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Post by paulmat on Jan 30, 2024 18:10:32 GMT 1
We played against 8 Championship teams under NW this season, and got results that would earn 8 points. Over 29 games, that would extrapolate to ONE more point than we currently have. NW's 1 point theoretical improvement over 29 games doesn't factor in downturn that would inevitably have come from not having Rudoni, Burgzorg, Koroma, Nicholls (and Maxwell), Kasumu, Hogg, and Nakayama available. We are where we are primarily because of the players we've had. Darren Moore isn't incompetent & NW isn't some kind of footballing genius. You've included a cup game against Middlesborough where we played a reserve side and got a man sent off when 1-0 up in order to 'enhance' your argument. Without that, on points per game we'd be 4 points better off than we are now, and 7 points better off on where we'd be based on Moore's points per game if he'd started the season. It's also conviniently overlooking that we'd turned a corner under Warnock with 7 points from his last 3, and that Warnock managed to get 20 points from the final 9 games of the previous season with a similar squad. Given that he did that, while making almost every player look as good if not better than they'd ever looked in a Town shirt, I'd say he is 'some kind of footballing genius'. Darren Moore may not be incompetent, but we saw nothing to prove that otherwise from his 23 games. One final comparison. Both Warnock and Moore took 22 championship games. Neil Warnock 33 points, Darren Moore 20. Put that over the course of a full season, that's 69 points to 42, and based on last season, the difference between joint 6th and joint 23rd. The squad is an issue, injuries are an issue, but to suggest we'd be no better off, or worse off under Warnock is pretty crazy. |
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eric
Chris Hay Terrier
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Post by eric on Jan 30, 2024 19:08:21 GMT 1
I don't think it was a particularly good "plan" anyway.
We should have appointed a long-term manager pre-season.
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 30, 2024 19:12:23 GMT 1
We played against 8 Championship teams under NW this season, and got results that would earn 8 points. Over 29 games, that would extrapolate to ONE more point than we currently have. NW's 1 point theoretical improvement over 29 games doesn't factor in downturn that would inevitably have come from not having Rudoni, Burgzorg, Koroma, Nicholls (and Maxwell), Kasumu, Hogg, and Nakayama available. We are where we are primarily because of the players we've had. Darren Moore isn't incompetent & NW isn't some kind of footballing genius. Oh yes he is...and....oh yes he is |
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Post by wildbillthetownfan on Jan 30, 2024 19:25:15 GMT 1
Patience is a virtue and who knows what we would have been like with more players back from injury. It took Fergie 3 years before he started winning trophies and quite a lot of Liverpool fans said that Klopp wasn't the right man for them and there comes a time when you cant keep changing manager, this will be our sixth appointment in 2 years and what ever happens this season we now need some stability. Burton here we come!!.
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rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by rab030 on Jan 30, 2024 19:32:48 GMT 1
We played against 8 Championship teams under NW this season, and got results that would earn 8 points. Over 29 games, that would extrapolate to ONE more point than we currently have. NW's 1 point theoretical improvement over 29 games doesn't factor in downturn that would inevitably have come from not having Rudoni, Burgzorg, Koroma, Nicholls (and Maxwell), Kasumu, Hogg, and Nakayama available. We are where we are primarily because of the players we've had. Darren Moore isn't incompetent & NW isn't some kind of footballing genius. You've included a cup game against Middlesborough where we played a reserve side and got a man sent off when 1-0 up in order to 'enhance' your argument. Without that, on points per game we'd be 4 points better off than we are now, and 7 points better off on where we'd be based on Moore's points per game if he'd started the season. It's also conviniently overlooking that we'd turned a corner under Warnock with 7 points from his last 3, and that Warnock managed to get 20 points from the final 9 games of the previous season with a similar squad. Given that he did that, while making almost every player look as good if not better than they'd ever looked in a Town shirt, I'd say he is 'some kind of footballing genius'. Darren Moore may not be incompetent, but we saw nothing to prove that otherwise from his 23 games. One final comparison. Both Warnock and Moore took 22 championship games. Neil Warnock 33 points, Darren Moore 20. Put that over the course of a full season, that's 69 points to 42, and based on last season, the difference between joint 6th and joint 23rd. The squad is an issue, injuries are an issue, but to suggest we'd be no better off, or worse off under Warnock is pretty crazy. You might be you might, you might be wrong, but guess what - we will never know. Completely pointless argument that can’t be supported other than suggesting that if anybody disagrees with you they must be crazy. Performed a miracle last season - fact. Had an average start to this season - fact. Appointed Moore - fact. We are in danger of going down unless a new manager improves results quickly - fact. |
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Post by Amigo on Jan 30, 2024 19:38:11 GMT 1
I think timing wise we almost did it right, just the vital part of picking the wrong man to bring in went wrong.
Everyone knew Warnock wasn't staying all season, even Warnock knew that.
In theory, he would oversee the summer and get a decent squad together, have a decent start to the season and then get someone in good time before the January window to help pick players they wanted to add to what we had to fit in to how they wanted to play.
What ended up happening was we had a pretty shit summer window, a very average start, then picked the wrong man to take over.
The plan itself I don't think was terrible but how it worked out obviously was.
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 30, 2024 19:38:27 GMT 1
Patience is a virtue and who knows what we would have been like with more players back from injury. It took Fergie 3 years before he started winning trophies and quite a lot of Liverpool fans said that Klopp wasn't the right man for them and there comes a time when you cant keep changing manager, this will be our sixth appointment in 2 years and what ever happens this season we now need some stability. Burton here we come!!. The legendary managerial triumvirate of Fergie, Klopp and Darren Moore 🤔 |
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Post by townarentbest on Jan 30, 2024 19:51:39 GMT 1
We played against 8 Championship teams under NW this season, and got results that would earn 8 points. Over 29 games, that would extrapolate to ONE more point than we currently have. NW's 1 point theoretical improvement over 29 games doesn't factor in downturn that would inevitably have come from not having Rudoni, Burgzorg, Koroma, Nicholls (and Maxwell), Kasumu, Hogg, and Nakayama available. We are where we are primarily because of the players we've had. Darren Moore isn't incompetent & NW isn't some kind of footballing genius. You've included a cup game against Middlesborough where we played a reserve side and got a man sent off when 1-0 up in order to 'enhance' your argument. Without that, on points per game we'd be 4 points better off than we are now, and 7 points better off on where we'd be based on Moore's points per game if he'd started the season. It's also conviniently overlooking that we'd turned a corner under Warnock with 7 points from his last 3, and that Warnock managed to get 20 points from the final 9 games of the previous season with a similar squad. Given that he did that, while making almost every player look as good if not better than they'd ever looked in a Town shirt, I'd say he is 'some kind of footballing genius'. Darren Moore may not be incompetent, but we saw nothing to prove that otherwise from his 23 games. One final comparison. Both Warnock and Moore took 22 championship games. Neil Warnock 33 points, Darren Moore 20. Put that over the course of a full season, that's 69 points to 42, and based on last season, the difference between joint 6th and joint 23rd. The squad is an issue, injuries are an issue, but to suggest we'd be no better off, or worse off under Warnock is pretty crazy. It wasn't an intentional "enhancement", I spent 30 seconds totting up the results against Championship clubs this season. And what that does show is the futility of comparing, given without that single result, you're putting a case for Warnock managing us to a play off place compared to Moore managing us to relegation. If one result can swing the comparison so significantly then its difficult to argue there's much difference between how they performed this season just as its difficult to argue that there is significant difference compared to how they performed this season. In terms of watching, I much preferred the (few!) better moments of football under Moore this season than the few better moments of football under Warnock, whose approach to football is tedious in the extreme. THANKFULLY - we now have someone elses football to watch, which might also end up being a bit crappy but at least there's something to learn and hopefully enjoy along the way. |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 30, 2024 20:00:14 GMT 1
You've included a cup game against Middlesborough where we played a reserve side and got a man sent off when 1-0 up in order to 'enhance' your argument. Without that, on points per game we'd be 4 points better off than we are now, and 7 points better off on where we'd be based on Moore's points per game if he'd started the season. It's also conviniently overlooking that we'd turned a corner under Warnock with 7 points from his last 3, and that Warnock managed to get 20 points from the final 9 games of the previous season with a similar squad. Given that he did that, while making almost every player look as good if not better than they'd ever looked in a Town shirt, I'd say he is 'some kind of footballing genius'. Darren Moore may not be incompetent, but we saw nothing to prove that otherwise from his 23 games. One final comparison. Both Warnock and Moore took 22 championship games. Neil Warnock 33 points, Darren Moore 20. Put that over the course of a full season, that's 69 points to 42, and based on last season, the difference between joint 6th and joint 23rd. The squad is an issue, injuries are an issue, but to suggest we'd be no better off, or worse off under Warnock is pretty crazy. It wasn't an intentional "enhancement", I spent 30 seconds totting up the results against Championship clubs this season. And what that does show is the futility of comparing, given without that single result, you're putting a case for Warnock managing us to a play off place compared to Moore managing us to relegation. If one result can swing the comparison so significantly then its difficult to argue there's much difference between how they performed this season just as its difficult to argue that there is significant difference compared to how they performed this season. In terms of watching, I much preferred the (few!) better moments of football under Moore this season than the few better moments of football under Warnock, whose approach to football is tedious in the extreme. THANKFULLY - we now have someone elses football to watch, which might also end up being a bit crappy but at least there's something to learn and hopefully enjoy along the way. I enjoyed watching us be competitive and trying to win games. Unfortunately that stopped when Moore took over. |
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Post by paulmat on Jan 30, 2024 20:03:58 GMT 1
You've included a cup game against Middlesborough where we played a reserve side and got a man sent off when 1-0 up in order to 'enhance' your argument. Without that, on points per game we'd be 4 points better off than we are now, and 7 points better off on where we'd be based on Moore's points per game if he'd started the season. It's also conviniently overlooking that we'd turned a corner under Warnock with 7 points from his last 3, and that Warnock managed to get 20 points from the final 9 games of the previous season with a similar squad. Given that he did that, while making almost every player look as good if not better than they'd ever looked in a Town shirt, I'd say he is 'some kind of footballing genius'. Darren Moore may not be incompetent, but we saw nothing to prove that otherwise from his 23 games. One final comparison. Both Warnock and Moore took 22 championship games. Neil Warnock 33 points, Darren Moore 20. Put that over the course of a full season, that's 69 points to 42, and based on last season, the difference between joint 6th and joint 23rd. The squad is an issue, injuries are an issue, but to suggest we'd be no better off, or worse off under Warnock is pretty crazy. It wasn't an intentional "enhancement", I spent 30 seconds totting up the results against Championship clubs this season. And what that does show is the futility of comparing, given without that single result, you're putting a case for Warnock managing us to a play off place compared to Moore managing us to relegation. If one result can swing the comparison so significantly then its difficult to argue there's much difference between how they performed this season just as its difficult to argue that there is significant difference compared to how they performed this season. In terms of watching, I much preferred the (few!) better moments of football under Moore this season than the few better moments of football under Warnock, whose approach to football is tedious in the extreme. THANKFULLY - we now have someone elses football to watch, which might also end up being a bit crappy but at least there's something to learn and hopefully enjoy along the way. To be clear, absolutely not suggesting Warnock would have had us anywhere near the play offs this season, personally think we'd be comfortably lower mid table though. As has been said elsewhere it's a pointless argument as we will never know. I preferred almost everything about Warnock's spell in charge compared to almost everything or Moore's though. Personal preference I guess |
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cuz
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by cuz on Jan 30, 2024 20:21:56 GMT 1
Patience is a virtue and who knows what we would have been like with more players back from injury. It took Fergie 3 years before he started winning trophies and quite a lot of Liverpool fans said that Klopp wasn't the right man for them and there comes a time when you cant keep changing manager, this will be our sixth appointment in 2 years and what ever happens this season we now need some stability. Burton here we come!!. Look at the famous 5 and you have the reason we are looking to get it 6th time lucky! |
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Post by richohtfc on Jan 30, 2024 20:30:42 GMT 1
I think timing wise we almost did it right, just the vital part of picking the wrong man to bring in went wrong. Everyone knew Warnock wasn't staying all season, even Warnock knew that. In theory, he would oversee the summer and get a decent squad together, have a decent start to the season and then get someone in good time before the January window to help pick players they wanted to add to what we had to fit in to how they wanted to play. What ended up happening was we had a pretty shit summer window, a very average start, then picked the wrong man to take over. The plan itself I don't think was terrible but how it worked out obviously was. I agree with this, I always thought the plan with Warnock was that he’d be in charge until the right man for the job was found (potentially the whole season?). Then in walked Moore, this was obviously brought forward after some disagreements with KN. IMO we should have stuck with Warnock until we’d done our proper research/due diligence on the next appointment and maybe we’d be better placed than we are now. It ended up being rushed when they’d put everything in place so there wasn’t any pressure to appoint a new manager. Clearly the new senior management team were under the illusion that the squad at that time were capable of winning more games, it’s a shame that NW had them massively overachieving and then Moore couldn’t manage the same and was also unlucky with injuries etc. Interesting appointment awaits. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Jan 30, 2024 20:45:52 GMT 1
Should have stuck with Fotheringham. We'd be 15 points clear at the top of league one now, the Town absolutely bouncing and ready to do an Ipswich next season
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by Wingman on Jan 30, 2024 20:52:52 GMT 1
Moronic thread of the year but it is only January so may be surpassed. Plan A was Warnock gone by Christmas. It was never the plan for him to be here an entire season. Wow thanks, I certainly would be very happy to win title of ‘Moronic thread of the year’ with my very first attempt! Strange how folk can react differently to threads, some come on with good opinions, different points of view then some just feel the need to have a go. I remember now why this moron stopped posting on here years ago, I’ll slip back under my rock and keep my thoughts to myself but enjoy reading everyone else’s. Laters A pre-requisite to post on here seems to be a thick skin. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else’s so don’t hesitate to post, just be aware everyone is different and will sometimes disagree with your thoughts in a way that maybe isn’t the nicest. Positive end note: you’ve not made any claims to be ITK! |
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Post by richohtfc on Jan 30, 2024 21:09:03 GMT 1
Wow thanks, I certainly would be very happy to win title of ‘Moronic thread of the year’ with my very first attempt! Strange how folk can react differently to threads, some come on with good opinions, different points of view then some just feel the need to have a go. I remember now why this moron stopped posting on here years ago, I’ll slip back under my rock and keep my thoughts to myself but enjoy reading everyone else’s. Laters A pre-requisite to post on here seems to be a thick skin. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else’s so don’t hesitate to post, just be aware everyone is different and will sometimes disagree with your thoughts in a way that maybe isn’t the nicest. Positive end note: you’ve not made any claims to be ITK! Thanks Wingman. Guess it’s just a bit baffling at times, I’ve always been brought up with the idea of welcoming folk in. As we all support the same team, you’d have thought it would be a bit more inclusive. I’ve been reading this forum for years and the cliques are evident!! I’m definitely not ITK, wouldn’t profess to be the new Supernovak (was that his name?). Just here to hopefully enjoy the banter and enjoying reading other people’s opinions. There are some really good posters on this forum with excellent and well written points of view. UTT |
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
Posts: 3,924
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Post by Wingman on Jan 30, 2024 21:49:28 GMT 1
A pre-requisite to post on here seems to be a thick skin. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else’s so don’t hesitate to post, just be aware everyone is different and will sometimes disagree with your thoughts in a way that maybe isn’t the nicest. Positive end note: you’ve not made any claims to be ITK! Thanks Wingman. Guess it’s just a bit baffling at times, I’ve always been brought up with the idea of welcoming folk in. As we all support the same team, you’d have thought it would be a bit more inclusive. I’ve been reading this forum for years and the cliques are evident!! I’m definitely not ITK, wouldn’t profess to be the new Supernovak (was that his name?). Just here to hopefully enjoy the banter and enjoying reading other people’s opinions. There are some really good posters on this forum with excellent and well written points of view. UTT Let things wash over you and get stuck in. You’ll soon have rhino arse cheeks bud. |
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Post by Paphos Terrier on Jan 30, 2024 21:58:42 GMT 1
"We should have stuck to plan A"
And bought St. John and Yeats and kept Shankley.
We might just be saying goodbye to Klopp and his team this summer.
Mistake after mistake after mistake at this club.
Who's next for his head to be put on the chopping block? but give him some tools to play with at least.
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Post by Flowerdisco on Jan 30, 2024 22:22:02 GMT 1
Who knows why Warnock left/got sacked etc etc . Maybe we would have more points/ maybe not.
What I would suggest was it would definitely have been more entertaining.
Anyway that ship has sailed, will be interesting to see what the current regime say about the new man/woman.
All I will say is please don't write the
New Manager off whoever it is as this won't help matters, we need to unite and get us through this season with our heads above water.
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Post by softboy on Jan 30, 2024 23:00:47 GMT 1
The results were better, I agree, but the football was no better than it is now.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jan 31, 2024 20:00:11 GMT 1
Patience is a virtue and who knows what we would have been like with more players back from injury. It took Fergie 3 years before he started winning trophies and quite a lot of Liverpool fans said that Klopp wasn't the right man for them and there comes a time when you cant keep changing manager, this will be our sixth appointment in 2 years and what ever happens this season we now need some stability. Burton here we come!!. Stability is good, I agree, but Moore would have us stable at the bottom end of the table at best. Fergie was a winner in Europe before he went to Man U. The manager / head coach is the most important person in the club and if we are to be successful we need to get the right person in the position. If it means we have to get rid of another three after 8 games apiece, better that than give someone like Moore so many games to take us towards the bottom. |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 31, 2024 23:12:10 GMT 1
The results were better, I agree, but the football was no better than it is now. Always more enjoyable when you're trying to win rather than trying not to lose. |
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araucaria
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Post by araucaria on Feb 1, 2024 0:55:38 GMT 1
Of course we'll never know what would have happened if Warnock had stayed longer, but how many times did he do better in his second season than he'd done in his first? Not everywhere he's been, but often enough for it to be a safe bet that he would do it. He even did it here first time round and was still doing it at Cardiff more than two decades later.
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Post by mosher on Feb 1, 2024 11:38:39 GMT 1
Patience is a virtue and who knows what we would have been like with more players back from injury. It took Fergie 3 years before he started winning trophies and quite a lot of Liverpool fans said that Klopp wasn't the right man for them and there comes a time when you cant keep changing manager, this will be our sixth appointment in 2 years and what ever happens this season we now need some stability. Burton here we come!!. Actually it took him 4 years to win anything at Manure (joined 86 won FA Cup 90). But he'd already shown at Aberdeen he had something about him. Still makes me laugh when Manure fans think they've ALWAYS been successful. Gonna be AT LEAST another 26 years between titles for their deluded fans  |
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