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Post by Wizaard on Oct 13, 2011 16:29:52 GMT 1
Under relative poverty assessment there will always be an envious lower quadrant, as it's never going to go.
Labour brought in a commitment to reduce child poverty by half, which was achieved. The Tories have made no such commitment to maintain never mind reduce the current levels. Luckily they can blame it on the Lib Dems, like everything else.
Money is made from paper, which is indeed made from trees, so point three is wrong.
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ab
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Post by ab on Oct 13, 2011 21:16:46 GMT 1
Aren't UK banknotes actually made of a sort of textile?
OK, brispie, I'm a Tory, never claimed otherwise. Part of the"I'm all right Jack" attitude is that I genuinely don't give a fuck about people being richer than me or indeed about becoming or appearing to be rich. I'd like people to have enough in the terms I mentioned earlier. Anything more than that is up to them and so are decisions like whether to eat that extra cake, smoke that fag, prioritise using 10% of their disposable income to pay for an iPhone or rack up credit card debts to buy stuff that they don't need. It is also up to them to decide how to bring up their kids and whether to make them become productive or predatory in the new language of the Left. However, if there isn't much to prey on, being productive is going to be a better approach.
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brispie
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Post by brispie on Oct 14, 2011 9:19:32 GMT 1
As a liberal socialist i also think that people should essentially be free to what they want to do. However, when it starts to impact on other people it should be controlled in some way. The energy firms being a good example here. There's a point where the free market isn't the answer.
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merkin
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Post by merkin on Oct 14, 2011 9:48:09 GMT 1
you can't have it both ways brispo.
you want them to be free to do want they want....as long as its not getting into debt.
get a fucking grip
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ab
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Post by ab on Oct 14, 2011 9:57:33 GMT 1
You won't get any disagreement from me on that. There is at least on the face of it a really serious failure of regulation in the energy market, at least in part due to Ofgem being largely staffed by complete clownshoes. They do seem to have taken a bit of a tougher stance today but still need to go through the process of investigating whether there really is a problem or just looks like one (eg I remember years back at the DTI having to deal with a complaint about petrol pricing in the Scottish Highlands and being told that the same people had been making the same, actually unfounded but superficially attractive complaint about once every 15 months for 30 years).
Curiously, the statement today that gas companies make about £125 of profit a year from each domestic customer didn't sound especially high to me. The average gas bill is about £800 a year according to British Gas. So the very best that could possibly be achieved would be to bring the average gas bill down to £675. Still a lot of money and thats on the basis that the gas companies could be required to work on zero profit (this wouldn't in practice be how it worked were they all to be nationalised - gas pricing would need to include a profit margin to avoid the need for a nationalised gas industry to be continually requiring taxpayer subsidy).
Realistically the reduction in price that could be achieved by slashing gas company profits would be a lot less exciting - perhaps going from £800 to £725 if they were being really bold. If the high pricing is due to cartel behaviour there might be some big fines (it would be possible to fine up to 10% of global turnover during the period of the cartel - ie removing the benefit of the excess cartel profits). Although this would be likely to get passed on at least in part to consumers and employees...
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Bernie
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Post by Bernie on Oct 14, 2011 10:02:20 GMT 1
I think you have deeply misunderstood socialism, as she is practised, in that case.
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Post by denby on Oct 14, 2011 10:28:37 GMT 1
A white man does have certain standards of living he expects that someone in Umbogumbo land would never understand. they have very high standards in zamunda
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brispie
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Post by brispie on Oct 14, 2011 12:37:32 GMT 1
I've not deeply misunderstood socialism, just proved the conflict between liberalism and socialism.
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Post by turtle on Oct 14, 2011 12:38:53 GMT 1
zamunda is no longer part of umbogumboland it's now part of timbucktoo apparently they are struggling to sort out the poverty in timbucktoo now as super-rich zamunda and its reserves of whatchamacallit makes them all feel really poor
the poor souls. they should cut themselves off and rid themselves of poverty obv
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bromley
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Post by bromley on Oct 14, 2011 12:47:39 GMT 1
You're in poverty if you cannot afford to go to the pub at least once a week. The quickest way to reduce poverty is to reduce duty on beer sold in pubs.
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brispie
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Post by brispie on Oct 14, 2011 13:18:10 GMT 1
Bloody hell. I'm in poverty.
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ab
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Post by ab on Oct 14, 2011 13:29:30 GMT 1
I nearly hyperventilated the other week when I was in London and found beer to be £4 a pint.
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brispie
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Post by brispie on Oct 14, 2011 13:38:22 GMT 1
I genuinely am in poverty based on Brommers's remarks.
After outgoings I usually have about £20 a month to do with what I wish. Going to a pub for a few pints would wipe that out in one go.
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ralph2
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Post by ralph2 on Oct 14, 2011 13:57:06 GMT 1
I nearly hyperventilated the other week when I was in London and found beer to be £4 a pint. Being asked for £3.96 for a pint of cider in a hotel bar in West Bexington, Dorset earlier this year very nearly had me raising a n eyebrow.
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Bernie
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Post by Bernie on Oct 14, 2011 13:59:19 GMT 1
You don't know how lucky you are. Mind you, I only pay about 100 London pints a month for 65 square meters of scandinavian parquet-floored, double-balconied semi-bachelor pad swankiness 5 minutes walk from the tube, so there's some sort of swings and roundabouts going on I suppose.
Fuckinell, Bry-spee, I empathise with your pain. Lots less painful than being 20 quid short every month but I'm not sure I could live like that. Perhaps I'll give it a go as a sort of self-flagellation/health kick and see what happens. If I were you I'd be looking into saving for an extensive home-brew setup. Possibly a still as well.
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bromley
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Post by bromley on Oct 14, 2011 14:14:32 GMT 1
brispie, you really should gone bust some time ago. £20 for fun per month is no way to live the only life you'll ever have.
If you're paying £4 for a pint in the UK it is your own fault. Probably for drinking peroni or some such shit.
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merkin
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Post by merkin on Oct 14, 2011 14:55:36 GMT 1
After 'outgoings'
Without being too personal...tell us some of your outgoings.
I get this with people at work who have sky, phone bills, internet, paying off a 3 piece suite, carpets, dining table + chairs, curtains, mobiles, catalogues etc etc
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brispie
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Post by brispie on Oct 14, 2011 15:05:03 GMT 1
Mortgage, the usual bills, including internet, but no TV as that comes free. Plus two mobiles on a tenner a month deals.
Debt repayments kill me. Still repaying a car loan which was essential once the missus got a job that is out in the sticks. That gets paid off next year. Student loans, plus various other loans/overdrafts.
Childcare takes up a reasonable amount. And then food for the 4 of us, which is difficult to scrimp on when you've got 2 young kids. I hasten to add that we very very rarely have takeaways.
The last two years our holidays have been paid for by grandparents, otherwise we wouldn't have had a holiday, so no money going on that.
Mrs bris went part time when we had the 1st kid and she has stayed on 3 days a week.
I should add that pro rate we both earn over the national average.
Mrsbris gets paid on the 20th of the month. That just about sees us through until I get paid on the last working day. We are then usually skint to the point of begging in laws for £20 here or there to see us through until payday. Money runs out around the 5th of the month.
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Post by denby on Oct 14, 2011 15:38:29 GMT 1
poor mrsbris, is there still a chance she can get together with wilbur?
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merkin
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Post by merkin on Oct 14, 2011 15:47:38 GMT 1
see, your not even remotely in poverty then.
if u have a TV - luxury
if u have the internet - u must have a computer - luxury
takeaways are a luxury
holidays are a luxury
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brispie
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Post by brispie on Oct 14, 2011 15:58:00 GMT 1
In my situation I have to be positive and I always know that globally I'm pretty well off.
However, to clarify we've got one battered old telly on its last legs. A netbook that my mum brought us for Xmas when my PC died a death. I can't remember the last time we had a takeaway. The last time we paid for a holiday was a week in a cottage in Cornwall in 2008.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 14, 2011 16:31:32 GMT 1
So you expect poverty in the modern world to be all about walking around in rags and sending the kids out to work up the chimneys? Why don't you start the 4 Yorkshiremen sketch off? You lot need to lighten up. I'll start if off Who'd a thought 30 year ago we'd be sitting here drinking Chateux de Chaselie (excuse spelling) Aye in them days we'd be glad o' price o' a cup tea next
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leonie
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Post by leonie on Oct 15, 2011 7:43:35 GMT 1
"This access to cheap debt bollocks is a fucking cop out for people that made shit decisions"
Omg how things change. I couldn't agree more with merkin. I know I'm in a good position at the moment but also know I could lose everything I have at anytime so I keep within my means. And it is about decisions, I didn't have a car for ten years because I couldn't afford one although nearly everyone I knew was in debt. It was socially acceptable to have large debt but I chose not to because I knew it had to be paid back with interest.
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merkin
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Post by merkin on Oct 17, 2011 10:02:54 GMT 1
That's right brispie - you are pretty well off and not in poverty.
So stop moaning about a government that is in exactly the same boat as you - paying off debts (albeit created by somebody else) and only *harming* people that think that they are in poverty but actually aren't.
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brispie
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Post by brispie on Oct 17, 2011 13:19:28 GMT 1
I'm not in that bad a situation really. I've got family, so nights out on the beer were very rare anyway. I do lots of almost free things with the kids and they love it. Down to the City Farm, walking out in the country or just off to the local park.
Some of my debt was unavoidable. Student loan and car loan being the two. We had no choice with the car as mrsbris got a better paid job for which she had no choice but to drive. However, I've said several times, I made lots of stupid decisions. Those decisions wouldn't have been possible if debt wasn't available.
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ab
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Post by ab on Oct 17, 2011 15:42:36 GMT 1
The brispies would probably be better off bludging off the state!
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Post by GlasgowTangerine on Oct 24, 2011 16:52:33 GMT 1
Do your worst with this lot Alas, they appear to have removed the comments, which were quite fun.
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owlie
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Post by owlie on Oct 28, 2011 9:19:46 GMT 1
That family do not look like they have a shortage of bread, or any type of food.
And if the mother hasn't worked since she had kids, and the oldest is 21, the current government or indeed the last one can't really be to blame for her fat arsed idleness.
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