duncfost01
David Wagner Terrier
[M0:1]
Posts: 2,838
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Post by duncfost01 on Nov 1, 2023 14:29:46 GMT 1
He's made a rod for his own back, I'm afraid. However, I'm very much of the opinion that owners shouldn't be commenting on football matters anyway. As Brian Clough once said, he should "leave the football to the professionals and start signing some fucking cheques". I think that was his plan but maybe not so much the cheques bit! Looking at the situation objectively, the terrible decision making, several key ones, are all the responsibility of one man. If I were kev I wouldn’t be putting any more trust in that person. We can all make mistakes and hindsight is a wonderful thing but when you’re making several, really big obvious ones it’s time to go imo especially with the unforgiving nature of football, there’s no time for one more chance etc. If nothing is done then I’ll take that as an acceptance of relegation and confirmation that the levels of investment required can’t or won’t be met by KN. We will see in Jan, I previously said we’ll see in summer and then well see when the new coach is announced. What we’ve seen so far is a huge lack of investment and massive lack of footballing nous, I’m not really sure why any of us would expect different in Jan. Ask yourselves why does he go on twitter ? |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 1, 2023 14:31:37 GMT 1
We need to be careful that we don't start sounding 'entitled'. KN was the only horse in town to my knowledge.We had a Chairman who needed/wanted out and although he did some great things made a mess at the end and we were left with a club with large debts, no assets and losing several million a year. He's not been here that long and I'm sure he's made plenty of mistakes - but FFS lets give him a chance. I've read several comments along the lines of 'big window coming up' or 'he needs to spend big or fuck off' Add to that the unbelievable conspiracy theories (and abuse) without any substance to support whatsoever, and he might just decide it was a big mistake and he's had enough. Apart from the other two interested parties... |
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Post by runner76 on Nov 1, 2023 14:33:22 GMT 1
We need to be careful that we don't start sounding 'entitled'. KN was the only horse in town to my knowledge. We had a Chairman who needed/wanted out and although he did some great things made a mess at the end and we were left with a club with large debts, no assets and losing several million a year. He's not been here that long and I'm sure he's made plenty of mistakes - but FFS lets give him a chance. I've read several comments along the lines of 'big window coming up' or 'he needs to spend big or fuck off' Add to that the unbelievable conspiracy theories (and abuse) without any substance to support whatsoever, and he might just decide it was a big mistake and he's had enough. Agree he definitely needs to be cut some slack by many on here. He’s making plenty of positive steps and trying to do right for the club. His main issue is on the footballing (and clearly most important side) of things. It looks like DM could be a mistake, and a costly one, but he’s not made billions by not making tough decisions…….keep the faith, I certainly am. |
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rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 448
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Post by rab030 on Nov 1, 2023 14:44:36 GMT 1
We need to be careful that we don't start sounding 'entitled'. KN was the only horse in town to my knowledge.We had a Chairman who needed/wanted out and although he did some great things made a mess at the end and we were left with a club with large debts, no assets and losing several million a year. He's not been here that long and I'm sure he's made plenty of mistakes - but FFS lets give him a chance. I've read several comments along the lines of 'big window coming up' or 'he needs to spend big or fuck off' Add to that the unbelievable conspiracy theories (and abuse) without any substance to support whatsoever, and he might just decide it was a big mistake and he's had enough. Apart from the other two interested parties... Who were not willing not pay Hoyle the number he wanted ! |
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DuffMan
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 541
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Post by DuffMan on Nov 1, 2023 14:49:13 GMT 1
Apart from the other two interested parties... Who were not willing not pay Hoyle the number he wanted ! wasn't the number zero unless we get back to the premier league? |
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Post by captainblack on Nov 1, 2023 14:52:36 GMT 1
He's made a rod for his own back, I'm afraid. However, I'm very much of the opinion that owners shouldn't be commenting on football matters anyway. As Brian Clough once said, he should "leave the football to the professionals and start signing some fucking cheques". I think that was his plan but maybe not so much the cheques bit! Looking at the situation objectively, the terrible decision making, several key ones, are all the responsibility of one man. If I were kev I wouldn’t be putting any more trust in that person. We can all make mistakes and hindsight is a wonderful thing but when you’re making several, really big obvious ones it’s time to go imo especially with the unforgiving nature of football, there’s no time for one more chance etc. If nothing is done then I’ll take that as an acceptance of relegation and confirmation that the levels of investment required can’t or won’t be met by KN. We will see in Jan, I previously said we’ll see in summer and then well see when the new coach is announced. What we’ve seen so far is a huge lack of investment and massive lack of footballing nous, I’m not really sure why any of us would expect different in Jan. point taken , I think we will all know where we stand come the January window! If KN comes up with nothing then we will all know the guy is a complete chancer , I hope I am totally mistaken, but I cannot see KN investing anything in the club in January's window, and I also predict DM will not be at the club, just opinions! |
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Post by royrace on Nov 1, 2023 14:56:56 GMT 1
We need to be careful that we don't start sounding 'entitled'. KN was the only horse in town to my knowledge. We had a Chairman who needed/wanted out and although he did some great things made a mess at the end and we were left with a club with large debts, no assets and losing several million a year. He's not been here that long and I'm sure he's made plenty of mistakes - but FFS lets give him a chance. I've read several comments along the lines of 'big window coming up' or 'he needs to spend big or fuck off' Add to that the unbelievable conspiracy theories (and abuse) without any substance to support whatsoever, and he might just decide it was a big mistake and he's had enough. My very simple take on the situation is don’t buy a championship club unless you’re prepared to fund it, it’s that simple. There were other interested parities and even if there weren’t nobody forced KN to buy the club. He does need to spend big in January due to the shitshow in the summer, that’s his responsibility as the owner. That’s not being entitled, it’s logic. He is being given a chance, so far it’s been a shitshow, hopefully it will improve. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 1, 2023 15:03:44 GMT 1
Apart from the other two interested parties... Who were not willing not pay Hoyle the number he wanted ! Wrong. |
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rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 448
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Post by rab030 on Nov 1, 2023 15:04:46 GMT 1
We need to be careful that we don't start sounding 'entitled'. KN was the only horse in town to my knowledge. We had a Chairman who needed/wanted out and although he did some great things made a mess at the end and we were left with a club with large debts, no assets and losing several million a year. He's not been here that long and I'm sure he's made plenty of mistakes - but FFS lets give him a chance. I've read several comments along the lines of 'big window coming up' or 'he needs to spend big or fuck off' Add to that the unbelievable conspiracy theories (and abuse) without any substance to support whatsoever, and he might just decide it was a big mistake and he's had enough. My very simple take on the situation is don’t buy a championship club unless you’re prepared to fund it, it’s that simple. There were other interested parities and even if there weren’t nobody forced KN to buy the club. He does need to spend big in January due to the shitshow in the summer, that’s his responsibility as the owner. That’s not being entitled, it’s logic. That's the most entitled opinion I've seen so far. I suggest you go and play Football Manager which allows you to play out your fantasy.
How much is the club currently losing each month (Income v Expenditure) ?
His responsibility is to make sure the club is as solid as it can be across all areas including financially viable.He is being given a chance, so far it’s been a shitshow, hopefully it will improve. |
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rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 448
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Post by rab030 on Nov 1, 2023 15:06:48 GMT 1
Who were not willing not pay Hoyle the number he wanted ! Wrong. It's not wrong but to be honest its not worth the discussion... |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 1, 2023 15:49:12 GMT 1
It's not wrong but to be honest its not worth the discussion... It is wrong. One of them offered to pay Hoyle off there and then, but he didn't want that. |
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rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 448
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Post by rab030 on Nov 1, 2023 15:56:38 GMT 1
It's not wrong but to be honest its not worth the discussion... It is wrong. One of them offered to pay Hoyle off there and then, but he didn't want that. Like I said - so that wasn't the number he wanted. |
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Post by royrace on Nov 1, 2023 15:57:26 GMT 1
My very simple take on the situation is don’t buy a championship club unless you’re prepared to fund it, it’s that simple. There were other interested parities and even if there weren’t nobody forced KN to buy the club. He does need to spend big in January due to the shitshow in the summer, that’s his responsibility as the owner. That’s not being entitled, it’s logic. That's the most entitled opinion I've seen so far. I suggest you go and play Football Manager which allows you to play out your fantasy.
How much is the club currently losing each month (Income v Expenditure) ?
His responsibility is to make sure the club is as solid as it can be across all areas including financially viable.He is being given a chance, so far it’s been a shitshow, hopefully it will improve. I'd reply but fear id be wasting my time. I'll just get back on football manager. Zzzzz |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 1, 2023 16:02:09 GMT 1
It is wrong. One of them offered to pay Hoyle off there and then, but he didn't want that. Like I said - so that wasn't the number he wanted. So they offered to pay him in full there and then and that wasn't what he wanted?  You're hilarious. |
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rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 448
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Post by rab030 on Nov 1, 2023 16:05:39 GMT 1
So why didn't he accept it ?
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 1, 2023 16:06:53 GMT 1
So why didn't he accept it ? You tell me. The only reason the European ownership, which is the deal Hoyle preferred, didn't go through is because they couldn't prove they had the funds to run the club for three years. I've no idea what goes through Hoyle's head anymore, especially as he previously picked Hodgkinson and has now picked this fella. |
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rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 448
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Post by rab030 on Nov 1, 2023 16:14:49 GMT 1
Lets end this as its really not worth discussing when we have self-serve beer and new pies coming.
But if they didn't have the funds to run the club then it wasn't really a genuine interested party.
The point I was trying to make is that there wasn't a big queue and there wouldn't be one now either.
We've got an owner who so far hasn't done a lot to impress us and a manger you can say the same about.
But I personally don't think the over reaction on here is justified.
UTT
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 1, 2023 16:21:06 GMT 1
Lets end this as its really not worth discussing when we have self-serve beer and new pies coming. But if they didn't have the funds to run the club then it wasn't really a genuine interested party. The point I was trying to make is that there wasn't a big queue and there wouldn't be one now either. We've got an owner who so far hasn't done a lot to impress us and a manger you can say the same about. But I personally don't think the over reaction on here is justified. UTT If you say so. |
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Post by desertstorm on Nov 1, 2023 16:31:05 GMT 1
Just to put an end to this misconception that KN wasn’t willing to spend money - that is indeed correct. In recruitment terms, we need to look at our candidate attraction. Why didn’t players want to come, what were their concerns. Furthermore, ask yourself if any of these have been addressed.
Finally, the players we could have brought on made the club feel uneasy, would have commanded ridiculous figures. Add to that a conflict of interests.
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 1, 2023 16:50:18 GMT 1
Just to put an end to this misconception that KN wasn’t willing to spend money - that is indeed correct. In recruitment terms, we need to look at our candidate attraction. Why didn’t players want to come, what were their concerns. Furthermore, ask yourself if any of these have been addressed. Finally, the players we could have brought on made the club feel uneasy, would have commanded ridiculous figures. Add to that a conflict of interests. So why keep hiding behind FFP then? |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 1, 2023 16:54:11 GMT 1
Like I said - so that wasn't the number he wanted. So they offered to pay him in full there and then and that wasn't what he wanted? You're hilarious. Must've been asking him to pay them to take the club off his hands then 😉 |
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Post by exberlinerterrier on Nov 1, 2023 17:00:29 GMT 1
Just to put an end to this misconception that KN wasn’t willing to spend money - that is indeed correct. In recruitment terms, we need to look at our candidate attraction. Why didn’t players want to come, what were their concerns. Furthermore, ask yourself if any of these have been addressed. Finally, the players we could have brought on made the club feel uneasy, would have commanded ridiculous figures. Add to that a conflict of interests. Would it be possible to elaborate on the conflict of interests? |
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Post by Sio on Nov 1, 2023 17:17:44 GMT 1
Just to put an end to this misconception that KN wasn’t willing to spend money - that is indeed correct. In recruitment terms, we need to look at our candidate attraction. Why didn’t players want to come, what were their concerns. Furthermore, ask yourself if any of these have been addressed. Finally, the players we could have brought on made the club feel uneasy, would have commanded ridiculous figures. Add to that a conflict of interests. Would it be possible to elaborate on the conflict of interests? They wanted to join a club with ambition |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,202
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Post by iangreaves on Nov 1, 2023 17:54:27 GMT 1
Just to put an end to this misconception that KN wasn’t willing to spend money - that is indeed correct. In recruitment terms, we need to look at our candidate attraction. Why didn’t players want to come, what were their concerns. Furthermore, ask yourself if any of these have been addressed. Finally, the players we could have brought on made the club feel uneasy, would have commanded ridiculous figures. Add to that a conflict of interests. Would it be possible to elaborate on the conflict of interests? Mark Cartwright and Tom Edwards, perhaps? |
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Post by royrace on Nov 1, 2023 18:03:20 GMT 1
Just to put an end to this misconception that KN wasn’t willing to spend money - that is indeed correct. In recruitment terms, we need to look at our candidate attraction. Why didn’t players want to come, what were their concerns. Furthermore, ask yourself if any of these have been addressed. Finally, the players we could have brought on made the club feel uneasy, would have commanded ridiculous figures. Add to that a conflict of interests. Don't quite understand the misconception part of your post? One thing I do know is that players will be much less inclined to come in January with us in the relegation zone with a manager who looks like he'll be sacked any minute. I think transfers are notoriously difficult aren't they, there seems to be a suggestion that some didn't want to work with Warnock or a manager that would be here for a year but surely it's the DoF and chief exec remit to sell the club, after all managers rarely last as long as a players contract. None of it adds up I'm afraid and that's a common theme. Those ridiculous figures are either standard for the championship or the club isn't cutting it's cloth accordingly. No point me walking into the Ferrari dealership and complaining about the prices. If the club had a decent pipeline of prospects it seems unlikely every single one would fall through. |
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Post by hoggy1975 on Nov 1, 2023 18:25:28 GMT 1
Just to put an end to this misconception that KN wasn’t willing to spend money - that is indeed correct. In recruitment terms, we need to look at our candidate attraction. Why didn’t players want to come, what were their concerns. Furthermore, ask yourself if any of these have been addressed. Finally, the players we could have brought on made the club feel uneasy, would have commanded ridiculous figures. Add to that a conflict of interests. If you’re implying it’s because of Warnock - would players be more attracted to playing for Darren moore? I don’t see a better style of play, if anything we have gone backwards without any tactical awareness. January we may be bottom 3 and a crowd that doesn’t support the manager, is that attractive to players? No one asked for ridiculous players on ridiculous wages, but it’s up to the recruitment team to provide good options (not edwards!!!) and for the owner to present the money if within the budget. If the budget isn’t big enough, whose fault is that? At the end of the day the squad is short. You/american ownership/Cartwright whoever can blame Warnock all you want but at the end of the day we don’t have the squad depth to deal with a full championship season. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Nov 1, 2023 18:49:39 GMT 1
Just to put an end to this misconception that KN wasn’t willing to spend money - that is indeed correct. In recruitment terms, we need to look at our candidate attraction. Why didn’t players want to come, what were their concerns. Furthermore, ask yourself if any of these have been addressed. Finally, the players we could have brought on made the club feel uneasy, would have commanded ridiculous figures. Add to that a conflict of interests. Would it be possible to elaborate on the conflict of interests? The conflict of interest relates to Warnock and a cut of the transfer making its way back to him through certain channels, I'm assuming his son acting as agent |
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Post by exberlinerterrier on Nov 1, 2023 18:58:50 GMT 1
Would it be possible to elaborate on the conflict of interests? The conflict of interest relates to Warnock and a cut of the transfer making its way back to him through certain channels, I'm assuming his son acting as agent Well there’s that angle, but there’s also the links between Cartwright and Edwards via Beswicks Sports & Stoke City, both of which are Cartwright’s former employers. |
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DuffMan
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 541
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Post by DuffMan on Nov 1, 2023 19:16:39 GMT 1
doesn't DJ sturridge share an agent with Darren Moore? They are all at it
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Post by desertstorm on Nov 1, 2023 19:27:33 GMT 1
The conflict of interest relates to Warnock and a cut of the transfer making its way back to him through certain channels, I'm assuming his son acting as agent Well there’s that angle, but there’s also the links between Cartwright and Edwards via Beswicks Sports & Stoke City, both of which are Cartwright’s former employers. To further elaborate on my earlier post. I believe that some of our barriers in terms of candidate attraction have been addressed. There are other things to look at though. KN trusts his people, and only when it becomes apparent to him that someone isn’t as they seemed, will the club take the appropriate action. We have an history of being potent in the loan market. In the summer we were very cordial, not because we hadn’t expressed interest and made presentations to clubs/players - clubs were reluctant to loan us their young talent. I think this will change in future windows. Certain people will be under the microscope. |
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