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Post by 28901 on Nov 1, 2023 17:28:10 GMT 1
Also, whilst I had the stats to hand….clubs in the Championship who have spent longer in the PL than Town, so likely think they are ‘bigger’ clubs just FYI : Birmingham Blackburn Coventry Hull Ipswich Leeds Leicester Middlesbrough Norwich QPR Sheffield Wednesday Southampton Stoke Sunderland Swansea Watford West Brom Apart from Blackburn, similar, Hull, no history poss more potential, QPR, tho spent much more time in top flight recent decades, Swansea and Watford, ditto, I'd say they all are bigger.
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Rambo
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by Rambo on Nov 1, 2023 17:36:15 GMT 1
The championship is fast becoming like the prem league, look at Leicester this season and Burnley last season, the list goes on, but the gap which have been caused mainly by parachute payments are there to see. Absolutely agree with how the parachute payments help teams coming down from THE Prem. Look how strong we became in Championship as a result. 😕
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deepc
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by deepc on Nov 1, 2023 17:45:08 GMT 1
As we all know football did not exist before the creation of the premier league,so all the achievements pre 1992 do not count. The years spent in the top divisions are meaningless, the cups and championships won are worthless. Blackburn,Cov,hull,Ipswich, Norwich,QPR,Stoke,Borough,Swansea,Stoke Watford all bigger clubs than us😂😂😂😂
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Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Nov 1, 2023 18:00:54 GMT 1
Perspective? Sure.
It's only football. Obviously I don't want it to happen but if we're in Lg1 next season who dies? If we drop straight through the leagues to the level that Stockport County fell to not do long ago, so what? Non-league football can be fun.
Even if the club went completely bust. Ceased to exist. Didn't even have a Phoenix club. Ok, it would take away something that has been a big part of s lot of people's lives, but even if it happened - worse things are going to happen in life.
In the meantime it's still frustrating how the opportunity that the PL years afforded us was squandered.
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Post by boooothy on Nov 1, 2023 18:37:32 GMT 1
We have made bad decisions no doubt about it but some decisions are worse than others.
Many relegated teams went for promotion back to the Premier League. Those that achieved it, brilliant. Those that didn’t ruined the club’s future.
We didn’t bother trying to go back to the Premier League. I don’t even agree with the opinion we over spent while there.
I’d much rather have the Hoyle/Phil/Kevin incompetent approach than the Rubery boom or bust. That bloke still puzzles me, he didn’t even wait to see if we boomed before we bust.
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Post by royrace on Nov 1, 2023 18:53:25 GMT 1
We have made bad decisions no doubt about it but some decisions are worse than others. Many relegated teams went for promotion back to the Premier League. Those that achieved it, brilliant. Those that didn’t ruined the club’s future. We didn’t bother trying to go back to the Premier League. I don’t even agree with the opinion we over spent while there. I’d much rather have the Hoyle/Phil/Kevin incompetent approach than the Rubery boom or bust. That bloke still puzzles me, he didn’t even wait to see if we boomed before we bust. I agree, we didn’t overspend, I’d say we probably spent less than the vast majority of promoted clubs in both seasons. In fact in the second season we even very sensibly squirreled away approx 12M to spend upgrading the training ground instead of blowing it on players. Not quite sure where that went but it didn’t get spent on the training ground. The problem is we bought an absolute pile of crap that were worthless the day they signed, couldn’t get rid and had to pay til their contracts ended. The fault of the people running the recruitment and ultimately Hoyle. It wasn’t overspending it was rank bad management and decision making. A familiar theme.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 1, 2023 18:57:21 GMT 1
Club history means nothing. History is created in the now. Woolworths used to dominate the high street. Blockbuster etc. If you stay still and accept status quo because its worked in the past... that's where you'll end up. Come on Kev.... enough is enough. Well, we are definitely not creating any memorable moments of future history right now…..;; I dunno, suspect the name Tom Edwards will echo down the ages like Kwami Hdoutou (sp? Can’t be arsed looking)
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Post by royrace on Nov 1, 2023 19:00:35 GMT 1
Well, we are definitely not creating any memorable moments of future history right now…..;; I dunno, suspect the name Tom Edwards will echo down the ages like Kwami Hdoutou (sp? Can’t be arsed looking) Yep will go down in history along with Kwami, Jason Davidson and Herbert Bockhorn. At least Herbert had the decency to never play again once he’d shown how out of his depth he was. No idea how Tom is getting picked.
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Post by swam4mwg on Nov 1, 2023 19:04:05 GMT 1
Agreed this League One talk of it being more enjoyable is absolute nonesense, some folk want to give their heads a shake. Agree, some say they have no interest in seeing town playing in the premier league again, quite happy to make up the numbers and forever be in the lower leagues, then quite possibly some of those same people will witter and moan when town are doing shite like now, wish they'd make their bloody minds up, ultimately you either want town to win lots and lots of games or you dont, if you dont you're spending saturdays in the wrong place. The English Football Pyramid means you aim to play at the highest level you can. You should always want your team to win and hopefully be successful. Of course for many reasons it doesn't always work that way. Some clubs end up in oblivion. EPL or even the NPL. It can happen.
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Post by space hardware on Nov 1, 2023 19:26:13 GMT 1
I dunno, suspect the name Tom Edwards will echo down the ages like Kwami Hdoutou (sp? Can’t be arsed looking) Yep will go down in history along with Kwami, Jason Davidson and Herbert Bockhorn. At least Herbert had the decency to never play again once he’d shown how out of his depth he was. No idea how Tom is getting picked. Bockhorn has had a very decent career in Germany since leaving us 😱
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Nov 1, 2023 20:33:36 GMT 1
Yep will go down in history along with Kwami, Jason Davidson and Herbert Bockhorn. At least Herbert had the decency to never play again once he’d shown how out of his depth he was. No idea how Tom is getting picked. Bockhorn has had a very decent career in Germany since leaving us 😱 Does that say summat about Town? I think he played 1 League Cup game against Lincoln.
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Post by space hardware on Nov 1, 2023 21:22:35 GMT 1
Bockhorn has had a very decent career in Germany since leaving us 😱 Does that say summat about Town? I think he played 1 League Cup game against Lincoln. Maybe he just couldn't settle here, as he's played a good few games at Bundesliga 2 level since, which is probably the same standard as the Championship.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Nov 1, 2023 22:13:10 GMT 1
Does that say summat about Town? I think he played 1 League Cup game against Lincoln. Maybe he just couldn't settle here, as he's played a good few games at Bundesliga 2 level since, which is probably the same standard as the Championship. It's a graveyard for some players Town.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,464
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Post by goodbet on Nov 1, 2023 22:32:48 GMT 1
The championship is fast becoming like the prem league, look at Leicester this season and Burnley last season, the list goes on, but the gap which have been caused mainly by parachute payments are there to see. Parachute payments? What are they?
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Post by space hardware on Nov 1, 2023 22:39:58 GMT 1
The championship is fast becoming like the prem league, look at Leicester this season and Burnley last season, the list goes on, but the gap which have been caused mainly by parachute payments are there to see. Parachute payments? What are they? Ask good old Deano
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Nov 1, 2023 22:41:05 GMT 1
I am not sure that perspective is really of any value. Everyone will have a view of where they think Town should be and the level they should be attaining. The truth is it is really down to the few people in charge and the decisions they take. Their perspective, ability to invest (noting that it isn't necessarily the amount you have, it is how it is used), ambition, plan and the people they employ. We can compare to other clubs but is wishing we were run like Brighton any less valid that being glad we weren't run like Bury? I don't think we have many fans who I would describe as being "entitled", if anything we have more who play down our standing. In reality every club is looking for stewardship that looks to achieve the maximum that a club is capable of. We have new ownership and we are, still, waiting to see what Mr Nagle will achieve. If I had a criticism of the message around ambition and targets it would be this: I have heard the words around challenging to be in the Premier League in 3 years (not unreasonable for us, and many other clubs) but I can't align that to a plan or actions. It is early days but we do need to see some tangible evidence of progress and as it stands right now I don't see it. In short I am too not fussed about other teams, it is about what happens with us that matters. I agree with you. I want to see what KN will do about strengthening the squad. We have had some talk about the food, and the Premier League in three years etc but we only have the summer window to show his actual commitment to the first team. Hopefully the summer window is not indicative of what his tenure is going to be like at the club.
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Post by belizian on Nov 2, 2023 3:49:31 GMT 1
I think the progress of many football clubs often has a sine like quality. A gradual ramp up from the start to eventually reach the apex and then a falling off down the lagging edge and return to a similar position to where they started. For Town our zero could be the start of our climb out of the fourth division, through the third and second divisions and culminating in our reaching the apex (the day we won promotion to the Premiership?). From that day we've been sliding down the lagging edge, slowly at firt but, it seems, recently gaining momentum. Division one and two beckon ;o)
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cyberman
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by cyberman on Nov 2, 2023 6:32:27 GMT 1
I think the progress of many football clubs often has a sine like quality. A gradual ramp up from the start to eventually reach the apex and then a falling off down the lagging edge and return to a similar position to where they started. For Town our zero could be the start of our climb out of the fourth division, through the third and second divisions and culminating in our reaching the apex (the day we won promotion to the Premiership?). From that day we've been sliding down the lagging edge, slowly at firt but, it seems, recently gaining momentum. Division one and two beckon ;o) Life is a Shite ? - maybe the clappers will help
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Post by terriers321 on Nov 2, 2023 7:46:07 GMT 1
As we all know football did not exist before the creation of the premier league,so all the achievements pre 1992 do not count. The years spent in the top divisions are meaningless, the cups and championships won are worthless. Blackburn,Cov,hull,Ipswich, Norwich,QPR,Stoke,Borough,Swansea,Stoke Watford all bigger clubs than us😂😂😂😂 Loads of them are bigger clubs than us. Football may not have stated in 1992 but that also doesnt mean you dont count whats happened in the past 30 years.
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 2, 2023 9:12:57 GMT 1
Also, whilst I had the stats to hand….clubs in the Championship who have spent longer in the PL than Town, so likely think they are ‘bigger’ clubs just FYI : Birmingham Blackburn Coventry Hull Ipswich Leeds Leicester Middlesbrough Norwich QPR Sheffield Wednesday Southampton Stoke Sunderland Swansea Watford West Brom Apart from Blackburn, similar, Hull, no history poss more potential, QPR, tho spent much more time in top flight recent decades, Swansea and Watford, ditto, I'd say they all are bigger. I wouldn't say Middlesbrough were bigger either. Very little history and had their fair share of years in the doldrums as well.
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 2, 2023 9:14:02 GMT 1
Bockhorn has had a very decent career in Germany since leaving us 😱 Does that say summat about Town? I think he played 1 League Cup game against Lincoln. Cowley said he was a good lad but not good enough for the Championship.
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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Nov 2, 2023 10:04:54 GMT 1
This thread is badly needed, well done Runner. Reading’s plight worsens: efl.com/news/2023/november/01/efl-statement-reading-fc/Wednesday in dire straits. We’re right to question performances on the grass, but we need to reflect and be grateful that we didn’t go into administration earlier this year and Nagle has taken us on as his English project rather than another club.
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Post by royrace on Nov 2, 2023 10:48:41 GMT 1
Does that say summat about Town? I think he played 1 League Cup game against Lincoln. Cowley said he was a good lad but not good enough for the Championship. To be fair his previous career suggested be wasn't good enough for the championship too. Surprised to hear he's doing well in Germany, good on him!
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Post by paulmat on Nov 2, 2023 10:55:33 GMT 1
Of all our defeats this season, losing 3-2 to Middlesbrough in the EFL cup with 10 men and a B team out probably doesn't stand out. However I've just realised that after winning that game Boro have played:
Bolton in the 2nd round Bradford in the 3rd round Exeter in the 4th round
and now have a quarter final against Port Vale.
In an alternate universe, Headley doesn't get sent off, Warnock is still here, and we're dreaming of a major cup semi final.
(I'm aware we would be more than capable of losing to Bolton, Exeter and Port Vale)
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Nov 2, 2023 10:58:27 GMT 1
Cowley said he was a good lad but not good enough for the Championship. To be fair his previous career suggested be wasn't good enough for the championship too. Surprised to hear he's doing well in Germany, good on him! I'm sure midlander would know better off hand (follows Bochum), but I think he was a fringe player when Bochum got promoted to the Bundesliga only a couple of years ago. Scored 2 yesterday for Magdeburg in the German cup (one a penalty in the shoot out), Magdeburg just about holding their heads above water in the German second division now.
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Nov 2, 2023 11:14:24 GMT 1
Of all our defeats this season, losing 3-2 to Middlesbrough in the EFL cup with 10 men and a B team out probably doesn't stand out. However I've just realised that after winning that game Boro have played: Bolton in the 2nd round Bradford in the 3rd round Exeter in the 4th round and now have a quarter final against Port Vale. In an alternate universe, Headley doesn't get sent off, Warnock is still here, and we're dreaming of a major cup semi final. (I'm aware we would be more than capable of losing to Bolton, Exeter and Port Vale) I stopped looking who we would have got after Boro got Bolton. But, yes, certainly winnable games you'd think - does make you wonder what might have been! If it carries on like this for Boro (always getting "decent" cup draws), then I think I might have fancied us in a game with Everton in the final at Wembley! :-)
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Post by turbo2 on Nov 2, 2023 11:16:33 GMT 1
Of all our defeats this season, losing 3-2 to Middlesbrough in the EFL cup with 10 men and a B team out probably doesn't stand out. However I've just realised that after winning that game Boro have played: Bolton in the 2nd round Bradford in the 3rd round Exeter in the 4th round and now have a quarter final against Port Vale. In an alternate universe, Headley doesn't get sent off, Warnock is still here, and we're dreaming of a major cup semi final. (I'm aware we would be more than capable of losing to Bolton, Exeter and Port Vale) I stopped looking who we would have got after Boro got Bolton. But, yes, certainly winnable games you'd think - does make you wonder what might have been! If it carries on like this for Boro (always getting "decent" cup draws), then I think I might have fancied us in a game with Everton in the final at Wembley! :-) We'd probably have rested our best 11 and played the kids
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drewden
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by drewden on Nov 2, 2023 11:20:10 GMT 1
Could have won some dosh as well to buy some players.
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Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by Amigo on Nov 2, 2023 11:31:54 GMT 1
I know there's still a lot of ifs and buts however it does make it frustrating that we'd feel the need to almost sacrifice a match to rest players in what was our 2nd game of the season when a cup run could have given everyone a bit of a boost.
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ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,829
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Post by ambryboy on Nov 2, 2023 11:34:59 GMT 1
I know there's still a lot of ifs and buts however it does make it frustrating that we'd feel the need to almost sacrifice a match to rest players in what was our 2nd game of the season when a cup run could have given everyone a bit of a boost. Agreed, you should put out a team with a view to trying to win every game and not resting players after one bloody game. Winning breeds confidence and can help with momentum.
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