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Post by runner76 on Nov 21, 2023 12:48:23 GMT 1
YeH would agree with that.Would potentially look at a loan for right back if the quality was right.Turton coming back provides a decent safety blanket.But Yeh the rest could be topped up with loans.I do think we might struggle on the striker front though to get someone with the needed quality permanently.It’s either someone who isn’t playing at a low end prem club or not playing at a better champ club,or someone who’s performing well lower down who’s at the right age to step up and improve.All those options I reckon would be expensive so that’s why I think be tough. Nobody actually knows how much money we have to spend though which is why January will be interesting. I wouldn't be against a raft of quality loans if it means we have a more significant warchest in the summer. Whomever we sign though absolutely have to improve the starting 11. will be an acid test on what we have to spend AND what the new team are like in terms of contacts and relationships at the PL clubs....
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Post by willo on Nov 21, 2023 13:41:30 GMT 1
League 2 is arguably the strongest that it has been since our promotion year which saw a strong hull side and a mansfield team full of players that went on to play in the championship. Wrexham, Stockport, Mansfield and Nott County all have sizeable budgets and don't necessarily need to sell even if we decided to dip into the lge 2 market. Stockport - Louis Barry (on loan from villa) is a class above lge 2 level Notts county - Macauly Langstaff - Scored 50+ goals in 18 months, I don't think we could afford him Wrexham - Mullin - Scored 50 goals in 18 months; I don't think we could afford him Mansfield - Have a number of players that seems capable at a higher level, Oats, Keiler Dunn, brunt .. I look at some of our 11 and certainly the bench - REG Hudlin Austerfield Edwards Harrat etc These players would not get in the starting 11 of the top 3/4 teams in League 2. Any back up option we have to our 11 wouldn't start in a top league 2 side. I doubt Kasumu would be a regular for the aforementioned sides. We've seen already that League 1 players with quality like Scott Twine will sell for the 5m range. Why would a top end League 1 player come to a side destined for League 1 or a year on year relegation fight? Each year we have had success in recent times, we have had multiple successful EPL loans. Why have we not got any EPL loans this season? There's a direct correlation with the above and success, look at Burnley and Sheff utd last season - full of EPL loans. There was zero attempt to improve the squad this summer, it was again a summer of decreasing the budget when everyone else strengthen. Plymouth spending 1m+ twice Rotherham pushing the boat out too Stoke played us recently and brought dwight gale and the 30m villa striker off the bench! Cov reinvested 20m on players .. Not a single person at town is asking for 5m to be spent, as I've said previously we would've all taken 16th under warnock and spent nothing. Now we're stuck with a manager that has no track record of success other than a very fortunate playoff victory in a weak league 1 and a big budget; and seemingly no willingness to get loans or improve the starting 11. .. We are now stuck in a position where do they back a manager that a large portion of the fans want out? If they're going to stick with him, they have to back him in Jan as the squad is grossly lacking quality and depth. We need an instant injection of quality to the first team, strikers specifically - which won't come cheap. I like the strategy of buying from the lower leagues but now is not the time - we have made this mess and need proven quality. There must be countless Cameron Archer type players willing to come to the championship on loan from the 20 EPL clubs. We need more than youth too, solid, proven championship players. Again, won't come cheap but thats the state we're in after Nagel etc decided to gamble on Moore. I would agree with every word of this, kinda hits the nail on the head. The only thing you haven’t factored in is if we were to part ways with Moore. If he loses the next 2 and then has a terrible start to December, I don’t care what it costs - he should go before he gets anywhere near the January transfer budget.
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Nov 21, 2023 14:08:58 GMT 1
We find ourselves in a very sticky, self-inflicted, situation.
January is never the best time to strengthen successfully when you're struggling, we need to do just enough to survive & use next season as a sounding board for how serious Kev is about us - we need early summer signings of Championship quality, with a couple of punts on non/lower league projects. The squad needs a total overhaul but there is rarely any value in this transfer window.
We will always struggle without Premier League loan signings but we are not an attractive prospect, currently, for the best Premier clubs to send their players to, I think we'd get more Mbete's than Colwills or Chilwells. Premier league loan managers will know we play zero attacking football, with no passing through the thirds & it's also a massive ask for a young couple of inexperienced players to come in & lift a squad that is devoid of pace, skill &, right now, confidence.
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Melc
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,829
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Post by Melc on Nov 21, 2023 16:56:03 GMT 1
We find ourselves in a very sticky, self-inflicted, situation. January is never the best time to strengthen successfully when you're struggling, we need to do just enough to survive & use next season as a sounding board for how serious Kev is about us - we need early summer signings of Championship quality, with a couple of punts on non/lower league projects. The squad needs a total overhaul but there is rarely any value in this transfer window. We will always struggle without Premier League loan signings but we are not an attractive prospect, currently, for the best Premier clubs to send their players to, I think we'd get more Mbete's than Colwills or Chilwells. Premier league loan managers will know we play zero attacking football, with no passing through the thirds & it's also a massive ask for a young couple of inexperienced players to come in & lift a squad that is devoid of pace, skill &, right now, confidence. Why do I feel we have been here before!
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,464
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Post by goodbet on Nov 21, 2023 17:11:00 GMT 1
We find ourselves in a very sticky, self-inflicted, situation. January is never the best time to strengthen successfully when you're struggling, we need to do just enough to survive & use next season as a sounding board for how serious Kev is about us - we need early summer signings of Championship quality, with a couple of punts on non/lower league projects. The squad needs a total overhaul but there is rarely any value in this transfer window. We will always struggle without Premier League loan signings but we are not an attractive prospect, currently, for the best Premier clubs to send their players to, I think we'd get more Mbete's than Colwills or Chilwells. Premier league loan managers will know we play zero attacking football, with no passing through the thirds & it's also a massive ask for a young couple of inexperienced players to come in & lift a squad that is devoid of pace, skill &, right now, confidence. Why do I feel we have been here before! We have, and what happened then? Well not much actually, because we couldn't afford anyone. When we tried to buy a player we turned the fax machine off. Or was it we just ran out of time, I think it was the time we actually tried to buy someone not injured and the mighty Luton came in and the player jumped at the chance!
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Post by duncfost01 on Nov 21, 2023 20:41:36 GMT 1
Nagle has said that we will be active. Over to him to see if he will put his money where it’s needed. If not we will be down by march.
Moore will take the fall, when really he has inherited an awful squad.
Anybody remember what it’s like to score a goal ? No? me neither.
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Post by rockwall on Nov 21, 2023 21:13:33 GMT 1
League 2 is arguably the strongest that it has been since our promotion year which saw a strong hull side and a mansfield team full of players that went on to play in the championship. Wrexham, Stockport, Mansfield and Nott County all have sizeable budgets and don't necessarily need to sell even if we decided to dip into the lge 2 market. Stockport - Louis Barry (on loan from villa) is a class above lge 2 level Notts county - Macauly Langstaff - Scored 50+ goals in 18 months, I don't think we could afford him Wrexham - Mullin - Scored 50 goals in 18 months; I don't think we could afford him Mansfield - Have a number of players that seems capable at a higher level, Oats, Keiler Dunn, brunt .. I look at some of our 11 and certainly the bench - REG Hudlin Austerfield Edwards Harrat etc These players would not get in the starting 11 of the top 3/4 teams in League 2. Any back up option we have to our 11 wouldn't start in a top league 2 side. I doubt Kasumu would be a regular for the aforementioned sides. We've seen already that League 1 players with quality like Scott Twine will sell for the 5m range. Why would a top end League 1 player come to a side destined for League 1 or a year on year relegation fight? Each year we have had success in recent times, we have had multiple successful EPL loans. Why have we not got any EPL loans this season? There's a direct correlation with the above and success, look at Burnley and Sheff utd last season - full of EPL loans. There was zero attempt to improve the squad this summer, it was again a summer of decreasing the budget when everyone else strengthen. Plymouth spending 1m+ twice Rotherham pushing the boat out too Stoke played us recently and brought dwight gale and the 30m villa striker off the bench! Cov reinvested 20m on players .. Not a single person at town is asking for 5m to be spent, as I've said previously we would've all taken 16th under warnock and spent nothing. Now we're stuck with a manager that has no track record of success other than a very fortunate playoff victory in a weak league 1 and a big budget; and seemingly no willingness to get loans or improve the starting 11. .. We are now stuck in a position where do they back a manager that a large portion of the fans want out? If they're going to stick with him, they have to back him in Jan as the squad is grossly lacking quality and depth. We need an instant injection of quality to the first team, strikers specifically - which won't come cheap. I like the strategy of buying from the lower leagues but now is not the time - we have made this mess and need proven quality. There must be countless Cameron Archer type players willing to come to the championship on loan from the 20 EPL clubs. We need more than youth too, solid, proven championship players. Again, won't come cheap but thats the state we're in after Nagel etc decided to gamble on Moore. A shame Mullin never got chance here. I disagree with some of the players mentioned though. REG was a starter for both Swindon and Rotherham when on loan and got 2 promotions with them. I think Harratt is so underrated by many too. He has just come into the squad under shite circumstances, now In my opinion, he would start for teams in League 2. You mention that DM is reluctant to bring in any loans or signings... you do realise he can't bring anyone in until January whether he wanted to or not? His hands are tied with that for another few weeks. Solid, proven championship players means nothing also; waghorn, Lowton and Knockaert to name a few.... all had solid proven careers at this level and above. I don't have an issue with buying from the lower leagues if it got instant impact such as when we signed Wells. It is when we buy from the lower leagues and then use them in the B team or barely at all. The loans I fully agree... mooy, Brown, Palmer, Ward all part of our promotion side.
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COWSHEDPHIL
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Everybody In The Centre Circle!
Posts: 4,004
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Post by COWSHEDPHIL on Nov 21, 2023 23:41:38 GMT 1
League 2 is arguably the strongest that it has been since our promotion year which saw a strong hull side and a mansfield team full of players that went on to play in the championship. Wrexham, Stockport, Mansfield and Nott County all have sizeable budgets and don't necessarily need to sell even if we decided to dip into the lge 2 market. Stockport - Louis Barry (on loan from villa) is a class above lge 2 level Notts county - Macauly Langstaff - Scored 50+ goals in 18 months, I don't think we could afford him Wrexham - Mullin - Scored 50 goals in 18 months; I don't think we could afford him Mansfield - Have a number of players that seems capable at a higher level, Oats, Keiler Dunn, brunt .. I look at some of our 11 and certainly the bench - REG Hudlin Austerfield Edwards Harrat etc These players would not get in the starting 11 of the top 3/4 teams in League 2. Any back up option we have to our 11 wouldn't start in a top league 2 side. I doubt Kasumu would be a regular for the aforementioned sides. We've seen already that League 1 players with quality like Scott Twine will sell for the 5m range. Why would a top end League 1 player come to a side destined for League 1 or a year on year relegation fight? Each year we have had success in recent times, we have had multiple successful EPL loans. Why have we not got any EPL loans this season? There's a direct correlation with the above and success, look at Burnley and Sheff utd last season - full of EPL loans. There was zero attempt to improve the squad this summer, it was again a summer of decreasing the budget when everyone else strengthen. Plymouth spending 1m+ twice Rotherham pushing the boat out too Stoke played us recently and brought dwight gale and the 30m villa striker off the bench! Cov reinvested 20m on players .. Not a single person at town is asking for 5m to be spent, as I've said previously we would've all taken 16th under warnock and spent nothing. Now we're stuck with a manager that has no track record of success other than a very fortunate playoff victory in a weak league 1 and a big budget; and seemingly no willingness to get loans or improve the starting 11. .. We are now stuck in a position where do they back a manager that a large portion of the fans want out? If they're going to stick with him, they have to back him in Jan as the squad is grossly lacking quality and depth. We need an instant injection of quality to the first team, strikers specifically - which won't come cheap. I like the strategy of buying from the lower leagues but now is not the time - we have made this mess and need proven quality. There must be countless Cameron Archer type players willing to come to the championship on loan from the 20 EPL clubs. We need more than youth too, solid, proven championship players. Again, won't come cheap but thats the state we're in after Nagel etc decided to gamble on Moore. A shame Mullin never got chance here. I disagree with some of the players mentioned though. REG was a starter for both Swindon and Rotherham when on loan and got 2 promotions with them. I think Harratt is so underrated by many too. He has just come into the squad under shite circumstances, now In my opinion, he would start for teams in League 2. You mention that DM is reluctant to bring in any loans or signings... you do realise he can't bring anyone in until January whether he wanted to or not? His hands are tied with that for another few weeks. Solid, proven championship players means nothing also; waghorn, Lowton and Knockaert to name a few.... all had solid proven careers at this level and above. I don't have an issue with buying from the lower leagues if it got instant impact such as when we signed Wells. It is when we buy from the lower leagues and then use them in the B team or barely at all. The loans I fully agree... mooy, Brown, Palmer, Ward all part of our promotion side. Harratt not good enough for me. He looks behind the play. Chasing the game at all times. He’s got a good finish. Should have a decent lower league career. Might score loads for us next season in L1 🙈🙈
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Nov 22, 2023 7:58:48 GMT 1
A couple of points
Harratt...christ the lad has scraps to feed off, he needs some service, that said unless he scores he doesn't seem to do much.
Those mooting Mullin and Langstaff or those types, Mullin is a lower league journeyman and with all due respect that's why he never been signed by anyone decent. Langstaff, again, he's been a non league player for most of his career and not a very successful one at that. I would steer clear of players like these.
We sign David Kasumu and Jack Rudoni and another Championship club splash out on Scott Twine. Twine was probably Championship ready whereas Kasumu and Rudoni weren't. I appreciate Twine left aforementioned Championship club to go on loan to another.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2023 9:01:23 GMT 1
League 2 is arguably the strongest that it has been since our promotion year which saw a strong hull side and a mansfield team full of players that went on to play in the championship. Wrexham, Stockport, Mansfield and Nott County all have sizeable budgets and don't necessarily need to sell even if we decided to dip into the lge 2 market. Stockport - Louis Barry (on loan from villa) is a class above lge 2 level Notts county - Macauly Langstaff - Scored 50+ goals in 18 months, I don't think we could afford him Wrexham - Mullin - Scored 50 goals in 18 months; I don't think we could afford him Mansfield - Have a number of players that seems capable at a higher level, Oats, Keiler Dunn, brunt .. I look at some of our 11 and certainly the bench - REG Hudlin Austerfield Edwards Harrat etc These players would not get in the starting 11 of the top 3/4 teams in League 2. Any back up option we have to our 11 wouldn't start in a top league 2 side. I doubt Kasumu would be a regular for the aforementioned sides. We've seen already that League 1 players with quality like Scott Twine will sell for the 5m range. Why would a top end League 1 player come to a side destined for League 1 or a year on year relegation fight? Each year we have had success in recent times, we have had multiple successful EPL loans. Why have we not got any EPL loans this season? There's a direct correlation with the above and success, look at Burnley and Sheff utd last season - full of EPL loans. There was zero attempt to improve the squad this summer, it was again a summer of decreasing the budget when everyone else strengthen. Plymouth spending 1m+ twice Rotherham pushing the boat out too Stoke played us recently and brought dwight gale and the 30m villa striker off the bench! Cov reinvested 20m on players .. Not a single person at town is asking for 5m to be spent, as I've said previously we would've all taken 16th under warnock and spent nothing. Now we're stuck with a manager that has no track record of success other than a very fortunate playoff victory in a weak league 1 and a big budget; and seemingly no willingness to get loans or improve the starting 11. .. We are now stuck in a position where do they back a manager that a large portion of the fans want out? If they're going to stick with him, they have to back him in Jan as the squad is grossly lacking quality and depth. We need an instant injection of quality to the first team, strikers specifically - which won't come cheap. I like the strategy of buying from the lower leagues but now is not the time - we have made this mess and need proven quality. There must be countless Cameron Archer type players willing to come to the championship on loan from the 20 EPL clubs. We need more than youth too, solid, proven championship players. Again, won't come cheap but thats the state we're in after Nagel etc decided to gamble on Moore. A shame Mullin never got chance here. I disagree with some of the players mentioned though. REG was a starter for both Swindon and Rotherham when on loan and got 2 promotions with them. I think Harratt is so underrated by many too. He has just come into the squad under shite circumstances, now In my opinion, he would start for teams in League 2. You mention that DM is reluctant to bring in any loans or signings... you do realise he can't bring anyone in until January whether he wanted to or not? His hands are tied with that for another few weeks. Solid, proven championship players means nothing also; waghorn, Lowton and Knockaert to name a few.... all had solid proven careers at this level and above. I don't have an issue with buying from the lower leagues if it got instant impact such as when we signed Wells. It is when we buy from the lower leagues and then use them in the B team or barely at all. The loans I fully agree... mooy, Brown, Palmer, Ward all part of our promotion side. Sorry, maybe it was written poorly - I mean that the club chose not to push the bring in loan players or any quality in summer. I don't buy that we were in for a number of players and weren't able to secure anyone of any quality. If we don't expect to pay the market price we won't be able to bring int he quality required. I personally wouldn't call Waghorn and Knockaert solid championship quality in 2023 when we signed them - OKnockaert was 10 years off his prime and Waghorn a journeyman that has never been prolific. Lowton had shown far more recently that he was capable however his legs had gone and turned out to be the worst of all of them!
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Post by royrace on Nov 22, 2023 10:26:46 GMT 1
A shame Mullin never got chance here. I disagree with some of the players mentioned though. REG was a starter for both Swindon and Rotherham when on loan and got 2 promotions with them. I think Harratt is so underrated by many too. He has just come into the squad under shite circumstances, now In my opinion, he would start for teams in League 2. You mention that DM is reluctant to bring in any loans or signings... you do realise he can't bring anyone in until January whether he wanted to or not? His hands are tied with that for another few weeks. Solid, proven championship players means nothing also; waghorn, Lowton and Knockaert to name a few.... all had solid proven careers at this level and above. I don't have an issue with buying from the lower leagues if it got instant impact such as when we signed Wells. It is when we buy from the lower leagues and then use them in the B team or barely at all. The loans I fully agree... mooy, Brown, Palmer, Ward all part of our promotion side. Sorry, maybe it was written poorly - I mean that the club chose not to push the bring in loan players or any quality in summer. I don't buy that we were in for a number of players and weren't able to secure anyone of any quality. If we don't expect to pay the market price we won't be able to bring int he quality required. I personally wouldn't call Waghorn and Knockaert solid championship quality in 2023 when we signed them - O Knockaert was 10 years off his prime and Waghorn a journeyman that has never been prolific. Lowton had shown far more recently that he was capable however his legs had gone and turned out to be the worst of all of them!
That's what you get in January and why deciding to use it as a get out of jail free card when the inevitable happens is a very stupid thing to do. I honestly don't think there'll be money made available anyway. I don't think KN has any intention of funding the squad to the levels required in the championship. He and his team have basically said as much on numerous different occasions and proved it in the summer.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,464
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Post by goodbet on Nov 22, 2023 13:35:12 GMT 1
A couple of points Harratt...christ the lad has scraps to feed off, he needs some service, that said unless he scores he doesn't seem to do much. Those mooting Mullin and Langstaff or those types, Mullin is a lower league journeyman and with all due respect that's why he never been signed by anyone decent. Langstaff, again, he's been a non league player for most of his career and not a very successful one at that. I would steer clear of players like these. We sign David Kasumu and Jack Rudoni and another Championship club splash out on Scott Twine. Twine was probably Championship ready whereas Kasumu and Rudoni weren't. I appreciate Twine left aforementioned Championship club to go on loan to another. I agree. While Rudoni seems to have be one of our better players this season before his injury, we can't afford to sign players like him Mullin and Langstaff because we need players that don't need a season to get up to speed. We need players that can improve the team from their first day if we are to stay in this division. This January will be very telling on the direction the new owner is taking us i.e. the three year plan towards the Premier League, League 1 or just staying something like we are now for a few years.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2023 13:53:03 GMT 1
Sorry, maybe it was written poorly - I mean that the club chose not to push the bring in loan players or any quality in summer. I don't buy that we were in for a number of players and weren't able to secure anyone of any quality. If we don't expect to pay the market price we won't be able to bring int he quality required. I personally wouldn't call Waghorn and Knockaert solid championship quality in 2023 when we signed them - O Knockaert was 10 years off his prime and Waghorn a journeyman that has never been prolific. Lowton had shown far more recently that he was capable however his legs had gone and turned out to be the worst of all of them!
That's what you get in January and why deciding to use it as a get out of jail free card when the inevitable happens is a very stupid thing to do. I honestly don't think there'll be money made available anyway. I don't think KN has any intention of funding the squad to the levels required in the championship. He and his team have basically said as much on numerous different occasions and proved it in the summer. Agreed. Done correctly, we got ESr and Grant in January. Likelihood now is Nagle won't put his hand in his pocket after his big mistake, or not to the tune of what's required.
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 23, 2023 13:32:11 GMT 1
A couple of points Harratt...christ the lad has scraps to feed off, he needs some service, that said unless he scores he doesn't seem to do much. Those mooting Mullin and Langstaff or those types, Mullin is a lower league journeyman and with all due respect that's why he never been signed by anyone decent. Langstaff, again, he's been a non league player for most of his career and not a very successful one at that. I would steer clear of players like these. We sign David Kasumu and Jack Rudoni and another Championship club splash out on Scott Twine. Twine was probably Championship ready whereas Kasumu and Rudoni weren't. I appreciate Twine left aforementioned Championship club to go on loan to another. I agree. While Rudoni seems to have be one of our better players this season before his injury, we can't afford to sign players like him Mullin and Langstaff because we need players that don't need a season to get up to speed. We need players that can improve the team from their first day if we are to stay in this division. This January will be very telling on the direction the new owner is taking us i.e. the three year plan towards the Premier League, League 1 or just staying something like we are now for a few years. Tbf, even with needing to get up to speed, he was the only opposition Helik had for PoS
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