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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2024 15:44:26 GMT 1
We werent already paying the wages of Ward Ruffels and Koroma, ..those three players had left. They werent ours anymore for the squad in 23/24. Negotiations will have taken place with all 3's agents around contracts, wages, fees etc..and whatever was agreed was always going to be ADDED to the budget, not already part of it. The budget allowed us to spend something like £1.2m on Wiles so some money was clearly there for the right player. For whatever reasons, a deal for a striker couldn't get over the line. Warnock has always said whatever strengthens Warnock's position and reputation IMO. Not his fault we didnt sign a striker...( with no mention of letting one go out on loan) ..hes re-signed one of the best full backs in the championship....hed put together a squad capable of challenging for top 6...he didnt understand new signings werent already part of the existing budget...etc etc Honestly, throughout his career most of what he says should be taken with a large dose of salt IMO...hes extremely good at marketing himself. So was Hoyle, you lapped it up when he did it (IMO) Hoyle clearly WASN'T very good at marketing himself!! A bloke who gave the club its best era in over half a century including 2 season in the Prem , charged the fans half the going rate to watch it and who walked away leaving about £40m of his money in the club , is still somehow hated and derided by some!! |
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Post by mosher on Jan 4, 2024 16:01:05 GMT 1
So was Hoyle, you lapped it up when he did it (IMO) Hoyle clearly WASN'T very good at marketing himself!! A bloke who gave the club its best era in over half a century including 2 season in the Prem , charged the fans half the going rate to watch it and who walked away leaving about £40m of his money in the club , is still somehow hated and derided by some!! Whilst I agree broadly with that, his legacy is somewhat tarnished by his post-illness decision-making. Understandable state of affairs when you nearly die obviously but he can't come out of the past 6 years blemish-free IMO I know from personal experience how your mindset can change when you nearly die, but the post-PL decision-making by DH leaves a hell of a lot to be desired. I for one will never vilify him; as you say his tenure has been the most successful comparatively than any other chairman in my time watching. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jan 4, 2024 16:09:33 GMT 1
We were already paying the wages of ward, ruffles and koroma so if he was given a new player budget of say £15k pw in wages you can see how he might have thought that was for new players. Regardless though it should have been made crystal clear by whoever communicated the budget to him. Completely amateurish really to assume he knew without making it clear. The main issue of course seems to be that the budget was way too small to do anything useful with. We werent already paying the wages of Ward Ruffels and Koroma, ..those three players had left. They werent ours anymore for the squad in 23/24. Negotiations will have taken place with all 3's agents around contracts, wages, fees etc..and whatever was agreed was always going to be ADDED to the budget, not already part of it. The budget allowed us to spend something like £1.2m on Wiles so some money was clearly there for the right player. For whatever reasons, a deal for a striker couldn't get over the line. Warnock has always said whatever strengthens Warnock's position and reputation IMO. Not his fault we didnt sign a striker...( with no mention of letting one go out on loan) ..hes re-signed one of the best full backs in the championship....hed put together a squad capable of challenging for top 6...he didnt understand new signings werent already part of the existing budget...etc etc Honestly, throughout his career most of what he says should be taken with a large dose of salt IMO...hes extremely good at marketing himself. I have said it was like getting a child to help out in a sweet shop, having Warnock involved so closely. Warnock is like most people in the public eye, always got one eye on giving out a good sound bite. This is much like Town's management dropping a few words on hear to the bots on here to try and distance themselves from the shambles of a summer window. Dean was good at it as well until his illness then it was just a shambles leading us to where we are now. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jan 4, 2024 16:18:07 GMT 1
So was Hoyle, you lapped it up when he did it (IMO) Hoyle clearly WASN'T very good at marketing himself!! A bloke who gave the club its best era in over half a century including 2 season in the Prem , charged the fans half the going rate to watch it and who walked away leaving about £40m of his money in the club , is still somehow hated and derided by some!! Hoyle was good at marketing himself and we all loved it as well. After his illness, I suppose he decided to change his life and the direction his life was heading and his heart was no longer in it. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2024 16:42:32 GMT 1
Hoyle clearly WASN'T very good at marketing himself!! A bloke who gave the club its best era in over half a century including 2 season in the Prem , charged the fans half the going rate to watch it and who walked away leaving about £40m of his money in the club , is still somehow hated and derided by some!! Hoyle was good at marketing himself and we all loved it as well. After his illness, I suppose he decided to change his life and the direction his life was heading and his heart was no longer in it. The illness almost exactly splits the time when we were winning and successful ( pre illness) and when we were losing and unsuccessful ( post illness) Im not sure his ability at marketing himself altered at all...what altered was the results on the pitch. It youre winning, youre liked and if youre losing, you arent. |
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Post by royrace on Jan 4, 2024 16:44:26 GMT 1
We were already paying the wages of ward, ruffles and koroma so if he was given a new player budget of say £15k pw in wages you can see how he might have thought that was for new players. Regardless though it should have been made crystal clear by whoever communicated the budget to him. Completely amateurish really to assume he knew without making it clear. The main issue of course seems to be that the budget was way too small to do anything useful with. We werent already paying the wages of Ward Ruffels and Koroma, ..those three players had left. They werent ours anymore for the squad in 23/24. Negotiations will have taken place with all 3's agents around contracts, wages, fees etc..and whatever was agreed was always going to be ADDED to the budget, not already part of it. The budget allowed us to spend something like £1.2m on Wiles so some money was clearly there for the right player. For whatever reasons, a deal for a striker couldn't get over the line. Warnock has always said whatever strengthens Warnock's position and reputation IMO. Not his fault we didnt sign a striker...( with no mention of letting one go out on loan) ..hes re-signed one of the best full backs in the championship....hed put together a squad capable of challenging for top 6...he didnt understand new signings werent already part of the existing budget...etc etc Honestly, throughout his career most of what he says should be taken with a large dose of salt IMO...hes extremely good at marketing himself. At the end of the day the budget wasn't sufficient to strengthen the squad, even after the mass exodus. Pretend it was all Warnock's fault if you want. Do you think it's reasonable that resigning the three out of contact players meant there was not enough budget to strengthen the squad such that we could compete in cups and put out a reasonable bench??? Regardless of whether we were still paying them those three were part of the weak squad that was basically relegated the season before and had not been replaced. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to think any player budget was to STRENGTHEN the squad not continue to pay players that were already part of it! The squad was in desperate need of investment and we'd already got rid of a load of players! Here's your new player budget Neil but don't forget you've already spent loads of it by rehiring 3 bang average players you already had last season  It's not difficult to see how relationships became strained and yes I'm well aware that Warnock isn't daft! Doesn't really matter why someone got the wrong end of the stick or who's fault it was, the bigger issue was there was no scope to strengthen sufficiently and we are where we are with a pathetic squad for the level we're competing at in real danger of relegation.... Again. |
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Post by townarentbest on Jan 4, 2024 17:08:58 GMT 1
I'm saying there was no significant difference subjectively - performances under Warnock were pretty crappy (especially this season) - just as performances under DM have seemed pretty crappy (although we seem to have turned a bit of a corner in that regard - the last few games we've given a good go, its been progressive and relatively entertaining). And objectively they're not really comparable - we've effectively had an entirely different set of players available. Warnock didn't have to deal with the keeper situation, had Ruffles, Hogg, Rudoni, Ward etc available for pretty much every game....but, if you really do want to compare them objectively... NW won 2 of 8 games in all competitions this season...which is broadly the return that DM has been maintaining (with an even weaker available squad). I suspect perhaps you (and plenty others for sure) just didn't want rid of NW when he went (or ever), didn't want DM, and are now entrenched - when the real fact is that DM is doing a perfectly ok job given the state of the squad he's had to work with, and even if compared against the most experienced manager there's ever been. So in spite of what I said earlier :- Warnock for me is someone I have always had mixed feelings about. I was a fan of the team he broke up when he first arrived but happy when we got promoted, but I was not too upset that we split ways after the promotion. This time around I and I suspect just about everyone else was happy with last years result when he dragged us to safety. This season we were looking OK not great but we looked like we would be safe. Replacing him with someone who looked like he did not have a clue and only seems to want to play football because he was told too after the attendances dropped and the fans were far from happy. If DM played square pegs in square holes, understood the substitution rules and not stood on the sideline like he was just waiting for a bus he would have helped himself a little bit. In a very much results business he has been running behind the curve from the off and on the basis of his decision making todate I would not have allowed him anywhere near the decisions for any strengthening we desperately need in this window. Finally I just think that if you think they're not really comparable I just don't see how you could make the statement I have highlighted. Thats all fair enough - I'm similar on Warnock historically, and agree that DM hasn't really helped himself in terms of fitting in with what we expect of the manager of Hudds Town, even though most of that stuff that looks like a lack of care/passion/application doesn't *really* matter to anyone other than the fans (& he obviously DOES understand the sub rules 🤷♂️!). And on the final point, I don't think they're fairly comparable periods for the reasons previously stated, which is why I preceded with " but, if you really do want to compare them...", before pointing out that actually they're pretty similar in terms of results this season anyway....which are mainly down to the squad being woefully under par even if you assume best case of no injuries. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jan 4, 2024 17:17:34 GMT 1
Hoyle was good at marketing himself and we all loved it as well. After his illness, I suppose he decided to change his life and the direction his life was heading and his heart was no longer in it. The illness almost exactly splits the time when we were winning and successful ( pre illness) and when we were losing and unsuccessful ( post illness) Im not sure his ability at marketing himself altered at all...what altered was the results on the pitch. It youre winning, youre liked and if youre losing, you arent. You have a point, but you should look a little deeper. It was the turning point of Dean's involvement in Town, from investment to taking back what he could, from explaining himself to not talking and on to NDA agreements. I doubt that I will sway you as you have been a very loyal supporter of Dean from first till last, but we all have different views on things. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2024 17:40:38 GMT 1
We werent already paying the wages of Ward Ruffels and Koroma, ..those three players had left. They werent ours anymore for the squad in 23/24. Negotiations will have taken place with all 3's agents around contracts, wages, fees etc..and whatever was agreed was always going to be ADDED to the budget, not already part of it. The budget allowed us to spend something like £1.2m on Wiles so some money was clearly there for the right player. For whatever reasons, a deal for a striker couldn't get over the line. Warnock has always said whatever strengthens Warnock's position and reputation IMO. Not his fault we didnt sign a striker...( with no mention of letting one go out on loan) ..hes re-signed one of the best full backs in the championship....hed put together a squad capable of challenging for top 6...he didnt understand new signings werent already part of the existing budget...etc etc Honestly, throughout his career most of what he says should be taken with a large dose of salt IMO...hes extremely good at marketing himself. At the end of the day the budget wasn't sufficient to strengthen the squad, even after the mass exodus. Pretend it was all Warnock's fault if you want. Do you think it's reasonable that resigning the three out of contact players meant there was not enough budget to strengthen the squad such that we could compete in cups and put out a reasonable bench??? Regardless of whether we were still paying them those three were part of the weak squad that was basically relegated the season before and had not been replaced. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to think any player budget was to STRENGTHEN the squad not continue to pay players that were already part of it! The squad was in desperate need of investment and we'd already got rid of a load of players! Here's your new player budget Neil but don't forget you've already spent loads of it by rehiring 3 bang average players you already had last season It's not difficult to see how relationships became strained and yes I'm well aware that Warnock isn't daft! Doesn't really matter why someone got the wrong end of the stick or who's fault it was, the bigger issue was there was no scope to strengthen sufficiently and we are where we are with a pathetic squad for the level we're competing at in real danger of relegation.... Again. I havent said it 'was all warnocks fault' but I do think he should probably carry the bulk of the blame. The three re-signings DID strengthen the squad...THEY WERENT PART OF THE SQUAD ANYMORE..THEYD LEFT! You cant make out they werent new signings just because the previous season they'd been here. If we'd signed Hungbo would he have not counted too? We'd just been paying his wages for 5 months after all? No way did warnock really believe that the costs of re-signing them...players signing on fees..agents fees ...  ? fees...wages going forward...had already been included in the budget BEFORE we'd re-signed them! Thats just standard warnock piffle that no one really believes surely! It was his decisions to re-sign all 3...it was his decision to release the players he did...it was his job to find replacements for them..the squad going into the season , feeble as it was, was mainly his concoction...how well he did last season doesnt really change that. the budget ( money available) must have included the £1.2m or whatever it was we spent on Wiles...so why pretend warnock didnt have any money to play with? |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 4, 2024 19:39:46 GMT 1
At the end of the day the budget wasn't sufficient to strengthen the squad, even after the mass exodus. Pretend it was all Warnock's fault if you want. Do you think it's reasonable that resigning the three out of contact players meant there was not enough budget to strengthen the squad such that we could compete in cups and put out a reasonable bench??? Regardless of whether we were still paying them those three were part of the weak squad that was basically relegated the season before and had not been replaced. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to think any player budget was to STRENGTHEN the squad not continue to pay players that were already part of it! The squad was in desperate need of investment and we'd already got rid of a load of players! Here's your new player budget Neil but don't forget you've already spent loads of it by rehiring 3 bang average players you already had last season It's not difficult to see how relationships became strained and yes I'm well aware that Warnock isn't daft! Doesn't really matter why someone got the wrong end of the stick or who's fault it was, the bigger issue was there was no scope to strengthen sufficiently and we are where we are with a pathetic squad for the level we're competing at in real danger of relegation.... Again. I havent said it 'was all warnocks fault' but I do think he should probably carry the bulk of the blame. The three re-signings DID strengthen the squad...THEY WERENT PART OF THE SQUAD ANYMORE..THEYD LEFT! You cant make out they werent new signings just because the previous season they'd been here. If we'd signed Hungbo would he have not counted too? We'd just been paying his wages for 5 months after all? No way did warnock really believe that the costs of re-signing them...players signing on fees..agents fees ... ? fees...wages going forward...had already been included in the budget BEFORE we'd re-signed them! Thats just standard warnock piffle that no one really believes surely! It was his decisions to re-sign all 3...it was his decision to release the players he did...it was his job to find replacements for them..the squad going into the season , feeble as it was, was mainly his concoction...how well he did last season doesnt really change that. the budget ( money available) must have included the £1.2m or whatever it was we spent on Wiles...so why pretend warnock didnt have any money to play with? If resigning those 3 buggered up the budget, would we have been able to afford better replacements for them, which would presumably have cost more 🤷 |
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Post by twyford on Jan 4, 2024 20:07:46 GMT 1
At the end of the day the budget wasn't sufficient to strengthen the squad, even after the mass exodus. Pretend it was all Warnock's fault if you want. Do you think it's reasonable that resigning the three out of contact players meant there was not enough budget to strengthen the squad such that we could compete in cups and put out a reasonable bench??? Regardless of whether we were still paying them those three were part of the weak squad that was basically relegated the season before and had not been replaced. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to think any player budget was to STRENGTHEN the squad not continue to pay players that were already part of it! The squad was in desperate need of investment and we'd already got rid of a load of players! Here's your new player budget Neil but don't forget you've already spent loads of it by rehiring 3 bang average players you already had last season It's not difficult to see how relationships became strained and yes I'm well aware that Warnock isn't daft! Doesn't really matter why someone got the wrong end of the stick or who's fault it was, the bigger issue was there was no scope to strengthen sufficiently and we are where we are with a pathetic squad for the level we're competing at in real danger of relegation.... Again. I havent said it 'was all warnocks fault' but I do think he should probably carry the bulk of the blame. The three re-signings DID strengthen the squad...THEY WERENT PART OF THE SQUAD ANYMORE..THEYD LEFT! You cant make out they werent new signings just because the previous season they'd been here. If we'd signed Hungbo would he have not counted too? We'd just been paying his wages for 5 months after all? No way did warnock really believe that the costs of re-signing them...players signing on fees..agents fees ... ? fees...wages going forward...had already been included in the budget BEFORE we'd re-signed them! Thats just standard warnock piffle that no one really believes surely! It was his decisions to re-sign all 3...it was his decision to release the players he did...it was his job to find replacements for them..the squad going into the season , feeble as it was, was mainly his concoction...how well he did last season doesnt really change that. the budget ( money available) must have included the £1.2m or whatever it was we spent on Wiles...so why pretend warnock didnt have any money to play with? The retained list announcement put out at the end of the season indicated that Ward and Koroma were out of contract but had been offered terms. If you wanted to give Warnock the benefit of the doubt (I'm not sure you do) it is conceivable that he considered those terms were included in the existing salaries budget rather than needing to be taken from the new signings budget. Ruffels though hadn't been offered new terms at that point so would definitely need to have been classed as a new signing. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2024 20:23:39 GMT 1
I havent said it 'was all warnocks fault' but I do think he should probably carry the bulk of the blame. The three re-signings DID strengthen the squad...THEY WERENT PART OF THE SQUAD ANYMORE..THEYD LEFT! You cant make out they werent new signings just because the previous season they'd been here. If we'd signed Hungbo would he have not counted too? We'd just been paying his wages for 5 months after all? No way did warnock really believe that the costs of re-signing them...players signing on fees..agents fees ... ? fees...wages going forward...had already been included in the budget BEFORE we'd re-signed them! Thats just standard warnock piffle that no one really believes surely! It was his decisions to re-sign all 3...it was his decision to release the players he did...it was his job to find replacements for them..the squad going into the season , feeble as it was, was mainly his concoction...how well he did last season doesnt really change that. the budget ( money available) must have included the £1.2m or whatever it was we spent on Wiles...so why pretend warnock didnt have any money to play with? The retained list announcement put out at the end of the season indicated that Ward and Koroma were out of contract but had been offered terms. If you wanted to give Warnock the benefit of the doubt (I'm not sure you do) it is conceivable that he considered those terms were included in the existing salaries budget rather than needing to be taken from the new signings budget. Ruffels though hadn't been offered new terms at that point so would definitely need to have been classed as a new signing. We might have had offers in with various players agents at that time ( not saying we did, but we could have done ) I dont see how you can count any of them in your existing salary budget until they actually sign for the club. What sort of club adds players to the budget that they dont have a contract with? |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 4, 2024 21:03:30 GMT 1
But Colin only had 7 games, Moores had 19. Does anyone think we'd have only got the same points if Colin had stayed til now 🤔 I’d stake my life on no. Certainly haven't forgotten the outstanding outcome under Warnock. I didnt want him to leave when hw did. But i knew it was going to happen, and but I wouldnt stake my life on better results had he stayed longer with the injuries we have had. For example Stoke at home in his last game was awful. |
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Post by irverino on Jan 4, 2024 21:21:56 GMT 1
Tony Mowbray is clear fav to take over at St Andrews @1/3. Plymouth are set announce another scouser as manager, Ian Foster currently assisting Steven Gerrard in Saudis PL & ex England youth coach......Should be in the dugout at JSS next week for his 1st game.
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Post by royrace on Jan 4, 2024 21:49:01 GMT 1
At the end of the day the budget wasn't sufficient to strengthen the squad, even after the mass exodus. Pretend it was all Warnock's fault if you want. Do you think it's reasonable that resigning the three out of contact players meant there was not enough budget to strengthen the squad such that we could compete in cups and put out a reasonable bench??? Regardless of whether we were still paying them those three were part of the weak squad that was basically relegated the season before and had not been replaced. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to think any player budget was to STRENGTHEN the squad not continue to pay players that were already part of it! The squad was in desperate need of investment and we'd already got rid of a load of players! Here's your new player budget Neil but don't forget you've already spent loads of it by rehiring 3 bang average players you already had last season It's not difficult to see how relationships became strained and yes I'm well aware that Warnock isn't daft! Doesn't really matter why someone got the wrong end of the stick or who's fault it was, the bigger issue was there was no scope to strengthen sufficiently and we are where we are with a pathetic squad for the level we're competing at in real danger of relegation.... Again. I havent said it 'was all warnocks fault' but I do think he should probably carry the bulk of the blame. The three re-signings DID strengthen the squad...THEY WERENT PART OF THE SQUAD ANYMORE..THEYD LEFT! You cant make out they werent new signings just because the previous season they'd been here. If we'd signed Hungbo would he have not counted too? We'd just been paying his wages for 5 months after all? No way did warnock really believe that the costs of re-signing them...players signing on fees..agents fees ... ? fees...wages going forward...had already been included in the budget BEFORE we'd re-signed them! Thats just standard warnock piffle that no one really believes surely! It was his decisions to re-sign all 3...it was his decision to release the players he did...it was his job to find replacements for them..the squad going into the season , feeble as it was, was mainly his concoction...how well he did last season doesnt really change that. the budget ( money available) must have included the £1.2m or whatever it was we spent on Wiles...so why pretend warnock didnt have any money to play with? As usual you're being deliberately disingenuous in your argument so there's not much point in discussing. I meant, as you know, that they didn't strengthen the squad that had just played the entire season. Funnily enough I wasn't referencing the squad as it existed for the very short period in between the end of the season and when they were re signed....you know that period when they weren't even training let alone playing matches! I doubt they'd even packed up their gear and as someone has pointed out two of them already had renewal deals on the table. The big problem was the size of the budget, I think that's clear, Nagle himself, Warnock, Edwards and Cartwright have all alluded to the fact that there were issues with the budget! Also I'm not sure who you think we'd have brought in with the money used to resign those three, I doubt they're on mega bucks! Carry on kidding yourself it's all Neil's fault though by all means. I mean it's not like he has any experience of building very successful teams on a shoestring budget! |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 4, 2024 21:56:24 GMT 1
So was Hoyle, you lapped it up when he did it (IMO) Hoyle clearly WASN'T very good at marketing himself!! A bloke who gave the club its best era in over half a century including 2 season in the Prem , charged the fans half the going rate to watch it and who walked away leaving about £40m of his money in the club , is still somehow hated and derided by some!! Only those that have been misinformed and swallowed the guff talked by keyboard warriors. I'd buy the man a pint |
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Post by Henry Mcgee on Jan 4, 2024 22:12:26 GMT 1
We were already paying the wages of ward, ruffles and koroma so if he was given a new player budget of say £15k pw in wages you can see how he might have thought that was for new players. Regardless though it should have been made crystal clear by whoever communicated the budget to him. Completely amateurish really to assume he knew without making it clear. The main issue of course seems to be that the budget was way too small to do anything useful with. We werent already paying the wages of Ward Ruffels and Koroma, ..those three players had left. They werent ours anymore for the squad in 23/24. Negotiations will have taken place with all 3's agents around contracts, wages, fees etc..and whatever was agreed was always going to be ADDED to the budget, not already part of it. The budget allowed us to spend something like £1.2m on Wiles so some money was clearly there for the right player. For whatever reasons, a deal for a striker couldn't get over the line. Warnock has always said whatever strengthens Warnock's position and reputation IMO. Not his fault we didnt sign a striker...( with no mention of letting one go out on loan) ..hes re-signed one of the best full backs in the championship....hed put together a squad capable of challenging for top 6...he didnt understand new signings werent already part of the existing budget...etc etc Honestly, throughout his career most of what he says should be taken with a large dose of salt IMO...hes extremely good at marketing himself. That was the point I stopped believing anything he said. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2024 22:17:08 GMT 1
I havent said it 'was all warnocks fault' but I do think he should probably carry the bulk of the blame. The three re-signings DID strengthen the squad...THEY WERENT PART OF THE SQUAD ANYMORE..THEYD LEFT! You cant make out they werent new signings just because the previous season they'd been here. If we'd signed Hungbo would he have not counted too? We'd just been paying his wages for 5 months after all? No way did warnock really believe that the costs of re-signing them...players signing on fees..agents fees ... ? fees...wages going forward...had already been included in the budget BEFORE we'd re-signed them! Thats just standard warnock piffle that no one really believes surely! It was his decisions to re-sign all 3...it was his decision to release the players he did...it was his job to find replacements for them..the squad going into the season , feeble as it was, was mainly his concoction...how well he did last season doesnt really change that. the budget ( money available) must have included the £1.2m or whatever it was we spent on Wiles...so why pretend warnock didnt have any money to play with? As usual you're being deliberately disingenuous in your argument so there's not much point in discussing. I meant, as you know, that they didn't strengthen the squad that had just played the entire season. Funnily enough I wasn't referencing the squad as it existed for the very short period in between the end of the season and when they were re signed....you know that period when they weren't even training let alone playing matches! I doubt they'd even packed up their gear and as someone has pointed out two of them already had renewal deals on the table. The big problem was the size of the budget, I think that's clear, Nagle himself, Warnock, Edwards and Cartwright have all alluded to the fact that there were issues with the budget! Also I'm not sure who you think we'd have brought in with the money used to resign those three, I doubt they're on mega bucks! Carry on kidding yourself it's all Neil's fault though by all means. I mean it's not like he has any experience of building very successful teams on a shoestring budget! Once again, I havent said I think it was 'all' his fault. Not sure whats disingenuous about understanding that signing players who arent contracted at the club means you are using money set aside to sign players who arent contracted to the club! I think youre pretty gullible if you believe Warnock didnt perfectly understand the money used to sign those three would be coming out of his 'money to sign players' budget. Maybe you also believe Ruffels is one of the best full backs in the division and the squad is strong enough to challenge for a top 6 spot if you believe that one? All three will be amongst our better paid players Id have thought particularly Ward and Koroma. Could we have got better? You sound like you think we couldn't , even with the £1.2 million we went on to spend in that window also in the mix. I think we probably could. Warnocks got loads of experience at building successful sides with little money...hes also gots lots of experience of being sacked when the side he built is struggling. Lets not pretend his long career has been a continual flow of success. |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 4, 2024 22:38:01 GMT 1
As usual you're being deliberately disingenuous in your argument so there's not much point in discussing. I meant, as you know, that they didn't strengthen the squad that had just played the entire season. Funnily enough I wasn't referencing the squad as it existed for the very short period in between the end of the season and when they were re signed....you know that period when they weren't even training let alone playing matches! I doubt they'd even packed up their gear and as someone has pointed out two of them already had renewal deals on the table. The big problem was the size of the budget, I think that's clear, Nagle himself, Warnock, Edwards and Cartwright have all alluded to the fact that there were issues with the budget! Also I'm not sure who you think we'd have brought in with the money used to resign those three, I doubt they're on mega bucks! Carry on kidding yourself it's all Neil's fault though by all means. I mean it's not like he has any experience of building very successful teams on a shoestring budget! Once again, I havent said I think it was 'all' his fault. Not sure whats disingenuous about understanding that signing players who arent contracted at the club means you are using money set aside to sign players who arent contracted to the club! I think youre pretty gullible if you believe Warnock didnt perfectly understand the money used to sign those three would be coming out of his 'money to sign players' budget. Maybe you also believe Ruffels is one of the best full backs in the division and the squad is strong enough to challenge for a top 6 spot if you believe that one? All three will be amongst our better paid players Id have thought particularly Ward and Koroma. Could we have got better? You sound like you think we couldn't , even with the £1.2 million we went on to spend in that window also in the mix. I think we probably could. Warnocks got loads of experience at building successful sides with little money...hes also gots lots of experience of being sacked when the side he built is struggling. Lets not pretend his long career has been a continual flow of success. And Moore has been relegated with 50% of the teams he's managed and is well on the way to making that 75% 🤷 |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 5, 2024 1:30:38 GMT 1
Moore took over the doomed WBA with little over a month of the season to go and caused such a transformation he won the manager of the month award for April! But yeah, they still went down.
He took over Wednesday in march when they were in the relegation places and yeah they still went down too.
He didnt have any involvement in the creation of either of those relegated teams and arriving so late in the season, couldn't add anyone to them.
You going to use those relegations against him now to try and make some sort of point about warnock??
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Post by twyford on Jan 5, 2024 4:22:06 GMT 1
The retained list announcement put out at the end of the season indicated that Ward and Koroma were out of contract but had been offered terms. If you wanted to give Warnock the benefit of the doubt (I'm not sure you do) it is conceivable that he considered those terms were included in the existing salaries budget rather than needing to be taken from the new signings budget. Ruffels though hadn't been offered new terms at that point so would definitely need to have been classed as a new signing. We might have had offers in with various players agents at that time ( not saying we did, but we could have done ) I dont see how you can count any of them in your existing salary budget until they actually sign for the club. What sort of club adds players to the budget that they dont have a contract with? The club said we did www.htafc.com/news/2023/may/202223-retained-list-confirmed/
Personally, I think Warnock was aware of the limitations but it is feasible that he believed he had £xm of wages to negotiate additional contracts over and above those currently offered. If Ward or Koroma hadn't signed then he'd have the wages from those offers to add to the £xm. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 5, 2024 10:22:41 GMT 1
Sorry , I was meaning other players at different clubs, on top of those 3 who'd been here.
Imagine its normal for clubs to start talking to agents in the months leading up to the summer window, especially if the player's going to be out of contract.
Hungbo had been here for 5 months..presumably we'd been paying his wages during that time and a fee to Watford.
By the same logic, if we'd have signed him permanently in the summer warnock wouldn't have thought his wages and all the fees involved wouldn't be coming off his 'money to spend in the summer' budget...because he'd already just been here?
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Post by drumriggend on Jan 5, 2024 10:45:36 GMT 1
Tony Mowbray is clear fav to take over at St Andrews @1/3. Plymouth are set announce another scouser as manager, Ian Foster currently assisting Steven Gerrard in Saudis PL & ex England youth coach......Should be in the dugout at JSS next week for his 1st game. What do yo think you’re doing posting about Rooney on the Rooney thread?? How dare you interrupt the old Hoyle is a kooont/saint argument.. 😜😜 |
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Post by irverino on Jan 5, 2024 11:50:27 GMT 1
Tony Mowbray is clear fav to take over at St Andrews @1/3. Plymouth are set announce another scouser as manager, Ian Foster currently assisting Steven Gerrard in Saudis PL & ex England youth coach......Should be in the dugout at JSS next week for his 1st game. What do yo think you’re doing posting about Rooney on the Rooney thread?? How dare you interrupt the old Hoyle is a kooont/saint argument.. 😜😜 Forgive me, I couldn't find the 'relegation rivals appoint new managers' thread......Not that we should be worried in the slightest, we have DM & will finish 4th bottom, won't we? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 5, 2024 12:22:30 GMT 1
I reckon Tom Brady's always been a big admirer of Mowbray's work.
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Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
Posts: 24,143 
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 5, 2024 14:03:11 GMT 1
When assessing a manager you can only include what they did last season if its warnock, NOT if its Moore. Thems the rules.  Last season when Moore had the best squad and biggest budget in the league below us ? Did he? Look at their current squad, look at the list of departures in summer & tell me how many you'd want here. Bannan aside I can't think of anyone that's a stand-out there. They're doing ok now but that's because they have an outstanding head coach. www.transfermarkt.com/sheffield-wednesday/transfers/verein/1035 |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 5, 2024 15:48:01 GMT 1
Last season when Moore had the best squad and biggest budget in the league below us ? Did he? Look at their current squad, look at the list of departures in summer & tell me how many you'd want here. Bannan aside I can't think of anyone that's a stand-out there. They're doing ok now but that's because they have an outstanding head coach. www.transfermarkt.com/sheffield-wednesday/transfers/verein/1035I couldn't have told you of anyone I'd want from Ipswich or Plymouths, last season, either. |
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Post by irverino on Jan 6, 2024 1:03:36 GMT 1
Tony Mowbray is clear fav to take over at St Andrews @1/3. Plymouth are set announce another scouser as manager, Ian Foster currently assisting Steven Gerrard in Saudis PL & ex England youth coach......Should be in the dugout at JSS next week for his 1st game. Confirmed tonight, Plymouth will be looking to win the 1st away game of the season plus completing the double over Town next Saturday......New manager bounce? Lets hope not. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jan 6, 2024 9:42:53 GMT 1
Steve Morison, ex-Millwall striker and ex-Cardiff manager expected to be named as Sutton United’s manager soon.
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Post by irverino on Jan 6, 2024 11:34:55 GMT 1
Steve Morison, ex-Millwall striker and ex-Cardiff manager expected to be named as Sutton United’s manager soon. A good appointment Morison will have many contacts in the area to strengthen Sutton during January transfers, still a tough task to stay up. League two Notts Co are searching for a new manager with Luke Williams appointed Swansea manager yesterday, if Brum take Mowbray on in the next few days it's possible we could have no manager less teams in the Championship.......But for how long? |
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? fees...wages going forward...had already been included in the budget BEFORE we'd re-signed them!
