teachers

[merkin]

what wankers

i'm sending my kids in on friday and if they don't like the lessons i'm giving them permission to down pencils with the backing of a brief explanation as to why

teachers are supposed to be clever aren't they?

surely even they can do the Maths on these gold plated (just for you denbo) pension pots.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

:red:

You speak of something you know nowt about fella.

Teachers get paid next to bugger all, do a really hard job with little thanks, have racked up debts qualifying and all on the promise of a good pension.

And now they, some who have been teaching for decades and looking forward to a well earned retirement, have been told to pay more in for less money and work longer. That wasn't the deal that they signed up for.

I'm assuming you don't work in the public sector. Therefore your employer chooses what benefits to offer you, and you have the option of working for one employer or another. Teachers don't have that choice.

Add to that constantly changing rules and regulations, ridiculous government polices that change year on year, the stripping away of their powers to instill maningful discipline, and multiple causes of stress and anxiety, and it's a shit job that has just got worse.

But I'm glad they're educating your kids.

Becuase if it were left to you I dread to think what would happen.

You should send your kids to school on Friday and tell them to show their teachers respect and support.

But you won't.

:suicide:

[owlie]

Teachers do not get paid "next to bugger all". While it doesn't command a 6 figure salary, it is certainly a comfortable income.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Rubbish mate. I should know, I married one. She earns what some would consider a decent wage, but only without an in depth knowledge of what qualifying for the role, and doing it, involves.

My point is that compared to the private sector, the only attraction in terms of financial reward is the pension. And now they've been shafted over it.

I earn more than many teachers, and my job is a cake walk in comparison.

Everything is on a sliding scale. Fact is, if it were nurses everyone would be supporting them.

[markelt]

Mmmm nurses

[merkin]

the teachers i know think there job is a piece of piss

lets see how many of them fuck off and do jobs in the private sector then.

oh no, means they would have to give up short hours, bucketfuls of holiday and a massive fuck off pension. if it was fucking halved it would still be massive.

nurses are idle moaning c**** too.

[markelt]

At least they would make it on to the A Ark. Not like you and me.

[daleylama]

Jun 29, 2011 15:40:16 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

Rubbish mate. I should know, I married one. She earns what some would consider a decent wage, but only without an in depth knowledge of what qualifying for the role, and doing it, involves.

My point is that compared to the private sector, the only attraction in terms of financial reward is the pension. And now they've been shafted over it.

I earn more than many teachers, and my job is a cake walk in comparison.

Everything is on a sliding scale. Fact is, if it were nurses everyone would be supporting them.

Funny how people see things differently.

My missus is a teacher too and I think that she earns a very decent wage for what she needed to do to get where she is.

Fair enough she is at management grade or whatever it is called and isn't a new starter, but the guaranteed pay scaling and relative job security aint much to be sniffed at.

As long as your not completely shit your unlikely to be discriminated against in terms of age, getting a job in your 50's and 60's must be hell. Not for a teacher, simply go agency and watch the work roll in.

Yes, she has to work hard, so do I, that's life, to get a decent wage, work hard.

You must be a pimp or something.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

not at all. Simple fact is though, that in any walk of life if you sign up for a pension that is sold to you with guaranteed returns and ten/twenty/thirty years down the line, the administrators say "actually, we're changing the terms and conditions and there's fuck all you can do about it" ou're going to be unhappy

Imagine signing up for a mortgage on a fixed interest rate for life. You've paid it for 20 of the 25 years, and are just starting to think the house is yours. But then the mortgage lender says "right, we've decided you need to start paying us 150% of what you have been paying, and we're adding another 5 years, plus at the end we're keeping 5% of your house". You'd go fucking tonto. There is no difference here.

And any teacher who reckons their job is easy is either getting away with coasting, or is shit at their job.

My wife has been teaching for ten years, and has had to deal with unruly kids, aggessive parents and a shit set of bosses, with little or no thanks. And that's at primary level. At secondary level add in the threat of violence, pressure of exam results leading to seasoned professionals suffering work-related depression and stress, and parents who increasingly blame teachers for their kids shortcomings. It's a job very few people choose to do for life, and a job that needs to attract the highest quality professsionals. If people didn't want to be teachers before, why the fuck would they want to now?

[thrice]

Jun 29, 2011 19:46:03 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

not at all. Simple fact is though, that in any walk of life if you sign up for a pension that is sold to you with guaranteed returns and ten/twenty/thirty years down the line, the administrators say "actually, we're changing the terms and conditions and there's fuck all you can do about it" ou're going to be unhappy

Imagine signing up for a mortgage on a fixed interest rate for life. You've paid it for 20 of the 25 years, and are just starting to think the house is yours. But then the mortgage lender says "right, we've decided you need to start paying us 150% of what you have been paying, and we're adding another 5 years, plus at the end we're keeping 5% of your house". You'd go fucking tonto. There is no difference here.

And any teacher who reckons their job is easy is either getting away with coasting, or is shit at their job.

My wife has been teaching for ten years, and has had to deal with unruly kids, aggessive parents and a shit set of bosses, with little or no thanks. And that's at primary level. At secondary level add in the threat of violence, pressure of exam results leading to seasoned professionals suffering work-related depression and stress, and parents who increasingly blame teachers for their kids shortcomings. It's a job very few people choose to do for life, and a job that needs to attract the highest quality professsionals. If people didn't want to be teachers before, why the fuck would they want to now?

Welcome to the real world!!!

Our lass is a teacher too and they do not know that they are born. On the picket line over necesarry pension reforms and been asked to "toil" for an extra one hour every week .

[merkin]

grimois

that mortgage example is bollocks - it just wouldn't happen - the agreed term is the agreed term.

no worker has a totally fixed agreement for life.

I feel sorry for those southern americans - they thought they would have slaves forever the poor bastards. that wasn't the deal they signed up for...

[popterriertastic]

If you can do....teach!

Harsh but true I'm afraid

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Jun 30, 2011 7:50:36 GMT 1 merkin said:

grimois

that mortgage example is bollocks - it just wouldn't happen - the agreed term is the agreed term.

no worker has a totally fixed agreement for life.

I feel sorry for those southern americans - they thought they would have slaves forever the poor bastards. that wasn't the deal they signed up for...

It's not bollocks at all - it's a hypothetical argument to illustrate what's happening. Simple fact is that private pensions providers wouldn't get away with it, yet the government can. And the funny thing is they've done fuck all about their own index linked final salary pensions whatsoever, while the average teacher will be over £150 a month worse off under this scheme, before other things like inflation etc have an impact as well.

Perhaps we should spend more time and effort sorting out recouping taxes owed by improving HMRC and tightening tax avoidance laws, estimated to cist the UK anything from £14 billion to £25 billion a year.

Or the £42 billion a year charged in tax that does not get collected?

And this is only going to get worse, as the tax experts at HMRC are public sector workers, getting the shaft over pensions, and are therefore more likely to move to the private sector and strip the HMRC of the expertise they need.

Unsurprisingly, much like the last one, this governement makes short sighted policies that are ill conceived, badly executed, and targeted at the wrong people.

It's clear, however, that the media coverage and spin put out by Cameron, Osbourne and Gove has sucked in many people, and that people just believe what they are told. Fine, but I like to think I'm less naive than that.

[thrice]

Jun 30, 2011 8:26:52 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

Jun 30, 2011 7:50:36 GMT 1 merkin said:

grimois

that mortgage example is bollocks - it just wouldn't happen - the agreed term is the agreed term.

no worker has a totally fixed agreement for life.

I feel sorry for those southern americans - they thought they would have slaves forever the poor bastards. that wasn't the deal they signed up for...

It's not bollocks at all - it's a hypothetical argument to illustrate what's happening. Simple fact is that private pensions providers wouldn't get away with it, yet the government can. And the funny thing is they've done fuck all about their own index linked final salary pensions whatsoever, while the average teacher will be over £150 a month worse off under this scheme, before other things like inflation etc have an impact as well.

Perhaps we should spend more time and effort sorting out recouping taxes owed by improving HMRC and tightening tax avoidance laws, estimated to cist the UK anything from £14 billion to £25 billion a year.

Or the £42 billion a year charged in tax that does not get collected?

And this is only going to get worse, as the tax experts at HMRC are public sector workers, getting the shaft over pensions, and are therefore more likely to move to the private sector and strip the HMRC of the expertise they need.

Unsurprisingly, much like the last one, this governement makes short sighted policies that are ill conceived, badly executed, and targeted at the wrong people.

It's clear, however, that the media coverage and spin put out by Cameron, Osbourne and Gove has sucked in many people, and that people just believe what they are told. Fine, but I like to think I'm less naive than that.

The proof will be in the pudding.

Lets see if all these intelligent, hardworking & professional teachers now opt to leave the public sector and enrich the eutopia that is the private sector because of the terrible circumstances that they have been forced into ::

[fgrfc_dan]

Why are people bothering to argue with merkin? Haven't they learnt?

[brispie]

I watched Made in Dagenham recently. Wish it was still like that. We'd bring this government down in no time at all.

[fgrfc_dan]

Jun 30, 2011 9:12:10 GMT 1 brispie said:

I watched Made in Dagenham recently. Wish it was still like that. We'd bring this government down in no time at all.

You'd stab yourself in the eye if you thought it'd piss someone else off.

[GroveR]

If your main motivation in taking up a profession is a government-backed final salary pension after seeing what Gordon Brown did to the private sector in his first budget you're an idiot.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Jun 30, 2011 8:40:14 GMT 1 thrice said:

Jun 30, 2011 8:26:52 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

It's not bollocks at all - it's a hypothetical argument to illustrate what's happening. Simple fact is that private pensions providers wouldn't get away with it, yet the government can. And the funny thing is they've done fuck all about their own index linked final salary pensions whatsoever, while the average teacher will be over £150 a month worse off under this scheme, before other things like inflation etc have an impact as well.

Perhaps we should spend more time and effort sorting out recouping taxes owed by improving HMRC and tightening tax avoidance laws, estimated to cist the UK anything from £14 billion to £25 billion a year.

Or the £42 billion a year charged in tax that does not get collected?

And this is only going to get worse, as the tax experts at HMRC are public sector workers, getting the shaft over pensions, and are therefore more likely to move to the private sector and strip the HMRC of the expertise they need.

Unsurprisingly, much like the last one, this governement makes short sighted policies that are ill conceived, badly executed, and targeted at the wrong people.

It's clear, however, that the media coverage and spin put out by Cameron, Osbourne and Gove has sucked in many people, and that people just believe what they are told. Fine, but I like to think I'm less naive than that.

The proof will be in the pudding.

Lets see if all these intelligent, hardworking & professional teachers now opt to leave the public sector and enrich the eutopia that is the private sector because of the terrible circumstances that they have been forced into

I left univeristy 10 years ago this year with a mickey mouse degree (almost literally). I coasted through uni, and since then have managed to get a series of increasingly hifgher paid jobs through simply being quite good at my job, and being confident and clever enough to interview well. In ten years I have never had the same job for more than 30 months, and have pretty much tripled the salary I had in my first job.

So, for some at least, the private secotor is a pretty damned easy place to be.

I'm not saying for a minute I don't work hard (between posting on here), and not everyone could do my job, but I still maintain that most people I know in the provate sector have it easier than most teachers. And obviously I'm not saying that they are doing back breaking manual labour, or curing cancer, but they do a tough job in not great conditions, with little thanks.

In case I haven't made it clear, I support their strike action.

They look after our kids while we can't, given them a nurturing environment, an education and play nurse maid, agony aunt, parent and social worker to kids who often show little gratitude, with praents who often show less and a government that seems determiend to make their job harder every day.

So I :respect: teachers..... :appl: :appl:

[Bernie]

Wish it was still like that. We'd bring this government down in no time at all.

It's worth noting, that in the sort of communist hell-hole fifth columnist traitors like Bry-Spy and Grimois would have this once glorious nation (not Sweden, you know what I mean) turned into, as exemplified by Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, teachers were first up against the wall.

So think long and hard about that comrades, before moaning about your pension (Pol) Pot.

(Returns to reading three day old Daily Mail while waiting for the steamer from Harwich to bring yesterday's. Kicks a native)

Edit - Isn't "Made in Dagenham" one of those awful, cutesy post-Full Monty films about old ladies from the WI making a starkers calendar to raise money for striking families or something? I'd rather jam fifteen feet of razor wire down my jap's eye then pull it out again than watch a nanosecond of that sort of shit)

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Jun 30, 2011 10:01:19 GMT 1 Bernie said:

Wish it was still like that. We'd bring this government down in no time at all.

It's worth noting, that in the sort of communist hell-hole fifth columnist traitors like Bry-Spy and Grimois would have this once glorious nation (not Sweden, you know what I mean) turned into, as exemplified by Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, teachers were first up against the wall.

So think long and hard about that comrades, before moaning about your pension (Pol) Pot.

(Returns to reading three day old Daily Mail while waiting for the steamer from Harwich to bring yesterday's. Kicks a native)

Edit - Isn't "Made in Dagenham" one of those awful, cutesy post-Full Monty films about old ladies from the WI making a starkers calendar to raise money for striking families or something? I'd rather jam fifteen feet of razor wire down my jap's eye then pull it out again than watch a nanosecond of that sort of shit)

Far from communist Bernie - communism is totally flawed. Not even a socialist. Just believe in a fair deal.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Jun 30, 2011 9:32:15 GMT 1 GroveR said:

If your main motivation in taking up a profession is a government-backed final salary pension after seeing what Gordon Brown did to the private sector in his first budget you're an idiot.

And what about people who've been teaching for 30+ years, long before Mr Brown's glass eye lost it's sheen?

[merkin]

don't they keep what they have accrued?

[GroveR]

The same.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Jun 30, 2011 12:17:27 GMT 1 merkin said:

don't they keep what they have accrued?

They do, but have to accept the changes - it basically means that you could have been teaching for 35 years, happilly planning your retirement, and then have to work 3 or 4 more years for less money and a worse pension.

[denby]

Jun 30, 2011 8:26:52 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

Simple fact is that private pensions providers wouldn't get away with it, yet the government can.

there is so much wrong with this sentence i can't even be bothered to start wittering on about it

oh, and teachers are paid a handsome salary. i've never met a bigger bunch of moaners, well, apart from on my visits to fortress blundell park

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

Well, what have I learned on this thread?

you can't educate pork, frankly....

a handsome salary? BS. Compared to shelf stackers, yes. compared to sales executives, corporate middle management and the like? No.

[denby]

Jun 30, 2011 12:45:44 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

a handsome salary? BS. Compared to shelf stackers, yes. compared to sales executives, corporate middle management and the like? No.

handsome, in respect of what they do

[daleylama]

If teachers are so hard done by they should go for fucking sales executive jobs or corporate middle man jobs which are obviously higher paid and evidently easier.

[daleylama]

p.s.

If teachers are so under-paid and over-worked, why isn't there a derth of people still becoming teachers these days?

When there is a national teacher shortage then and only then will I recognise that teaching is under-paid.

Market forces influencing the public sector, whoda thunk it.