AB and Moore

[Million Dollar Babies]

Were they really as poor as we thought?

They were both having to pick from a group of players many of whom are now struggling to stand out in League One. None of the players who moved on have performed better for their new clubs than they did for us (Rudoni, Burgzorg).

Crazy when you look back and the board were confident that the squad was capable of a top six finish.

I don't think they're great but history might show that they definitely weren't as bad as we made them out to be. Very much hamstrung by a squad way below the required quality for the level it was competing at.

[htafcdreams]

All built on a thin, old, injury prone squad with certain players getting frustrated with it all

[ben1987]

Nov 10, 2024 11:39:11 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

Were they really as poor as we thought?

They were both having to pick from a group of players many of whom are now struggling to stand out in League One. None of the players who moved on have performed better for their new clubs than they did for us (Rudoni, Burgzorg).

Crazy when you look back and the board were confident that the squad was capable of a top six finish.

I don't think they're great but history might show that they definitely weren't as bad as we made them out to be. Very much hamstrung by a squad way below the required quality for the level it was competing at.

I really don’t think AB was, he was spelling it out for us but not enough wanted to listen.

[Sio]

AB was probably the right man at the very wrong time. Ridiculous appointment, in hindsight.

I couldn't stand DM's tone/manner off the pitch - just can't see how players could've taken him seriously. But to be fair, he's tearing up League Two. Found his level perhaps.

[Million Dollar Babies]

Nov 10, 2024 11:47:30 GMT 1 Sio said:

AB was probably the right man at the very wrong time. Ridiculous appointment, in hindsight.

I couldn't stand DM's tone/manner off the pitch - just can't see how players could've taken him seriously. But to be fair, he's tearing up League Two. Found his level perhaps.

He's shown twice now with Wednesday and Port Vale that he's capable when he has a competitive squad. I'm not sure how because he struggles to string a coherent sentence together but players must like him

[Larry David]

We lack leadership and personalities in the team.

Duff has said repeatedly that they are a quiet bunch which concerns me.

This is something we need to address in January.

Still think we are work in progress and won't sort this until next summer.

No chance this team gets promotion in my view this year.

[Convictatthemac]

Agree, I don’t understand why fans are now calling for Duff’s head??? How many more managers are we going to sack when it’s clearly the players that are shite in skill and weak in mentality.

We’ve been left by potless and DH with a disgrace of a squad. Cartwright has done nothing to help the situation and we must start recruiting players the manager needs and leaders. It’s the squad and our shit recruiting that needs torn apart.

If Justasmithers is reading, Kev needs to understand this and to understand it quickly. Persisting with Cartwright will only lose fans and more games.

[goodbet]

Nov 10, 2024 11:51:20 GMT 1 Larry David said:

We lack leadership and personalities in the team.

Duff has said repeatedly that they are a quiet bunch which concerns me.

This is something we need to address in January.

Still think we are work in progress and won't sort this until next summer.

No chance this team gets promotion in my view this year.

We have been a work in progress for a few years, the progress being towards league 1.

We haven't progressed towards a striker either.
Progress has just been another word used to describe doing as little as possible at Town since we were in the premier league.

[HuddsTerrier]

Hang about I thought this was all Sorba Thomas' fault

I've never heard anyone question the commitment of Helik, Nicholls, Turton, Lees and a few others and they're still here

Since Moore left we have 11 new players on the books - all signed in 2024. That's an entire team (albeit we haven't signed a goalie in 2024)

So if they are bad signings - injury prone or just poor players - we can't keep blindly saying "these" players when half the squad haven't done a Christmas yet in Huddersfield

If we sign players that can't run longer than 30 minutes without snapping a hamstring or can't compete with the mighty Tamworth then a lot of the blame sits with the person who recommended them

We could sign another dozen players in 2025 but I have no confidence we'd see much better than Lapado, Evans and so forth and we'd probably need to extend the physio room based if they're anything like the crocs we've signed in 2024

[28901]

Nov 10, 2024 11:47:30 GMT 1 Sio said:

AB was probably the right man at the very wrong time. Ridiculous appointment, in hindsight.

I couldn't stand DM's tone/manner off the pitch - just can't see how players could've taken him seriously. But to be fair, he's tearing up League Two. Found his level perhaps.

DM did take Vale down though

[Waterloo Terrier]

Moore was just the wrong guy at the wrong time. Replacing a legendary figure like Warnock with a guy who couldn’t communicate was always going to cause massive issues with both players and fans. He was also really basic tactically, which Duff appears to be replicating.
AB appeared to be a pretty solid all-round coach, but was just left with too much to do. We had to go chasing wins. But overall as he pointed out the quality of the squad was bottom three, all day long.

[alfredsterrier]

We might think that MD is limited tactically but he does like to remind us each game now that he changed formations at least a couple of times.
It’s almost as if he thinks, if I keep saying it they will believe me.

[terrier17]

Nov 10, 2024 12:11:19 GMT 1 Convictatthemac said:

Agree, I don’t understand why fans are now calling for Duff’s head??? How many more managers are we going to sack when it’s clearly the players that are shite in skill and weak in mentality.

We’ve been left by potless and DH with a disgrace of a squad. Cartwright has done nothing to help the situation and we must start recruiting players the manager needs and leaders. It’s the squad and our shit recruiting that needs torn apart.

If Justasmithers is reading, Kev needs to understand this and to understand it quickly. Persisting with Cartwright will only lose fans and more games.

Duff, Cartwright and half of the squad needs to go imo. Get rid of everything associated with Beswick Sports, bring in a DoF with a clear plan and a manager that can play attacking football and isn’t afraid to change things up.

[28901]

Nov 10, 2024 13:03:42 GMT 1 Waterloo Terrier said:

Moore was just the wrong guy at the wrong time. Replacing a legendary figure like Warnock with a guy who couldn’t communicate was always going to cause massive issues with both players and fans. He was also really basic tactically, which Duff appears to be replicating.
AB appeared to be a pretty solid all-round coach, but was just left with too much to do. We had to go chasing wins. But overall as he pointed out the quality of the squad was bottom three, all day long.

Probably, but when he (AB) came Town were outside the relegation zone and had, what most considered, the easiest run in out of the relegation threatened clubs.
Those home collapses v West Brom Swansea and others were atrocious really.

[Waterloo Terrier]

Nov 10, 2024 13:44:01 GMT 1 28901 said:

Nov 10, 2024 13:03:42 GMT 1 Waterloo Terrier said:

Moore was just the wrong guy at the wrong time. Replacing a legendary figure like Warnock with a guy who couldn’t communicate was always going to cause massive issues with both players and fans. He was also really basic tactically, which Duff appears to be replicating.
AB appeared to be a pretty solid all-round coach, but was just left with too much to do. We had to go chasing wins. But overall as he pointed out the quality of the squad was bottom three, all day long.

Probably, but when he (AB) came Town were outside the relegation zone and had, what most considered, the easiest run in out of the relegation threatened clubs.
Those home collapses v West Brom Swansea and others were atrocious really.

True. West Brom were miles better than us though. And Burgzorg screwed up a massive chance against Swansea at 0-0.

[rockwall]

Nov 10, 2024 13:15:52 GMT 1 terrier17 said:

Nov 10, 2024 12:11:19 GMT 1 Convictatthemac said:

Agree, I don’t understand why fans are now calling for Duff’s head??? How many more managers are we going to sack when it’s clearly the players that are shite in skill and weak in mentality.

We’ve been left by potless and DH with a disgrace of a squad. Cartwright has done nothing to help the situation and we must start recruiting players the manager needs and leaders. It’s the squad and our shit recruiting that needs torn apart.

If Justasmithers is reading, Kev needs to understand this and to understand it quickly. Persisting with Cartwright will only lose fans and more games.

Duff, Cartwright and half of the squad needs to go imo. Get rid of everything associated with Beswick Sports, bring in a DoF with a clear plan and a manager that can play attacking football and isn’t afraid to change things up.

Why do we need a DoF? It hasn't ever proved to make a difference.
I'd rather have our manager getting the players he wants.
It is just another role created in football that isn't actually needed

[specialun]

Nov 10, 2024 12:11:19 GMT 1 Convictatthemac said:

Agree, I don’t understand why fans are now calling for Duff’s head??? How many more managers are we going to sack when it’s clearly the players that are shite in skill and weak in mentality.

We’ve been left by potless and DH with a disgrace of a squad. Cartwright has done nothing to help the situation and we must start recruiting players the manager needs and leaders. It’s the squad and our shit recruiting that needs torn apart.

If Justasmithers is reading, Kev needs to understand this and to understand it quickly. Persisting with Cartwright will only lose fans and more games.

How many new managers get a full pre season, overseas pre season, largely own coaching staff and 11 new players in a window (not all
In at first)?

I can find an arguement re never fully addressed striker issue as per comments earlier (he does have one who got 19 this level 2y ago) wanting to play wing backs and only having 2 who can properly capable of that role (both came in under him) … but thereafter struggling!

[Tim Nice But Dim]

Nov 10, 2024 11:51:20 GMT 1 Larry David said:

We lack leadership and personalities in the team.

Duff has said repeatedly that they are a quiet bunch which concerns me.

This is something we need to address in January.

Still think we are work in progress and won't sort this until next summer.

No chance this team gets promotion in my view this year.

The only players who give out instructions are Nicholls and Hogg, its the basic's of football to shout MAN ON!!.

[impact]

Nov 10, 2024 11:45:13 GMT 1 ben1987 said:

Nov 10, 2024 11:39:11 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

Were they really as poor as we thought?

They were both having to pick from a group of players many of whom are now struggling to stand out in League One. None of the players who moved on have performed better for their new clubs than they did for us (Rudoni, Burgzorg).

Crazy when you look back and the board were confident that the squad was capable of a top six finish.

I don't think they're great but history might show that they definitely weren't as bad as we made them out to be. Very much hamstrung by a squad way below the required quality for the level it was competing at.

I really don’t think AB was, he was spelling it out for us but not enough wanted to listen.

AB said what you wanted to hear. It was a masterclass in PR with no actions to back it up. His tactics and man management skills were awful bordering on non-existent. He offered no solutions and made us worse.

He blamed everyone and everything else to save himself. He slated players in public and divided the dressing room and the fanbase. To then run away after relegating us rather than staying to fix the mess he partly created says everything about the man.

[Tim Nice But Dim]

Nov 10, 2024 12:11:19 GMT 1 Convictatthemac said:

Agree, I don’t understand why fans are now calling for Duff’s head??? How many more managers are we going to sack when it’s clearly the players that are shite in skill and weak in mentality.

We’ve been left by potless and DH with a disgrace of a squad. Cartwright has done nothing to help the situation and we must start recruiting players the manager needs and leaders. It’s the squad and our shit recruiting that needs torn apart.

If Justasmithers is reading, Kev needs to understand this and to understand it quickly. Persisting with Cartwright will only lose fans and more games.

Monsieur Duff can only work with what he has got and in Monsieur Duff's case, its not a lot.

[shawsie]

Nov 10, 2024 18:41:55 GMT 1 impact said:

Nov 10, 2024 11:45:13 GMT 1 ben1987 said:

I really don’t think AB was, he was spelling it out for us but not enough wanted to listen.

AB said what you wanted to hear. It was a masterclass in PR with no actions to back it up. His tactics and man management skills were awful bordering on non-existent. He offered no solutions and made us worse.

He blamed everyone and everything else to save himself. He slated players in public and divided the dressing room and the fanbase. To then run away after relegating us rather than staying to fix the mess he partly created says everything about the man.

Interestingly as far as I'm aware he has no current job. Not sure slagging off players then walking away after relegation is likely to impress would be hirers for his services.
Re Moore - just move on. Horrific appt - we needed a character, someone with energy and an ability to unite. We got a man who struggled to string coherent sentences together who watched a different game to us all wk in wk out!
No ill will - clearly a decent man but a dreadful appt.
Jury out re duff - talks well but I'm yet to see him change things and get a positive reaction. He's not blessed with a great squad but I don't think he's a clue what his best team is and even if he had half of em are injured too often to make it work!
Big summer ahead - can't keep giving contracts to the likes of ruffels, hogg, ward, headley, turton. New blood reqd and quickly imho

[dugnet]

Although I'm not criticising this thread/debate the fact it is happening merely shows where we are as a club. Forever looking back.

At somepoint we need to start looking forward and at the moment we're not.

[runner76]

Neither did as well as Duff is doing so if Duff is shit they must both have been shitter

[shawsie]

Nov 10, 2024 20:03:42 GMT 1 dugnet said:

Although I'm not criticising this thread/debate the fact it is happening merely shows where we are as a club. Forever looking back.

At somepoint we need to start looking forward and at the moment we're not.

We can't look fwd too much though - because right now we have no identity as a club.
Nobody has said we are a huge club, but this persistent acceptance of mediocrity is switching folks incl myself off. I know we have to accept we are where we are right now......but many are asking simply how and why we've got here in 6 yrs and wanting answers not excuses. I know to some it's looking back- but to others it's trying to ensure we don't fkg do it again. From top to bottom since 2019 we have been abysmal - this season alone we've lost 3 times to lower league outfits incl a part time team and some say it doesn't matter its only a tinpot cup!!!! Ffs where's the standards, the professionalism?! I could accept it if wages weren't being paid etc but money has been spent on the stadium at long last and KNs heart appears to be in it - but his advisers need to sharpen up big time. It's not about how much you spend....it's who you spend it on. Too many radulovic, diakhaby, mbenza, types - hearts like peas!!
Fans are looking backwards to a time we had leaders, were fit and professional on the field and had a philosophy of buy young and cheap, develop and sell for a profit. Right now who in the squad could we do that with other than the much maligned sorba?!
Hopefully as the stadium deal draws closer the longer term forward looking plans will become clearer off the pitch. On it I fear we might gave to wait til the summer exodus.

[space hardware]

Nov 10, 2024 19:56:53 GMT 1 shawsie said:

Nov 10, 2024 18:41:55 GMT 1 impact said:

AB said what you wanted to hear. It was a masterclass in PR with no actions to back it up. His tactics and man management skills were awful bordering on non-existent. He offered no solutions and made us worse.

He blamed everyone and everything else to save himself. He slated players in public and divided the dressing room and the fanbase. To then run away after relegating us rather than staying to fix the mess he partly created says everything about the man.

Interestingly as far as I'm aware he has no current job. Not sure slagging off players then walking away after relegation is likely to impress would be hirers for his services.
Re Moore - just move on. Horrific appt - we needed a character, someone with energy and an ability to unite. We got a man who struggled to string coherent sentences together who watched a different game to us all wk in wk out!
No ill will - clearly a decent man but a dreadful appt.
Jury out re duff - talks well but I'm yet to see him change things and get a positive reaction. He's not blessed with a great squad but I don't think he's a clue what his best team is and even if he had half of em are injured too often to make it work!
Big summer ahead - can't keep giving contracts to the likes of ruffels, hogg, ward, headley, turton. New blood reqd and quickly imho

If we're handing out contracts to them again then it's clear that no lessons are being learned.

[28901]

Nov 10, 2024 15:08:49 GMT 1 Waterloo Terrier said:

Nov 10, 2024 13:44:01 GMT 1 28901 said:

Probably, but when he (AB) came Town were outside the relegation zone and had, what most considered, the easiest run in out of the relegation threatened clubs.
Those home collapses v West Brom Swansea and others were atrocious really.

True. West Brom were miles better than us though. And Burgzorg screwed up a massive chance against Swansea at 0-0.

We still capitulated. Preston away as well.
To do that 3 times in such a close run of games under AB? I've never seen us do anything like it before.
Not under Moore or even that Scottish clown before Warnock. Most games were close.

[Convictatthemac]

Nov 10, 2024 18:30:29 GMT 1 specialun said:

Nov 10, 2024 12:11:19 GMT 1 Convictatthemac said:

Agree, I don’t understand why fans are now calling for Duff’s head??? How many more managers are we going to sack when it’s clearly the players that are shite in skill and weak in mentality.

We’ve been left by potless and DH with a disgrace of a squad. Cartwright has done nothing to help the situation and we must start recruiting players the manager needs and leaders. It’s the squad and our shit recruiting that needs torn apart.

If Justasmithers is reading, Kev needs to understand this and to understand it quickly. Persisting with Cartwright will only lose fans and more games.

How many new managers get a full pre season, overseas pre season, largely own coaching staff and 11 new players in a window (not all
In at first)?

I can find an arguement re never fully addressed striker issue as per comments earlier (he does have one who got 19 this level 2y ago) wanting to play wing backs and only having 2 who can properly capable of that role (both came in under him) … but thereafter struggling!

The answer is not many… because we keep sacking them.

11 players, but not one of them a proper leader. At best I would say Miller is a leader by actions. The rest are absolutely not leaders. What left we have of players are weak mentally, complaining about how tough the fans are on them and the pressure on them to win. Ffs, you are a professional footballer, your job is to win.

Imagine being new to the club and walking in and finding out that these so called championship players are actually complaining left, right and centre, rather than demanding standards, demanding the ball, demanding of their teammates and relishing the challenge to go straight back up to prove themselves.

We didn’t sort out the DM/deep lying playmaker, we decided to go into this season with CB’s that are slow and proven as terrible defenders and on top of all of this, we never sorted out players who can actually pass and move.

Duff might have got 11 new players, but the well is still poisonous and the new players are drinking with the old players from the well with nobody to lead them away from the well.

[The Sheriff Strikes Back]

Nov 10, 2024 18:41:55 GMT 1 impact said:

Nov 10, 2024 11:45:13 GMT 1 ben1987 said:

I really don’t think AB was, he was spelling it out for us but not enough wanted to listen.

AB said what you wanted to hear. It was a masterclass in PR with no actions to back it up. His tactics and man management skills were awful bordering on non-existent. He offered no solutions and made us worse.

He blamed everyone and everything else to save himself. He slated players in public and divided the dressing room and the fanbase. To then run away after relegating us rather than staying to fix the mess he partly created says everything about the man.

Yet everything he said was correct.

[utttrooper]

Breitenshiter can go fuck himself with what he said about Warnock.

[Bubbles]

Nov 10, 2024 18:41:55 GMT 1 impact said:

Nov 10, 2024 11:45:13 GMT 1 ben1987 said:

I really don’t think AB was, he was spelling it out for us but not enough wanted to listen.

AB said what you wanted to hear. It was a masterclass in PR with no actions to back it up. His tactics and man management skills were awful bordering on non-existent. He offered no solutions and made us worse.

He blamed everyone and everything else to save himself. He slated players in public and divided the dressing room and the fanbase. To then run away after relegating us rather than staying to fix the mess he partly created says everything about the man.

5 points above the relegation zone when he took over as well weren't we?