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Post by King Neil on Apr 11, 2024 11:25:42 GMT 1
I'm amazed it's still in our own hands with 4 games left I would be more confident of survival if Jon Worthington was taking the final 4 games Ab has zero in-game management skills whatsoever Neither does Jon Worthington. That can't really be said with the amount of games he took...he won a couple and we had some fight.. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 11:28:15 GMT 1
If Worthington had some in-game management skills, we'd be on 46 points and have less to worry about. The players were playing for Worthington, but the players do that for any caretaker manager. . It was a very difficult decision to make, bringing in a permanent manager when we did or leaving him in. I would have been happy with Worthington until the end of the season, but I also believed AB would have the ability to get us safe too. But that would have ramped up the pressure, as "until the end of the season" is basically giving him the job full-time. Worthington, for those four games in February, had no pressure on him whatsoever. And even then, we lost two of them, people seem to pretend we didn't lose them! Worthington didn't want it, he said he didn't want it, he'd already seen his mate chucked under the bus last year. Even if he DID get the job, we would have still been in the same position, possibly even worse, because other teams would have quickly worked out how to play against us as his sole tactic was just to go hell for leather at everyone, and the players would have been absolutely knackered. Every time a manager comes in and doesn't do well, the fans hark back to the caretaker manager with rose-tinted glasses and start saying, "we should have kept him in charge". Gerry Murphy, Mark Lillis, Chicho Pelach and Jon Worthington, the only thing that changes is the name. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 11:28:46 GMT 1
Neither does Jon Worthington. ...he won a couple and we had some fight.. I presume you missed the game where he threw away a 2-0 lead in 45 minutes, conceding five goals in the process. |
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Post by waggers on Apr 11, 2024 11:53:30 GMT 1
That can't really be said with the amount of games he took...he won a couple and we had some fight.. I presume you missed the game where he threw away a 2-0 lead in 45 minutes, conceding five goals in the process. It was Southampton away when they went on a rampage, and we did fight back to 2-3 didn't we? A Lees own goal made it 3-3. Either way I take your point, I'm not saying it was all roses with Worthington but the team seemed to have a lot more fight. As you say he didn't want the gig, maybe didn't even want it until the end of the season. |
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Post by King Neil on Apr 11, 2024 12:13:57 GMT 1
That can't really be said with the amount of games he took...he won a couple and we had some fight.. I presume you missed the game where he threw away a 2-0 lead in 45 minutes, conceding five goals in the process. The saints were in their best form of the season at that point so no surprise We would be ok under Ab if games finished at half time...its just the same second half 10 minute  under him game after game He's a nice fella but he really has stepped into the unknown...Maybe if we stay up he will be better prepared and more adapted to the Championship next season...but I will maintain that 13 games in charge should have been enough for a decent manager to keep us up with us not even being in the bottom 3 when he took over |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 12:24:42 GMT 1
I presume you missed the game where he threw away a 2-0 lead in 45 minutes, conceding five goals in the process. The saints were in their best form of the season at that point so no surprise We would be ok under Ab if games finished at half time...its just the same second half 10 minute under him game after gameHe's a nice fella but he really has stepped into the unknown...Maybe if we stay up he will be better prepared and more adapted to the Championship next season...but I will maintain that 13 games in charge should have been enough for a decent manager to keep us up with us not even being in the bottom 3 when he took over This also happened under Worthington and Moore, so it's hardly just Breitenreiter is it? |
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Post by King Neil on Apr 11, 2024 12:29:15 GMT 1
The saints were in their best form of the season at that point so no surprise We would be ok under Ab if games finished at half time...its just the same second half 10 minute under him game after gameHe's a nice fella but he really has stepped into the unknown...Maybe if we stay up he will be better prepared and more adapted to the Championship next season...but I will maintain that 13 games in charge should have been enough for a decent manager to keep us up with us not even being in the bottom 3 when he took over This also happened under Worthington and Moore, so it's hardly just Breitenreiter is it? OK..So its half time at Ashton Gate and we are 1-0 up What do we do next? |
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Post by waggers on Apr 11, 2024 12:30:40 GMT 1
The saints were in their best form of the season at that point so no surprise We would be ok under Ab if games finished at half time...its just the same second half 10 minute under him game after gameHe's a nice fella but he really has stepped into the unknown...Maybe if we stay up he will be better prepared and more adapted to the Championship next season...but I will maintain that 13 games in charge should have been enough for a decent manager to keep us up with us not even being in the bottom 3 when he took over This also happened under Worthington and Moore, so it's hardly just Breitenreiter is it? If you've got the stats on the times of 2nd half goals under Worthington Vs Moore Vs AB I'll take your word for it. I myself was mainly referring to the performance and effort level under Worthington Vs the others. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 12:31:01 GMT 1
This also happened under Worthington and Moore, so it's hardly just Breitenreiter is it? OK..So its half time at Ashton Gate and we are 1-0 up What do we do next? You tell me. You've got all the answers. |
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Post by King Neil on Apr 11, 2024 12:33:17 GMT 1
OK..So its half time at Ashton Gate and we are 1-0 up What do we do next? You tell me. You've got all the answers. I have a personal opinion that's all |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 12:38:11 GMT 1
This also happened under Worthington and Moore, so it's hardly just Breitenreiter is it? If you've got the stats on the times of 2nd half goals under Worthington Vs Moore Vs AB I'll take your word for it. I myself was mainly referring to the performance and effort level under Worthington Vs the others. Under Warnock: Conceded in the 48th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 52nd min against West Brom. Under Moore: Conceded in the 55th min against Cardiff. Conceded in the 46th min against Bristol City. Conceded in the 57th min against Millwall. Conceded in the 47th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 54th min against Middlesbrough. Conceded in the 47th min against Leicester. Under Worthington: Conceded in the 49th and 50th min against Southampton. Under Breitenreiter: Conceded in the 55th min against Watford. Conceded in the 51st min against West Brom. Conceded in the 50th min against Stoke. Conceded in the 53rd min against Preston. |
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Post by King Neil on Apr 11, 2024 12:44:24 GMT 1
Must be psychological now then
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Post by turbo2 on Apr 11, 2024 12:47:18 GMT 1
If you've got the stats on the times of 2nd half goals under Worthington Vs Moore Vs AB I'll take your word for it. I myself was mainly referring to the performance and effort level under Worthington Vs the others. Under Warnock: Conceded in the 48th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 52nd min against West Brom. Under Moore: Conceded in the 55th min against Cardiff. Conceded in the 46th min against Bristol City. Conceded in the 57th min against Millwall. Conceded in the 47th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 54th min against Middlesbrough. Conceded in the 47th min against Leicester. Under Worthington: Conceded in the 49th and 50th min against Southampton. Under Breitenreiter: Conceded in the 55th min against Watford. Conceded in the 51st min against West Brom. Conceded in the 50th min against Stoke. Conceded in the 53rd min against Preston. Lets keep it tight for 15 mins, get their fans on their backs. Oooooooops |
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Post by richhtfc on Apr 11, 2024 12:55:00 GMT 1
If you've got the stats on the times of 2nd half goals under Worthington Vs Moore Vs AB I'll take your word for it. I myself was mainly referring to the performance and effort level under Worthington Vs the others. Under Warnock: Conceded in the 48th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 52nd min against West Brom. Under Moore: Conceded in the 55th min against Cardiff. Conceded in the 46th min against Bristol City. Conceded in the 57th min against Millwall. Conceded in the 47th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 54th min against Middlesbrough. Conceded in the 47th min against Leicester. Under Worthington: Conceded in the 49th and 50th min against Southampton. Under Breitenreiter: Conceded in the 55th min against Watford. Conceded in the 51st min against West Brom. Conceded in the 50th min against Stoke. Conceded in the 53rd min against Preston. Basically opposition manager counters our formation at half time and we can’t anticipate the change or cope with it. |
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Post by waggers on Apr 11, 2024 13:15:15 GMT 1
If you've got the stats on the times of 2nd half goals under Worthington Vs Moore Vs AB I'll take your word for it. I myself was mainly referring to the performance and effort level under Worthington Vs the others. Under Warnock: Conceded in the 48th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 52nd min against West Brom. Under Moore: Conceded in the 55th min against Cardiff. Conceded in the 46th min against Bristol City. Conceded in the 57th min against Millwall. Conceded in the 47th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 54th min against Middlesbrough. Conceded in the 47th min against Leicester. Under Worthington: Conceded in the 49th and 50th min against Southampton. Under Breitenreiter: Conceded in the 55th min against Watford. Conceded in the 51st min against West Brom. Conceded in the 50th min against Stoke. Conceded in the 53rd min against Preston. Your stats for Worthington are based off 1 match though, by your post I thought you meant it happened in multiple matches. You can't really get proper data from isolating one match against a team up near the top of the league who are coming out all attack in the 2nd half. Either way I'll leave it at that, I understand your point. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 13:19:57 GMT 1
Under Warnock: Conceded in the 48th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 52nd min against West Brom. Under Moore: Conceded in the 55th min against Cardiff. Conceded in the 46th min against Bristol City. Conceded in the 57th min against Millwall. Conceded in the 47th min against Norwich. Conceded in the 54th min against Middlesbrough. Conceded in the 47th min against Leicester. Under Worthington: Conceded in the 49th and 50th min against Southampton. Under Breitenreiter: Conceded in the 55th min against Watford. Conceded in the 51st min against West Brom. Conceded in the 50th min against Stoke. Conceded in the 53rd min against Preston. Your stats for Worthington are based off 1 match though, by your post I thought you meant it happened in multiple matches. You can't really get proper data from isolating one match. Either way I'll leave it at that, I understand your point. How have I isolated one match? I've given you the stats from all season. Like it or not, Worthington took charge of a second half collapse just the same as Warnock, Moore and Breitenreiter did. As all four managers who have taken charge this season have done it, which suggests that it's not down to the managers. |
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Post by Orinoco on Apr 11, 2024 13:44:06 GMT 1
I still think we will avoid the "BIG R", we have had so many get out of jail cards with other results going our way as yesterday's proved, how many times did QPR fail to overtake us into 21st place? I've certainly lost count!!.
Us and the massive will survive and either Blackburn, Plymouth or Brum will make the drop, it's gonna be a nervy end but envisage us getting a win against Brum, draw against the Swans along with losses at Bristol and Ipswich, the 2 auto promotion places seem like they are also going down to the wire.
Hopefully 47 pts will be enough to keep us up, then a massive clear out of the dross of a squad we have amassed and some at the top hopefully, Need the ship steadying it will be a big season for the new regime and hopefully they have learned a lot of lessons from their inaugural season, a lot of supporters are on the verge of saying sod it enough is enough, no doubt divisional status and proposed price increases of season tickets will have a big say, we are no better off than last season in what was supposed to be consolidating season, in the end it has turned into 1 of the longest, most depressing season i have witnessed since starting to proper watch Town in the amazing 79/80 season and there have been some crap ones!!.
Really hope Kevin Nagle succeeds at the club but he needs to walk before I can run and hopefully take a long look at this season and all the major cock ups that have been made.
Town fans are a patient bunch,don't ask for a lot, just want a well run club with 100% effort from all involved with the club, let's hope he hasn't lost too many supporters this season he can't call anyone who says sod it and walks away. We should not be celebrating escaping relegation like we've just been promoted virtually every season.
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Post by waggers on Apr 11, 2024 13:57:07 GMT 1
Your stats for Worthington are based off 1 match though, by your post I thought you meant it happened in multiple matches. You can't really get proper data from isolating one match. Either way I'll leave it at that, I understand your point. How have I isolated one match? I've given you the stats from all season. Like it or not, Worthington took charge of a second half collapse just the same as Warnock, Moore and Breitenreiter did. As all four managers who have taken charge this season have done it, which suggests that it's not down to the managers. What do you mean 'how have I isolated one match'? Your proof that Worthington's team had the same issue as all the other managers is based off one match. 2 goals yes, in 1 match. Against a very good side, away from home. |
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Post by King Neil on Apr 11, 2024 14:00:59 GMT 1
I still think we will avoid the "BIG R", we have had so many get out of jail cards with other results going our way as yesterday's proved, how many times did QPR fail to overtake us into 21st place? I've certainly lost count!!. Us and the massive will survive and either Blackburn, Plymouth or Brum will make the drop, it's gonna be a nervy end but envisage us getting a win against Brum, draw against the Swans along with losses at Bristol and Ipswich, the 2 auto promotion places seem like they are also going down to the wire. Hopefully 47 pts will be enough to keep us up, then a massive clear out of the dross of a squad we have amassed and some at the top hopefully, Need the ship steadying it will be a big season for the new regime and hopefully they have learned a lot of lessons from their inaugural season, a lot of supporters are on the verge of saying sod it enough is enough, no doubt divisional status and proposed price increases of season tickets will have a big say, we are no better off than last season in what was supposed to be consolidating season, in the end it has turned into 1 of the longest, most depressing season i have witnessed since starting to proper watch Town in the amazing 79/80 season and there have been some crap ones!!. Really hope Kevin Nagle succeeds at the club but he needs to walk before I can run and hopefully take a long look at this season and all the major cock ups that have been made. Town fans are a patient bunch,don't ask for a lot, just want a well run club with 100% effort from all involved with the club, let's hope he hasn't lost too many supporters this season he can't call anyone who says sod it and walks away. We should not be celebrating escaping relegation like we've just been promoted virtually every season. Not sure about 47 I was thinking 49 at least and we may still go down on goal difference..and 50 to be sure We need to avoid any more stuffings now as goal difference could play a part...currently 8 better than Wednesday,but a stuffing for us Saturday and a win for them it could be getting close |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 14:09:52 GMT 1
How have I isolated one match? I've given you the stats from all season. Like it or not, Worthington took charge of a second half collapse just the same as Warnock, Moore and Breitenreiter did. As all four managers who have taken charge this season have done it, which suggests that it's not down to the managers. What do you mean 'how have I isolated one match'? Your proof that Worthington's team had the same issue as all the other managers is based off one match. 2 goals yes, in 1 match. Against a very good side, away from home. Where we were 2-0 up. |
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Post by waggers on Apr 11, 2024 14:24:45 GMT 1
What do you mean 'how have I isolated one match'? Your proof that Worthington's team had the same issue as all the other managers is based off one match. 2 goals yes, in 1 match. Against a very good side, away from home. Where we were 2-0 up. Yes, but by listing the nunber of times we've lost from a winning position under all the other managers, you were making the claim that the same happened under Worthington. It happened once away from home against a very good side. Your insinuation that it was the same under Worthington as it was under Moore and AB isn’t properly supported by the numbers. |
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Post by mosher on Apr 11, 2024 14:25:53 GMT 1
Neither does Jon Worthington. That can't really be said with the amount of games he took...he won a couple and we had some fight.. Really? That collapse against Southampton was 100% proof of Worthy's absence of game management. Love Worthy (one of my favourite players from his era) but those calling for him to be kept on as manager til the end of the season were (almost) as bad as those calling for Pelach to get the job permanently. As myself (and others) have said, there's no way the players could have kept up the "all throttle no brake" football for the rest of the season; they're blowing out their arses after half hour most of them. Whether that's an indictment of the players themselves or the pre-season or King Colin's training methods or just an indication of the speed of modern football I don't know, but there's no way they'd have kept it up and (I think) we'd have had MORE collapses like Tuesday and possibly less points on the board. His lack of game management was plain to see; the only instruction he gave the players (which he's as much as admitted) was to go out and play. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 14:39:56 GMT 1
Yes, but by listing the nunber of times we've lost from a winning position under all the other managers, you were making the claim that the same happened under Worthington. It happened once away from home against a very good side. Your insinuation that it was the same under Worthington as it was under Moore and AB isn’t properly supported by the numbers. Okay. The claim had nothing to do with losing positions, it was how many goals we'd conceded just after half-time. If it makes you feel better, I'll just pretend that Worthington didn't lose any games or concede any goals, as that's what some on here seem to be doing anyway. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 14:40:44 GMT 1
That can't really be said with the amount of games he took...he won a couple and we had some fight.. Really? That collapse against Southampton was 100% proof of Worthy's absence of game management. Love Worthy (one of my favourite players from his era) but those calling for him to be kept on as manager til the end of the season were (almost) as bad as those calling for Pelach to get the job permanently. As myself (and others) have said, there's no way the players could have kept up the "all throttle no brake" football for the rest of the season; they're blowing out their arses after half hour most of them. Whether that's an indictment of the players themselves or the pre-season or King Colin's training methods or just an indication of the speed of modern football I don't know, but there's no way they'd have kept it up and (I think) we'd have had MORE collapses like Tuesday and possibly less points on the board. His lack of game management was plain to see; the only instruction he gave the players (which he's as much as admitted) was to go out and play. We should give him the job next season and if he's as good as everyone says he is, we'll get promoted. Win win. |
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Post by Orinoco on Apr 11, 2024 14:41:22 GMT 1
I still think we will avoid the "BIG R", we have had so many get out of jail cards with other results going our way as yesterday's proved, how many times did QPR fail to overtake us into 21st place? I've certainly lost count!!. Us and the massive will survive and either Blackburn, Plymouth or Brum will make the drop, it's gonna be a nervy end but envisage us getting a win against Brum, draw against the Swans along with losses at Bristol and Ipswich, the 2 auto promotion places seem like they are also going down to the wire. Hopefully 47 pts will be enough to keep us up, then a massive clear out of the dross of a squad we have amassed and some at the top hopefully, Need the ship steadying it will be a big season for the new regime and hopefully they have learned a lot of lessons from their inaugural season, a lot of supporters are on the verge of saying sod it enough is enough, no doubt divisional status and proposed price increases of season tickets will have a big say, we are no better off than last season in what was supposed to be consolidating season, in the end it has turned into 1 of the longest, most depressing season i have witnessed since starting to proper watch Town in the amazing 79/80 season and there have been some crap ones!!. Really hope Kevin Nagle succeeds at the club but he needs to walk before I can run and hopefully take a long look at this season and all the major cock ups that have been made. Town fans are a patient bunch,don't ask for a lot, just want a well run club with 100% effort from all involved with the club, let's hope he hasn't lost too many supporters this season he can't call anyone who says sod it and walks away. We should not be celebrating escaping relegation like we've just been promoted virtually every season. Not sure about 47 I was thinking 49 at least and we may still go down on goal difference..and 50 to be sure We need to avoid any more stuffings now as goal difference could play a part...currently 8 better than Wednesday,but a stuffing for us Saturday and a win for them it could be getting close The main concern is Brum play us and Rotherham consecutively, they will see that as their escape route same as we do, I honestly cant see this little group fighting the drop picking up many points in remaining 4 games. |
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Post by Floyds on Apr 11, 2024 16:20:43 GMT 1
That can't really be said with the amount of games he took...he won a couple and we had some fight.. Really? That collapse against Southampton was 100% proof of Worthy's absence of game management. Love Worthy (one of my favourite players from his era) but those calling for him to be kept on as manager til the end of the season were (almost) as bad as those calling for Pelach to get the job permanently. As myself (and others) have said, there's no way the players could have kept up the "all throttle no brake" football for the rest of the season; they're blowing out their arses after half hour most of them. Whether that's an indictment of the players themselves or the pre-season or King Colin's training methods or just an indication of the speed of modern football I don't know, but there's no way they'd have kept it up and (I think) we'd have had MORE collapses like Tuesday and possibly less points on the board. His lack of game management was plain to see; the only instruction he gave the players (which he's as much as admitted) was to go out and play. How’s AB’s in game management or tactics? Pretty dreadful from what I’ve seen. Get him gone.👌 |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 11, 2024 16:23:22 GMT 1
Really? That collapse against Southampton was 100% proof of Worthy's absence of game management. Love Worthy (one of my favourite players from his era) but those calling for him to be kept on as manager til the end of the season were (almost) as bad as those calling for Pelach to get the job permanently. As myself (and others) have said, there's no way the players could have kept up the "all throttle no brake" football for the rest of the season; they're blowing out their arses after half hour most of them. Whether that's an indictment of the players themselves or the pre-season or King Colin's training methods or just an indication of the speed of modern football I don't know, but there's no way they'd have kept it up and (I think) we'd have had MORE collapses like Tuesday and possibly less points on the board. His lack of game management was plain to see; the only instruction he gave the players (which he's as much as admitted) was to go out and play. How’s AB’s in game management or tactics? Pretty dreadful from what I’ve seen. Get him gone.👌 Agreed. Get Worthy in. |
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Post by mosher on Apr 11, 2024 16:28:08 GMT 1
Really? That collapse against Southampton was 100% proof of Worthy's absence of game management. Love Worthy (one of my favourite players from his era) but those calling for him to be kept on as manager til the end of the season were (almost) as bad as those calling for Pelach to get the job permanently. As myself (and others) have said, there's no way the players could have kept up the "all throttle no brake" football for the rest of the season; they're blowing out their arses after half hour most of them. Whether that's an indictment of the players themselves or the pre-season or King Colin's training methods or just an indication of the speed of modern football I don't know, but there's no way they'd have kept it up and (I think) we'd have had MORE collapses like Tuesday and possibly less points on the board. His lack of game management was plain to see; the only instruction he gave the players (which he's as much as admitted) was to go out and play. How’s AB’s in game management or tactics? Pretty dreadful from what I’ve seen. Get him gone.👌 So far his in-game management/substitutions/tactics have been baffling to say the least, I completely agree. With his track record I'd like to see what he's like with his own players though. |
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Post by malcolmbrown on Apr 12, 2024 22:15:25 GMT 1
Well 2 out of Town, Wednesday and Birmingham are going down.
You've got to put your money on Wednesday staying up.
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Apr 12, 2024 22:18:55 GMT 1
Well 2 out of Town, Wednesday and Birmingham are going down. You've got to put your money on Wednesday staying up. I don’t know mate have you seen Blackburn’s fixtures I’d definitely add them to the mix still. It’s also 1 from 3 we’ve no chance with our spineless unfit lot. |
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under him game after game
