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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2009 15:23:19 GMT 1
Good post MT - i mentioned about them making sure they stay where they are and this will be via a very ruthless recruitment policy at schoolboy level, where MU probably buy the market, with Chelsea and a few others having similar policies. There are few clubs can compete with these clubs even at this level and until the FA introduce salary caps and things in US sport like draft picks etc, which from a recruitment perspective seem fairer (prof sport in the US does suffer similar rich/poor funding issues though...).
For the parents of these kids it's difficult to ignore the lure of short term gains, whereas if they were to look for the longer term they might be better pitching their kids in with the lower lights in the premiership and championship.
At the moment the big clubs have too much clout at all levels, so how we will ever get to a level playing field without a revolution, god knows.
However, come the revolution....
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Post by nickmaca10 on Mar 2, 2009 16:07:55 GMT 1
It just takes the p**s the money spent on 1 player nowadays, look back to see what united paid for cantona (£1.2million) in '92 i think to a 'cantona' now - (£30+m). That's like a 250% increase!
Anyway regarding the premiership, i'd much rather have my team in the lower leagues, knowing I can go to an away match on the day and buy a ticket nearly always and we still can go to Wembley. Take this over being a Middlesboro' anyday.
Not many teams visited the millenium stadium, even less visited and won. One of the best days of my life that (even though the game was droll). So I am glad I support a great lowere league team with whom I an still dream of success (albeit not the best of the best competitions)
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Post by flip09 on Mar 2, 2009 16:11:40 GMT 1
It just takes the p**s the money spent on 1 player nowadays, look back to see what united paid for cantona (£1.2million) in '92 i think to a 'cantona' now - (£30+m). That's like a 250% increase! More like 2500% . I know wot ya mean tho
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Post by Porrohman on Mar 2, 2009 16:19:32 GMT 1
Look on the bright side WE'RE TOWN,THEY'RE NOT ! ! !
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Post by malvernterrier on Mar 2, 2009 17:54:49 GMT 1
Look on the bright side WE'RE TOWN,THEY'RE NOT ! ! ! BEST POST OF THE THREAD.....well said that man!!!!!!!!!
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Post by panasonicgeese on Mar 2, 2009 18:06:29 GMT 1
Sorry Antich, i know your view may differ, but I think they are part of a handful of clubs that are slowly killing the game... No I see the same view. When the winning penalty was slotted home the players jogged to celebrate with the fans. It was certainly not a full blooded passionate celebration which disappointed me. I'm sure the Spurs players would have celebrated with a more 'going mental' approach. I still go and watch United but my colours are now firmly blue & white and enjoy the Town triumphs just as much as when I was in Barcelona 10 years ago on that famous May evening. United to me no longer feel a 'working man's club' like when I stood on the Stretford End as a boy with my uncle, but a pure money making machine that see's me more as a consumer than a supporter. I read an article in the Times not too long ago that said a number of people like me are turning there backs on the footballing giants and starting to watch local teams. The best example I can give is that the heart of old school united support was ripped out by disgruntled supporters who now follow FC United. The club lost a number of characters similar to our own Mayor of Cov (Mr. Ainley) and these passionate lads will never watch Man United again. Those who have traveled with me to away games will vouch for my disappointment when we have lost or thrown a potential good result away. Personally although not a local lad I see Town as my team now (regardless of fortunes on/off the pitch) and will only watch United now as a football watching supporter rather than a United fan! As far as I'm concerned I'm an adopted Town fan for life!
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Post by pozza on Mar 2, 2009 18:18:19 GMT 1
[Yet in England we criticise Chelsea who spent less money than Man U to try and "buy" the title. Figures showing spending by teams since the start of the Premier League: That shows Chelsea have spent £472,585,000 more than Manchester United since the Premier League started.
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Post by flip09 on Mar 2, 2009 18:28:14 GMT 1
Antichgeese, my situation is similar to yours. I was born and raised a Man United fan, even had a season ticket for the last 2 seasons 2006-08 but got ripped off a year ago. After buying all the cup tickets, they didnt give me my seat for Barcelona semi final. Was well annoyed especially as they tried to make me buy one in another part of the ground for about £55!!
Coincidently i had just started working in Bradford and met someone who is a Town fan, went to a couple of games last season with her. The £100 season ticket offer then came and was too good to pass up on and altho the quality of football isnt the same as Man U (its by far better than last season tho!) the Matchday experience beats OT hands down! You do really believe that the club cares about its fans
Been to 8 away games this season and have loved it, especially the wins at Brighton and Southend. and noone was more gutted than me when we let in that goal on Sat. Was sat in Stockport end but had my head in hands when they scored. Looking forward to MK next week.
Like you i see Town as my team now
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Post by panasonicgeese on Mar 2, 2009 18:33:35 GMT 1
Like you i see Town as my team now I had a season ticket for nearly 30 years and only ended up watching Town at home about 8 years ago on a freebee ticket (United as always were playing at 4pm on Sunday). I don't know why and even now can't put my finger on it but from that first minute I loved it. As you say the football is not to the same standard but the overall 'feel' of the club is far more appealing to me. Hopefully you will be an ST as well next season. As you say we are both Town addicts now!
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Post by dyson84 on Mar 2, 2009 18:52:39 GMT 1
if you go to old trafford all you see is tourists taking photo's they are killing the game in fact i think the whole premiership is killing the game ........... give me lower league footie anyday Absolutely, as every season comes and goes i get less interested in the premiership! i really only follow it at all now for the purposes of having some banter in a fantasy football league. Otherwise I'd probably not have a clue who was doing what this season. But could probably predict the table without much trouble! Every season i hope one of the big 4 fails to qualify for the champions league. that would bring them back to te real world and give the others a shot. The premiership, the most competitive league in the world, my arse!
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Post by flip09 on Mar 2, 2009 19:05:58 GMT 1
Like you i see Town as my team now I had a season ticket for nearly 30 years and only ended up watching Town at home about 8 years ago on a freebee ticket (United as always were playing at 4pm on Sunday). I don't know why and even now can't put my finger on it but from that first minute I loved it. As you say the football is not to the same standard but the overall 'feel' of the club is far more appealing to me. Hopefully you will be an ST as well next season. As you say we are both Town addicts now! Yeah ill definately be a ST holder next year, sit in Antich but think ill be in Pink Link tomorrow, great atmosphere. Except for the fact i work some Saturdays and lates i might have been to every game this season! My Dad's a ST holder at Man U and he says lots of people are doing the same, goin supporting a local team. Last season there were a ridiculous amount of empty seats at some games, the seat next to me only got used 4 times (Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City!!). Its easy to get a ST now, if you can afford it!!
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Mar 2, 2009 19:44:06 GMT 1
[Yet in England we criticise Chelsea who spent less money than Man U to try and "buy" the title. Figures showing spending by teams since the start of the Premier League: That shows Chelsea have spent £472,585,000 more than Manchester United since the Premier League started. Fair do's I stand corrected in terms of exact figures. Tho where you get your £472m from I don't know, it's either £120m more or £150m more depending on whether you look at gross or net. I stand by my main point tho that spending £391m is hardly winning the league via altruistic methods. One other thing seems certain. Chelsea's big spending days are pretty much numbered so Man Utd will be the big spenders for the next few years and therefore more than likely the dominant team in England.
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Post by pozza on Mar 2, 2009 19:49:23 GMT 1
I was just going on the Purchased side of things.
£391 over 16 seasons is only £24.5 million a year. When you consider some the amounts they have paid over the past few seasons (mainly due to over inflated prices) I dont think its thats bad.
They've also won 10 titles in this time, its only £39 million per title. Compared to £255,845,000 that Chelseas cost.
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Post by boothylegend on Mar 2, 2009 20:01:31 GMT 1
The amount of drivvle some people come out with about Man Utd is gobsmacking quite frankly, and I'm talking about those that defend them.
Man Utd are where they are, and will continue to be where they are because they are a successful business. It's almost impossible for them to fail when they've got millions invested in every area of their business. I'm sure everyone is aware of barriers to entry for a business; a huge benefactor (although I'm saddened that it's come to this) is a clubs only opportunity to overcome these barriers and make the league actually competitive.
You can argue that this is fair, and yes what they're doing is perfectly legal and intelligent business, but we're talking about sport here, and IMO it shouldn't be purely based on business. Tesco is probably the most apt example to compare Man Utd to; whilst other food retailers struggle increasingly to survive, they succeed more and more.
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Post by flip09 on Mar 2, 2009 20:21:26 GMT 1
The fact is they have the best manager in the league by a mile!. Benitez and Wenger are too stubbern to change so will never compete. They have the biggest ground and most fans so are always gonna be ahead.
Take out the 2 titles chelsea won and theres only 4 times United havnt won the Premier League. 3 of those could and maybe should have been Uniteds as well
94/95 - Would have won it had Cantona not done his kungfu kick 97/98 - Would have won it had Keane not been injured all season 03/04 - If van Nistelrooys pen against Arsenal had been 2 inches lower would have won that, and Rio getting his suspension
The competition isnt good enough. People say The Premier League is the best but its not! Man City may challenge for a few years but like Chelsea it wont last. The only intersting thing will be when Fergie retires.
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Post by pozza on Mar 2, 2009 20:31:07 GMT 1
Man Utd are where they are, and will continue to be where they are because they are a successful business. It's almost impossible for them to fail when they've got millions invested in every area of their business. They are only a great business because they were one of the most succesful teams in England back in the day. They gained a lot of support from this, & that, twinned with the success they had when the English Football went "global" has enabled them to "earn" this business. A team such as Chelsea will never have a long term fan base abroad because they are unable to sustain success like Man Utd have. They may gain "overnight" fans for a few seasons, but as soon as they dont win anything for a while these "fans" will move onto the team that is successful - IE Man Utd. IMO Man Utd have earnt the right to be the one of the biggest clubs in the World. They have never had loads of money thrown at them for one person. They money that have made due to winning things, they have invested wisley and they've been lucky to have a manager that knows what he's doing.
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Post by malvernterrier on Mar 2, 2009 21:54:22 GMT 1
Man Utd are where they are, and will continue to be where they are because they are a successful business. It's almost impossible for them to fail when they've got millions invested in every area of their business. They are only a great business because they were one of the most succesful teams in England back in the day. They gained a lot of support from this, & that, twinned with the success they had when the English Football went "global" has enabled them to "earn" this business. A team such as Chelsea will never have a long term fan base abroad because they are unable to sustain success like Man Utd have. They may gain "overnight" fans for a few seasons, but as soon as they dont win anything for a while these "fans" will move onto the team that is successful - IE Man Utd. IMO Man Utd have earnt the right to be the one of the biggest clubs in the World. They have never had loads of money thrown at them for one person. They money that have made due to winning things, they have invested wisley and they've been lucky to have a manager that knows what he's doing. Pozza, I honestly always thought that you were one of the more sensible posters on here, but this is bordering on the insane! Man u get the best players through paying the most money (we will watch man city carefully over the next 2 or 3 years) They then pay their superstars indecent wages, put allsorts of constraints and rules on their season ticket holders.........work within a few hundred million pounds of BORROWED money.......sell the precious shirts in hundreds of Countries all over the world.......put weak teams out whenever they want (Although of course their second string would finish top 6 anyway) Fly out to JKapan or Rio or wherever they can extort money instead of playing a league game or cup tie.......and expect us 'normal' teams supporters to let em get on with it. They are crass in the extreme and I would want NOTHING to do with a Town team who copied their morals!!!!!!!!! No offence mate.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2009 22:31:06 GMT 1
tbh i dont have anything against manchester united. i dont really care about any other premiership clubs other than aston villa and sunderland-family connections and aston villa because of martin o'neil- would have loved to see him as the england manager. too much foreign investment is ruining what english football 'used' to be. although this maybe ruining the quality of the premiership legues like ours are benefiting because clubs are ofloading english talent to the lower leagues so it ends being the lower league teams that end up gaining from the bigger clubs IMO mistakes hence giving/selling better quality of players to clubs like ours and others in the championship and lge2 -this improving lower leagues. i often talk waffle but i can just understand what i am saying . i hope fellow posters agree with this . and if yuu do like it then why not give me some of the positive stuff.
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Post by pozza on Mar 2, 2009 22:45:46 GMT 1
Pozza, I honestly always thought that you were one of the more sensible posters on here, but this is bordering on the insane! ;D ;D ;D I know they get the best players becuase they pay the most money by doing all that stuff you mention, what I was getting at is that have built up a repuation over a number of years which allows them to spend that amount of money. They just havn't had someone walk in and spend millions on players ala Chelsea & presumably Man City. They also have had/still do have a decent amount of players coming throught the youth set up, so it's not like ever player in the team has been bought for millions of pounds. Just like Town do on a smaller scale really I agree with what your saying, I hate they way the season ticket thing works, and the fact they dont care about the normal fan anymore. Its a disgrace & if anything like that ever happened to Town I would probably walk away as the club wouldn't feel like "mine" anymore. I'd sooner playing in the Unibond than have all that bollocks. No offence taken mate
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Post by flip09 on Mar 2, 2009 22:56:07 GMT 1
I hate they way the season ticket thing works Its a disgrace what they done to ST holders. My Dad has been forced to pay ridiculous amounts of money the last cpl of seasons to see United reserves against the likes of QPR, Derby, Coventry and poor M'boro and Blackburn sides. It has come to the point where he wants United to get away draws in the cup! Oh and if you try and cancel your credit card so you dont get charged, they take away your season ticket from you!!
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Post by pozza on Mar 2, 2009 22:57:42 GMT 1
Aye, know a couple of people that had to give ST's up for that reason.
Its a disgrace really.
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Mar 3, 2009 1:56:18 GMT 1
Pozza, I honestly always thought that you were one of the more sensible posters on here, but this is bordering on the insane! ;D ;D ;D I know they get the best players becuase they pay the most money by doing all that stuff you mention, what I was getting at is that have built up a repuation over a number of years which allows them to spend that amount of money. They just havn't had someone walk in and spend millions on players ala Chelsea & presumably Man City. They also have had/still do have a decent amount of players coming throught the youth set up, so it's not like ever player in the team has been bought for millions of pounds. I hear what you're saying, but has there ever been a time since the 1970's when Man Utd weren't one of the top 3 richest teams in England? In my lifetime they have always been rich and always been able to get the best players and best kids even when they were useless (1980's!). So I'm not sure how they earnt this right to spend money you mention. Plus if they've always had money then why would someone come in (a la Abramovic) and give them loads of money? What would have been the benefit to either party? You can bet that if they had been struggling like Chelsea they would just have quickly have sold their sole to a Russian benefactor. To praise them for not needing a benefactor seems odd.
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