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Post by durhamterrier on Dec 14, 2023 18:05:21 GMT 1
Now I’ve no qualms about promoting talent , however , some recent PL referee appointments were doing league two most of last season . If this is the case, what’s the level the dross we seem to be getting been at ?? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67705029 |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Dec 14, 2023 18:12:11 GMT 1
Sutton United fans have a “relationship” with Sam Allison similar to what Town have with the likes of Paul Tierney, Jon Moss and Tim Robinson. He’s reffed SU many times at NL level and in L2, and whilst he’s undoubtedly improved, he’s all too often been the main talking point in SU games for all the usual wrong reasons.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Dec 14, 2023 20:40:56 GMT 1
There’s definitely some crap Refs around, but the bodies that control them are also to blame here.
They only enforce the laws when it’s 25 yds from each touchline, players often take free kicks in the middle of the park yards away from the offences.
They don’t book players for misconduct, petulance, chucking the ball away etc., half as much as they should do.
For me, if players were brought to book a bit more, the whole thing would just feel a bit better, and we’d probably get 10mins more of football every match (might not be that good for us just now).
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Dec 14, 2023 21:29:10 GMT 1
You can have games without VAR.
You can't have games without refs and linesmen.
We've managed for a century plus with just on-field officials.
They're human; they make mistakes, but get it right most of them time.
We need to turn back then clock because they game is dying on its arse - never mind the fans, just ask the players!
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Dec 14, 2023 22:01:20 GMT 1
You can have games without VAR. You can't have games without refs and linesmen. We've managed for a century plus with just on-field officials. They're human; they make mistakes, but get it right most of them time. We need to turn back then clock because they game is dying on its arse - never mind the fans, just ask the players! Unfortunately I never see any suggestion that VAR could ever be abandoned as a failed experiment. There is no chance that the PL will buck the trend and abandon VAR without other major leagues doing likewise as well as at International level. We now have the ludicrous situation where FAC 3rd round games like Man City v Town will have VAR yet Sunderland v Newcastle will not have it. Give it two more seasons and I bet VAR will be in the Championship as well. The powers that be only seem interested in the occasional instances where the VAR has corrected a bad mistake by the referee. The vast majority of decisions concerning the four most common issues - offsides, hand balls in the penalty area, fouls in the penalty area, and dangerous foul play- are NOT “clear and obvious” and I think the vast majority of fans and players know this. Even after numerous replays they are still not “clear and obvious”. Yet Howard Webb and his cohorts just can’t acknowledge this. Sky loves VAR despite their false indignation. They’ll want to keep it too. Bugger the game, bugger the fans, controversy is what we need. |
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Post by markthehorn on Dec 14, 2023 22:24:37 GMT 1
Quite right .
Most decisions are subjective and down to personal opinion which we had for 100 odd years and all VAR has done is added another layer to that plus creating delays and even more inconsistent .
Trouble is as you the media and clubs almost demanded it and doubt the system will be scrapped now.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Dec 14, 2023 22:36:29 GMT 1
On the subject of VAR and linesmen/women, I’m actually quite impressed how good they are in real time without VAR. There’s the occasional howler, but I reckon percentage wise, they get decisions correct without VAR, somewhere in the high 90’s.
The proliferation of TV analysis and the ability they have to freeze frame stuff, makes the Lino’s appear far worse than they are.
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Post by tepidterrier on Dec 14, 2023 22:51:45 GMT 1
I think the standard of refereeing has improved significantly over the last decade. Very rarely do we get proper shockers who ruin games, seems like it used to happen a lot more regularly up until the Premier league era, unless my mind's playing tricks.
The ref against Bristol City was the worst this season, but nowhere near as bad as we used to get. I think the main issue at the moment is unclear or bullshit rules around what constitutes a penalty. Can't really blame the individual refs either way interpreting to the letter, or using common sense and not interpreting to the letter.
VAR is a different story!
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Post by sabailand on Dec 14, 2023 23:09:57 GMT 1
On the subject of VAR and linesmen/women, I’m actually quite impressed how good they are in real time without VAR. There’s the occasional howler, but I reckon percentage wise, they get decisions correct without VAR, somewhere in the high 90’s. The proliferation of TV analysis and the ability they have to freeze frame stuff, makes the Lino’s appear far worse than they are. Different sport but cricket umpires amaze me at times, for example when they show run outs on the telly the umpires almost always call it right, god knows how the hell they manage it when some are such close calls. |
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Post by mosher on Dec 15, 2023 9:10:11 GMT 1
There’s definitely some crap Refs around, but the bodies that control them are also to blame here. They only enforce the laws when it’s 25 yds from each touchline, players often take free kicks in the middle of the park yards away from the offences. They don’t book players for misconduct, petulance, chucking the ball away etc., half as much as they should do.For me, if players were brought to book a bit more, the whole thing would just feel a bit better, and we’d probably get 10mins more of football every match (might not be that good for us just now). This, and diving although that's more subjective usually. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Dec 15, 2023 12:35:24 GMT 1
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Post by reverendstarbuck on Dec 15, 2023 13:24:15 GMT 1
You can have games without VAR. You can't have games without refs and linesmen. We've managed for a century plus with just on-field officials. They're human; they make mistakes, but get it right most of them time. We need to turn back then clock because they game is dying on its arse - never mind the fans, just ask the players! Totally agree. The biggest issue for me with it is removing that immediate sense of euphoria around a goal. What sets football apart is that there is only one way to score 'points' (unlike eg: rugby) and you may only get to see one in a whole game*, if at all (unlike eg: basketball). That split-second moment in time is absolutely sacred to the game. You used to look across to the linesman if the offside looked tight. Now you're waiting 3 minutes and looking at a big screen. Nobody will ever convince me the game is better off for it. * For Town, substitute 'game' for 'month' |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Dec 15, 2023 16:46:58 GMT 1
You can have games without VAR. You can't have games without refs and linesmen. We've managed for a century plus with just on-field officials. They're human; they make mistakes, but get it right most of them time. We need to turn back then clock because they game is dying on its arse - never mind the fans, just ask the players! Unfortunately I never see any suggestion that VAR could ever be abandoned as a failed experiment. There is no chance that the PL will buck the trend and abandon VAR without other major leagues doing likewise as well as at International level. We now have the ludicrous situation where FAC 3rd round games like Man City v Town will have VAR yet Sunderland v Newcastle will not have it. Give it two more seasons and I bet VAR will be in the Championship as well. The powers that be only seem interested in the occasional instances where the VAR has corrected a bad mistake by the referee. The vast majority of decisions concerning the four most common issues - offsides, hand balls in the penalty area, fouls in the penalty area, and dangerous foul play- are NOT “clear and obvious” and I think the vast majority of fans and players know this. Even after numerous replays they are still not “clear and obvious”. Yet Howard Webb and his cohorts just can’t acknowledge this. Sky loves VAR despite their false indignation. They’ll want to keep it too. Bugger the game, bugger the fans, controversy is what we need. I completely understand that VAR isn't going to go away, Chris - I was simply making the point that on-field officials are an absolute necessity and the game simply cannot function without them, whereas it has managed (successfully) for well over 100 years without the creeping malaise that is VAR. |
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Post by specialun on Dec 15, 2023 17:26:29 GMT 1
I remember a games last season Thomas Brammall was refereeing - and thought he’s had a very good game, we won’t be seeing him again! And quite rightly he’s in the premier league, great career ahead of him
There was another 30? Year old in the premier league at the weekend. I’d never heard of him, Samuel Barrott? Don’t think we’ve ever had him - bu t looks like he’s from West Yorks, ex Halifax town? Is he a town fan?
Good luck to them
But flip side is we get stuck with the crap - You see the older seasoned pay day championship refs typically 40+ who are garbage, just made it to championship on basis of number of games refereed - but know they’re never going to make it bar beyond that it it’d have happened by now!
You can roll them off Jeremy Simpson, Tim Robinson etc
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Dec 15, 2023 18:49:19 GMT 1
I remember a games last season Thomas Brammall was refereeing - and thought he’s had a very good game, we won’t be seeing him again! And quite rightly he’s in the premier league, great career ahead of him There was another 30? Year old in the premier league at the weekend. I’d never heard of him, Samuel Barrott? Don’t think we’ve ever had him - bu t looks like he’s from West Yorks, ex Halifax town? Is he a town fan? Good luck to them But flip side is we get stuck with the crap - You see the older seasoned pay day championship refs typically 40+ who are garbage, just made it to championship on basis of number of games refereed - but know they’re never going to make it bar beyond that it it’d have happened by now! You can roll them off Jeremy Simpson, Tim Robinson etc The same Tim Robinson that is a Greedy League referee this season?  www.premierleague.com/news/3531058 |
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Post by houllierspal on Dec 15, 2023 19:51:34 GMT 1
The frustrating thing is that two of the best young ones are both Town fans
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Post by durhamterrier on Dec 16, 2023 8:48:46 GMT 1
I remember a games last season Thomas Brammall was refereeing - and thought he’s had a very good game, we won’t be seeing him again! And quite rightly he’s in the premier league, great career ahead of him There was another 30? Year old in the premier league at the weekend. I’d never heard of him, Samuel Barrott? Don’t think we’ve ever had him - bu t looks like he’s from West Yorks, ex Halifax town? Is he a town fan? Good luck to them But flip side is we get stuck with the crap - You see the older seasoned pay day championship refs typically 40+ who are garbage, just made it to championship on basis of number of games refereed - but know they’re never going to make it bar beyond that it it’d have happened by now! You can roll them off Jeremy Simpson, Tim Robinson etc Sam went to my high school over in Halifax , year below me but seemed a nice lad . Was a really good footballer but think he got injured and - to be fair to him - chanced refereeing . I want to say he’s a Leeds fan if I’m honest but I’m not 100% sure. |
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Post by impact on Dec 16, 2023 13:59:52 GMT 1
I'm as guilty as anyone at having a go at refs. But if we think that most, or all, refs are poor, isn't it more likely we just don't appreciate how hard a job it actually is?
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,610
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Post by goodbet on Dec 16, 2023 14:23:06 GMT 1
I'm as guilty as anyone at having a go at refs. But if we think that most, or all, refs are poor, isn't it more likely we just don't appreciate how hard a job it actually is? I think that refereeing is harder than anyone thinks after giving it a go. Setting them appart and no one is allowed to critisise them seem to have given some of them that the game is all about them. For that reason they need a good shakeup. |
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