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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 2, 2024 22:02:10 GMT 1
and Warnocks stats for his recent tenure at Town ?
DM's stats are horrendous and while I accept our resources are poor he simply hasn't figured out a way to create a competetive winning side..and delivered a fair amount of dull boring football along the way. There's a big question mark over him being given the transfer window to improve things...because if that fails, we're relegated.
Warcnock - Played = 24... Won = 9..... Draw = 6...... Loss = 9.... Win % = 37.50 Most of those wins came last season though. This season he was 1pt a game same as Moore |
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Jan 2, 2024 22:04:15 GMT 1
Their American owners don't accept mediocrity. Apparently we still do, big month ahead for DM. Totally ďifferent scenario. BRUM gone from 5th to 20th our form has stayed the same as it was under Warnock, 1pt despite having less players available and no strikers. It blows my mind how people can criticise Warnock, he also took 21 points from his last 10 games of last season. Did you forget that part? |
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Post by Amigo on Jan 2, 2024 22:44:36 GMT 1
Totally ďifferent scenario. BRUM gone from 5th to 20th our form has stayed the same as it was under Warnock, 1pt despite having less players available and no strikers. It blows my mind how people can criticise Warnock, he also took 21 points from his last 10 games of last season. Did you forget that part? I don't think anybody is criticising Warnock but last season has been and gone now. Based on this season there's not much more than a fleas bollock of difference between how we're doing before and after the managerial change. |
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Post by markthehorn on Jan 2, 2024 22:54:59 GMT 1
I don't know how legit this is and probably won't last long online I suspect but....
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Post by ACW on Jan 2, 2024 23:04:36 GMT 1
I don't know how legit this is and probably won't last long online I suspect but.... His eldest is 13, and that doesn't sound like a 13 year old. The accent is also suspect considering both his parents are Scousers, and the family live in Cheshire. |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 2, 2024 23:11:12 GMT 1
It blows my mind how people can criticise Warnock, he also took 21 points from his last 10 games of last season. Did you forget that part? I don't think anybody is criticising Warnock but last season has been and gone now. Based on this season there's not much more than a fleas bollock of difference between how we're doing before and after the managerial change. But Colin only had 7 games, Moores had 19. Does anyone think we'd have only got the same points if Colin had stayed til now 🤔 |
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Post by willo on Jan 2, 2024 23:37:37 GMT 1
I don't think anybody is criticising Warnock but last season has been and gone now. Based on this season there's not much more than a fleas bollock of difference between how we're doing before and after the managerial change. But Colin only had 7 games, Moores had 19. Does anyone think we'd have only got the same points if Colin had stayed til now 🤔 I’d stake my life on no. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 3, 2024 1:12:39 GMT 1
Agree entirely, but, over the whole season, 8 from every 7 sees us safe in all bar two daft years when teams went down with 54 points. When we lost 4-0 at home to Norwich, my mate and I remained relaxed about our prospects with Warnock in charge and he was confirming our view when he was so rudely interrupted. We knew that we would generally be a match for most teams on a consistent basis and that there was no-one better to manage us. Now that we've played well for two home games in succession, I really hope that DM can keep it going against Plymouth and thereafter. But with Darren it's hope; with Neil it was expectation. Fotheringham's points per game record over the 20 games he was in charge ( 21 points) would have kept us up if maintained over a full season..yet he was the worst manager of all time who would have definitely got us relegated according to almost everyone on here. Is it one rule for warnock, a different rule for him? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 3, 2024 1:22:27 GMT 1
I don't think anybody is criticising Warnock but last season has been and gone now. Based on this season there's not much more than a fleas bollock of difference between how we're doing before and after the managerial change. But Colin only had 7 games, Moores had 19. Does anyone think we'd have only got the same points if Colin had stayed til now 🤔 I think warnock would have more points now, but not that many more to be honest. Wed probably be a few places higher up. Warnock put this squad together, Moore didnt, and Warnock would have struggled with its lack of strength too. |
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Post by ambryboy on Jan 3, 2024 2:13:37 GMT 1
But Colin only had 7 games, Moores had 19. Does anyone think we'd have only got the same points if Colin had stayed til now 🤔 I think warnock would have more points now, but not that many more to be honest. Wed probably be a few places higher up. Warnock put this squad together, Moore didnt, and Warnock would have struggled with its lack of strength too. You can bet your life that we'd have had at least one more striker available for selection  |
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Post by ritchie on Jan 3, 2024 3:32:11 GMT 1
Never a manager
I could see him being a good assistant, doing drills with players, rubbing off his winning mentality/experience
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 3, 2024 6:19:59 GMT 1
Agree entirely, but, over the whole season, 8 from every 7 sees us safe in all bar two daft years when teams went down with 54 points. When we lost 4-0 at home to Norwich, my mate and I remained relaxed about our prospects with Warnock in charge and he was confirming our view when he was so rudely interrupted. We knew that we would generally be a match for most teams on a consistent basis and that there was no-one better to manage us. Now that we've played well for two home games in succession, I really hope that DM can keep it going against Plymouth and thereafter. But with Darren it's hope; with Neil it was expectation. Fotheringham's points per game record over the 20 games he was in charge ( 21 points) would have kept us up if maintained over a full season..yet he was the worst manager of all time who would have definitely got us relegated according to almost everyone on here. Is it one rule for warnock, a different rule for him? But 7 of Warnocks points came in his last 3 games, he would've got more than 21 points from 20 games. What's Moore got, 17 from 19 🤔. Buzz has competition for his title as worst ever 😉 |
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htfcterry
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Post by htfcterry on Jan 3, 2024 8:05:18 GMT 1
But Colin only had 7 games, Moores had 19. Does anyone think we'd have only got the same points if Colin had stayed til now 🤔 I think warnock would have more points now, but not that many more to be honest. Wed probably be a few places higher up. Warnock put this squad together, Moore didnt, and Warnock would have struggled with its lack of strength too. He really didn’t put this squad together though did he? He was handed a set of players devoid of any confidence and stuck with them. He made the most of what he had. Then there was just 4 additions in the summer. I don’t know what the narrative is of people wanting to berate Warnock, but I wish it would stop. The guy came in and successfully did what he was set out to do, with flying colours. I didn’t see anyone criticising him after Sheffield United at home last season. |
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Post by dezzly on Jan 3, 2024 8:38:09 GMT 1
I think warnock would have more points now, but not that many more to be honest. Wed probably be a few places higher up. Warnock put this squad together, Moore didnt, and Warnock would have struggled with its lack of strength too. He really didn’t put this squad together though did he? He was handed a set of players devoid of any confidence and stuck with them. He made the most of what he had. Then there was just 4 additions in the summer. I don’t know what the narrative is of people wanting to berate Warnock, but I wish it would stop. The guy came in and successfully did what he was set out to do, with flying colours. I didn’t see anyone criticising him after Sheffield United at home last season. I think he did an amazing job when he came in last season…a job that I don’t believe anyone else could have to be honest.Whether it was possible to continue that over a longer period you could debate,personally I don’t think week in week out over half/full season he could have got out of them what he did in a 15 games spell when it was basically do or die. I think the general consensus is that most would have stuck with him until around now.The problem with that is transfers,and from the bits and bobs iv heard that’s pretty much why the decision was made. Now people will argue both ways whether that’s right or not,if I was someone new coming in I probably wouldn’t want to be working with someone who was making life difficult behind the scenes.If one transfer window has been made hard because of him(I don’t know that it has as gospel) you can understand them not wanting to navigate another one in the same circumstances when so much rides on it. Had also heard few bits about fallouts with players around returning from injury and such like.We know he asked ward to play when he was deemed injured last season so it’s not a stretch to imagine that’s true.Again folk will look at that one of two ways but could the relationship have lasted with the players more long term if that was the case and especially with the amount of injuries we have picked up. We will never know in fairness and none of this is an argument for bringing Moore in or his record since. Personally I try move on from what has been and focus on each game as I’m watching it and judge it on that.There has been some ok…some absolute rank bad and some just dull boring stuff. Some games recently have shown some encouraging signs without always getting the result. They aren’t sacking him now that has passed for the time being,he will get players(hopefully the matos one is a sign of things to come generally) and id imagine he at least gets this run of next 4 league games.6 points has to be a minimum. That’s all just my opinion and folk will have others 🤷🏻 |
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Post by mosher on Jan 3, 2024 9:49:39 GMT 1
Sacked and his record was better than Moores so what are we doing allowing him more time. He should’ve been gone weeks ago in my opinion. No it wasnt. Rooney 0.66 points per game Moore 0.89 points per game. Beat me to it Slapps. Was gonna reply to Stiggy that there's a table available (think it was in The Sun) showing points gained since Rooney took over, Brum were on 10, we were 5th bottom with 14. |
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Post by araucaria on Jan 3, 2024 11:14:05 GMT 1
Agree entirely, but, over the whole season, 8 from every 7 sees us safe in all bar two daft years when teams went down with 54 points. When we lost 4-0 at home to Norwich, my mate and I remained relaxed about our prospects with Warnock in charge and he was confirming our view when he was so rudely interrupted. We knew that we would generally be a match for most teams on a consistent basis and that there was no-one better to manage us. Now that we've played well for two home games in succession, I really hope that DM can keep it going against Plymouth and thereafter. But with Darren it's hope; with Neil it was expectation. Fotheringham's points per game record over the 20 games he was in charge ( 21 points) would have kept us up if maintained over a full season..yet he was the worst manager of all time who would have definitely got us relegated according to almost everyone on here. Is it one rule for warnock, a different rule for him? You are right in saying that Fotheringham's points per game record would have kept us up, but he might not have needed the full season. If his last 17 games had produced 17 or 18 points - you have to admit it's a big if - we'd have finished with 45 or 46 points and Reading went down with 44. But Reading had the 6-point deduction and we had to play them at home, so it would have been touch and go. I didn't start this extrapolation bollocks* - you know as well as I do that very few clubs' points tally follows a linear pattern throughout a season - but Warnock, alone among our last 4 managers, gathered points at a far better rate than a point a game, and my bet is that the 7 points out of 9 when he left was just the start of another gathering of points at a rate of better than a point a game. * When posters do this sort of thing, the least they can do is to count league games only. |
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ram
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Post by ram on Jan 3, 2024 11:33:39 GMT 1
It is pointless comparing records of previous managers,to put it into perspective,Town are 1 game away from the relegation places.Sheffield Wednesday are 3 points behind us,they win their next game by more than 2 goals and we lose to Plymouth,we swap places. And my opinion,for what it is worth,is Moore will not get us out again.
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Post by araucaria on Jan 3, 2024 11:38:24 GMT 1
Warcnock - Played = 24... Won = 9..... Draw = 6...... Loss = 9.... Win % = 37.50 Most of those wins came last season though. This season he was 1pt a game same as Moore 8 points from 7 league games. Count the Carabao Cup match if you must but recognise that there are no league points to be had from it and there will be none on Sunday either. Warnock had 8 defeats including the cup. |
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cyberman
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Post by cyberman on Jan 3, 2024 11:39:04 GMT 1
It is pointless comparing records of previous managers,to put it into perspective,Town are 1 game away from the relegation places.Sheffield Wednesday are 3 points behind us,they win their next game by more than 2 goals and we lose to Plymouth,we swap places. And my opinion,for what it is worth,is Moore will not get us out again. and at that point Moore will be gone......hopefully |
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 3, 2024 11:58:50 GMT 1
Totally ďifferent scenario. BRUM gone from 5th to 20th our form has stayed the same as it was under Warnock, 1pt despite having less players available and no strikers. It blows my mind how people can criticise Warnock, he also took 21 points from his last 10 games of last season. Did you forget that part? I don't think it's about criticising Warnock but adding some balance. Warnock's results this season were: P8, W2, D2, L4 Moore's results this season: P19, W3, D8, L8 Yes, Warnock's results were better, but not by much. Bear in mind too that this was after Warnock had had his preseason to prepare the players for how he wanted to play. Then there's the argument that we trust Warnock in the transfer market but not Moore. Why? Surely it's too early to say what Moore would be like in the transfer market. Compare that with the 4 signed under NW. Maxwell was a decent signing. Burgzorg divides opinion but I would say he's been decent as well. But are we going to make the case for Edwards or Wiles? They were Warnock's signings too and they're both shite. Don't get me wrong. I love Neil Warnock. He's the guy who gave me my first ever taste of promotion in 1995. I was there at Brentford which will forever go down as one of the best - if not the best - nights ever as a Town fan. His achievement in keeping us up last season was spectacular. Eclipsed Jacko's Great Escape with an even greater escape. And I'm not convinced by Darren Moore. Never was. To me, Neil Warnock was the safe pair of hands until we could get someone spectacular, and even DM's biggest fans would struggle to promote that narrative. Particularly as there have been some (IMO) far better options come available since. We're frequently dire to watch too, which doesn't help. At least under NW you could lose but it was still fun because he was an entertainer. Looking at both managers' records objectively is not slating Warnock. It's just objectivity. |
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Post by irverino on Jan 3, 2024 12:00:31 GMT 1
Agree entirely, but, over the whole season, 8 from every 7 sees us safe in all bar two daft years when teams went down with 54 points. When we lost 4-0 at home to Norwich, my mate and I remained relaxed about our prospects with Warnock in charge and he was confirming our view when he was so rudely interrupted. We knew that we would generally be a match for most teams on a consistent basis and that there was no-one better to manage us. Now that we've played well for two home games in succession, I really hope that DM can keep it going against Plymouth and thereafter. But with Darren it's hope; with Neil it was expectation. Fotheringham's points per game record over the 20 games he was in charge ( 21 points) would have kept us up if maintained over a full season..yet he was the worst manager of all time who would have definitely got us relegated according to almost everyone on here. Is it one rule for warnock, a different rule for him? I must admit I was still in the Fozza camp right up to the 98th minute equaliser at Hull, had we played Blackpool the Saturday after & won things might have panned out differently. A week later at Coventry when MF's game plan was to nullify (a DM fav term) them I was starting to doubt my support for him, a couple games later (esp rearranged Blackpool) & I knew we had to get rid, Wigan was the final nail......Never mind the repeats on tv, watching Town at the moment certainly has a feeling of 'we've been here before' about it. |
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Post by oneneilwarnock on Jan 3, 2024 12:03:21 GMT 1
It blows my mind how people can criticise Warnock, he also took 21 points from his last 10 games of last season. Did you forget that part? I don't think it's about criticising Warnock but adding some balance. Warnock's results this season were: P8, W2, D2, L4 Moore's results this season: P19, W3, D8, L8 Yes, Warnock's results were better, but not by much. Bear in mind too that this was after Warnock had had his preseason to prepare the players for how he wanted to play. Then there's the argument that we trust Warnock in the transfer market but not Moore. Why? Surely it's too early to say what Moore would be like in the transfer market. Compare that with the 4 signed under NW. Maxwell was a decent signing. Burgzorg divides opinion but I would say he's been decent as well. But are we going to make the case for Edwards or Wiles? They were Warnock's signings too and they're both shite. Don't get me wrong. I love Neil Warnock. He's the guy who gave me my first ever taste of promotion in 1995. I was there at Brentford which will forever go down as one of the best - if not the best - nights ever as a Town fan. His achievement in keeping us up last season was spectacular. Eclipsed Jacko's Great Escape with an even greater escape. And I'm not convinced by Darren Moore. Never was. To me, Neil Warnock was the safe pair of hands until we could get someone spectacular, and even DM's biggest fans would struggle to promote that narrative. Particularly as there have been some (IMO) far better options come available since. We're frequently dire to watch too, which doesn't help. At least under NW you could lose but it was still fun because he was an entertainer. Looking at both managers' records objectively is not slating Warnock. It's just objectivity. Completely agree with all of this post, I would also add that there is no longevity to Warnock, he signs his players as we say and once he goes you are left with players that will only be of use in a Neil Warnock setup. But for what he did last year, and although we had a sluggish start this I am fairly confident in saying we would have more points than we do now. I wish people wouldn't compare him to Darren Moore, in my opinion they are incomparable and it appears some of the players believe so too. |
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Post by twyford on Jan 3, 2024 12:13:35 GMT 1
No it wasnt. Rooney 0.66 points per game Moore 0.89 points per game. Beat me to it Slapps. Was gonna reply to Stiggy that there's a table available (think it was in The Sun) showing points gained since Rooney took over, Brum were on 10, we were 5th bottom with 14. Shame they didn't appoint him a week earlier - I think Eustace's last game might have been their 4-1 win over us. Those 3 points being the current difference between the two clubs. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 3, 2024 12:19:50 GMT 1
I don't think it's about criticising Warnock but adding some balance. Warnock's results this season were: P8, W2, D2, L4 Moore's results this season: P19, W3, D8, L8 Yes, Warnock's results were better, but not by much. Bear in mind too that this was after Warnock had had his preseason to prepare the players for how he wanted to play. Then there's the argument that we trust Warnock in the transfer market but not Moore. Why? Surely it's too early to say what Moore would be like in the transfer market. Compare that with the 4 signed under NW. Maxwell was a decent signing. Burgzorg divides opinion but I would say he's been decent as well. But are we going to make the case for Edwards or Wiles? They were Warnock's signings too and they're both shite. Don't get me wrong. I love Neil Warnock. He's the guy who gave me my first ever taste of promotion in 1995. I was there at Brentford which will forever go down as one of the best - if not the best - nights ever as a Town fan. His achievement in keeping us up last season was spectacular. Eclipsed Jacko's Great Escape with an even greater escape. And I'm not convinced by Darren Moore. Never was. To me, Neil Warnock was the safe pair of hands until we could get someone spectacular, and even DM's biggest fans would struggle to promote that narrative. Particularly as there have been some (IMO) far better options come available since. We're frequently dire to watch too, which doesn't help. At least under NW you could lose but it was still fun because he was an entertainer. Looking at both managers' records objectively is not slating Warnock. It's just objectivity. Completely agree with all of this post, I would also add that there is no longevity to Warnock, he signs his players as we say and once he goes you are left with players that will only be of use in a Neil Warnock setup. But for what he did last year, and although we had a sluggish start this I am fairly confident in saying we would have more points than we do now. I wish people wouldn't compare him to Darren Moore, in my opinion they are incomparable and it appears some of the players believe so too. It's inevitable that people will compare the current manager to the previous one. When DM leaves, his replacement will be compared (favourably or otherwise) with DM. I do agree that it's pointless though. Warnock ain't coming back. I'd also say suggestions that he's done no better than Rooney (who many Town fans wanted here!) are absurd. Rooney had a better squad to work with, fewer injuries and still had a lower points tally. Moore is objectively doing a better job than Rooney! |
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cyberman
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Post by cyberman on Jan 3, 2024 13:18:46 GMT 1
Just out of curiosity which manager has had the best win ratio over the past 50 years - dont quote Herbert C at me please...
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ambryboy
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Post by ambryboy on Jan 3, 2024 13:23:33 GMT 1
Just out of curiosity which manager has had the best win ratio over the past 50 years - dont quote Herbert C at me please... Gerry Murphy? |
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Post by runner76 on Jan 3, 2024 13:24:00 GMT 1
It blows my mind how people can criticise Warnock, he also took 21 points from his last 10 games of last season. Did you forget that part? I don't think it's about criticising Warnock but adding some balance. Warnock's results this season were: P8, W2, D2, L4 Moore's results this season: P19, W3, D8, L8 Yes, Warnock's results were better, but not by much. Bear in mind too that this was after Warnock had had his preseason to prepare the players for how he wanted to play. Then there's the argument that we trust Warnock in the transfer market but not Moore. Why? Surely it's too early to say what Moore would be like in the transfer market. Compare that with the 4 signed under NW. Maxwell was a decent signing. Burgzorg divides opinion but I would say he's been decent as well. But are we going to make the case for Edwards or Wiles? They were Warnock's signings too and they're both shite. Don't get me wrong. I love Neil Warnock. He's the guy who gave me my first ever taste of promotion in 1995. I was there at Brentford which will forever go down as one of the best - if not the best - nights ever as a Town fan. His achievement in keeping us up last season was spectacular. Eclipsed Jacko's Great Escape with an even greater escape. And I'm not convinced by Darren Moore. Never was. To me, Neil Warnock was the safe pair of hands until we could get someone spectacular, and even DM's biggest fans would struggle to promote that narrative. Particularly as there have been some (IMO) far better options come available since. We're frequently dire to watch too, which doesn't help. At least under NW you could lose but it was still fun because he was an entertainer. Looking at both managers' records objectively is not slating Warnock. It's just objectivity. Wasn't Edwards one from Cartwright? (OK, NW as manager....but not sure was his pick?) |
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Post by irverino on Jan 3, 2024 13:27:14 GMT 1
Just out of curiosity which manager has had the best win ratio over the past 50 years - dont quote Herbert C at me please... The great man died 90 years ago this Saturday......Possibly Mick Buxton answer to your question. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 3, 2024 13:43:27 GMT 1
I don't think it's about criticising Warnock but adding some balance. Warnock's results this season were: P8, W2, D2, L4 Moore's results this season: P19, W3, D8, L8 Yes, Warnock's results were better, but not by much. Bear in mind too that this was after Warnock had had his preseason to prepare the players for how he wanted to play. Then there's the argument that we trust Warnock in the transfer market but not Moore. Why? Surely it's too early to say what Moore would be like in the transfer market. Compare that with the 4 signed under NW. Maxwell was a decent signing. Burgzorg divides opinion but I would say he's been decent as well. But are we going to make the case for Edwards or Wiles? They were Warnock's signings too and they're both shite. Don't get me wrong. I love Neil Warnock. He's the guy who gave me my first ever taste of promotion in 1995. I was there at Brentford which will forever go down as one of the best - if not the best - nights ever as a Town fan. His achievement in keeping us up last season was spectacular. Eclipsed Jacko's Great Escape with an even greater escape. And I'm not convinced by Darren Moore. Never was. To me, Neil Warnock was the safe pair of hands until we could get someone spectacular, and even DM's biggest fans would struggle to promote that narrative. Particularly as there have been some (IMO) far better options come available since. We're frequently dire to watch too, which doesn't help. At least under NW you could lose but it was still fun because he was an entertainer. Looking at both managers' records objectively is not slating Warnock. It's just objectivity. Wasn't Edwards one from Cartwright? (OK, NW as manager....but not sure was his pick?) My understanding is that all options are run by the manager. That there's a list of a few players for each position which have (or are believed to have!) the desired traits and the manager picks the ones he wants. If it was down to Cartwright, then presumably it will be in the January window too, so ditching Moore ain't going to change that |
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cyberman
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Post by cyberman on Jan 3, 2024 13:48:25 GMT 1
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