Sparrow
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Post by Sparrow on May 6, 2021 16:52:50 GMT 1
I agree it will have been heart over head to start with but it must have been at least a nice bonus to be worshipped by the fans, once that started wearing off whilst struggling in the championship he didn’t fancy it anymore. The head won in the end though with a cracking bit of business selling the club. A bit like ploughing a load of spare cash into a classic motor over the years then selling it on finance to a mate, sticking all the money you’ve spent from tyres to fuel over the years on the price. No, even the sale was heart over head. The head would have said the best thing in business terms would have been to sell it to the other interested party.. recoup all your money in one go and sod the implications for the club. He went with the heart even then.. the better option for the club, the worse option for him. Im really struggling to see how him selling the club was in any way a 'cracking bit of business' for him. Like selling your classic car on finance to a mate for 75% of the money you've put into it , when a bloke down the pub who you don't like wanted to give you all your money back in one go for it. I think he first saw the fickle nature of 'hero worshipping' amongst football fans at Old Trafford when we played Peterborough myself. In terms of buying, owning and then selling a football club it was a 'cracking bit of business' in the context of football club ownership. He'll have got more from PH for the 75% share in the club than he paid KD for 100% of the shares in the club. For every penny he's ever loaned the club he's getting the vast majority of those loans back. Over 75p for every £1 is a good deal in terms of football club ownership. And he could yet get it all back. He still owns 25% of the club and collects and annual rent for Canalside. It won't be much, but he'll have pocketed some decent speaking fees for events he'll have spoken at that he wouldn't have spoken at had he not owned Town. And there'll have been other opportunities and doors that opened to him as the owner of a Championship and then PL football club that otherwise wouldn't have. Yes he'll have missed out on investment opportunities over the decade, but he'll have had some amazing 'football' experiences as a club owber that the average fan could only wish for
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Post by mids on May 6, 2021 16:59:53 GMT 1
Villain. I actually enjoyed the Rubery years to a greater extent. I don't believe you, but if you generally feel that way then fair play...it takes all sorts
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 17:06:32 GMT 1
Villain. I actually enjoyed the Rubery years to a greater extent. I don't believe you, but if you generally feel that way then fair play...it takes all sorts The fireworks were great though...
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Post by Mecha Corte on May 6, 2021 17:16:42 GMT 1
I don't believe you, but if you generally feel that way then fair play...it takes all sorts The fireworks were great though... FA Cup replay at home vs Wrexham, I still have a framed photo signed by Stewie and Ben Thornley the two goal scores that night, the club must have paid or been sponsored by Standard for thousands of pounds worth that night. Didn’t we then have a short lived spell of letting off a few rockets at full time if Town had won so people in the town centre knew ?
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Post by turbo2 on May 6, 2021 17:24:16 GMT 1
But it’s worth nothing. We own a share in the ground and at the time had a squad with billing and grant as the only assets and a huge contracted wage bill. It wasn’t worth 10m. Never mind 60m The business isn't just those things. Its the brand,, the position in the pyramid,,, the fanbase,, the infrastructure... When you buy a business you take on its debts. Big businesses have been sold for £1 for that reason. The money DH is taking was such a debt. Where is this £60m figure from ? Think it was 64m as quoted by the chairman when I fixed his interview earlier in this thread As for our fans base. Great while dean was subsidising them ( before taking it back) but were 10-12k club in reality if the prices point was correct
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 17:27:41 GMT 1
The fireworks were great though... FA Cup replay at home vs Wrexham, I still have a framed photo signed by Stewie and Ben Thornley the two goal scores that night, the club must have paid or been sponsored by Standard for thousands of pounds worth that night. Didn’t we then have a short lived spell of letting off a few rockets at full time if Town had won so people in the town centre knew ? Yes, that rings a bell. Or light my fuse. It was to stop all those wankers in town always asking: did bloody Town lose again?
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Post by H6dds on May 6, 2021 17:33:35 GMT 1
What is making me the most frustrated of all this is that before we got promoted to the PL I always saw us as a smart club, that we made progress year on year not by outspending but by outsmarting the opponents. We signed young players that we improved and sold on, getting a little bit higher in the table for every season and operating with a low budget trying to get the most out of every penny instead of blowing our brains out.
I saw it like we had a long term plan, Hoyle seemed like a smart and passionate owner who made good decisions most of the time, the club were in safe hands. Maybe it would take 20 years to get to the promised land but we would get there eventually if we continued in the direction we were going.
My feeling was that when it was our time to get to the PL we would make the most out of it. We wouldn’t do like all “the other clubs”. We wouldn’t waste millions on lazy egoistical players from all over the world who wouldn’t give a toss as soon as the going got tough. We would do like Burnley, or hopefully even better:
- Use the cash to buy good top championship players and maybe a few with a bit of premiership experience, players with good attitudes. - Build the squad so that if we went down we could compete at the top again and be in the race for promotion. - Use the cash to upgrade the clubs infrastructure, get the best young talent for our academy, buy the stadium shares, etc.
Then we all know what happened, the exact opposite. And now we have absolutely nothing to show for this fantastic achievement except memories like someone said, and many of the players we had have become villains along with the owner and manager depending on which fans you ask. This is what’s hurting me the most, and what’s making it hard to move on...
Hoyle can take his cash if he wants but in which way he has done it along with his decisions as a chairman between Schindler’s penalty up until now is what makes him more of a villain than a hero IMO.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on May 6, 2021 17:37:50 GMT 1
Villain. I actually enjoyed the Rubery years to a greater extent. *rubbery. I know your game....
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on May 6, 2021 18:03:38 GMT 1
Villain. I actually enjoyed the Rubery years to a greater extent. *rubbery. I know your game.... It's not football 😚
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Post by SW6 on May 6, 2021 21:19:39 GMT 1
Villain. I actually enjoyed the Rubery years to a greater extent. season 97-98 The great escape. season 98-99 Rubery's first season, the beginnings of a decent squad season 99-00 Steve Bruce' first season, top of the table on merit at Christmas. or bluffing our way to the premier league, with a negative goal difference, then glad to be there with a collection of players who were both expensive and very average, coupled with incompetence behind the scenes in most all departments. A tough choice.
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Post by ShortbreadPete on May 6, 2021 22:09:32 GMT 1
Given that some folk think this thread (https://downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/115754/david-wagner-hero-villain) was written to shift the focus from Dean Hoyle to David Wagner, have at it. What's your verdict? I'd say hero turned villain, if rumours of his conduct since deciding to sell the club are to be believed, and I'd wager some of them must have a degree of truth. Colours to the mast - I have no time for Phil. I think he's a charlatan and is damaging the club. He should never have agreed to the deal if he felt he couldn't cope with the terms of it (even pre-covid). I've also met Dean, Janet and their lads on several occasions, and on a personal level like all of them a hell of a lot. I have a great deal of respect for them all, and gratitude for the positive impact they had on the club and the community. But, I'm a firm believer that if you take praise for your good deeds and successes, you have to take criticism for your bad deeds and failings. I have no issue with Dean being repaid the money he lent the club, but if the speed/rate or repayment leaves the club hamstrung and inept, on the verge of relegation or worse, then I have to condemn that. Additionally, I think the decisions made upon promotion and since showed real naivety and believe this is the crux of the matter - when Webber left, we made a series of flawed, poor decisions. Anyway, your views? Remember, let's not be abusive, but otherwise speak freely. Wow! How many members of DATM have started a thread to then discover that a moderator has started a new thread in an attempt to undermine the presumed intention of the member's thread? 'Given that some folk' appears cowardly and suggests that you needed to hide your motives for your thread behind 'some folk'. Those 'some folk' and yourself are incorrect in their presumption of my intentions. The majority of the recent focus has actually been on PH, CC and various people who have held the role of DOF. My intentions were as stated in my recent response on the thread in question.
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Post by sabailand on May 7, 2021 0:06:09 GMT 1
Villain. I actually enjoyed the Rubery years to a greater extent. season 97-98 The great escape. season 98-99 Rubery's first season, the beginnings of a decent squad season 99-00 Steve Bruce' first season, top of the table on merit at Christmas. or bluffing our way to the premier league, with a negative goal difference, then glad to be there with a collection of players who were both expensive and very average, coupled with incompetence behind the scenes in most all departments. A tough choice. Great escape wasnt under Rubery's time in charge he didnt take over until 99, had a decent squad under Bruce but still failed to make the playoffs, season after went down and spent eleven seasons in the bottom two divisions. Come 2016 and in the championship again after promotion in 2012 (under Hoyle) and a 19th place finish, 2016-17 promotion vis the playoffs to the premier league, 2017-18 stayed in the premier league, 2018-19 got relegated and still currently a championship club. Easy choice.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 7, 2021 0:44:22 GMT 1
No, even the sale was heart over head. The head would have said the best thing in business terms would have been to sell it to the other interested party.. recoup all your money in one go and sod the implications for the club. He went with the heart even then.. the better option for the club, the worse option for him. Im really struggling to see how him selling the club was in any way a 'cracking bit of business' for him. Like selling your classic car on finance to a mate for 75% of the money you've put into it , when a bloke down the pub who you don't like wanted to give you all your money back in one go for it. I think he first saw the fickle nature of 'hero worshipping' amongst football fans at Old Trafford when we played Peterborough myself. In terms of buying, owning and then selling a football club it was a 'cracking bit of business' in the context of football club ownership. He'll have got more from PH for the 75% share in the club than he paid KD for 100% of the shares in the club. For every penny he's ever loaned the club he's getting the vast majority of those loans back. Over 75p for every £1 is a good deal in terms of football club ownership. And he could yet get it all back. He still owns 25% of the club and collects and annual rent for Canalside. It won't be much, but he'll have pocketed some decent speaking fees for events he'll have spoken at that he wouldn't have spoken at had he not owned Town. And there'll have been other opportunities and doors that opened to him as the owner of a Championship and then PL football club that otherwise wouldn't have. Yes he'll have missed out on investment opportunities over the decade, but he'll have had some amazing 'football' experiences as a club owber that the average fan could only wish for He bought a middling League 1 club with no assets whatsoever and a squad which would go on to be sold for a combined fee of £45k. You try selling one of those to prospective buyers with the promise it will be a 'cracking bit of business in football terms' because when you sell it, it will have only cost you £30,000 a week for 10 years. Think it would be a tough sell, even if you do get to hob nob it with some famous types along the way.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 7, 2021 0:49:22 GMT 1
The business isn't just those things. Its the brand,, the position in the pyramid,,, the fanbase,, the infrastructure... When you buy a business you take on its debts. Big businesses have been sold for £1 for that reason. The money DH is taking was such a debt. Where is this £60m figure from ? Think it was 64m as quoted by the chairman when I fixed his interview earlier in this thread As for our fans base. Great while dean was subsidising them ( before taking it back) but were 10-12k club in reality if the prices point was correct That figure must include the short term loan to cope with a gap in PL payments between the two PL seasons. Thats a separate thing really. Paid and repaid very quickly. Shouldn't be included in the ongoing money he put into the club that he's getting most of back.
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Sparrow
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Post by Sparrow on May 7, 2021 9:50:23 GMT 1
In terms of buying, owning and then selling a football club it was a 'cracking bit of business' in the context of football club ownership. He'll have got more from PH for the 75% share in the club than he paid KD for 100% of the shares in the club. For every penny he's ever loaned the club he's getting the vast majority of those loans back. Over 75p for every £1 is a good deal in terms of football club ownership. And he could yet get it all back. He still owns 25% of the club and collects and annual rent for Canalside. It won't be much, but he'll have pocketed some decent speaking fees for events he'll have spoken at that he wouldn't have spoken at had he not owned Town. And there'll have been other opportunities and doors that opened to him as the owner of a Championship and then PL football club that otherwise wouldn't have. Yes he'll have missed out on investment opportunities over the decade, but he'll have had some amazing 'football' experiences as a club owber that the average fan could only wish for He bought a middling League 1 club with no assets whatsoever and a squad which would go on to be sold for a combined fee of £45k. You try selling one of those to prospective buyers with the promise it will be a 'cracking bit of business in football terms' because when you sell it, it will have only cost you £30,000 a week for 10 years. Think it would be a tough sell, even if you do get to hob nob it with some famous types along the way. He bought, owned and ran his boyhood club, a club he's supported all his life, for 10 years. That's an opportunity I would imagine the majority of football fans would love to have. Regardless of what division, assets and squad that team was in or had It's then cost him about £15.6m over 10 years. Approximately 5% of his net worth according to last year's Sunday Times Rich list. Over the last 10 years he's invested 5% of his estimated net worth into Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to own the club. Something I'm sure a lot of us would love to do. Now, just think about what your own personal wealth is. Then figure out what 5% of that is.Then divide that by 10. Then divide it by 52. Now ask yourself if you would be comfortable to invest that in Huddersfield Town ever week for the next 10 years and get the opportunity to be owner of the club. I bet you say yes. Even if you're gonna tell me he's leaving £10m of his loans in, that still only takes it to 9% of his net worth invested to get the opportunity to own and run the football club he has supported all his life. Again, do the maths on your own net worth, work out the total weekly amount and then tell me you wouldn't invest that each week to have the opportunity to own and run Huddersfield Town for 10 years. Yes he has lost money. Yes his financial advisers probably told him not to do it. Yes he could have made a ton of money investing elsewhere. But come on, by the time the final loan repayment has been made, he'll have invested less than 10% of his near £300m fortune in Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to be owner and chairman of the club......for me, that's a cracking bit of business
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Post by Mastercracker on May 7, 2021 9:56:27 GMT 1
He bought a middling League 1 club with no assets whatsoever and a squad which would go on to be sold for a combined fee of £45k. You try selling one of those to prospective buyers with the promise it will be a 'cracking bit of business in football terms' because when you sell it, it will have only cost you £30,000 a week for 10 years. Think it would be a tough sell, even if you do get to hob nob it with some famous types along the way. He bought, owned and ran his boyhood club, a club he's supported all his life, for 10 years. That's an opportunity I would imagine the majority of football fans would love to have. Regardless of what division, assets and squad that team was in or had It's then cost him about £15.6m over 10 years. Approximately 5% of his net worth according to last year's Sunday Times Rich list. Over the last 10 years he's invested 5% of his estimated net worth into Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to own the club. Something I'm sure a lot of us would love to do. Now, just think about what your own personal wealth is. Then figure out what 5% of that is.Then divide that by 10. Then divide it by 52. Now ask yourself if you would be comfortable to invest that in Huddersfield Town ever week for the next 10 years and get the opportunity to be owner of the club. I bet you say yes. Even if you're gonna tell me he's leaving £10m of his loans in, that still only takes it to 9% of his net worth invested to get the opportunity to own and run the football club he has supported all his life. Again, do the maths on your own net worth, work out the total weekly amount and then tell me you wouldn't invest that each week to have the opportunity to own and run Huddersfield Town for 10 years. Yes he has lost money. Yes his financial advisers probably told him not to do it. Yes he could have made a ton of money investing elsewhere. But come on, by the time the final loan repayment has been made, he'll have invested less than 10% of his near £300m fortune in Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to be owner and chairman of the club......for me, that's a cracking bit of business Even better bit of business when you consider if Schindler had missed and he'd have sold then he was happily getting bugger all of it back.
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Post by dugnet on May 7, 2021 10:05:31 GMT 1
He bought, owned and ran his boyhood club, a club he's supported all his life, for 10 years. That's an opportunity I would imagine the majority of football fans would love to have. Regardless of what division, assets and squad that team was in or had It's then cost him about £15.6m over 10 years. Approximately 5% of his net worth according to last year's Sunday Times Rich list. Over the last 10 years he's invested 5% of his estimated net worth into Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to own the club. Something I'm sure a lot of us would love to do. Now, just think about what your own personal wealth is. Then figure out what 5% of that is.Then divide that by 10. Then divide it by 52. Now ask yourself if you would be comfortable to invest that in Huddersfield Town ever week for the next 10 years and get the opportunity to be owner of the club. I bet you say yes. Even if you're gonna tell me he's leaving £10m of his loans in, that still only takes it to 9% of his net worth invested to get the opportunity to own and run the football club he has supported all his life. Again, do the maths on your own net worth, work out the total weekly amount and then tell me you wouldn't invest that each week to have the opportunity to own and run Huddersfield Town for 10 years. Yes he has lost money. Yes his financial advisers probably told him not to do it. Yes he could have made a ton of money investing elsewhere. But come on, by the time the final loan repayment has been made, he'll have invested less than 10% of his near £300m fortune in Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to be owner and chairman of the club......for me, that's a cracking bit of business Even better bit of business when you consider if Schindler had missed and he'd have sold then he was happily getting bugger all of it back. Here's a question: Had Schindler missed and we lost, putting aside all the experience, would the club have been in a better overall position? It's impossible to answer and I am not sure there's much point to debate but I can't help but wonder.
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Post by Mastercracker on May 7, 2021 10:34:02 GMT 1
Even better bit of business when you consider if Schindler had missed and he'd have sold then he was happily getting bugger all of it back. Here's a question: Had Schindler missed and we lost, putting aside all the experience, would the club have been in a better overall position? It's impossible to answer and I am not sure there's much point to debate but I can't help but wonder. Certainly open to question which it sure as hell shouldn't be.
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wigster
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Post by wigster on May 7, 2021 13:14:22 GMT 1
Here's a question: Had Schindler missed and we lost, putting aside all the experience, would the club have been in a better overall position? It's impossible to answer and I am not sure there's much point to debate but I can't help but wonder. Certainly open to question which it sure as hell shouldn't be. Not sure there's even a question - we had a much better team in those days, hadn't raised expectations and then destroyed them, and owed a lot less money. Apart from the nitty gritty practical stuff - look at our squad now and what we owe - there is the intangible stuff connected to how we messed up that massive opportunity of the Premier league - the negative feelings raised by that are almost immeasurable. Couple that with the feelings raised by the infamous deal and NDAs and the question is resolved.
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Post by dugnet on May 7, 2021 13:34:27 GMT 1
Certainly open to question which it sure as hell shouldn't be. Not sure there's even a question - we had a much better team in those days, hadn't raised expectations and then destroyed them, and owed a lot less money. Apart from the nitty gritty practical stuff - look at our squad now and what we owe - there is the intangible stuff connected to how we messed up that massive opportunity of the Premier league - the negative feelings raised by that are almost immeasurable. Couple that with the feelings raised by the infamous deal and NDAs and the question is resolved. I agree, but to play devils advocate, and reflect on the people who take the view, they would rather have had the experience (at any cost). I guess this is an individual opinion which will differ. My view is I loved the experience from Wembley to Stamford Bridge. Had that been achieved with a sustainable longer term view I would have been delighted, accepting that Premier League relegation was a inevitable outcome.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on May 7, 2021 15:51:10 GMT 1
Given that some folk think this thread (https://downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/115754/david-wagner-hero-villain) was written to shift the focus from Dean Hoyle to David Wagner, have at it. What's your verdict? I'd say hero turned villain, if rumours of his conduct since deciding to sell the club are to be believed, and I'd wager some of them must have a degree of truth. Colours to the mast - I have no time for Phil. I think he's a charlatan and is damaging the club. He should never have agreed to the deal if he felt he couldn't cope with the terms of it (even pre-covid). I've also met Dean, Janet and their lads on several occasions, and on a personal level like all of them a hell of a lot. I have a great deal of respect for them all, and gratitude for the positive impact they had on the club and the community. But, I'm a firm believer that if you take praise for your good deeds and successes, you have to take criticism for your bad deeds and failings. I have no issue with Dean being repaid the money he lent the club, but if the speed/rate or repayment leaves the club hamstrung and inept, on the verge of relegation or worse, then I have to condemn that. Additionally, I think the decisions made upon promotion and since showed real naivety and believe this is the crux of the matter - when Webber left, we made a series of flawed, poor decisions. Anyway, your views? Remember, let's not be abusive, but otherwise speak freely. Wow! How many members of DATM have started a thread to then discover that a moderator has started a new thread in an attempt to undermine the presumed intention of the member's thread? 'Given that some folk' appears cowardly and suggests that you needed to hide your motives for your thread behind 'some folk'. Those 'some folk' and yourself are incorrect in their presumption of my intentions. The majority of the recent focus has actually been on PH, CC and various people who have held the role of DOF. My intentions were as stated in my recent response on the thread in question. Are you ok, Pete? Everything OK at home? More than one person insinuated, on your other thread, that the intention was to deflect criticism from Dean Hoyle. In fact one even suggested you were simply posting content on his behalf. This is evident for all. I'm a lot of things, Pete, but a coward when it comes to posting my views online I am not. So, and I say this with all the respect you deserve, get back in your box.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on May 7, 2021 15:53:26 GMT 1
Even better bit of business when you consider if Schindler had missed and he'd have sold then he was happily getting bugger all of it back. Here's a question: Had Schindler missed and we lost, putting aside all the experience, would the club have been in a better overall position? It's impossible to answer and I am not sure there's much point to debate but I can't help but wonder. I've said, regularly, that we went up too soon. If Schindler had missed and we'd had another crack, going up a year later, I believe we'd have been better equipped for longer term survival in the EPL.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 7, 2021 15:57:54 GMT 1
He bought a middling League 1 club with no assets whatsoever and a squad which would go on to be sold for a combined fee of £45k. You try selling one of those to prospective buyers with the promise it will be a 'cracking bit of business in football terms' because when you sell it, it will have only cost you £30,000 a week for 10 years. Think it would be a tough sell, even if you do get to hob nob it with some famous types along the way. He bought, owned and ran his boyhood club, a club he's supported all his life, for 10 years. That's an opportunity I would imagine the majority of football fans would love to have. Regardless of what division, assets and squad that team was in or had It's then cost him about £15.6m over 10 years. Approximately 5% of his net worth according to last year's Sunday Times Rich list. Over the last 10 years he's invested 5% of his estimated net worth into Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to own the club. Something I'm sure a lot of us would love to do. Now, just think about what your own personal wealth is. Then figure out what 5% of that is.Then divide that by 10. Then divide it by 52. Now ask yourself if you would be comfortable to invest that in Huddersfield Town ever week for the next 10 years and get the opportunity to be owner of the club. I bet you say yes. Even if you're gonna tell me he's leaving £10m of his loans in, that still only takes it to 9% of his net worth invested to get the opportunity to own and run the football club he has supported all his life. Again, do the maths on your own net worth, work out the total weekly amount and then tell me you wouldn't invest that each week to have the opportunity to own and run Huddersfield Town for 10 years. Yes he has lost money. Yes his financial advisers probably told him not to do it. Yes he could have made a ton of money investing elsewhere. But come on, by the time the final loan repayment has been made, he'll have invested less than 10% of his near £300m fortune in Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to be owner and chairman of the club......for me, that's a cracking bit of business Perhaps this is the problem. 'Doing the maths' based on figures you don't actually know. You're basing a lot of you views on this 5% figure of his wealth you'vre going with. Because it was in the Sunday Times rich list?.. a publication well known for often getting its figures miles out. For some reason I think they've always worked on the theory he owned all the company he sold. I actually knew someone else who was in it many years ago, and he couldn't believe how rich they thought he was! Was a bit pissed off actually as he expected it to be harder for him to do decent deals after that. regardless though, it might be described as a 'cracking experience' for a life long fan to run the club ( though I imagine a lot of it was a bloody shit experience too! ) , but it certainly wasn't a 'cracking bit of business' when you've lost so much money. The whole point of business is you make money, not lose it!!
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Post by Captainslapper on May 7, 2021 16:06:57 GMT 1
Even better bit of business when you consider if Schindler had missed and he'd have sold then he was happily getting bugger all of it back. Here's a question: Had Schindler missed and we lost, putting aside all the experience, would the club have been in a better overall position? It's impossible to answer and I am not sure there's much point to debate but I can't help but wonder. My gut feeling is, no we wouldn't be. We'd be pretty much where we are now ( at best ) just without the experience of those 2 PL years. That season was a one off. To go up with a negative goal difference like that .. for a team to come together like it did,... not have that many key injuries. Would we have been anywhere near as close again? No way of knowing but I doubt it. Mooy for one wouldn't have signed had we not gone up I wouldn't think and he'd become a huge part of that side. Would Wagner have stayed even? He'd already become much coveted just by taking us up the championship in the way he did.
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Sparrow
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Post by Sparrow on May 7, 2021 16:59:51 GMT 1
He bought, owned and ran his boyhood club, a club he's supported all his life, for 10 years. That's an opportunity I would imagine the majority of football fans would love to have. Regardless of what division, assets and squad that team was in or had It's then cost him about £15.6m over 10 years. Approximately 5% of his net worth according to last year's Sunday Times Rich list. Over the last 10 years he's invested 5% of his estimated net worth into Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to own the club. Something I'm sure a lot of us would love to do. Now, just think about what your own personal wealth is. Then figure out what 5% of that is.Then divide that by 10. Then divide it by 52. Now ask yourself if you would be comfortable to invest that in Huddersfield Town ever week for the next 10 years and get the opportunity to be owner of the club. I bet you say yes. Even if you're gonna tell me he's leaving £10m of his loans in, that still only takes it to 9% of his net worth invested to get the opportunity to own and run the football club he has supported all his life. Again, do the maths on your own net worth, work out the total weekly amount and then tell me you wouldn't invest that each week to have the opportunity to own and run Huddersfield Town for 10 years. Yes he has lost money. Yes his financial advisers probably told him not to do it. Yes he could have made a ton of money investing elsewhere. But come on, by the time the final loan repayment has been made, he'll have invested less than 10% of his near £300m fortune in Huddersfield Town and had the opportunity to be owner and chairman of the club......for me, that's a cracking bit of business Perhaps this is the problem. 'Doing the maths' based on figures you don't actually know. You're basing a lot of you views on this 5% figure of his wealth you'vre going with. Because it was in the Sunday Times rich list?.. a publication well known for often getting its figures miles out. For some reason I think they've always worked on the theory he owned all the company he sold. I actually knew someone else who was in it many years ago, and he couldn't believe how rich they thought he was! Was a bit pissed off actually as he expected it to be harder for him to do decent deals after that. regardless though, it might be described as a 'cracking experience' for a life long fan to run the club ( though I imagine a lot of it was a bloody shit experience too! ) , but it certainly wasn't a 'cracking bit of business' when you've lost so much money. The whole point of business is you make money, not lose it!! You really don't get the point I'm trying to make do you. You're just reading with the intent to reply. Why not read with the intent to understand the point. You are 100% right that it's not a cracking piece of business in the true sense of the word as yes the idea of business is to make money. But, in the context of owning, running, and financing a football club over a 10 year period, taking them from league 1 to the premier league, for less than £2.6m a year, to a multimillionaire business man. That's a cracking bit of 'football business'. Most football club owners lose more than £26m over a 10 year period. And it's quite possible that his financial loss is less than £26m as we dont know what PH paid him for his 75% shareholding and he'll probably buy the remaining 25% from him at some point. As I've previously said PH will have paid more to DH for 75% than DH paid to KD for 100%. Plus DH could still get the remaining £10m back.....In the end he might have lost less than an average of £1m a year. Once again, a cracking bit of business.....In the context of the business of football. Even is DH is only worth a quarter of the quoted figure in the Sunday Times Rich list, it would still only be 20-45% of his net worth for the privilege of owning and running HTAFC.....again, do the maths on your own net worth and ask yourself if you would take that deal. 20-45% of your net worth to own and run HTAFC for a decade. I recon you would. Or if you wouldn't, I recon a lot would.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 7, 2021 17:48:42 GMT 1
I think I do understand your point. I think its that him 'only' losing £30k a week for 10 years is a cracking bit of business in the football club owning business simply because others sometimes lose a lot more.
Thats where I don't agree.
Its still an utterly shit bit of business.. just because it isn't as shit as some others manage, doesn't make it good! Its just less shit.
Not sure you'd be right that 'most football club owners lose more than £26m over a ten year period' anyway.
In the Championship they well might, but most clubs arent in the championship. In the PL and in the tiers below I doubt they do.
The Championship is where owning a club is a financial killer for owners. So close to the riches of the prem but having to compete with lots of other owners equally desperate to get on that gravy train.
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Post by ShortbreadPete on May 7, 2021 19:20:09 GMT 1
Wow! How many members of DATM have started a thread to then discover that a moderator has started a new thread in an attempt to undermine the presumed intention of the member's thread? 'Given that some folk' appears cowardly and suggests that you needed to hide your motives for your thread behind 'some folk'. Those 'some folk' and yourself are incorrect in their presumption of my intentions. The majority of the recent focus has actually been on PH, CC and various people who have held the role of DOF. My intentions were as stated in my recent response on the thread in question. Are you ok, Pete? Everything OK at home? More than one person insinuated, on your other thread, that the intention was to deflect criticism from Dean Hoyle. In fact one even suggested you were simply posting content on his behalf. This is evident for all. I'm a lot of things, Pete, but a coward when it comes to posting my views online I am not. So, and I say this with all the respect you deserve, get back in your box. Thanks for asking. Under all the circumstances I'm doing well thanks BigDaddyG and hope you are too. I note your claim to be keeping it honest but do you accept that you started a new thread in an attempt to undermine the presumed intention of my thread? Also, do you accept that writing 'I say this with all the respect you deserve, get back in your box' was a bit small? Love and peace UTT
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Sparrow
Steve Kindon Terrier
Posts: 1,771
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Post by Sparrow on May 7, 2021 21:54:04 GMT 1
I think I do understand your point. I think its that him 'only' losing £30k a week for 10 years is a cracking bit of business in the football club owning business simply because others sometimes lose a lot more. Thats where I don't agree. Its still an utterly shit bit of business.. just because it isn't as shit as some others manage, doesn't make it good! Its just less shit. Not sure you'd be right that 'most football club owners lose more than £26m over a ten year period' anyway. In the Championship they well might, but most clubs arent in the championship. In the PL and in the tiers below I doubt they do. The Championship is where owning a club is a financial killer for owners. So close to the riches of the prem but having to compete with lots of other owners equally desperate to get on that gravy train. How much was DH putting in each year when we were in L1? If we'd have spent all 10 years in league 1 how much would he have put in? If he would have put whatever your answer is over 10 years, then surely a good number of the other teams owners in L1 would have put a similar amount in. Slightly less in L2. How much did PH put in over a short period at Non League? Anyway, you and I seem to be a long way apart in our opinions, which is no bad thing really. I guess we'll just have to disagree....UTT
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Post by ACW on May 7, 2021 23:28:04 GMT 1
Villain. I actually enjoyed the Rubery years to a greater extent. season 97-98 The great escape. season 98-99 Rubery's first season, the beginnings of a decent squad season 99-00 Steve Bruce' first season, top of the table on merit at Christmas. or bluffing our way to the premier league, with a negative goal difference, then glad to be there with a collection of players who were both expensive and very average, coupled with incompetence behind the scenes in most all departments. A tough choice. Bluffing our way to the Premier League? Fuck off.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 8, 2021 0:12:43 GMT 1
I think I do understand your point. I think its that him 'only' losing £30k a week for 10 years is a cracking bit of business in the football club owning business simply because others sometimes lose a lot more. Thats where I don't agree. Its still an utterly shit bit of business.. just because it isn't as shit as some others manage, doesn't make it good! Its just less shit. Not sure you'd be right that 'most football club owners lose more than £26m over a ten year period' anyway. In the Championship they well might, but most clubs arent in the championship. In the PL and in the tiers below I doubt they do. The Championship is where owning a club is a financial killer for owners. So close to the riches of the prem but having to compete with lots of other owners equally desperate to get on that gravy train. How much was DH putting in each year when we were in L1? If we'd have spent all 10 years in league 1 how much would he have put in? If he would have put whatever your answer is over 10 years, then surely a good number of the other teams owners in L1 would have put a similar amount in. Slightly less in L2. How much did PH put in over a short period at Non League? Anyway, you and I seem to be a long way apart in our opinions, which is no bad thing really. I guess we'll just have to disagree....UTT Im not sure but seem to recall the £5m figure being mentioned. He came in and basically set about trying to buy our way up. Really doubt he'd have done that for 10 years in league 1. Think he seriously considered bailing out in 2011 after the Peterborough mess. That was only 2 seasons into his full ownership. Gave it another year and we did it, but I wouldn't have been at all surprised if he'd have had a re-think if we'd lost to Sheff Utd in that final. Could be totally wrong though. Reason being he was pumping in WAY more than pretty much every other owner at that level and it still wasn't getting us up. A few of the bigger clubs we faced in those seasons who'd dropped down to that level carrying big contracts might be different ( Sheff Wed, Southampton Leeds, Norwich etc) but the majority.. the traditional league 1 outfits won't be draining their owners of £5m every year I wouldn't think. And we had become a pretty traditional League 1 outfit at the time. Think for any businessman, buying a football club is always going to be financially draining folly.. unless of course you go from nowhere into the PL,, and don't blow it all on a string of catastrophically bad signings!!
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