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Post by morleyterrier on Jan 14, 2017 5:21:43 GMT 1
If ever a team epitomises how spending shitloads of money every season can still land you up with a shit Team (relative to what it should be), it's Derby County. Watched that game vs Leeds last night and boy they were shite, shocking. I couldn't believe what I was seeing they were so bad. £6m was it for a Bradley Johnson?, there is not one Midfielder in our first Team squad he would get in ahead of. He looked League 1 at best.
Wednesday, another Team with a bottomless pit money wise. They just buy everybody and anybody that becomes available (you seen their Striking options?).
There is no way Clubs such as these are working within the constraints of financial fair play. I cannot imagine what their wage bill is.
How long can these Clubs sustain throwing money at it in huge wages they are tied to and big transfer fees paid year after year in pursuit of the greedy league?.
It's reckless what Clubs such as these are doing and I think it will catch up with them if (when) they don't get promoted (again).
By contrast I have no issue with Brighton getting promoted this season whatsoever, who of course spend a bit of money, but they are more shrewd, have a lot more class as a Club and are not solely relying on money to win matches such as Wednesday and Derby are.
To be fair Leeds, Huddersfield and although I am not keen, Reading all fall in to the same category as Brighton of not simply relying (blindly) on money in their pursuit of promotion. Have these Clubs relying on money ever heard of Team spirit?,hard work?, excellent coaching and tactics?. Based on Derby last night, the answer is no, they looked like a league 1 Club.
I think such as Norwich, Villa and Newcastle are a different dynamic as they have Premiership parachute money.
Leeds United gambled big time on a top 4 finish and finished 5th. Their downfall thereafter is well documented. It's only a matter of time till another Club with the gambling business model of such as Derby or a Wednesday will go the same way and it will be just rewards for their financial recklessness.
You can play roulette and pile the money on zero on the basis (and blind hope) it will come in after so many spins. Unfortunately, when it doesn't, the fall-out is always disastrous.
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Post by Marshleeds on Jan 14, 2017 7:15:48 GMT 1
Excellent post Morley and in total agreement that just throwing money at it is simply not the answer. You need to build from within and develop a team spirit where you can see players giving 100% for the shirt and looking like they care as much as their loyal supporters paying hard earned money do.We don't ask much but at least that as a minimum.
I know we have that now and judging by reports you have it too at Town. Isn't it great to feel proud of your team and manager for the effort they are putting in rather than the wages they are taking or stealing in some cases like Derby
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Yuta be a terrier
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Jan 14, 2017 7:37:27 GMT 1
I was having this conversation with a Leeds fan last week about Derby. Their scouting policy seems to be 'sign big names who were good 2 years ago'. There is little thought about the future with the business they do. They seem attracted to players who are always going to be expensive regardless of age or form. Bent, Nugent, Johnson, Carson, Vydra and at the time they signed him Ince are all examples of players who have had brilliant seasons previously and then dropped off the radar. All expensive, all with high wages but arguably (with the exception of Ince) players with their best form behind them. I look at Town (and Leeds to be fair) and we have a plan, a way of playing and an ethos for the future. Leeds have a brilliant academy who produce quality first teamers and with the exception of Hudson I think all of our first team are under 30. That performance against Port Vale shouldn't be dismissed last week as an easy game. What it demonstrates is that the squad has a DNA and even with 10 squad players in the first XI we play exactly the same way with the same results. I wouldn't swap want we have for Derbys 'chuck money at it policy' ever. Everyone thinks we will be the ones to fall away because we have the smallest budget and least glamorous squad but what they don't realise is we have a style and a way of playing that remains, regardless of score, position or pressure and it's why we are where we are. UTT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 10:08:58 GMT 1
Sheffield Wednesday subsidise their transfers by charging 40p per minute of football.
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Post by nez64 on Jan 14, 2017 12:11:09 GMT 1
Sheffield Wednesday subsidise their transfers by charging 40p per minute of football. And thats why i wont be going....utt |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Jan 14, 2017 12:37:44 GMT 1
If ever a team epitomises how spending shitloads of money every season can still land you up with a shit Team (relative to what it should be), it's Derby County. Watched that game vs Leeds last night and boy they were shite, shocking. I couldn't believe what I was seeing they were so bad. £6m was it for a Bradley Johnson?, there is not one Midfielder in our first Team squad he would get in ahead of. He looked League 1 at best. Wednesday, another Team with a bottomless pit money wise. They just buy everybody and anybody that becomes available (you seen their Striking options?). There is no way Clubs such as these are working within the constraints of financial fair play. I cannot imagine what their wage bill is. How long can these Clubs sustain throwing money at it in huge wages they are tied to and big transfer fees paid year after year in pursuit of the greedy league?. It's reckless what Clubs such as these are doing and I think it will catch up with them if (when) they don't get promoted (again). By contrast I have no issue with Brighton getting promoted this season whatsoever, who of course spend a bit of money, but they are more shrewd, have a lot more class as a Club and are not solely relying on money to win matches such as Wednesday and Derby are. To be fair Leeds, Huddersfield and although I am not keen, Reading all fall in to the same category as Brighton of not simply relying (blindly) on money in their pursuit of promotion. Have these Clubs relying on money ever heard of Team spirit?,hard work?, excellent coaching and tactics?. Based on Derby last night, the answer is no, they looked like a league 1 Club. I think such as Norwich, Villa and Newcastle are a different dynamic as they have Premiership parachute money. Leeds United gambled big time on a top 4 finish and finished 5th. Their downfall thereafter is well documented. It's only a matter of time till another Club with the gambling business model of such as Derby or a Wednesday will go the same way and it will be just rewards for their financial recklessness. You can play roulette and pile the money on zero on the basis (and blind hope) it will come in after so many spins. Unfortunately, when it doesn't, the fall-out is always disastrous. You sure about Reading, Morley? They spent barrow-loads in the last two or three seasons and are close now to being bankrupt because of over-spending. They even took last year's parachute payment early the previous season - at a cost - simply to cover their debts last season. They are kacking themselves over the proposed Chinese take-over possibly falling through. They're in a right mess - and I bloody love it!!   |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 12:43:02 GMT 1
If ever a team epitomises how spending shitloads of money every season can still land you up with a shit Team (relative to what it should be), it's Derby County. Watched that game vs Leeds last night and boy they were shite, shocking. I couldn't believe what I was seeing they were so bad. £6m was it for a Bradley Johnson?, there is not one Midfielder in our first Team squad he would get in ahead of. He looked League 1 at best. Wednesday, another Team with a bottomless pit money wise. They just buy everybody and anybody that becomes available (you seen their Striking options?). There is no way Clubs such as these are working within the constraints of financial fair play. I cannot imagine what their wage bill is. How long can these Clubs sustain throwing money at it in huge wages they are tied to and big transfer fees paid year after year in pursuit of the greedy league?. It's reckless what Clubs such as these are doing and I think it will catch up with them if (when) they don't get promoted (again). By contrast I have no issue with Brighton getting promoted this season whatsoever, who of course spend a bit of money, but they are more shrewd, have a lot more class as a Club and are not solely relying on money to win matches such as Wednesday and Derby are. To be fair Leeds, Huddersfield and although I am not keen, Reading all fall in to the same category as Brighton of not simply relying (blindly) on money in their pursuit of promotion. Have these Clubs relying on money ever heard of Team spirit?,hard work?, excellent coaching and tactics?. Based on Derby last night, the answer is no, they looked like a league 1 Club. I think such as Norwich, Villa and Newcastle are a different dynamic as they have Premiership parachute money. Leeds United gambled big time on a top 4 finish and finished 5th. Their downfall thereafter is well documented. It's only a matter of time till another Club with the gambling business model of such as Derby or a Wednesday will go the same way and it will be just rewards for their financial recklessness. You can play roulette and pile the money on zero on the basis (and blind hope) it will come in after so many spins. Unfortunately, when it doesn't, the fall-out is always disastrous. You sure about Reading, Morley? They spent barrow-loads in the last two or three seasons and are close now to being bankrupt because of over-spending. They even took last year's parachute payment early the previous season - at a cost - simply to cover their debts last season. They are kacking themselves over the proposed Chinese take-over possibly falling through. They're in a right mess - and I bloody love it!! They've just spent 3 million on a centre half from Liverpool so I don't think they are in as much of a mess as you think Forest on the other hand... |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Jan 14, 2017 12:57:28 GMT 1
You sure about Reading, Morley? They spent barrow-loads in the last two or three seasons and are close now to being bankrupt because of over-spending. They even took last year's parachute payment early the previous season - at a cost - simply to cover their debts last season. They are kacking themselves over the proposed Chinese take-over possibly falling through. They're in a right mess - and I bloody love it!! They've just spent 3 million on a centre half from Liverpool so I don't think they are in as much of a mess as you think Forest on the other hand... Be that as it may, but I can guarantee you that Reading are up to their necks in it. The Tilehurst End link |
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Post by pharmer on Jan 14, 2017 13:12:01 GMT 1
The thing I noticed was that derby tried playing it out from the back to midfield and then had to hoof it as Leeds were all over em like a rash. I think we will need to adapt our game slightly when we play Leeds and certainly get it forward quicker but I agree, Derby were shite.
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ilsonterrier
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Post by ilsonterrier on Jan 14, 2017 13:15:40 GMT 1
If ever a team epitomises how spending shitloads of money every season can still land you up with a shit Team (relative to what it should be), it's Derby County. Watched that game vs Leeds last night and boy they were shite, shocking. I couldn't believe what I was seeing they were so bad. £6m was it for a Bradley Johnson?, there is not one Midfielder in our first Team squad he would get in ahead of. He looked League 1 at best. Wednesday, another Team with a bottomless pit money wise. They just buy everybody and anybody that becomes available (you seen their Striking options?). There is no way Clubs such as these are working within the constraints of financial fair play. I cannot imagine what their wage bill is. How long can these Clubs sustain throwing money at it in huge wages they are tied to and big transfer fees paid year after year in pursuit of the greedy league?. It's reckless what Clubs such as these are doing and I think it will catch up with them if (when) they don't get promoted (again). By contrast I have no issue with Brighton getting promoted this season whatsoever, who of course spend a bit of money, but they are more shrewd, have a lot more class as a Club and are not solely relying on money to win matches such as Wednesday and Derby are. To be fair Leeds, Huddersfield and although I am not keen, Reading all fall in to the same category as Brighton of not simply relying (blindly) on money in their pursuit of promotion. Have these Clubs relying on money ever heard of Team spirit?,hard work?, excellent coaching and tactics?. Based on Derby last night, the answer is no, they looked like a league 1 Club. I think such as Norwich, Villa and Newcastle are a different dynamic as they have Premiership parachute money. Leeds United gambled big time on a top 4 finish and finished 5th. Their downfall thereafter is well documented. It's only a matter of time till another Club with the gambling business model of such as Derby or a Wednesday will go the same way and it will be just rewards for their financial recklessness. You can play roulette and pile the money on zero on the basis (and blind hope) it will come in after so many spins. Unfortunately, when it doesn't, the fall-out is always disastrous. You're absolutely right about Derby morley. They went out and spent £2.5m on David Nugent because they can't recall Chris Martin from his loan spell at Fulham. They spent ONLY £2.5m and not £12m to £15m because they believe they will get Martin back in the summer (although that is by no means guaranteed). Just to put things into perspective, that £2.5m is 40% higher than our record transfer fee. They are one of a number of clubs gambling on the fact that Financial Fair Play can now be done over 3 years and hoping (praying?) that they make the Premier League in those 3 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 13:17:50 GMT 1
They've just spent 3 million on a centre half from Liverpool so I don't think they are in as much of a mess as you think Forest on the other hand... Be that as it may, but I can guarantee you that Reading are up to their necks in it. The Tilehurst End linkDoesn't make for good reading (jokes) but it's probably still healthier than most accounts in this division. All depends on whether this Chinese take over goes through. |
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Post by artysid on Jan 14, 2017 13:18:06 GMT 1
.... and knowing that very little happens to the Clubs that breach the rules
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Post by dugnet on Jan 14, 2017 13:21:10 GMT 1
The development of the game in China will be very interesting. How that impacts Premier wages and how much can be afforded. Getting into a bidding war may see the landscape change dramatically and players moving over to the far east.
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ilsonterrier
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Post by ilsonterrier on Jan 14, 2017 13:21:47 GMT 1
.... and knowing that very little happens to the Clubs that breach the rules Correct |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 13:24:17 GMT 1
Playing devils advocate a bit...
Would you be willing to spend massively, risks involved, to win something? Portsmouth are obviously suffering now, but I remember us and them being pretty similar in the late 1990s. Our journeys went a total different way.
Whilst I wouldn't swap Deano for the world, if you could give me an FA Cup win and a few years in the EPL before a drop to League Two then I'd take it.
I understand it doesn't work that way. I understand it's pie in the sky but I also understand we can all whinge about clubs spending too much but how many actually go bust from it? Any in England at all? How many of them actually succeed?
Obviously I wouldn't do it to risk the club's existence but realistically it seems English league football clubs cannot die anymore anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 13:25:39 GMT 1
Excellent post Morley and in total agreement that just throwing money at it is simply not the answer. You need to build from within and develop a team spirit where you can see players giving 100% for the shirt and looking like they care as much as their loyal supporters paying hard earned money do.We don't ask much but at least that as a minimum. I know we have that now and judging by reports you have it too at Town. Isn't it great to feel proud of your team and manager for the effort they are putting in rather than the wages they are taking or stealing in some cases like Derby[/quot You make a very good point and spending lots of money doesn't always pay of but there is more pressure on some clubs to succeed than others and I was impressed with leeds last night but there is a long way to go yet in this competitive division. |
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Post by AndySk on Jan 14, 2017 13:26:30 GMT 1
I hope everyone goes bust
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 13:31:05 GMT 1
Brighton shrewd? What a £26M loss kind of shrewd? They are gambling big time this season. Their losses more than doubled last year from the year before.
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Post by garyroberts'leftfoot on Jan 14, 2017 13:46:46 GMT 1
As long as the owners can afford it there is no gamble.
The problems only arise when the owners get bored of ploughing money in (forest, Blackburn and Cardiff).
QPR have shown that there are no consequences if you breach financial fair play so clubs can have a good go for 3-5 years and then reduce wages / transfers if they don't go up.
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Post by swfchamish on Jan 14, 2017 14:17:56 GMT 1
I can understand how our spending looks from the outside. We have spent a lot, close to £25M over 2 seasons on players and wages however we haven't broken any FFP rules and are cautious about not doing.
However, Chansiri is a very shrewd businessman and wouldn't have this sort of wealth without having the business acumen. Our chairman is very invested in the emotional needs of the club and fans. He's spent on infrastructure (which doesn't count in FFP) for the long term and is planning further developments in the area away from football. Don't think it's fair to put us in the bracket of being 'greedy'. If the owner has the money to spend and has the FFP room to do so then it makes sense. We're beyond fortunate to have him.
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Post by In sooth- - on Jan 14, 2017 14:21:32 GMT 1
And players are laughing all the way to their banks
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 14:44:43 GMT 1
Excellent post Morley and in total agreement that just throwing money at it is simply not the answer. You need to build from within and develop a team spirit where you can see players giving 100% for the shirt and looking like they care as much as their loyal supporters paying hard earned money do.We don't ask much but at least that as a minimum. I know we have that now and judging by reports you have it too at Town. Isn't it great to feel proud of your team and manager for the effort they are putting in rather than the wages they are taking or stealing in some cases like Derby Wood £2m+ Roofe £3.5m Jansson £3.5m Dallas £1m+ Cooper £1m Antonsson £1.2m There's more than those. I know Cellino has sold your assets but that's £12.2m just there on 6 players. Add in the average wage too. Town have spent £5.5m on a squad. So it isn't all just team spirit is it? |
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on Jan 14, 2017 14:54:18 GMT 1
If ever a team epitomises how spending shitloads of money every season can still land you up with a shit Team (relative to what it should be), it's Derby County. Watched that game vs Leeds last night and boy they were shite, shocking. I couldn't believe what I was seeing they were so bad. £6m was it for a Bradley Johnson?, there is not one Midfielder in our first Team squad he would get in ahead of. He looked League 1 at best. Wednesday, another Team with a bottomless pit money wise. They just buy everybody and anybody that becomes available (you seen their Striking options?). There is no way Clubs such as these are working within the constraints of financial fair play. I cannot imagine what their wage bill is. How long can these Clubs sustain throwing money at it in huge wages they are tied to and big transfer fees paid year after year in pursuit of the greedy league?. It's reckless what Clubs such as these are doing and I think it will catch up with them if (when) they don't get promoted (again). By contrast I have no issue with Brighton getting promoted this season whatsoever, who of course spend a bit of money, but they are more shrewd, have a lot more class as a Club and are not solely relying on money to win matches such as Wednesday and Derby are. To be fair Leeds, Huddersfield and although I am not keen, Reading all fall in to the same category as Brighton of not simply relying (blindly) on money in their pursuit of promotion. Have these Clubs relying on money ever heard of Team spirit?,hard work?, excellent coaching and tactics?. Based on Derby last night, the answer is no, they looked like a league 1 Club. I think such as Norwich, Villa and Newcastle are a different dynamic as they have Premiership parachute money. Leeds United gambled big time on a top 4 finish and finished 5th. Their downfall thereafter is well documented. It's only a matter of time till another Club with the gambling business model of such as Derby or a Wednesday will go the same way and it will be just rewards for their financial recklessness. You can play roulette and pile the money on zero on the basis (and blind hope) it will come in after so many spins. Unfortunately, when it doesn't, the fall-out is always disastrous. I'm just happy you didn't end with the word: Discuss! |
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htfc63
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Post by htfc63 on Jan 14, 2017 15:32:28 GMT 1
Just to correct you Garyroberts, the football league will decide finally in February what should happen regarding QPR not paying the FFP fine. There are financial consequences which have seen two championship clubs paying £7 million fines this season. In saying that if your owners can afford that then clubs may well continue to push the boat out in order to try gain promotion.
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Post by buzz on Jan 14, 2017 19:40:38 GMT 1
Can't get my breath wi this thread! Town probably heading towards 40 million in debt and you're slagging Other clubs off for chancing their arm pretending you have the perfect model club!!!ha ha ha!
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 14, 2017 19:50:46 GMT 1
I was having this conversation with a Leeds fan last week about Derby. Their scouting policy seems to be 'sign big names who were good 2 years ago'. There is little thought about the future with the business they do. They seem attracted to players who are always going to be expensive regardless of age or form. Bent, Nugent, Johnson, Carson, Vydra and at the time they signed him Ince are all examples of players who have had brilliant seasons previously and then dropped off the radar. All expensive, all with high wages but arguably (with the exception of Ince) players with their best form behind them. I look at Town (and Leeds to be fair) and we have a plan, a way of playing and an ethos for the future. Leeds have a brilliant academy who produce quality first teamers and with the exception of Hudson I think all of our first team are under 30. That performance against Port Vale shouldn't be dismissed last week as an easy game. What it demonstrates is that the squad has a DNA and even with 10 squad players in the first XI we play exactly the same way with the same results. I wouldn't swap want we have for Derbys 'chuck money at it policy' ever. Everyone thinks we will be the ones to fall away because we have the smallest budget and least glamorous squad but what they don't realise is we have a style and a way of playing that remains, regardless of score, position or pressure and it's why we are where we are. UTT Agree with a lot of what's in your post but Butterfield, Ince and Vydra were all playing fantastic when Derby signed them it's not recruitment that's their problem, it's management IMO. I think any of us on this forum could get that team into 7th in the championship. McLaren is clearly an absolutely terrible manager. |
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Post by buzz on Jan 14, 2017 20:43:24 GMT 1
Thanks for the six points!
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Post by wtd on Jan 14, 2017 20:49:46 GMT 1
Thanks for the six points! And STILL we sit above you!!!!  Come back soon, now. |
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Post by araucaria on Jan 14, 2017 20:58:56 GMT 1
Thanks for the six points! As far as I know, Graham Scott doesn't post on here. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 0:16:32 GMT 1
Listening to 5live 606 while in the car earlier.
They were saying that Villa forked out £52m on players in the summer.
Given they paid a few bob for McCormack it might well be true, but it did seem a little high overall.
If it is true, it proves that you can easily throw cash at the wrong signings. Many on here will recall a few high cost failures here, but even accounting for inflation and how football has changed I wouldn't say it's as spectacular as Villa...
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