Match day atmosphere - a continental comparison

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Hi all

I spent last week in Rome, and (since Roma didn't have a game) took my lad to see Lazio at home to Fiorentina last Monday night at the Stadio Olimpico.

Every aspect of the experience was markedly different to a game at the JSS. 

We arrived with a good 45 minutes to spare. We elected to eat at the stadium so had some freshly made pizza from one of the concessions stall, which were well staffed and had quick service. I paid around 8 quid for a beer and a decent sized slab of pizza. We took our seats and were shocked by the atmosphere. With 35 minutes to go to kick off the noise was deafening, despite the stadium being half full (roughly £35k).

The pre-match hype was built by what was clearly a regular playlist of songs being booked out over a crystal clear PA system. The warm ups were conducted during a deafening  cacophony of noise. Flags waving everywhere. when the teams were announced, their stadium announcer announced each player with a shout of their first name, and the entire crowd as once responded with the surname.

The game was conducted with no lull in the noise. These guys never seemed to repeat a chant, yet they never stopped. It was a tightly fought contest, and when Fiorentina netted the Lazio fans simply started chanting even louder without hesitation, before the goal was ruled out by VAR. 

There was no let up at half time and despite it looking like it may end as a goalless draw, the fans were relentless. They were rewarded when Ciro Immobile scored a stoppage-time penalty, the last kick of the match. The announcer then led the celebration by shouting "Ciro" and the fans responded "Immobile". this was repeated too many times to count (at least ten) and the stadium was crazy. 

After the game my lad commented that it was impossible to have any meaningful conversation about the match during it as we couldn't really hear each other. 

So, what is my point? Well, to my shame this was my first game overseas. And I simply couldn't stop comparing the atmosphere. Yes, Lazio are a big club but this was a Monday night, 8,45pm kick off in the autumn, Fiorentina bought only about 150 fans. The stadium was only half full. It would be the equivalent of a Tuesday night game at home to Stoke for us. And yet the fans played such a huge part in driving the team on, and they were encouraged by excellent "stage management" (best term I can think of) by the club. A superb sound system, integrated with big screens at both ends, and a stadium announcer that really loved the role of "hype man". (I have no problem with Rambo, by the way). I suppose I just wondered what it would be like to have that here,. The closest we had, I think, were Wagner's two full seasons. 

(also, not only can you take beer into the stands by they have at seat service. Superb). 

I know we don't have much to cheer about at the moment but then, relatively speaking, neither do Lazio. Oh, and I forgot to add when there was a downpour on the hour mark to a man every ultra took their shirts off, and the effect puts the Toon Army getting their moobs out to shame.

[Macduff]

Only trouble is if our players first names are called out, the crowd would respond with "who the fucks that?".

[detox]

dour yorkshire folk would be chuntering at all that 'noise'... Were the crowd a mixed bunch of youngsters and older folk or mainly youngsters ? I'm not against trying to 'up the anti' at the funereal JSS, and I don't hold with the argument that it all relies on what is going on on the pitch...fans need to have their own bubble and create their own scene...in liaison with the club.

[COWSHEDPHIL]

I've been to Boca, Fluminese and Flamengo, way better atmospheres, but mostly due to the fact people are allowed to actually do things over there. Over here we've got to get the club to sign off on a banner! lol

The vast majority of Town fans are fans that want to sit rather than get involved in atmoshphere.

[themanfromatlantis]

Nov 6, 2023 12:32:22 GMT 1 Macduff said:

Only trouble is if our players first names are called out, the crowd would respond with "who the fucks that?".

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Venezuelan Pete]

With all the will in the world, there's just a different ingrained attitude to football matchdays elsewhere compared to the UK. Out of the 92 football league clubs you could copy and paste your original post and it would apply to all of them. What you're getting at requires an enormous shift in culture and attitude towards football in this country, not just adding a few components here and there and hoping/expecting it to work.

I really don't have a solution because I think it is unsolvable.

[runner76]

To be fair, you need to go to an average L2 side in Italy who are at the bottom end of the table, to do a real 'like for like' comparison....would a Lecco Vs Pisa match be the same as the one you went to?......

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Nov 6, 2023 12:59:43 GMT 1 Venezuelan Pete said:

With all the will in the world, there's just a different ingrained attitude to football matchdays elsewhere compared to the UK. Out of the 92 football league clubs you could copy and paste your original post and it would apply to all of them. What you're getting at requires an enormous shift in culture and attitude towards football in this country, not just adding a few components here and there and hoping/expecting it to work.

I really don't have a solution because I think it is unsolvable.

yeah I think you're right. I guess I was wondering how we could narrow the gap, rather than emulate it entirely. 

[benhomly]

To be fair Lazio are top 10 and 2 points off the play-offs, not one above the relegation zone and 10 points off the play-offs.

I know you went to a night match but I doubt you get many November days in Rome where it hardly gets light and it pisses it down all day. We question our sanity turning up on days like that let alone trying to generate an atmosphere. If the CL took their shirts off on a day like Saturday we'd soon all be stood outside our back doors banging our pan lids again

[Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier]

Maybe it’s just another example of Italy getting it right? Good looking people, fantastic cities and countryside, the best food, the best music, the best national anthem….. all IMO of course. Love the place, shame we didn’t buy that little house in Puglia all those years ago!

I’ve been to games in Scotland, USA, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Mozambique, South Africa, Egypt….. all “different” to England, but nothing exceptional really.

[Essex Terrier]

Nov 6, 2023 13:52:49 GMT 1 Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier said:

Maybe it’s just another example of Italy getting it right? Good looking people, fantastic cities and countryside, the best food, the best music, the best national anthem….. all IMO of course. Love the place, shame we didn’t buy that little house in Puglia all those years ago!

I’ve been to games in Scotland, USA, Holland, Belgium, Portugal, Mozambique, South Africa, Egypt….. all “different” to England, but nothing exceptional really.

For one moment it was just like dear old Otium was back....

[Venezuelan Pete]

Nov 6, 2023 13:38:40 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

Nov 6, 2023 12:59:43 GMT 1 Venezuelan Pete said:

With all the will in the world, there's just a different ingrained attitude to football matchdays elsewhere compared to the UK. Out of the 92 football league clubs you could copy and paste your original post and it would apply to all of them. What you're getting at requires an enormous shift in culture and attitude towards football in this country, not just adding a few components here and there and hoping/expecting it to work.

I really don't have a solution because I think it is unsolvable.

yeah I think you're right. I guess I was wondering how we could narrow the gap, rather than emulate it entirely. 

The closest we will ever come is something similar to the Wagner years. Because it was different and everyone from top to bottom was pulling in the right direction, but most importantly the performances and results were there. Everything in this country is driven by what's happening on the pitch because we naturally do not have the attitude to support the team through thick and thin. And even those clubs in Europe who are hailed as being the best fans have their breaking point - watch the footage of Dortmund fans flooding out of the stadium when 3-0 down to Bayern at the weekend.

[Mastercracker]

You're mostly spot on but Lazio are also doing reasonably well these days, back in the champions league after being pretty crap for a long while. I imagine they currently have hope and a level of expectation.

We had a great atmosphere whilst we had the same, but after having virtually none for 5 years...it's now unsurprisingly crap. Newcastle used to be hilariously quiet before it just went toxic but now its fervent.

It's also country dependent. I've been to Sparta Prague and that was decent with only about 13k but Real Madrid was like a morgue with 80k both time's I've been.

English football is a sanitised TV program these days though on the whole.

[jasrick]

Nov 6, 2023 12:25:24 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

Hi all

I spent last week in Rome, and (since Roma didn't have a game) took my lad to see Lazio at home to Fiorentina last Monday night at the Stadio Olimpico.

Every aspect of the experience was markedly different to a game at the JSS. 

We arrived with a good 45 minutes to spare. We elected to eat at the stadium so had some freshly made pizza from one of the concessions stall, which were well staffed and had quick service. I paid around 8 quid for a beer and a decent sized slab of pizza. We took our seats and were shocked by the atmosphere. With 35 minutes to go to kick off the noise was deafening, despite the stadium being half full (roughly £35k).

The pre-match hype was built by what was clearly a regular playlist of songs being booked out over a crystal clear PA system. The warm ups were conducted during a deafening  cacophony of noise. Flags waving everywhere. when the teams were announced, their stadium announcer announced each player with a shout of their first name, and the entire crowd as once responded with the surname.

The game was conducted with no lull in the noise. These guys never seemed to repeat a chant, yet they never stopped. It was a tightly fought contest, and when Fiorentina netted the Lazio fans simply started chanting even louder without hesitation, before the goal was ruled out by VAR. 

There was no let up at half time and despite it looking like it may end as a goalless draw, the fans were relentless. They were rewarded when Ciro Immobile scored a stoppage-time penalty, the last kick of the match. The announcer then led the celebration by shouting "Ciro" and the fans responded "Immobile". this was repeated too many times to count (at least ten) and the stadium was crazy. 

After the game my lad commented that it was impossible to have any meaningful conversation about the match during it as we couldn't really hear each other. 

So, what is my point? Well, to my shame this was my first game overseas. And I simply couldn't stop comparing the atmosphere. Yes, Lazio are a big club but this was a Monday night, 8,45pm kick off in the autumn, Fiorentina bought only about 150 fans. The stadium was only half full. It would be the equivalent of a Tuesday night game at home to Stoke for us. And yet the fans played such a huge part in driving the team on, and they were encouraged by excellent "stage management" (best term I can think of) by the club. A superb sound system, integrated with big screens at both ends, and a stadium announcer that really loved the role of "hype man". (I have no problem with Rambo, by the way). I suppose I just wondered what it would be like to have that here,. The closest we had, I think, were Wagner's two full seasons. 

(also, not only can you take beer into the stands by they have at seat service. Superb). 

I know we don't have much to cheer about at the moment but then, relatively speaking, neither do Lazio. Oh, and I forgot to add when there was a downpour on the hour mark to a man every ultra took their shirts off, and the effect puts the Toon Army getting their moobs out to shame.

Similarly, I went to a Lecce match towards the end of September. Everything about it was fantastic - I'm thinking of making them my first team and demoting Town, it's just a trickier round trip going to the south east corner of Italy.

[benroberts]

Nov 6, 2023 14:19:52 GMT 1 Mastercracker said:

You're mostly spot on but Lazio are also doing reasonably well these days, back in the champions league after being pretty crap for a long while. I imagine they currently have hope and a level of expectation.

We had a great atmosphere whilst we had the same, but after having virtually none for 5 years...it's now unsurprisingly crap. Newcastle used to be hilariously quiet before it just went toxic but now its fervent.

It's also country dependent. I've been to Sparta Prague and that was decent with only about 13k but Real Madrid was like a morgue with 80k both time's I've been.

English football is a sanitised TV program these days though on the whole.

Next time you visit Madrid, do whatever you can to get a ticket for Rayo Vallecano, my adopted club in Spain. Brilloant pre match drinking, a rickety old stadium that holds 14k, close to capacity every match, and a belting atmosphere with chanting throughout. Like being transported back to the 80s.

[benroberts]

The Fenerbahce stadium announcer is top notch:

[Mastercracker]

Nov 6, 2023 15:41:02 GMT 1 benroberts said:

The Fenerbahce stadium announcer is top notch:

He's clearly no spin us a tune from 1993 please Robert.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Nov 6, 2023 15:43:59 GMT 1 Mastercracker said:

Nov 6, 2023 15:41:02 GMT 1 benroberts said:

The Fenerbahce stadium announcer is top notch:

He's clearly no spin us a tune from 1993 please Robert.

NGL, I'd love to have a go...

[townarentbest]

Nov 6, 2023 12:25:24 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

So, what is my point? Well, to my shame this was my first game overseas. And I simply couldn't stop comparing the atmosphere. Yes, Lazio are a big club but this was a Monday night, 8,45pm kick off in the autumn, Fiorentina bought only about 150 fans. The stadium was only half full. It would be the equivalent of a Tuesday night game at home to Stoke for us. 

Hmm...except it was an announced attendance of 35,000, for a top flight game. Nothing like us vs Stoke!

A better comparison with Italy would have been to pop along to Reggiano vs Lecco in Serie B, same tier that we're in, and seen what it would have been like to watch that game pan out with just 9,400 fans in a stadium slightly smaller than ours.

Looks and sounds very much like any Town match, with a bit more whistling with the addition of annoying waving of big flags throughout.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Nov 6, 2023 16:27:31 GMT 1 townarentbest said:

Nov 6, 2023 12:25:24 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

So, what is my point? Well, to my shame this was my first game overseas. And I simply couldn't stop comparing the atmosphere. Yes, Lazio are a big club but this was a Monday night, 8,45pm kick off in the autumn, Fiorentina bought only about 150 fans. The stadium was only half full. It would be the equivalent of a Tuesday night game at home to Stoke for us. 

Hmm...except it was an announced attendance of 35,000, for a top flight game. Nothing like us vs Stoke!

A better comparison with Italy would have been to pop along to Reggiano vs Lecco in Serie B, same tier that we're in, and seen what it would have been like to watch that game pan out with just 9,400 fans in a stadium slightly smaller than ours.

Looks and sounds very much like any Town match, with a bit more whistling with the addition of annoying waving of big flags throughout.

Hmmm, except as I said it was a half full stadium for a week night evening kick off - hence the comparison. Yes, it was top flight, but my point is there were very few away fans, 1/2 the stadium was empty and there's no natural big rivalry.

[sabailand]

Different fan cultures that i dont think will ever change, while one may be in awe at a Lazio serie A game other leagues and fans around the world marvel at attendances in the UK, teams not in the top flight regularly attracting better crowds than some of the teams in the big leagues in Europe, even non league teams can attract thousands. I suppose all the different and positive attributes whch some countries football fans have would all be appreciated by fans in other countries too...ie big attendances, atmosphere, fan participation etc etc.

[The King's Head 1230]

[townrwe]

Went to FC St Pauli a few years ago, cracking atmosphere, standing terrace and beers served by people with kegs on their back on the terrace. Would need a government change to get anywhere close. Pre-match the food and beer on offer were unreal.

[workshyfop]

The only similarity is we’ve both got an Immobile striker … (someone had to, I’ll get me coat).

[reverendstarbuck]

I think we under-value our own (UK) fan culture too much.

We still (mostly) watch football in grounds where anyone can start a chant from the back of a terrace. We still lace our chants with humour.

Conversely, too much is made of guys who spend all week painting displays then spend the entire match with their backs to the pitch.

In much of Europe, there is zero relationship between what happens on the pitch and what you hear from the stands, despite the bonds the ultras claim to have with their teams.

And everytime I see the guy with the megaphone holding the crowd in one hand at the end of the game and the team in the other as he orchestrates both.....oh my word I want to vomit.

We just about got it right with the "Wagner " IMO. And the CL, to their credit, seem to still be about getting our own crowd going rather than imposing themselves on it?

[efesodje23]

Are you really comparing us to Lazio?

You'll be comparing Tom Edwards to Tommy Smith next

[rockwall]

End of the day, a lot of the atmosphere side of your post can only be down to us.

We are the ones with the voices to chant. We are the ones to get noise going.

Just means getting more on board to join in with the CSL.

It'd be great of flags etc could be put everywhere and held everywhere too.

[softboy]

To compare a Lazio home game to a Town home game is daft in the extreme. Perhaps next time you do a Europe game you go to watch Almeria v Anydody (they are currently at the bottom of LALiga) and the atmosphere isnt even as good as it was at the JSS last Saturday!

[ben1987]

Nov 6, 2023 18:21:08 GMT 1 rockwall said:

End of the day, a lot of the atmosphere side of your post can only be down to us.

We are the ones with the voices to chant. We are the ones to get noise going.

Just means getting more on board to join in with the CSL.

It'd be great of flags etc could be put everywhere and held everywhere too.

Since Covid, the biggest hurdle the CL has faced with the exception of poor results most weeks has been the lack of interest. There’s about 50 active members who make up the CL14, comparing that to Lazio who are probably around the 5k mark and have years and years behind them is probably a bit different but within that 50, it was once 3 to 4 times bigger than that in terms of lads actively involved in and around the core in the south stand, making displays, doing charity, helping day to day. You only have to look at the south stand now and see how it’s thinned in the last year or two in particular, that gives you an indication of how much it’s dropped off.

There’s often a misconception that the CL14 is the south stand, it’s not. The CL14 is about 50 lads in the south stand. We’ve lost quite a number of it’s members over the years who actually no longer come to the stadium anymore, so it’s not a case that they’ve fallen out of love with the CL14, they’ve fallen out of love with town. I have really close friends who I’ve known years who literally haven’t been for over a year. They’re still big supporters of the CL14, just lost the love for town and the club presently. Like many of the fan base I suppose.

Getting people actively involved isn’t easy, since the loss of the Gas Club it’s even harder. (Kev I know you read this board. Buy it) It’s another hammer blow to the group, it’s another brick wall we have to climb over. The CL14 will be 10 years old in April 2024 and it’s come a long way but it’s getting harder and harder every season currently with keeping fans interested and keeping the group active. As you can see, the group hasn’t produced a large display since the play off semi final against Luton, although that’ll change shortly. When interest drops, less hands make work, harder.

The CL14 are a presence in the south stand and do their best but ultimately the whole fan base is swimming in a different direction to the club at the moment and until a togetherness returns, it’ll continue to be a slog. The group is still very much active but it’s on a much smaller scale now to what it was back in 2016-2019. It needs results on the pitch now.

[reverendstarbuck]

Re: Gas Club, is there any outline of a business plan, or are folk saying "buy it" for the club to own its losses and pay for its upkeep?

Seems to me it would at least need to pay for itself by raking in as much cash as possible for 23+ matches a season.

Would also be amazing to somehow screen away matches in there, plus other big non-Town matches?

I'd also have a merch point in there, selling CL items as well as the club shop stuff.

But then does all that detract from what could/should be happening at the ground?

I suppose if the club owned both, it wouldn't really matter.