Wagners Fault...

[Deleted]

www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/news/julian-winter-lifts-lid-huddersfield-16238499

Winter seems to totally point the finger at Wagner here...we bought some players to fit a system and David changed the system, it’s his fault, not ours.

All seems a tad strange...Wagner and others always said that Wagner had the final say on signings.

Why did he approve those signings...why didn’t they TALK about what was required to strengthen the squad to fit Wagners ideas?


I always did wonder, was David a “coach” who would happily take any squad of players and work with what he had, rather than a football manager who would go out and demand we sign players to improve specific slots. Was the real mistake that Winter doesn’t want to mention the lack of a working DoF who should provide that interface with the coach/manager?

I really really hope that we’ve learned a lesson here, and we’re not just relying on Dean and the new fella (sorry, forgot his name!) to go out and sign players they think might fit into what they think is a Siewert system.

[royrace]

It's good to see Winter talking about what went wrong, still leaves many questions unanswered obviously but really interesting to see him talking about the change in system for 'whatever reason'. For me personally reading between the lines I think he has changed it because he wasn't happy with the quality/attributes of the additions but we'll never know and it would be totally inappropriate for Winter to effectively criticise current players. The alternative is that Wagner let the club spend £25M on wingers he had little intention of playing which I find hard to believe. Nice to see some comms coming out of the club, hopefully it will continue. I guess we'll be hearing from Phil before too long.

[The Sheriff Strikes Back]

The guy has got some fucking nerve, I'll give him that.

[k1man999]

I think wagner first window was him identifying most players along with webber having his input.
Do they not talk if wagner was thinking 5 at the back at end of previous season I'm sure this would have been talked about plus mbenza came in last day. I think winter is trying to cover his own incompetency up.
Even if we did play the way we played non of the players signed seemed to fit with wagners profile ie winger who can get up and down doing the ugly side.
Something somewhere went terribly wrong.
As usual it's probably somewhere in the middle of both sets of stories.

[space hardware]

I don't buy it for one second.

[drumriggend]

May 8, 2019 10:46:54 GMT 1 space hardware said:

I don't buy it for one second.

Me neither..
I think wagner went 5 at the back because he thought diakaby and mbenza wernt good enough

[townrwe]

He is only saying what everyone else was thinking.... The club tried to address the issues of last season, we all knew we needed wingers capable of supplying the ammunition for mounie and depoitre, but then we absolutely threw them out of our system....

Was the recruitment not good enough? Ive seen enough in Mbenza, Diakhaby, Sobhi (maybe not) and RVLP to suggest it could have worked with some bedding in, certainly better than the previous incumbants of Ince, Kachunga, Quanner and RVLP. so it really does come down to Wagner. I still find the sale of Ince a strange decision, especially to then replace him with Sobhi as he was the working winger we needed vs better teams. Bacuna and Kongolo have also turned out excellent signings.

Wagner lost his bottle, and the direction the club went in, was a complete juxtaposition to that the coaching team decided. Was it Wagner not trusting the signings? was it the signings weren't good enough, or did Wagner decide on a new formation too late to bring in the signings we needed leaving a team of wingers with non playing.

We will probably never find out the truth, but the fact wagner never tried Diakhaby and Mbenza in the same game suggests he didnt trust them or think they were good enough, so who recruited them? and for what system? and why did David sign off on them?

[brickthespecial]

But neither Mbenza or Diakhaby arrived hitting the ground running, they were woeful on their early perfomances, just too raw.
Sobhi having played at Stoke in the Prem should have been an immediate impact player but something went very wrong their too and injury prone.


Perhaps when Waggers realised neither of his 3 wide men were up to the task he had no option but to revert to wing backs and neither Lowe ( despite a solid season), Durm (really disappointing) , Hadj (versatile bench warmer at best) are good enough, at Prem level offensively or defensively to carry off that role.

Waggers is a loyal chap I dont expect to hear him trying to slaughter someone ( or even respond to Winter) in the press in the coming years and pointing fingers.

[crux]

As usual on DATM - Town slagged off for not communicating with the fans and talking about what went wrong, then an interview with the CEO explaining the recruitment was for one system and the Head Coach then changed the system and guess what he gets slagged off by posters on DATM. I'm not sure he said anything we hadn't already realised, the system was changed radically and the players recruited didn't fit the new system. The only person who can explain why the system was changed is David Wagner and I'm not sure he will go public with his thoughts as it will probably be a mixture of reasons.

[drewden]

I personally do not blame anyone, the problem lies in the massive gulf between the prem and championship, shed loads of money has to be spent to compete in the prem.

We just dipped our toes in the water to try and compete, then crawled back to safety to the championship.

No ones to blame it’s just reality.

[htafc]

i blame poor signings

[crux]

May 8, 2019 11:10:38 GMT 1 drewden said:

I personally do not blame anyone, the problem lies in the massive gulf between the prem and championship, shed loads of money has to be spent to compete in the prem.

We just dipped our toes in the water to try and compete, then crawled back to safety to the championship.

No ones to blame it’s just reality.

There was a decent article written by Martin Samuel when Brighton were in free-fall and everybody was asking 'what went wrong?'. The 'simple' answer is there are a number of clubs in the Premier League for whom everything has to be right, otherwise they will struggle. He listed Town, Cardiff and Burnley as well as Brighton as the clubs that are/were in that category. He may well have included Fulham, but in my mind any club that spends £100M to add/replace players who were successfully promoted the season before deserves everything that comes at them.

It could be a run of bad luck, injuries to key players, lack of confidence or indecision by players, coaches or management that starts the downward spiral, but once started it's very difficult to stop. I suspect we suffered with all of the above and more this season, hopefully next season will be better

[Torquayterrier]

In the longer term neither Mounie nor Depoitre were good enough often enough against most prem defences irrespective of the quality of crosses. The subsequent performances just showed what a relatively freak performance it was v Palace to set us going, they were a shocking defensive unit under De Boer. There would have to have been midfield contributions (in scoring goals) of world class quality over the second half of season one and all of this seasonto make up the difference. It was only a matter of time.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

May 8, 2019 10:56:59 GMT 1 townrwe said:

He is only saying what everyone else was thinking.... The club tried to address the issues of last season, we all knew we needed wingers capable of supplying the ammunition for mounie and depoitre, but then we absolutely threw them out of our system....

Was the recruitment not good enough? Ive seen enough in Mbenza, Diakhaby, Sobhi (maybe not) and RVLP to suggest it could have worked with some bedding in, certainly better than the previous incumbants of Ince, Kachunga, Quanner and RVLP. so it really does come down to Wagner. I still find the sale of Ince a strange decision, especially to then replace him with Sobhi as he was the working winger we needed vs better teams. Bacuna and Kongolo have also turned out excellent signings.

Wagner lost his bottle, and the direction the club went in, was a complete juxtaposition to that the coaching team decided. Was it Wagner not trusting the signings? was it the signings weren't good enough, or did Wagner decide on a new formation too late to bring in the signings we needed leaving a team of wingers with non playing.

We will probably never find out the truth, but the fact wagner never tried Diakhaby and Mbenza in the same game suggests he didnt trust them or think they were good enough, so who recruited them? and for what system? and why did David sign off on them?

I agree with some of what you say but then you blow your own argument out of the water by saying RVLP is better than..... RVLP.

[drewden]

May 8, 2019 11:39:45 GMT 1 Torquayterrier said:

In the longer term neither Mounie nor Depoitre were good enough often enough against most prem defences irrespective of the quality of crosses. The subsequent performances just showed what a relatively freak performance it was v Palace to set us going, they were a shocking defensive unit under De Boer. There would have to have been midfield contributions (in scoring goals) of world class quality over the second half of season one and all of this seasonto make up the difference. It was only a matter of time.

Spot on mate.

[Gag_N_Bone_Man]

May 8, 2019 11:39:45 GMT 1 Torquayterrier said:

In the longer term neither Mounie nor Depoitre were good enough often enough against most prem defences irrespective of the quality of crosses. The subsequent performances just showed what a relatively freak performance it was v Palace to set us going, they were a shocking defensive unit under De Boer. There would have to have been midfield contributions (in scoring goals) of world class quality over the second half of season one and all of this seasonto make up the difference. It was only a matter of time.

to be fair to all concerned in buying players, has anyone ever known a pair of strikers perform so much worse one season to the next? for one to drop form, maybe, but for both to have such a decline is almost unheard of.

LDP is a (larger) shadow of the man who struck fear into the defences of the top 6 last year. I admit that at the end of last season I thought he had an outside chance of going to the world cup, and was scared we'd lose him.

[Torquayterrier]

I'm maybe being harsh and I take your point but they were hardly prolific first season either, on that kind of performance it probably means that against decent defences you don't have to go off form that much to go from chipping in a few goals here and there to not scoring at all.

[muffinman]

The problems were more than apparent before the summer, Bournmouth at home and West Brom away masked a really poor run of form. At the time I thought Mounie with decent service would've done well but I doubt that now.

Was our form at the start of the first season purely down to riding the of promotion?

[Porrohman]

May 8, 2019 11:45:12 GMT 1 Gag_N_Bone_Man said:

May 8, 2019 10:56:59 GMT 1 townrwe said:

He is only saying what everyone else was thinking.... The club tried to address the issues of last season, we all knew we needed wingers capable of supplying the ammunition for mounie and depoitre, but then we absolutely threw them out of our system....

Was the recruitment not good enough? Ive seen enough in Mbenza, Diakhaby, Sobhi (maybe not) and RVLP to suggest it could have worked with some bedding in, certainly better than the previous incumbants of Ince, Kachunga, Quanner and RVLP. so it really does come down to Wagner. I still find the sale of Ince a strange decision, especially to then replace him with Sobhi as he was the working winger we needed vs better teams. Bacuna and Kongolo have also turned out excellent signings.

Wagner lost his bottle, and the direction the club went in, was a complete juxtaposition to that the coaching team decided. Was it Wagner not trusting the signings? was it the signings weren't good enough, or did Wagner decide on a new formation too late to bring in the signings we needed leaving a team of wingers with non playing.

We will probably never find out the truth, but the fact wagner never tried Diakhaby and Mbenza in the same game suggests he didnt trust them or think they were good enough, so who recruited them? and for what system? and why did David sign off on them?

I agree with some of what you say but then you blow your own argument out of the water by saying RVLP is better than..... RVLP.

I read it that the first 4 as a set of wingers were better than the latter 4. If Jan wants to go with pace out wide then AD, IM, RVLP and Rowe, possibly with Collin as 5th, would do.

[Deleted]

Blame on all sides in my eyes. Wagner may have been let down in recruitment but, having been at Fulham, his lineups and tactics became increasingly indefensible.

[Christ in Shades (art)]

May 8, 2019 10:49:53 GMT 1 drumriggend said:

May 8, 2019 10:46:54 GMT 1 space hardware said:

I don't buy it for one second.

Me neither..
I think wagner went 5 at the back because he thought diakaby and mbenza wernt good enough

Everyone knows they aren't good enough.

[arry11]

Both Wagner and Dean have publicly said they made mistakes on our summer recruitment Wagner did have the good intentions with the wingers brought in but after the first few games he found out it was not working and was forced to find the alternative and it was the best he could achieve with this bunch of players.

[galpharm2400]

breakdown in communication and then cooperation..not right from the start of the season and went downhill fast..bar a few abberations which brought 15 points so far and some really awful decisions going against us its been a badly run and a badly played season all round..

live and learn being the best way out of it now..

technically we were always going to be on the back foot, depth of squad also was always going to be a concern so tactically and work rate wise it had to be spot on, it wasnt..

The 'highs' were as big as the 'lows' and that in itself is a bloody big bonus for Town fans.. 2 big seasons followed by a shocker to me is still 'one season up'..

[teddytheterrier]

Keep digging Julian we can still see ya.

[Million Dollar Babies]

Did Wagner improve an attacking player while he was here? He certainly made them more rounded players by upping their work rate and defensive contribution but I'm struggling to think of a player whose attacking attributes improved under him

[Nickhudds.UTT]

he got rid of Vlp which was very odd decisions ??

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Why is everyone having a pop at Winter and St David gets off Scott free?

I want to know why the club bought players to cater for one style of play, it makes you so one dimensional. You always need a plan B,clearly catering for one style of play is not a good idea.

And what's this 'system' that brought so much success? We were nearly relegated last year, we have had a problem scoring goals throughout Wagner's reign, it was always borderline and always likely to tip against us.

[Uddersfield]

May 8, 2019 12:10:07 GMT 1 @mrx said:

Blame on all sides in my eyes. Wagner may have been let down in recruitment but, having been at Fulham, his lineups and tactics became increasingly indefensible.

Agreed. Playing Flo in that CM role was awful 

[Melc]

So we get a new owner and Winter decides to come out of the closet, all a bit late if you ask me.

[shawsie]

Sadly I think it does point to DW making mistakes.
I am told he signed all the players except bacuna and as such the buck stops with him.
We have to move on though now - new owner, new coach new opportunities.