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Post by Sio on Feb 7, 2016 0:35:07 GMT 1
But yeah, minus comments from the usual lunatics, I think you're right.
Of course we could do with rotation for Nahki (maybe Hiwula will provide this?); which I suspect we'll address in summer.
The 'need a striker' comment is just a wonderfully easy excuse for people to throw around when they're frustrated that we haven't won. If they thought about it and analysed the stats, they'd realise that defending is our problem.
Alongside defence, the primary culprits in the final third are the three sitting behind Nahki - THEY'RE the ones who need to start taking their chances more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 0:40:32 GMT 1
Defence or striker, it's kind of irrelevant. Maybe DW's style means we will concede and score more?
The problem is we need to score more than we concede. Being short on capable strikers AND defenders, we are struggling to do so. The fans have realised this for at least a year. The club are dragging their heels thinking we can survive on the cheap until the summer, with our depleted squad and loans.
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monkbar
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Post by monkbar on Feb 7, 2016 0:49:29 GMT 1
I'm kind of down the middle here. Our defence is shit, but if we put away more chances there'd be less pressure on our defence. We should have been 3 up today and a decent finisher would have seen us out of sight.
So, we either get a striker who has a better goals to chances ratio than Wells, (I've no idea who that would be or if we could afford him, but if we had Rhodes he would have over 20 goals based on Wells chances there is no doubt) or we sort out the defence which needs 2 or maybe 3 players. I imagine cash wise that's not too dissimilar.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 0:52:54 GMT 1
We've a Manager in post who's bringing a fresh perspective to so many things, yet we hit a bad patch and the usual doom-mongers on here are rolling out the negative vibes...
So many people on here don't seem to have the ability to grasp the bigger picture & understand we're still a work in progress...
Marcus et al, any night after losing a game...
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Post by harris on Feb 7, 2016 1:05:27 GMT 1
Good post, our defence is weak and has been since we came back to the championship. Yes we would've won today if we took more of our chances but we would've also won if we had a capable defence. Frustrating as everybody at the game today could see we got robbed. Just need to stay up this year build in the summer and hopefully push on next year
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Post by shawsie on Feb 7, 2016 8:33:20 GMT 1
New left and right back and centre half in an ideal world in the summer but we create that many chances that we bugger up that for me a striker is a big priority too. If wells gets injured then what!!? Couldn't agree more Kosi The full back area gets highlighted now because when Chilwell was here suddenly we looked a new side. If we could get two decent ones we'd be transformed.......Davidson I'm not sure is good enough, and whilst smith has improved the same is true for me. Add to that a centre back, a striker to give options and a better footballing version of Hogg and bingo!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 8:51:11 GMT 1
New left and right back and centre half in an ideal world in the summer but we create that many chances that we bugger up that for me a striker is a big priority too. If wells gets injured then what!!? Couldn't agree more Kosi The full back area gets highlighted now because when Chilwell was here suddenly we looked a new side. If we could get two decent ones we'd be transformed.......Davidson I'm not sure is good enough, and whilst smith has improved the same is true for me. Add to that a centre back, a striker to give options and a better footballing version of Hogg and bingo! Who's bingo? Can he play left back??
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Post by dugnet on Feb 7, 2016 9:15:57 GMT 1
The original post is correct but we do need a striker too, no point dwelling on it though as there's little we can do unless a loan miracle appears.
We have also known we need to strengthen the defence and we haven't.
Sadly the bottom line is, we are where we are and we need to get on with it.
Sorry but it ain't changing greatly now before May, accept it and keep going.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Feb 7, 2016 9:21:34 GMT 1
Crying screaming dying for one imo Wells does his best DW talks of rotatation but Wells has to play every single game ? German managers must be the same as his mates liverpool team totally threw a 2 goal lead away, cant defend just like us.
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Yorkie
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Post by Yorkie on Feb 7, 2016 9:57:36 GMT 1
Scored in 14 games in a row but kept only 2 clean sheets. Our full backs are just not good enough, Husband could be but maybe not in a Wagner team. Also despite Hudson's improvement we don't have a 3rd proper centre back. Our attackers shouldn't have to go into games thinking they need 3 goals to win a game!
As for the striker argument, Liverpool play Fermino up top and Chelsea play Hazard every now and again. We have Bunn/Elvis/Matmour who could if needed play there. Not ideal but I think this is what Wagner is thinking with the players he brought in.
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Post by isitjustme on Feb 7, 2016 10:45:19 GMT 1
The facts are simple. If you are going to concede at least two per game, then we are going to have to stick three away ourselves. We clearly have the creativity to supply these chances, but as much as I like Nahki, and he has proved capable of hitting the back of the net, too many of the chances created don't end up there. With a half decent defence, Nahki is good enough for us. With a defence this leaky, he isn't. So you either concentrate finances toward one shit hot striker addition, or completely reassemble the defence. I know neither would be easy or cheap, but that's the dilemma that needs working out one way or another. Not going to happen this season now. So lets just hope we have enough for now. For me, I think we just about do have, and then on to next season.
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Feb 7, 2016 10:50:36 GMT 1
On the other hand, listening to Wagner after the game yesterday, he CLEARLY lays the blame for the defeat at the door of the strikers. He maintains (correctly) that we made "enough chances to have scored three, four or five goals" (his words, not mine) before PNE scored and he thinks that they should have made the PNE goals irrelevant. He most definitely is expecting the forwards to be far more clinical, but we suffer from 'Andy Cole Syndrome' and I would guess that that is where the bulk of the training will go. We create chances by the bucketful but need all of those chances to score just one or two, whereas the opposition regularly carve out only a very few chances but manage to stick them in.
Not trying to exonerate our defence completely, but I believe that he is right; the major fault lies up front.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Feb 7, 2016 10:52:32 GMT 1
On the other hand, listening to Wagner after the game yesterday, he CLEARLY lays the blame for the defeat at the door of the strikers. He maintains (correctly) that we made "enough chances to have scored three, four or five goals" (his words, not mine) before PNE scored and he thinks that they should have made the PNE goals irrelevant. He most definitely is expecting the forwards to be far more clinical, but we suffer from 'Andy Cole Syndrome' and I would guess that that is where the bulk of the training will go. We create chances by the bucketful but need all of those chances to score just one or two, whereas the opposition regularly carve out only a very few chances but manage to stick them in. Not trying to exonerate our defence completely, but I believe that he is right; the major fault lies up front. I went Roger, totally threw it away. We should of been a few infront. Poor game plan when we took the lead.
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Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Feb 7, 2016 10:56:42 GMT 1
Without wanting to do our own players down .. where is the evidence for this "obvious talent " that Jordy Hiwula has ? I think he was probably called back to give Wagner a look at him. We may well see him leave in the summer if Wagner is not keen.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 7, 2016 11:02:01 GMT 1
So let me get this right, if we stop conceding goals all of a sudden at the other end we're going to be banging them in, Wells will become a 20 goal a season man? No it won't, we'll probably be treated to a load of 0-0 draws or 1-0 wins. I get the point about addressing the defence but I really don't think that alone will solve our problems up front. We have ONE reliable striker most squads in this league operate with 4. I think maybe we should be addressing both areas.
None of that would have helped yesterday, we missed a stack of chances.
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Post by kennyk2 on Feb 7, 2016 11:05:17 GMT 1
Nixon: Huddersfield. Interest in Ryan Gauld is legit. May try to do a deal soon for the summer. Will be rivals. Not really an out and out striker - attacking midfielder. Nixon also says that Brentford will try to sign Paterson - I'm assuming it's our Paterson. Perhaps Gauld might be a replacement.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 11:09:38 GMT 1
We've a Manager in post who's bringing a fresh perspective to so many things, yet we hit a bad patch and the usual doom-mongers on here are rolling out the negative vibes... So many people on here don't seem to have the ability to grasp the bigger picture & understand we're still a work in progress... Marcus et al, any night after losing a game... At what point would you change your mind? 6 losses in a row? When we end up in the relegation places? When would the optimist spirit run dry?
As the season progresses I think our squad will suffer more than most due to the fitness and energy needed for this style, coupled with lack of cover in vital areas for proper squad rotation.
Add on the fact that there is very little we can do to strengthen now for the rest of the season and this year certainly wont be boring as we approach the end of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 11:10:47 GMT 1
Nixon: Huddersfield. Interest in Ryan Gauld is legit. May try to do a deal soon for the summer. Will be rivals. Not really an out and out striker - attacking midfielder. Nixon also says that Brentford will try to sign Paterson - I'm assuming it's our Paterson. Perhaps Gauld might be a replacement. Another attacking midfielder who's not really an out and out striker? I suppose at least 3 will be returning from loan though...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 11:19:37 GMT 1
Completely fed up of this comment. We do not need a striker, far from it. Nahki Wells has 11 league goals so far this season, the 5th most amount in the league (that's more than Jordan Rhodes, by the way). He is more than capable of leading the line and being the first choice striker in a team pushing the top half/play offs. We now have Hiwula who has obvious talent as a back up and to put pressure on Nahki which can only make him better. Only 5 teams have scored more goals than us in the league us this season so far... FIVE. Yet we are in 17th position with a GD of -4. Why? Because only 5 teams have let more goals in! It couldn't be more clear that we need to invest in a defence this summer as a #1 priority. Our problem is not scoring goals it is conceding them. So can we change the tune from 'we need a striker' to 'we need a bloody defence!' But then if Nakhi/was out of form/got injured/got tired then we would be knackered. We have one decent, recognised out and out striker at the club. Of course we need another striker.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 11:33:05 GMT 1
Bollocks, anyone who thinks we do not need another striker is clearly on mind bending drugs. We have ONE striker, we've got Hiwula bit he is unknown, Bojaj unknown. Seriously give your head a shake. We missed a stack of chances today, it can't be allowed to continue, its hurting us big time. Did you even read the post or any of the replies? We have scored more goals than Middlesbrough! Yes we need backup for Wells (which we have currently) and i have absolutely no doubt that we will bring in another in the summer. You will always get games where you miss loads of chances and don't get what you deserve i.e today, but the main problem is clearly our goals against column, or maybe it's the 'mind bending drugs' talking. Didn't Wagner state '"We need to be more clinical" after yesterday? He's said this before. if we'd been more clinical today, it sounds as though we could have put the game to bed, well before Preston scored, so paradoxically, you could argue we lost the game every bit because of our lack of options up front, as much as lack of quality in defence. The "back up for wells" statement irritates me slightly. We need another quality striker to push Wells for his place and step in to do a similar job when picked, not just be a back up. Talk about a lack of ambition. Of course - totally agree we need a couple of defenders as well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 11:37:55 GMT 1
On the other hand, listening to Wagner after the game yesterday, he CLEARLY lays the blame for the defeat at the door of the strikers. He maintains (correctly) that we made "enough chances to have scored three, four or five goals" (his words, not mine) before PNE scored and he thinks that they should have made the PNE goals irrelevant. He most definitely is expecting the forwards to be far more clinical, but we suffer from 'Andy Cole Syndrome' and I would guess that that is where the bulk of the training will go. We create chances by the bucketful but need all of those chances to score just one or two, whereas the opposition regularly carve out only a very few chances but manage to stick them in. Not trying to exonerate our defence completely, but I believe that he is right; the major fault lies up front. Sorry MT, I feel like I may have repeated you a bit here (above)
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Post by jqhtfc on Feb 7, 2016 11:37:59 GMT 1
Looking to buy gauld not loan according to Nixon
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 7, 2016 11:46:59 GMT 1
Another thing, Bojaj needs to be given more game time, he clearly knows where the back of the net is and as I suspect that we won't be buying a more than one striker in the summer, he needs to be more involved, instead of 5 minutes here and there, as does Hiwula. No one knows what Hiwula can do, we've seen a bit of him in the Notts cup tie but that's it.
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Post by H7 on Feb 7, 2016 11:56:12 GMT 1
Completely fed up of this comment. We do not need a striker, far from it. Nahki Wells has 11 league goals so far this season, the 5th most amount in the league (that's more than Jordan Rhodes, by the way). He is more than capable of leading the line and being the first choice striker in a team pushing the top half/play offs. We now have Hiwula who has obvious talent as a back up and to put pressure on Nahki which can only make him better. Only 5 teams have scored more goals than us in the league us this season so far... FIVE. Yet we are in 17th position with a GD of -4. Why? Because only 5 teams have let more goals in! It couldn't be more clear that we need to invest in a defence this summer as a #1 priority. Our problem is not scoring goals it is conceding them. So can we change the tune from 'we need a striker' to 'we need a bloody defence!' But then if Nakhi/was out of form/got injured/got tired then we would be knackered. We have one decent, recognised out and out striker at the club. Of course we need another striker. This has been covered earlier in the thread. Everyone knows of course we need to strengthen options up front and I've no doubt we will. The point is if you're the leagues 6th highest scorers but sitting in 17th the overall issue lies with your defence.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Feb 7, 2016 11:59:59 GMT 1
So let me get this right, if we stop conceding goals all of a sudden at the other end we're going to be banging them in, Wells will become a 20 goal a season man? No it won't, we'll probably be treated to a load of 0-0 draws or 1-0 wins. I get the point about addressing the defence but I really don't think that alone will solve our problems up front. We have ONE reliable striker most squads in this league operate with 4. I think maybe we should be addressing both areas. None of that would have helped yesterday, we missed a stack of chances. Agree we're clearly shorter than most and to a level it should be discussed, but suggesting we have one whilst most others have four is crackers beyond words. Where have you pulled this fact from? What standard do you think the second and third choice strikers at most of these clubs is? Do even you believe it?
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Post by Horney Barry on Feb 7, 2016 12:03:54 GMT 1
We do need a second striker but I agree with the post and our defence.
If Wells gets injured then what natural goalscorer would we play up front? We haven't got one.
We need to spend decent money this summer. When you look back to the last time we were doing well in the championship we had spent some decent money on defenders.
Craig Armstrong £500k Chris Lucketti £750k Andy Morrison £500k
These were prices from 10 years ago too...
So I'm thinking we've got £5m to spend in the summer after Butterfield £4m upfront, Smithies £1.25m upfront plus a few add ons from Rhodes (not sure we've had last £2m instalment either)
New CB/Captain £750k New CB £500k New LB £500k New CM £500k New Striker £2.5m
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 12:06:49 GMT 1
But then if Nakhi/was out of form/got injured/got tired then we would be knackered. We have one decent, recognised out and out striker at the club. Of course we need another striker. This has been covered earlier in the thread. Everyone knows of course we need to strengthen options up front and I've no doubt we will. The point is if you're the leagues 6th highest scorers but sitting in 17th the overall issue lies with your defence. Sorry, haven't had time to read everything earlier. But didn't you state above "we do not need another striker, far from it"..? This sounds a bit contradictory to what your saying now. Unless you changed your mind and I missed that as well, (how embarrassing for me) Strengthening the defence and forward options are not mutually exclusive, we need to do both.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 7, 2016 12:08:37 GMT 1
So let me get this right, if we stop conceding goals all of a sudden at the other end we're going to be banging them in, Wells will become a 20 goal a season man? No it won't, we'll probably be treated to a load of 0-0 draws or 1-0 wins. I get the point about addressing the defence but I really don't think that alone will solve our problems up front. We have ONE reliable striker most squads in this league operate with 4. I think maybe we should be addressing both areas. None of that would have helped yesterday, we missed a stack of chances. Agree we're clearly shorter than most and to a level it should be discussed, but suggesting we have one whilst most others have four is crackers beyond words. Where have you pulled this fact from? What standard do you think the second and third choice strikers at most of these clubs is? Do even you believe it? Just for example, I checked Blackburn's squad, another struggler, they have 4 strikers Danny Graham, Tony Watt, Simeon Jackson and Chris Brown (whoever he is?).
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Post by Headless Chicken on Feb 7, 2016 12:20:31 GMT 1
Agree we're clearly shorter than most and to a level it should be discussed, but suggesting we have one whilst most others have four is crackers beyond words. Where have you pulled this fact from? What standard do you think the second and third choice strikers at most of these clubs is? Do even you believe it? Just for example, I checked Blackburn's squad, another struggler, they have 4 strikers Danny Graham, Tony Watt, Simeon Jackson and Chris Brown (whoever he is?). Ok- so you've picked one of the stronger teams around us, but not necessarily an issue with this. Tony Watt- fair call, I actually said I'd like him here. Graham- again, fair enough. Seems to be dropping off, but wouldn't complain as back-up. Simeon Jackson- hmmmm pushing the 'reliable' tag a lot. Chris Brown- you don't even know who he is! I don't either It took years for DATM to stop expecting a 30 AND a 20 goal a season striker, so things have got more reasonable on here
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Post by AndySk on Feb 7, 2016 12:23:33 GMT 1
Personally believe we're light in defence and up front. Something that's not really been addressed in the last 3 transfer windows
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