menstonterrier
Darren Bullock Terrier
[M0:0]Aye, them were t'days lads
Posts: 978
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Post by menstonterrier on Dec 13, 2023 12:09:53 GMT 1
No he needs to go.
He has been dealt a rough hand - piss poor squad then injuries to key players on top of that - but he shows little tactical awareness or motivational skills.
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Post by townrwe on Dec 13, 2023 12:10:51 GMT 1
He's not going anywhere in the short term... This stinks of Fotheringham again, kept getting given longer, many of the ITK in here said he wasn’t going anywhere and another 3 losses later or so he was gone. It’s not working out, it isn’t going to work out, we’re only going to plunge further into trouble. Get. Rid. Now. Its alot worse than it was under fozza, 5 wins in 21 for the big scot, 2 wins in 14 for Darumb Moore. |
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Post by bblueterrier on Dec 13, 2023 12:17:34 GMT 1
He's not going anywhere in the short term... You've proven yourself to have some decent knowledge on occasion, so I'll trust your judgement here. Can you please share any reason why this is persisting? Do the owners think they know better? I think his appointment was made with the understanding that the squad has many deficiencies so the Jan window would be key. With that in mind they won't get rid without giving him the chance to sign some of his own players. Even Fotheringham had that opportunity last season. The plan IMO is/was to tick along at around a point a game till Jan - I think everyone was expecting us to drop into the bottom 3 by then as QPR in particular were never going to stay there. The only way I could see them getting rid is if he loses all of the games up until the new year - would some "fans" like that to happen so they do pull the trigger? The club is wary of his much acclaimed backroom staff which would take some paying off & significantly reduce the Jan budget. It's not going to end well. |
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Post by harris on Dec 13, 2023 12:25:13 GMT 1
You've proven yourself to have some decent knowledge on occasion, so I'll trust your judgement here. Can you please share any reason why this is persisting? Do the owners think they know better? I think his appointment was made with the understanding that the squad has many deficiencies so the Jan window would be key. With that in mind they won't get rid without giving him the chance to sign some of his own players. Even Fotheringham had that opportunity last season. The plan IMO is/was to tick along at around a point a game till Jan - I think everyone was expecting us to drop into the bottom 3 by then as QPR in particular were never going to stay there. The only way I could see them getting rid is if he loses all of the games up until the new year - would some "fans" like that to happen so they do pull the trigger? The club is wary of his much acclaimed backroom staff which would take some paying off & significantly reduce the Jan budget. It's not going to end well. That’s the thing, I’d rather we give Moore a budget than spend our budget sacking Moore |
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Post by royrace on Dec 13, 2023 12:37:45 GMT 1
And Hoyle is still to be heard chirping away about leaving the club in a better state than he found it. To be fair he left the club in a reasonably healthy state in the end: Championship status confirmed.
Low wage bill, no debt.
Fan base united and excited for the new beginning.
A vastly experienced management team at the helm with a proven track record of over achieving who were happy to continue as long as required.
Another vastly experienced consultant on the books prepared to help with stadium ownership.
KN and his team are responsible for the terrible transfer window and getting rid of the only thing between a weak squad and very likely relegation. Buck stops firmly with them and they need to act fast to avoid the inevitable consequences of their rank bad decision making. |
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Post by townrwe on Dec 13, 2023 12:41:08 GMT 1
I think his appointment was made with the understanding that the squad has many deficiencies so the Jan window would be key. With that in mind they won't get rid without giving him the chance to sign some of his own players. Even Fotheringham had that opportunity last season. The plan IMO is/was to tick along at around a point a game till Jan - I think everyone was expecting us to drop into the bottom 3 by then as QPR in particular were never going to stay there. The only way I could see them getting rid is if he loses all of the games up until the new year - would some "fans" like that to happen so they do pull the trigger? The club is wary of his much acclaimed backroom staff which would take some paying off & significantly reduce the Jan budget. It's not going to end well. That’s the thing, I’d rather we give Moore a budget than spend our budget sacking Moore It should never have got to this position, as we should never have hired him in the first place. If he is appointed as head coach, maybe we should appoint a manager above him. |
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digs
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,141
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Post by digs on Dec 13, 2023 12:43:37 GMT 1
This stinks of Fotheringham again, kept getting given longer, many of the ITK in here said he wasn’t going anywhere and another 3 losses later or so he was gone. It’s not working out, it isn’t going to work out, we’re only going to plunge further into trouble. Get. Rid. Now. Its alot worse than it was under fozza, 5 wins in 21 for the big scot, 2 wins in 14 for Darumb Moore. plus we were on the up before Moore came |
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Dec 13, 2023 12:44:45 GMT 1
You've proven yourself to have some decent knowledge on occasion, so I'll trust your judgement here. Can you please share any reason why this is persisting? Do the owners think they know better? I think his appointment was made with the understanding that the squad has many deficiencies so the Jan window would be key. With that in mind they won't get rid without giving him the chance to sign some of his own players. Even Fotheringham had that opportunity last season. The plan IMO is/was to tick along at around a point a game till Jan - I think everyone was expecting us to drop into the bottom 3 by then as QPR in particular were never going to stay there. The only way I could see them getting rid is if he loses all of the games up until the new year - would some "fans" like that to happen so they do pull the trigger? The club is wary of his much acclaimed backroom staff which would take some paying off & significantly reduce the Jan budget. It's not going to end well. That sounds grim. Why they sanctioned an entirely new back room team for a guy out of work is beyond me. We’ve had three goalkeeper coaches in just over six months. No way this ends well now, it’s either going to be very expensive or we’ll be guaranteed relegation in front of 8k fans. |
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Post by kennyk2 on Dec 13, 2023 12:48:29 GMT 1
I think he'll get a month after the January window closes to get an improvement. If he's going I suspect the earliest will be Feb 24.
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Post by waggers on Dec 13, 2023 12:48:56 GMT 1
Would you trust Cartwright to choose Moore’s replacement and would you trust him with the January transfer window? No. It's a good point. Most didn't want/don't want Moore but the same 'professionals' would be hiring the next manager. They won't sack him, he'll be given a few quid in January we'll be just as atrocious and they might admit they were wrong mid February. By then we're cut adrift and miracles don't happen 2 seasons on the bounce. |
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Post by specialun on Dec 13, 2023 12:49:23 GMT 1
To play devils advocate
Moore came in with 4 sidekicks
Have all 5 got 3 year deals?
Are there any get our clauses (performance / results based) on the 3 year deals which mean we would t be paying off a 3 year contract x 5?
Expensive job to get rid of all of them - so can’t see that happening
How many fewer players can we sign if we get rid?
As bad as yesterday was / as dull as the football as been / as poor as W2 D7 L5 is, as robotic as Moore is, lack ability to change anything outside of 0/45 mins - the squad needs addition’s regardless of who is the manager
I’m not saying he shouldn’t go - question is can we afford to spend what budget we have on sacking Moore & co
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Post by 2ellandback on Dec 13, 2023 12:58:37 GMT 1
So Justaguy, Htafc35, Shortbread Pete, Portugal and one other think he should stay.
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Post by waggers on Dec 13, 2023 13:07:30 GMT 1
To play devils advocate Moore came in with 4 sidekicks Have all 5 got 3 year deals? Are there any get our clauses (performance / results based) on the 3 year deals which mean we would t be paying off a 3 year contract x 5? Expensive job to get rid of all of them - so can’t see that happening How many fewer players can we sign if we get rid? As bad as yesterday was / as dull as the football as been / as poor as W2 D7 L5 is, as robotic as Moore is, lack ability to change anything outside of 0/45 mins - the squad needs addition’s regardless of who is the manager I’m not saying he shouldn’t go - question is can we afford to spend what budget we have on sacking Moore & co It's a fair point but can we afford to pay inflated January prices for players Moore wants? Are we then stuck with these Moore players when he finally goes? We've been stuck with dud players before and the scars remain. |
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Post by townrwe on Dec 13, 2023 13:09:56 GMT 1
To play devils advocate Moore came in with 4 sidekicks Have all 5 got 3 year deals? Are there any get our clauses (performance / results based) on the 3 year deals which mean we would t be paying off a 3 year contract x 5? Expensive job to get rid of all of them - so can’t see that happening How many fewer players can we sign if we get rid? As bad as yesterday was / as dull as the football as been / as poor as W2 D7 L5 is, as robotic as Moore is, lack ability to change anything outside of 0/45 mins - the squad needs addition’s regardless of who is the manager I’m not saying he shouldn’t go - question is can we afford to spend what budget we have on sacking Moore & co In reality, they will have a 6 month or 12 month pay off..... not ideal, but it wont be anywhere near 3 years. |
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Post by harris on Dec 13, 2023 13:15:16 GMT 1
To play devils advocate Moore came in with 4 sidekicks Have all 5 got 3 year deals? Are there any get our clauses (performance / results based) on the 3 year deals which mean we would t be paying off a 3 year contract x 5? Expensive job to get rid of all of them - so can’t see that happening How many fewer players can we sign if we get rid? As bad as yesterday was / as dull as the football as been / as poor as W2 D7 L5 is, as robotic as Moore is, lack ability to change anything outside of 0/45 mins - the squad needs addition’s regardless of who is the manager I’m not saying he shouldn’t go - question is can we afford to spend what budget we have on sacking Moore & co It's a fair point but can we afford to pay inflated January prices for players Moore wants? Are we then stuck with these Moore players when he finally goes? We've been stuck with dud players before and the scars remain. In theory - we have a recruitment team and Sporting Director that will find the players. Moore will be presented with a list of 4 or 5 options by them for a position and he’ll pick, but if - big if - the system we have works, they will all be a good fit & not so much ‘Moore’s players’. |
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Post by space hardware on Dec 13, 2023 13:26:42 GMT 1
In just over a year the club have appointed three absolutely shit managers.
That's quite the achievement.
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Post by Ladaphosen on Dec 13, 2023 13:28:23 GMT 1
In just over a year the club have appointed three absolutely shit managers. That's quite the achievement. buy cheap, buy thrice |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Dec 13, 2023 13:35:56 GMT 1
absolute bull this, anyone who thinks we are in a worse position now than when Dean took over is living in a dream. I really dont like the current performances on the pitch, but to say we are worse is a complete joke. Dean is part of the reason for sure that we are where we are (better than when he took over), Dean is also part of the reason why we still have a club to support and one still at the moment in the championship. I am sure this thread is about our current manager and not our old owner anyway. OK I'll take back my previous comments and admit my mistake: you're definitely HTAFC35 after that post  you would be wrong on this one sorry. |
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Post by Porrohman on Dec 13, 2023 13:36:05 GMT 1
You've proven yourself to have some decent knowledge on occasion, so I'll trust your judgement here. Can you please share any reason why this is persisting? Do the owners think they know better? I think his appointment was made with the understanding that the squad has many deficiencies so the Jan window would be key. With that in mind they won't get rid without giving him the chance to sign some of his own players. Even Fotheringham had that opportunity last season. The plan IMO is/was to tick along at around a point a game till Jan - I think everyone was expecting us to drop into the bottom 3 by then as QPR in particular were never going to stay there. The only way I could see them getting rid is if he loses all of the games up until the new year - would some "fans" like that to happen so they do pull the trigger? The club is wary of his much acclaimed backroom staff which would take some paying off & significantly reduce the Jan budget. It's not going to end well. So they've well and truly fucked up. We've a manager and his staff that are taking us to League 1 and if we get shut, we won't be able to afford the players to give us a chance of stopping up. Wonderful 🤬 |
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Post by Porrohman on Dec 13, 2023 13:38:18 GMT 1
I think he'll get a month after the January window closes to get an improvement. If he's going I suspect the earliest will be Feb 24. Is Steve Davis available, cos we'll need snookers by then 🫣 |
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Post by rockwall on Dec 13, 2023 13:43:14 GMT 1
So we give Moore the Jan window....
If he then gets sacked, we're stuck with his players.
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Post by willo on Dec 13, 2023 13:45:05 GMT 1
I think he'll get a month after the January window closes to get an improvement. If he's going I suspect the earliest will be Feb 24. Absolutely ridiculous if this turns out to be the case. We’ll be bottom 3, likely going down and playing in front of crowds circa 8-9k by then as people will be so pissed off. |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Dec 13, 2023 13:49:58 GMT 1
It is so tricky this one, I really believe what kennyk2 is saying and that DM will be given until middle to late February to have chance to have a squad he is happier with and this is 100% what i have been told. I do wonder if this plan might change however especially with such odd team selections and performances, the fans could have a big say in this and the new ownership / management team may start to feel the pressure to make a change sooner. I am sure discussions with KN, MC & JE have taken place regarding the future of DM and if the continue to back Darren in January or move on sooner. For sure they are all aware of the current feeling around the club and they can also see the performances on the pitch, Mr Nagle comes accross as someone very loyal and someone that would try his best to make it work with the current manager I am just not sure even Kevin can keep wathcing the performances like last night and not act.
Do I want the club to get rid now, after last night I really do I think we have found a nice guy and someone who interviewed well but unfotuanlty seems a little clueless when it comes to match days, time to move on and try and reinvigorate our season.
Do I think the above will happen, yesterday I would have said 100% not at this time, today I am thinking its still 75% chance that DM will still be here come end of January but I now have some doubt in my mind and I believe we will already be sounding out possible replacements in the background as it is really looking like this is not working out.
Getting the full fan base to be behind the clubs choices is something that KN can still acieve with some brave moves, but the longer this goes on then the more difficult it will be to get this support back, I think we need to act fast, admit it hasnt worked out and be strong enough to make the call in the next 48hours IMHO.
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Post by willo on Dec 13, 2023 13:52:03 GMT 1
You've proven yourself to have some decent knowledge on occasion, so I'll trust your judgement here. Can you please share any reason why this is persisting? Do the owners think they know better? I think his appointment was made with the understanding that the squad has many deficiencies so the Jan window would be key. With that in mind they won't get rid without giving him the chance to sign some of his own players. Even Fotheringham had that opportunity last season. The plan IMO is/was to tick along at around a point a game till Jan - I think everyone was expecting us to drop into the bottom 3 by then as QPR in particular were never going to stay there. The only way I could see them getting rid is if he loses all of the games up until the new year - would some "fans" like that to happen so they do pull the trigger? The club is wary of his much acclaimed backroom staff which would take some paying off & significantly reduce the Jan budget. It's not going to end well. I hate seeing us lose so the option of losing every game up until the new year just so that Moore is sacked doesn’t float my boat although I absolutely want him out as he’s stinking out the place at present. I reckon we’ll continue to bump along, pick up the odd draw somewhere down the line and it’ll allow him to see in 2024 in charge but we do have a difficult run of fixtures in front of us. This all boils down now to the board not wanting to lose face by keeping Moore at the helm but at what cost? We played with fire 12 months ago - exactly the same situation - and almost left it too late when getting rid of Fotheringham. Have the club learnt nothing in the short time since? |
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Post by castlehillterrier on Dec 13, 2023 13:55:26 GMT 1
Would you trust Cartwright to choose Moore’s replacement and would you trust him with the January transfer window? Based on his first signing, Edwards, then no. Cartwright is THE mistake. Poor appointment, he’s been away from the British game too long. sorry the above is not correct, Edwards is not a Cartwright signing you need to blame NW and RR for this one, I think the stoke connection has made people put 2+2 together..... For Cartwright the only signing we made that was who he recommended was Burgzorg (someone NW didnt even want!!) I think he looks a good signing so far to me. The appointment of DM and any future replacement is not just down to MC but a team including KN, JE and others pinning the blame on MC only is not in anyway correct. |
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Post by Gag N Bone Man on Dec 13, 2023 13:55:57 GMT 1
I was prepared to give him time until this week. The cumulative effect of watching that second half Saturday and last night's performance has made me conclude he's not right. For us or in the head.
So many reasons. Square pegs in round holes. Baffling substitutions. A distinctive lack of any plan. The fact the players are arguing with each other on the pitch.
Ward was subbed on Saturday when we needed to pinch a winner, and he brought on REG. Baffling.
Ward scores last night and was then subbed, just as we had momentum. The substitution destroyed that momentum.
Wingers as wing backs. Wingers as strikers. Kasumu goes from being the best payer on the park on Saturday to one of the very worst last night.
Koroma, clean through, should pass but then Burgzorg throws his toys out of the pram like a 2 year old, and Koroma is the one to get subbed. Diarra comes on for Ward and so we shift Sorba centrally and play Diarra wide.
The guy has no idea how to manage in-game situations.
I have no confidence in him. And not just that, but the team spirit, the sense of fight and character that Warnock demanded has gone.
Gary Neville was talking about Man Utd the other day, and said that the worst thing for a club is when your fans get bored. I am bored by us. We play god-awful football in a passionless, toothless way. I wouldn't mind but we don't even try to shithouse our way to a result. It's dull as fuck. We must be so easy to defend against, it's unreal.
I say all of this and re-reading before I post, want to point two things out - I don't especially rate Ward. But he's the only real striker we have. And I don't enjoy Warnock's football. But I do respect his pragmatism and standards.
I've seen nothing to suggest that, even with decent backing in the window, Moore knows what to do with players. We have no plan. No creativity. No character. No spine. No teeth. And the worst thing is, we won't get rid yet, even though now is clearly the time - get someone in, give them 5 games to assess before the window opens, let them shop and build.
Heard a podcast with Jaap Stam today - he's available and willing to work outside the top flight. I'd be on the phone now. Done well at 3 out of his 4 clubs. Someone of that standing, intelligent, formidable - that's who we need.
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Post by willo on Dec 13, 2023 13:59:33 GMT 1
I was prepared to give him time until this week. The cumulative effect of watching that second half Saturday and last night's performance has made me conclude he's not right. For us or in the head. So many reasons. Square pegs in round holes. Baffling substitutions. A distinctive lack of any plan. The fact the players are arguing with each other on the pitch. Ward was subbed on Saturday when we needed to pinch a winner, and he brought on REG. Baffling. Ward scores last night and was then subbed, just as we had momentum. The substitution destroyed that momentum. Wingers as wing backs. Wingers as strikers. Kasumu goes from being the best payer on the park on Saturday to one of the very worst last night. Koroma, clean through, should pass but then Burgzorg throws his toys out of the pram like a 2 year old, and Koroma is the one to get subbed. Diarra comes on for Ward and so we shift Sorba centrally and play Diarra wide. The guy has no idea how to manage in-game situations. I have no confidence in him. And not just that, but the team spirit, the sense of fight and character that Warnock demanded has gone. Gary Neville was talking about Man Utd the other day, and said that the worst thing for a club is when your fans get bored. I am bored by us. We play god-awful football in a passionless, toothless way. I wouldn't mind but we don't even try to shithouse our way to a result. It's dull as fuck. We must be so easy to defend against, it's unreal. I say all of this and re-reading before I post, want to point two things out - I don't especially rate Ward. But he's the only real striker we have. And I don't enjoy Warnock's football. But I do respect his pragmatism and standards. I've seen nothing to suggest that, even with decent backing in the window, Moore knows what to do with players. We have no plan. No creativity. No character. No spine. No teeth. And the worst thing is, we won't get rid yet, even though now is clearly the time - get someone in, give them 5 games to assess before the window opens, let them shop and build. Heard a podcast with Jaap Stam today - he's available and willing to work outside the top flight. I'd be on the phone now. Done well at 3 out of his 4 clubs. Someone of that standing, intelligent, formidable - that's who we need. Absolutely brilliant post, sums up perfectly where so many of us are and what so many of us think. And Staam isn’t a bad shout either! |
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htfcterry
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:2]htfcterry
Posts: 3,891
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Post by htfcterry on Dec 13, 2023 14:04:09 GMT 1
It is so tricky this one, I really believe what kennyk2 is saying and that DM will be given until middle to late February to have chance to have a squad he is happier with and this is 100% what i have been told. I do wonder if this plan might change however especially with such odd team selections and performances, the fans could have a big say in this and the new ownership / management team may start to feel the pressure to make a change sooner. I am sure discussions with KN, MC & JE have taken place regarding the future of DM and if the continue to back Darren in January or move on sooner. For sure they are all aware of the current feeling around the club and they can also see the performances on the pitch, Mr Nagle comes accross as someone very loyal and someone that would try his best to make it work with the current manager I am just not sure even Kevin can keep wathcing the performances like last night and not act. Do I want the club to get rid now, after last night I really do I think we have found a nice guy and someone who interviewed well but unfotuanlty seems a little clueless when it comes to match days, time to move on and try and reinvigorate our season. Do I think the above will happen, yesterday I would have said 100% not at this time, today I am thinking its still 75% chance that DM will still be here come end of January but I now have some doubt in my mind and I believe we will already be sounding out possible replacements in the background as it is really looking like this is not working out. Getting the full fan base to be behind the clubs choices is something that KN can still acieve with some brave moves, but the longer this goes on then the more difficult it will be to get this support back, I think we need to act fast, admit it hasnt worked out and be strong enough to make the call in the next 48hours IMHO. Fair post that. |
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Post by detox on Dec 13, 2023 14:04:14 GMT 1
I think he'll get a month after the January window closes to get an improvement. If he's going I suspect the earliest will be Feb 24. that would be the worst possible outcome...DM would add players in January, realise it makes no difference...new guy comes in end of Feb, mid March with about 9 or 10 games left and presumably we're in the drop zone or thereabouts...
Unless we intend to bring in Warnock again, if he's available, I simply cannot see how we are going to stay up. We've had several chances to put distance between us and the bottom 3 but have won just one of 7 home games,scoring just 6 goals.. we've been stuck in 21st place ever since the farcical 1st half at Leeds...there's no sign at all that DM in his 14 games in charge at less than a point a game, is any closer to finding a solution (apart from Sunderland away).
We're heading for around 43 points this season, that'll see us relegated..
I think if KN doesn't sack him now, he'll keep him until seasons end, regardless...and if we do go down he'll likely keep him for another season too...in league one.
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Yuta be a terrier
Andy Booth Terrier
That Gary Taylor fletcher will never make a footballer.....
Posts: 3,653
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Dec 13, 2023 14:07:59 GMT 1
You've proven yourself to have some decent knowledge on occasion, so I'll trust your judgement here. Can you please share any reason why this is persisting? Do the owners think they know better? I think his appointment was made with the understanding that the squad has many deficiencies so the Jan window would be key. With that in mind they won't get rid without giving him the chance to sign some of his own players. Even Fotheringham had that opportunity last season. The plan IMO is/was to tick along at around a point a game till Jan - I think everyone was expecting us to drop into the bottom 3 by then as QPR in particular were never going to stay there. The only way I could see them getting rid is if he loses all of the games up until the new year - would some "fans" like that to happen so they do pull the trigger? The club is wary of his much acclaimed backroom staff which would take some paying off & significantly reduce the Jan budget. It's not going to end well. Millwall away Norwich away Blackburn home Boro home Leicester away. Whether you actively want town to lose them all or not, I'm not seeing a win in there personally. He's blown his chance of retaining some credit through to January by setting up against Bristol and Preston like a Sunday league side. |
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