeing that! |
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iangreaves
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Post by iangreaves on Jul 15, 2024 15:47:54 GMT 1
I was a bit mystified as to why we didn't seize the iniative after the equaliser and go on and win the game? Why be mystified. Southgate was in charge! We've been doing it all tournament. Very frustrating. The difference between us and Spain is we are playing with fear. Too afraid to take a chance and play forward and quickly. That has to be down to the manager because these same players show they can do it for their clubs. |
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goodbet
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Post by goodbet on Jul 15, 2024 15:49:14 GMT 1
Donāt like the bloke but Iād be chucking a wedge at Klopp, need someone who is an elite level tactician and who someone who knows how to win. If itās another FA yes man then expect nothing different next time around. We already chuck a wedge at Southgate, Ā£5m a year, the highest paid manager at the tournament. That is incredible for a manager with no real ability and has done nothing before he got the job. |
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