|
|
Post by blackmoreisgod on Apr 28, 2024 9:06:02 GMT 1
Trouble is Hoyle tried to do things on the cheap signing players & coaches as development projects - when you've appointed the likes of Siewert, Schofield and Fotheringham you've got a high degree of culpability None of those were in charge when he left. They're completely irrelevant to the position we find ourselves in. I completely disagree. The position we are in is part of a long term trend - 5 years of underinvestment/mis-placed investment - bringing in people like Siewert & Fotheringham who couldn't develop themselves into their jobs never mind develop the players. And let's just remember relegation could so very easily have happened last season before Nagle took over - only the Warnock miracle prevented it. If we'd have stuck to Hoyle's choice Fotheringham any longer we would have gone down last season. The foundations for our demise were laid in the Hoyle era. Saying all that doesn't absolve Nagle of any responsibility - his decisions significantly exacerbated an already weak position. It's fair to say he inherited a weak squad - both technically and mentally - and his signings largely did nothing or very little to improve on that. |
|
alex
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:14]
Posts: 1,741
|
Post by alex on Apr 28, 2024 12:06:37 GMT 1
Have you heard the post interview? He said most of the team are not interested?  ? |
|
|
|
Post by blackmoreisgod on Apr 28, 2024 12:13:58 GMT 1
Have you heard the post interview? He said most of the team are not interested? ? I wonder how much of that is deflection for his own failings? And how much is some of the players having been through relegation scraps before just not having the emotional resillience to go through another one? |
|
|
|
Post by paderbornterrier on Apr 28, 2024 13:20:29 GMT 1
Cartwright 100% he has directed football operations to complete failure.
|
|
rab030
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 448
|
Post by rab030 on Apr 28, 2024 15:37:36 GMT 1
Can’t believe we are not pointing the finger at the players - full stop.
They have proved at different times they can play but most weeks we have witnessed a lack lustre squad going through the motions.
4 managers have failed to get any consistency.
With the odd exception most of them won’t play championship football ever again - yet they think they are something special.
Their attitude stinks and it’s finally come home to bite them.
Unfortunately, we will still have to watch them next year as nobody else will want them.
Rudoni, Helik and maybe Thomas (albeit he did fuck all at Blackburn) might find themselves a championship club but I’m not convinced.
|
|
|
|
Post by isitjustme on Apr 28, 2024 16:26:15 GMT 1
Obviously never wanted this to have happened, but maybe this was the only way to convince our owner just how poor we are at Championship level. The position of strength quote confirmed their grasp of the situation. Warnock papered over so many cracks....!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Horney Barry on Apr 28, 2024 20:23:04 GMT 1
Years of underinvestment has caught up with us. Then the clowns making the underinvestment.
Then it would be Hoyle who was above that. But he took us higher than we thought we would have been.
Nagle has trusted JE and MC who have continued to make mistakes. He’s been let down and poorly advised.
Nagle has put money into the transfer kitty and shouldn’t get any stick like he is doing.
The players are not good enough because of the above.
|
|
|
|
Post by irverino on Apr 29, 2024 10:31:35 GMT 1
Was it division amongst the players that was a main factor the season turned out like it did? I remember one poster on here saying he saw 3 Town players in a party mood at a off licence buying alcohol (Rum & coke) on the way back from Hull away......Splits in the camp are hugely damaging & you need a strong manager to route out the problem & nip it in the bud asap, the comments from AB are not good & adds more questions to DM shocking tenure.
|
|
|
|
Post by griffa on Apr 29, 2024 11:02:19 GMT 1
Dean Hoyle was fantastic in the early days, unfortunately after his illness & relegation, he made many, many mistakes.
Selling to his mate big Phil, went wrong, he returned & failed to invest in the club! Leading to Carlos jumping ship & relegation, a sorry tale of woe!
Kevin Nagle too made many mistakes, sacking Neil & Ronnie, we need to reset & go again next season - UTT.
|
|
|
|
Post by exberlinerterrier on Apr 29, 2024 11:07:57 GMT 1
I would have to pick three options.
- I think the players have let themselves down (with the caveat that they're not good enough)
- I think on the whole we've recruited poorly
- I think we're suffering from underinvestment from our previous owners (Nagle, yes, to some extent, but more from the Hodgkinson/Hoyle fiasco era). I also think it's fair to say that this underinvestment has by and large contributed to poor recruitment and the players not being good enough. It's all interlinked, and all factors are interdependent.
|
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Apr 29, 2024 11:19:56 GMT 1
Are we looking to conduct a fact based research into events in order to be better placed to make the right calls in the future, or are we looking to nail this on one person as an act of vituperation?
Personally, I think the former is more useful and that it harks back to Senor Corberan's departure. It was clearly a sequence of poor calls then that led us to where we are now...
No plan B for when Corberan left.
No plan A to try and keep him (?)
A botched effort, effectively a "swing and hope" attempt at putting Danny Schofield in charge.
As so it continues.... if Big Kev has anything about him, he will have had contingency plans for dealing with relegation and is currently making sure that his staff are working them through.
Time will tell?
|
|
|
|
Post by waggers on Apr 29, 2024 11:25:34 GMT 1
Voted Moore initially. Then I realised it should actually be who appointed Moore the backroom staff, but the new decision makers in the backroom staff are here because of Nagle....and Nagle is here because Super Dean Hoyle chose him. There were other offers on the table to buy us, is Nagle just another option that suited Hoyle's interests the most. Likely.
|
|
|
|
Post by brighousebandbred on Apr 29, 2024 11:47:01 GMT 1
Just out of interest unless their WUMS ( highly probable) . What part did the fans play in this relegation , all 3 of you.
Maybe the 3 are DH , DHs wife and DHs relative 😂.
|
|
|
|
Post by mosher on Apr 29, 2024 14:48:13 GMT 1
I've done players & recruitment, but I SO wanted to add Moore too.
|
|
|
|
Post by mosher on Apr 29, 2024 14:58:17 GMT 1
Trouble is Hoyle tried to do things on the cheap signing players & coaches as development projects - when you've appointed the likes of Siewert, Schofield and Fotheringham you've got a high degree of culpability . I'd have to disagree. They may not be here now, but they certainly contributed to where we find ourselves, so not irrelevant at all. Edit: Blackmore beat me to it lol |
|
|
|
Post by impact on Apr 29, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1
None of those were in charge when he left. They're completely irrelevant to the position we find ourselves in. I'd have to disagree. They may not be here now, but they certainly contributed to where we find ourselves, so not irrelevant at all. Edit: Blackmore beat me to it lol They were all gone by March 2023. Had we gone down last year I'd totally agree. We had the chance for a total reset and we didn't go it. Siewert in particular left 4 and a half years ago. He sure as hell isn't a reason why we got relegated this season. |
|
Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
Posts: 24,137 
|
Post by Tinpot on Apr 29, 2024 17:39:27 GMT 1
Why are we only allowed to vote twice?
There are many, many fuck ups that have led us here.
|
|
nah1
Tom Cowan Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 673
|
Post by nah1 on Apr 29, 2024 17:40:01 GMT 1
Cartwright. Got every decision wrong. Should resign, but, failing that, should be given the boot.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomo on Apr 29, 2024 18:36:35 GMT 1
Absolutely Dean Hoyle for me. Built us up and smashed us down.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Apr 29, 2024 19:47:25 GMT 1
None of those were in charge when he left. They're completely irrelevant to the position we find ourselves in. I'd have to disagree. They may not be here now, but they certainly contributed to where we find ourselves, so not irrelevant at all. Edit: Blackmore beat me to it lol How far are we going back blaming people? Cowley, supermac? Keith longbottom? What sent us down were decisions made THIS season added to a truly terrible injury record. Not a fan of the blame game but I’d be surprised if Cartwright keeps his job when the dust settles. He’s the DoF so it’s his job to make the right decisions around manager appointments and player recruitment. Won’t be entirely down to him but it’s his remit and responsibility. Can’t think of one call he got right. Player or manager. A lot of that is down to bad luck as on paper they were decent decisions but regardless we need someone who isn’t unlucky. I doubt Nagle will trust him to get the next manager right (presuming AB leaves)or spend any money we have available in the summer on players. I wouldn’t. |
|
|
|
Post by terrierneil on Apr 29, 2024 19:48:57 GMT 1
Nagle he's a fucking fruit loop.
|
|
Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
Posts: 24,137
|
Post by Tinpot on May 1, 2024 9:05:19 GMT 1
I'd have to disagree. They may not be here now, but they certainly contributed to where we find ourselves, so not irrelevant at all. Edit: Blackmore beat me to it lol How far are we going back blaming people? Cowley, supermac? Keith longbottom? What sent us down were decisions made THIS season added to a truly terrible injury record. Not a fan of the blame game but I’d be surprised if Cartwright keeps his job when the dust settles. He’s the DoF so it’s his job to make the right decisions around manager appointments and player recruitment. Won’t be entirely down to him but it’s his remit and responsibility. Can’t think of one call he got right. Player or manager. A lot of that is down to bad luck as on paper they were decent decisions but regardless we need someone who isn’t unlucky. I doubt Nagle will trust him to get the next manager right (presuming AB leaves)or spend any money we have available in the summer on players. I wouldn’t. REG leaving was one he got right. Yes, I am clutching at straws. |
|
|
|
Post by mrsoft on May 1, 2024 11:03:22 GMT 1
Setting aside the Warnock question, oh how we have missed Ronnie Jepson's influence on the dressing room. Just to have him there would have stamped out some of the idleness and drifting which settled over the performances and personalities this season.
|
|
|
|
Post by irverino on May 2, 2024 15:59:12 GMT 1
Setting aside the Warnock question, oh how we have missed Ronnie Jepson's influence on the dressing room. Just to have him there would have stamped out some of the idleness and drifting which settled over the performances and personalities this season. Haven't you heard? It was all Neil & Ronnie fault......Certainly deflects the blame from the two guys above, for now |
|
|
|
Post by steo1986 on May 2, 2024 17:15:52 GMT 1
Setting aside the Warnock question, oh how we have missed Ronnie Jepson's influence on the dressing room. Just to have him there would have stamped out some of the idleness and drifting which settled over the performances and personalities this season. Haven't you heard? It was all Neil & Ronnie fault......Certainly deflects the blame from the two guys above, for now All the Warnock Cock bashers will be out in force haha and to be honest he clearly is also part of the problem if this is true what andre says, we know pre season was down in Cornwall and we played shit teams and if he trained once a day depending on how long for then of course the players wont be fit, pre season is for hard work and getting fit its there job and Warnock should know better if this is the case! Going to Cornwall and the pre seasons games there was wrong to start with! what warnock wants he gets! maybe this is the real reason why the players are not fit ! |
|
incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,529
|
Post by incognito on May 2, 2024 17:27:14 GMT 1
I can't blame KN et al for retaining Warnock's services this summer - I would have done the same in their shoes.
We shouldn't underestimate the impact of the lengthy delay in obtaining EFL / FCA approval on shaping the approach to this season:
28th March - KN announced as prospective new owner
12th June - CEO appointed
14th June - NW retained for 2023/24
22nd June - Takeover approved
3rd July - Sporting Director appointed
6th September - Head of Recruitment appointed
Play Off finalists are at a genuine disadvantage vs the rest of the league due to the uncertainty under which they are having to operate until the end of May. We were effectively a month behind them. Handing Warnock near full autonomy for 23/24 provided the necessary continuity and breathing space to establish a permanent football infrastructure in the background.
Unfortunately, Warnock's squad was both undercooked and under-resourced, to the extent that potentially only he and Jeppo could have kept them up. And a few weeks later they were shown the door...
Whatever decisions are still to be made on 2024/25 need to be made quickly to allow proper preparation and avoid making the same mistakes again.
|
|
gumsoul
George Donis Terrier
Posts: 12
|
Post by gumsoul on May 2, 2024 18:13:03 GMT 1
The natural ups and downs that is football when following a team like ours?
|
|
|
|
Post by FloridaTerrier on May 2, 2024 21:05:13 GMT 1
Where's NW and his shit pre-season option? I need that for my multiple choice. Has this choice been included yet? |
|
digs
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,141
|
Post by digs on May 2, 2024 22:07:26 GMT 1
The natural ups and downs that is football when following a team like ours? how many ups have we had? one auto promotion in 40 years,and a few playoff wins without even scoring a goal in the finals in the last 30 years,as for cup runs zzzz |
|
Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
Posts: 24,137
|
Post by Tinpot on May 2, 2024 22:10:14 GMT 1
Whose turd made the sewage stink?
|
|
?
