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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 20:20:56 GMT 1
It's not a positive for his readiness, whatever way you look at it. Hopefully he's still learnt some new things and 'if' he did have any false expectations this and Yeovil may be a wake up call. I'm ready for some stick from some posters I respect, but I really think some time focusing on his core strength (and that doesn't mean filling him with Guiness and getting him doing bench presses!) would be my priority. Before anyone mentions other young players, Holmes has not developed physically, not even compared to Wilshire in his Bolton days. could be going on loan at scunthorpe attitude is a factor but we shall see
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Post by Larry David on Oct 29, 2014 20:28:49 GMT 1
A massively overrated player in my opinion and he won't be here after the summer.
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Post by Mr Breitside on Oct 29, 2014 21:28:25 GMT 1
A lot of people wrote bunn off and said he had only got a deal due to his dad being employed by the club. Don't write these youngsters off too early, especially those who still need to mature physically.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 29, 2014 22:45:16 GMT 1
We can hardly say he's failed at Bury if he's not been given a chance to impress. Best place for him is back here or possibly a loan to Scunthorpe where there's a chance that Bobbins will at least recognize his potential.
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Post by ritchie on Oct 29, 2014 23:16:19 GMT 1
The datm pendulum really gathering momentum now
FFS. problem is people got overexcited when he was fast tracked into the first team, and now as usual are going way ott the other way. if he'd not been given those few apps and was impressing in the development squad people would more than likely still have every hope for him...last chance saloon?? as ive said many times he still a young kid and it might take a few loans before you can judge him...i dont think thats 'making excuses for him' its just taking into account players develop different. like mentioned, most would have let bunn go and i dont remember hunt doing much at grays athletic then went to chesterfield in a higher league and the rest is history
people need to realise the club are trying to develop players and if it means being patient with some players in the hope that they develop then thats what will happen. i wouldnt be letting someone with his potential go any time soon when the lad is barely 20, on low wages, and will most likely develop a little later than bigger lads. not saying he will make it but its far too early to tell...unless a better, younger player comes through in his position i would keep him around for a while yet
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 0:02:27 GMT 1
He has only started seven games in his career. Five at Yeovil and two with us.
In total (including 23 sub apps) he's played just over 10 full games worth of first team football.
Attitude, performance in training aside, there is nowhere near enough action to write him off yet on ability alone.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Oct 30, 2014 8:29:03 GMT 1
We can hardly say he's failed at Bury if he's not been given a chance to impress. Best place for him is back here or possibly a loan to Scunthorpe where there's a chance that Bobbins will at least recognize his potential. Agree, send him to ork with Mr charisma at bottom of league team so the lad sees what real work is like. All these pampering comments over him are frankly wrong.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Oct 30, 2014 8:33:04 GMT 1
We can hardly say he's failed at Bury if he's not been given a chance to impress. Best place for him is back here or possibly a loan to Scunthorpe where there's a chance that Bobbins will at least recognize his potential. He was at Yeovil for a month before they packed his bags for him, he has been at Bury two months before they'd seen enough, he is clearly not good enough for our 1st team squad (at the moment) - I think he has been given every chance - he is just not good enough! Several different managers have looked at him, he clearly has skills but none of them rate him highly enough to risk giving him significant game time (let alone starting him). I do agree with ritchie though, he is still young enough to improve, I really hope he can because his attacking skils are excellent, but it is ridiculous to say he asn't been given a chance!
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DannyG
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Post by DannyG on Oct 30, 2014 9:19:41 GMT 1
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 30, 2014 11:26:34 GMT 1
We can hardly say he's failed at Bury if he's not been given a chance to impress. Best place for him is back here or possibly a loan to Scunthorpe where there's a chance that Bobbins will at least recognize his potential. He was at Yeovil for a month before they packed his bags for him, he has been at Bury two months before they'd seen enough, he is clearly not good enough for our 1st team squad (at the moment) - I think he has been given every chance - he is just not good enough! Several different managers have looked at him, he clearly has skills but none of them rate him highly enough to risk giving him significant game time (let alone starting him). I do agree with ritchie though, he is still young enough to improve, I really hope he can because his attacking skils are excellent, but it is ridiculous to say he asn't been given a chance! He hasn't been given any significant game time so how can he show what he can do? There may be good reasons for this such as the fact that Bury are near the top of the league so isn't it possible that the guy(s) he'd replace in the team are bang on form. Look at Majewski. He can't even get on our bench but was good enough to score a hatrick for Forest against us the season before last. Gerrard is another who can't even get on our bench (I'd have him in before Lynch any day). There are loads of good players in most squads who can't get games because there's only 11 places in a team. Holmes was good enough to play (starts & subs) in 25 Championship games last season. So I say once again he hasn't been given a chance at Bury!
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Post by teddytheterrier on Jan 19, 2015 10:18:30 GMT 1
What's happened to Duane Holmes exactly? After that Blackpool game last season he was going to be the next big thing? Not happened for him!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 10:56:34 GMT 1
We can hardly say he's failed at Bury if he's not been given a chance to impress. Best place for him is back here or possibly a loan to Scunthorpe where there's a chance that Bobbins will at least recognize his potential. He was at Yeovil for a month before they packed his bags for him, he has been at Bury two months before they'd seen enough, he is clearly not good enough for our 1st team squad (at the moment) - I think he has been given every chance - he is just not good enough! Several different managers have looked at him, he clearly has skills but none of them rate him highly enough to risk giving him significant game time (let alone starting him). I do agree with ritchie though, he is still young enough to improve, I really hope he can because his attacking skils are excellent, but it is ridiculous to say he asn't been given a chance! Despite obviously being skilful etc....unless he develops these attributes into something exceptional, to compensate for his child like physique, I don't see how he's ever going to be playable in the first team.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Jan 19, 2015 16:29:19 GMT 1
He was at Yeovil for a month before they packed his bags for him, he has been at Bury two months before they'd seen enough, he is clearly not good enough for our 1st team squad (at the moment) - I think he has been given every chance - he is just not good enough! Several different managers have looked at him, he clearly has skills but none of them rate him highly enough to risk giving him significant game time (let alone starting him). I do agree with ritchie though, he is still young enough to improve, I really hope he can because his attacking skils are excellent, but it is ridiculous to say he asn't been given a chance! Despite obviously being skilful etc....unless he develops these attributes into something exceptional, to compensate for his child like physique, I don't see how he's ever going to be playable in the first team. Good God, don't tell Frankiesleftpeg that, you'll never shake him off, he thinks Holmes should be first choice selection because he is......."young" and "might be a good player" if he is only "given a chance"! Can you overdo inverted comma's, anyone?
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jan 19, 2015 16:33:04 GMT 1
'''''no'''''
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jan 19, 2015 16:54:24 GMT 1
I think Holmes is doing very well for the U21's - however, he currently finds his road to the first team blocked By Butterfield and Majweski. And IMO he rightly is behind both of them, hopefully his development can continue and I for one, aren't ready to write him off yet, he was introduced when we didn't have a run at them attacking midfielder and had initial success in that role when we were chasing the home game against Blackpool. IMO he was thrust in to start the derby match against L666s last season in an unfamiliar position, similar to what Robins also did with Crooks in the opener this season.
I think it is vitally important to try and help these youngsters achieve you put them in with every chance to succeed and with the exception of Tommy Smith. Robins failed to do so with Bunn, Holmes, Sinnott and Crooks. Thankfully Bunn was reintroduced correctly by Lillis following Robins departure. Didn't Sinnott have a decent spell the year before under Lillis between Grayson and Robins.
The more I think how Robins used these kids, Scannell and Wells as a lone striker, I can't help thinking that his philosophy was hindering Town, maybe I am doing him a misservice as he did get a good first half of the season out of Hammill and a fully fit Vaughan. It's clear that CP didn't rate Hammill and Gerrard is in a similar boat.
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Post by benmsmith4 on Jan 19, 2015 17:08:14 GMT 1
Need to get these lads out on loan, preferably to a club known for developing young players eg Crewe. It's nice seeing them win week in week out in the U21s but it's even more pleasing seeing them play first team football.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Jan 19, 2015 17:40:54 GMT 1
The problem is that, when they DO go out on loan, they are not getting game time. Now, is this because the side they are going to won't play them in favour of their own, possibly home-grown, players or because they are, basically, not good enough to play for a 2nd Div side?
If it's the latter, they may not be close to playing for OUR 1st team, and is there really any point in them warming someone else's bench?
Specifically regarding Holmes, there is so much about his attacking play which is exciting and refreshing but, while he can dominate at U21 level, he just doesn't seem to be pushing on?
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jan 19, 2015 17:53:57 GMT 1
The problem is that, when they DO go out on loan, they are not getting game time. Now, is this because the side they are going to won't play them in favour of their own, possibly home-grown, players or because they are, basically, not good enough to play for a 2nd Div side? If it's the latter, they may not be close to playing for OUR 1st team, and is there really any point in them warming someone else's bench? Specifically regarding Holmes, there is so much about his attacking play which is exciting and refreshing but, while he can dominate at U21 level, he just doesn't seem to be pushing on? There's time for him yet as he's only just turned 20, but my concern is that Powell doesn't seem to want to give any of the youngsters a chance. Putting Billing & Crookes on the bench with no intention of playing them isn't giving them a chance. Even Lolley who's that bit older can't seem to get more than 10 minutes. He had a perfect opportunity on Saturday to give Billing a go when Hogg went off but instead chose to put a full back in there instead (nowt against Peltier by the way).
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jan 19, 2015 19:07:00 GMT 1
The problem is that, when they DO go out on loan, they are not getting game time. Now, is this because the side they are going to won't play them in favour of their own, possibly home-grown, players or because they are, basically, not good enough to play for a 2nd Div side? If it's the latter, they may not be close to playing for OUR 1st team, and is there really any point in them warming someone else's bench? Specifically regarding Holmes, there is so much about his attacking play which is exciting and refreshing but, while he can dominate at U21 level, he just doesn't seem to be pushing on? To be seen to be pushing on, he needs appearances and he isn't likely to unseat Butterfield any time soon. Next season I would hope that with Majewski returning to Forest, he will be a viable option from the bench every week and the first to replace Butterfield should the need arise. The following season is when ideally he would be challenging Butterfield and giving the manager a decision to make regarding him or Butterfield.
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Post by benhomly on Jan 19, 2015 19:22:40 GMT 1
Need to get these lads out on loan, preferably to a club known for developing young players eg Crewe. It's nice seeing them win week in week out in the U21s but it's even more pleasing seeing them play first team football. I don't think Crewe's ethos is to develop other people's young players I think they'd rather do it with their own!
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Post by Essex Terrier on Jan 19, 2015 20:13:33 GMT 1
The problem is that, when they DO go out on loan, they are not getting game time. Now, is this because the side they are going to won't play them in favour of their own, possibly home-grown, players or because they are, basically, not good enough to play for a 2nd Div side? If it's the latter, they may not be close to playing for OUR 1st team, and is there really any point in them warming someone else's bench? Specifically regarding Holmes, there is so much about his attacking play which is exciting and refreshing but, while he can dominate at U21 level, he just doesn't seem to be pushing on? To be seen to be pushing on, he needs appearances and he isn't likely to unseat Butterfield any time soon. Next season I would hope that with Majewski returning to Forest, he will be a viable option from the bench every week and the first to replace Butterfield should the need arise. The following season is when ideally he would be challenging Butterfield and giving the manager a decision to make regarding him or Butterfield. All good points, well made and accepted (just don't tell Frankiesleftpeg!!)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 20:22:15 GMT 1
Need to get these lads out on loan, preferably to a club known for developing young players eg Crewe. It's nice seeing them win week in week out in the U21s but it's even more pleasing seeing them play first team football. I don't think Crewe's ethos is to develop other people's young players I think they'd rather do it with their own! CORRECT
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Post by terrierpark on Jan 19, 2015 21:17:50 GMT 1
square pegs round hole philosophy is alive and kicking at our club and should be the new clubs motto , in latin of course.
Quadratum Paxillos Rotunda Foramina
Sean Scanell has played several times as a striker, we have a striker injured and a winger begging for game time on the bench. We already have a strong midfield with 3 ctrl mid players and just 1 winger , so what does he do? brings a rt back on. Not the first time. At Norwich after the sending off, the answer was bring Vaughan and gerrard on and take wells and holt off as Vaughan is the only striker who can play a lone role. you have replaced your ctre back and maintained a goal threat. still what do i know eh.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 22:33:48 GMT 1
Despite obviously being skilful etc....unless he develops these attributes into something exceptional, to compensate for his child like physique, I don't see how he's ever going to be playable in the first team. Good God, don't tell Frankiesleftpeg that, you'll never shake him off, he thinks Holmes should be first choice selection because he is......."young" and "might be a good player" if he is only "given a chance"! Can you overdo inverted comma's, anyone? I won't tell him if you don't
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