Moaning and groaning

[Million Dollar Babies]

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

[Teddington Ted]

It may be counter-productive but it’s the fan’s only release. Going home and writing an angry email probably does t offer the same release of emotion and disappointment.

It’s like watching looters smash up the corner shop they’ve shopped at for years and know they will again, as soon as the fire brigade & builders have done their bit.

Logic doesn’t always come into it.

[Moooooy]

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it
but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

I agree with you in a sense, I don’t think abusing individual players is helpful at all. I do think though that fans have the right to air their anger with the performances, results and the general direction of the club. I booed at half time and full time because I’m sick of watching the shit that is being served up week in week out. Collectively they’ve been awful for months, fans have paid their hard earned money to watch this garbage and they’re well within their rights to let folk know we’re not happy with it.

The players, manager, chairman etc are happy to take the adulation of the fans when they’re playing well and winning, so they have to take the disgruntlement of the fans when we’re playing dogshit and not getting results.

[trailingleg]

Why is it always ‘fat middle-aged men’ that get the blame? Plenty of young men around me giving it some. By the way I admit to being fat but I'm actually old aged and have never booed the team in my sixty years of being a fan.

[shawsie]

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

Whilst I get your point ........... football is now a business and in business if you repeatedly fail folks get extremely irate and frustrated with you and quite often the inevitable exit looms.
I genuinely think our fans have been extremely patient having seen the disasters v Cardiff / Leeds / Norwich and again last night - and that's just this season!!!
Last night was beyond pitiful and DM shows absolutely zero sign of having a clue imho - his in game management thus far makes Fotheringham look like Pep!!!

[royrace]

Ah, the Galpharm groan, it is very counter-productive but I can't criticise because I couldn't even be arsed to turn up last night. To be fair its got to the point where audible dissent from the stands is inevitable. I think if I lived next door I'd still have given it a miss.

[terrier10]

I didn’t boo nor did I clap the players at the end.

I just couldn’t be arsed either way and was simply questioning why I’d bothered to give up my evening knowing what was going to happen.

I’m 41, been going since the age of 5 with my Dad. He couldn’t be arsed last night and stayed at home for the 3rd time in 4 games.

My lads who are 14 and 11 both questioned whether will go to next game - this is the issue that is being faced with what is being served up.

I genuinely see better football from my 14 Year Old’s teams.

I only go out of habit at the moment and do not blame anybody who has more sense and chooses to stay away at the moment.

[mosher]

Dec 13, 2023 10:30:06 GMT 1 trailingleg said:

Why is it always ‘fat middle-aged men’ that get the blame? Plenty of young men around me giving it some. By the way I admit to being fat but I'm actually old aged and have never booed the team in my sixty years of being a fan.

Opposite to me, no longer fat (used to be HUGE) but middle aged and I never booed either 

[willo]

We pay our hard earned, reckon you can react how you want, especially so given the current shitshow.

[stevvy]

I rarely boo at half time or full time. Not because I think it's wrong, but more just because I literally can't be arsed

[kennyk2]

Dec 13, 2023 10:17:25 GMT 1 Teddington Ted said:

It may be counter-productive but it’s the fan’s only release. Going home and writing an angry email probably does t offer the same release of emotion and disappointment.

It’s like watching looters smash up the corner shop they’ve shopped at for years and know they will again, as soon as the fire brigade & builders have done their bit.

Logic doesn’t always come into it.

Ah! The old nightmare positive feedback loop then.

[aoftboy]

It wasn’t a good evening by any means but around me there was constant chanting of Moore out, you don’t know what you are doing, etc etc. There was one occasion after about 15 mins when Austerfield gave away a throw in and one guy ran all the way done to the front of the stand to hurl abuse at him. Not sure any of this helps.

[harrythedog]

2 in 12, if that is the answer then what is the question?

Not to go all Oti on everyone but the "2" are the outlier seasons where since promotion in 2012 we have won more games in season than we have lost.

A quick trawl of soccerbase and including cup games and play offs our record since August 2012 is W 170 D 144 L 243. A 30% Win record and those two "outlier" seasons produced 53 wins. In the ten other seasons we have been looking over our shoulders and admittedly two were in the premier league.

No wonder we moan and groan, on top of that we have had two "decent managers", those 2 seasons in an absolute sea of dross.

[Sparrow]

Dec 13, 2023 10:47:23 GMT 1 terrier10 said:

I didn’t boo nor did I clap the players at the end.

I just couldn’t be arsed either way and was simply questioning why I’d bothered to give up my evening knowing what was going to happen.

I’m 41, been going since the age of 5 with my Dad. He couldn’t be arsed last night and stayed at home for the 3rd time in 4 games.

My lads who are 14 and 11 both questioned whether will go to next game - this is the issue that is being faced with what is being served up.

I genuinely see better football from my 14 Year Old’s teams.

I only go out of habit at the moment and do not blame anybody who has more sense and chooses to stay away at the moment.

I'm with you on that one. My lad plays U14s for 2 teams and they both play much much better and much more attacking, entertaining football than Town at the moment.

I'm not one for booing as I don't think it does any good. However, football and sport in general is an emotional thing, and negative emotions do come out......But so do the positive ones, like when we scored and for the short periods both before and after.

[drayltonboy (independent)]

I've never understood why folk get a bit annoyed about stuff they can't control. They must have very empty lives if HTADC is what concerns them most. If it isn't the most important thing, how do they control themselves when things they care about go wrong?

Some folk are just weird

[sabailand]

Dec 13, 2023 15:01:43 GMT 1 harrythedog said:

2 in 12, if that is the answer then what is the question?

Not to go all Oti on everyone but the "2" are the outlier seasons where since promotion in 2012 we have won more games in season than we have lost.

A quick trawl of soccerbase and including cup games and play offs our record since August 2012 is W 170 D 144 L 243. A 30% Win record and those two "outlier" seasons produced 53 wins. In the ten other seasons we have been looking over our shoulders and admittedly two were in the premier league.

No wonder we moan and groan, on top of that we have had two "decent managers", those 2 seasons in an absolute sea of dross.

In the last eleven seasons apart from our two play-off seasons the highest we have finished (in a division) in the other nine seasons is sixteenth, its just a stream of looking over our shoulder and relegation battles with a nice interuption occasionally, although to a lot of town fans its water off a ducks back it does wear you down after a bit.

[sabailand]

Dec 13, 2023 15:18:54 GMT 1 drayltonboy (independent) said:

I've never understood why folk get a bit annoyed about stuff they can't control. They must have very empty lives if HTADC is what concerns them most. If it isn't the most important thing, how do they control themselves when things they care about go wrong?

Some folk are just weird

Much more important things in life i agree, but people can still get annoyed about the small things too, football is a sport with passionate fans who invest time and sometimes a lot of money following their team, if things aren't going well its only natural to voice displeasure.

[mosher]

Dec 13, 2023 15:18:54 GMT 1 drayltonboy (independent) said:

I've never understood why folk get a bit annoyed about stuff they can't control. They must have very empty lives if HTADC is what concerns them most. If it isn't the most important thing, how do they control themselves when things they care about go wrong?

Some folk are just weird

I think because for some people the footy affects their enjoyment of the rest of their activities/day/life.

I used to be the same, but while I still get annoyed at shit results and performances, I've been advised to keep my stress levels low as a defence against Colitis.

Plus, there's a whole thread for things that annoy you.

Although if everyone starts posting on it about the footy it'll surpass the Today's Games thread in a matter of hours 

[bluebeard]

Two guys down at my local only started watching Town in the Wagner promotion season, before that they went usually once a year at Christmas/New year. There were part of the Hoyle out brigade and even disliked Mr Warnock now both of them haven't been for the last 3 games and i told them a few home truths last night and they didn't like it. They can do what they like, but i told them "be careful what you wish for" when they were slating Dean Hoyle. Basically, they are just part timers who go when everything is rosy and we seem to have a few fans like that which is fair enough. The football is terrible at the moment but look at the place we can visit next season, Stevenage, Wycombe, Exeter and Cambridge just to name a few andthey think it's crap now.

[deo1]

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

The only negative in the ground on Tuesday night was Darren Moores tactics.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

The fans have a limit.

I don't have the stats with me - but I think if you look at the last 5 years results for town (Barring Carlos playoff season) we have lost more games than any of the 92 clubs in the EFL.

I think just one year we have a positive goal difference.


It has been a managed decline since the 200m EPL money, 100m parachutes and 100m in player sales went missing.

We're heading to exactly where the clubs deserves to be.

[turbo2]

Dec 14, 2023 16:41:38 GMT 1 @yogi said:

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

The fans have a limit.

I don't have the stats with me - but I think if you look at the last 5 years results for town (Barring Carlos playoff season) we have lost more games than any of the 92 clubs in the EFL.

I think just one year we have a positive goal difference.


It has been a managed decline since the 200m EPL money, 100m parachutes and 100m in player sales went missing.

We're heading to exactly where the clubs deserves to be.

Love it when someone states stats and ignores the ones that disprove the point 😂😂😂😂

[goodbet]

Dec 14, 2023 16:41:38 GMT 1 @yogi said:

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

The fans have a limit.

I don't have the stats with me - but I think if you look at the last 5 years results for town (Barring Carlos playoff season) we have lost more games than any of the 92 clubs in the EFL.

I think just one year we have a positive goal difference.


It has been a managed decline since the 200m EPL money, 100m parachutes and 100m in player sales went missing.

We're heading to exactly where the clubs deserves to be.

It has been more of a miss managed decline.

[townarentbest]

Dec 14, 2023 16:48:33 GMT 1 turbo2 said:

Dec 14, 2023 16:41:38 GMT 1 @yogi said:

The fans have a limit.

I don't have the stats with me - but I think if you look at the last 5 years results for town (Barring Carlos playoff season) we have lost more games than any of the 92 clubs in the EFL.

I think just one year we have a positive goal difference.


It has been a managed decline since the 200m EPL money, 100m parachutes and 100m in player sales went missing.

We're heading to exactly where the clubs deserves to be.

Love it when some states stats and ignores the ones that disprove the point 😂😂😂😂

"If you ignore the season when we got to the play off final and the PL season where we finished higher up the ladder than all bar one season since 1970, then our last five years were rubbish"! 😅😃

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2023 10:36:53 GMT 1 shawsie said:

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

Whilst I get your point ........... football is now a business and in business if you repeatedly fail folks get extremely irate and frustrated with you and quite often the inevitable exit looms.
I genuinely think our fans have been extremely patient having seen the disasters v Cardiff / Leeds / Norwich and again last night - and that's just this season!!!
Last night was beyond pitiful and DM shows absolutely zero sign of having a clue imho - his in game management thus far makes Fotheringham look like Pep!!!

You can't mention Norwich - Warnock was in Charge for that one. Remember it's all DM's fault !

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2023 14:01:23 GMT 1 stevvy said:

I rarely boo at half time or full time. Not because I think it's wrong, but more just because I literally can't be arsed

I'd think about booing if i wasn't asleep.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2023 10:25:57 GMT 1 Moooooy said:

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it
but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

I agree with you in a sense, I don’t think abusing individual players is helpful at all. I do think though that fans have the right to air their anger with the performances, results and the general direction of the club. I booed at half time and full time because I’m sick of watching the shit that is being served up week in week out. Collectively they’ve been awful for months, fans have paid their hard earned money to watch this garbage and they’re well within their rights to let folk know we’re not happy with it.

The players, manager, chairman etc are happy to take the adulation of the fans when they’re playing well and winning, so they have to take the disgruntlement of the fans when we’re playing dogshit and not getting results.

So please tell me your logic behind making the players feel even worse than they do anyway? Did you manage to boo just the ones you felt played badly so the others wouldn't hear, or was your boo directed in such a way that the players knew it was aimed at the manager and not them?

You don't want to clap at the end then fine, don't clap. You want to moan to your mates or on here then that's fine, we all need a tension release, but it is so damn stupid to boo players low on confidence I cannot believe you would come on here and own up to it, and try to justify it.

[rockwall]

Dec 14, 2023 16:41:38 GMT 1 @yogi said:

Dec 13, 2023 10:10:02 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

I get that last night was terrible, as have most performances this season, but I don't understand what fans think it achieves by being so audibly negative during games. You can see it makes certain players go in to their shell and just want to get rid of the ball asap to make it someone else's responsibility and with other players you can see that it makes them just stop trying.

To be fair, if I could hear fat middle aged blokes screaming "YOU'RE EFFING SH*T (INSERT PLAYER NAME)" I think it would stop me from giving it my all.

You can argue they're earning good money and should be able to handle it but they're mainly young lads who just want to enjoy playing football. It's heading in to that confidence death spiral which we saw in the second Premier League season

The fans have a limit.

I don't have the stats with me - but I think if you look at the last 5 years results for town (Barring Carlos playoff season) we have lost more games than any of the 92 clubs in the EFL.

I think just one year we have a positive goal difference.


It has been a managed decline since the 200m EPL money, 100m parachutes and 100m in player sales went missing.

We're heading to exactly where the clubs deserves to be.

If every goal we scored had been chalked off in the last 5 years, barring this season, we would have scored the least in the whole of the football league!!!

[brighousebandbred]

Dec 13, 2023 15:18:54 GMT 1 drayltonboy (independent) said:

I've never understood why folk get a bit annoyed about stuff they can't control. They must have very empty lives if HTADC is what concerns them most. If it isn't the most important thing, how do they control themselves when things they care about go wrong?

Some folk are just weird

Went to the Pne game stayed till the end didn’t boo or chant any nasty songs to our team or DM.
Your post about empty lives , I have many friends some very emotional and passionate about many subjects others more flat line don’t got excited about anything , all very different all good people. It’s what makes the world and people great , with age you become more rounded and grow to appreciate all types of people. 😊 . Not empty lives the people are just passionate about their team , I wasn’t one of them but you saying they are weird is wrong.

[brighousebandbred]

Dec 13, 2023 16:00:15 GMT 1 bluebeard said:

Two guys down at my local only started watching Town in the Wagner promotion season, before that they went usually once a year at Christmas/New year. There were part of the Hoyle out brigade and even disliked Mr Warnock now both of them haven't been for the last 3 games and i told them a few home truths last night and they didn't like it. They can do what they like, but i told them "be careful what you wish for" when they were slating Dean Hoyle. Basically, they are just part timers who go when everything is rosy and we seem to have a few fans like that which is fair enough. The football is terrible at the moment but look at the place we can visit next season, Stevenage, Wycombe, Exeter and Cambridge just to name a few andthey think it's crap now.

Want my team to be playing as high up the pyramid as possible , but seriously as a fan who goes to many away games those are pretty good away days bar Stevenage ( I only say that as I don’t know haven’t visited yet) . 👍