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Post by pterrier on Apr 27, 2024 18:30:56 GMT 1
Gutted we’ve gone down but as a club and a fanbase, rather than feeling sorry for ourselves or pointing fingers, let’s use it as an opportunity to reset the culture of the club. I’d like to see the following:
1. A winning mentality and culture across the club; not accepting being a ‘working class club’ or an underdog.
2. A proper scouting infrastructure to be put in place.
3. A new director of football who isn’t living off a few mediocre seasons at Stoke from six years ago and a chief executive with experience of working at an EFL club.
4. Getting rid of bad apples at the club, sell them if they don’t want to be here or aren’t going to put in the ground work. There’s too many individuals in this squad who play for themselves.
5. A clear vision for how we want to play football; we’ve had three managers in place this season, all with different styles and ideologies. It’s symptomatic of a lack of direction from the top. Saying things like a three year plan to the Prem is cheap and easy, first of all put in place a clear ethos at the club and recruit and implement things according to that.
If we can do at least 3 or 4 of the above then next season and beyond could be an enjoyable ride; I hope the chairman shares a similar outlook.
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KingNeil
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by KingNeil on Apr 27, 2024 18:32:39 GMT 1
The last reset was 11 years!!
Hope your used to long haul!
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Post by pterrier on Apr 27, 2024 18:34:31 GMT 1
The last reset was 11 years!! Hope your used to long haul! Not helped by having huge levels of debt and chairman who literally had to mortgage his own house to keep the club afloat for a season before we plunged into admin. I’d like to think Nagle isn’t rubbery. |
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htafcokay
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,877
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 27, 2024 18:35:55 GMT 1
The last reset was 11 years!! Hope your used to long haul! Not helped by having huge levels of debt and chairman who literally had to mortgage his own house to keep the club afloat for a season before we plunged into admin. I’d like to think Nagle isn’t rubbery. He's got about as much clue as Rubery. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Apr 28, 2024 8:10:12 GMT 1
League One is 70% about heart, 20% skill and 10% luck
We have too many players lacking the heart on the books
We do retain solid pros who remain under contract and are unlikely to get offers next season. A good side is built on a good defence; Turton, Lees, Pearson and Ruffells (if ever fit) are a solid (albeit aging) back line for League One. Maxwell a steady keeper. I think all five strike as good pros with plenty of heart
Healy if he stays should be a 20 goal a season man. He'll be on good money but proper strikers aren't cheap
I think Kasumu will still be here and I hope Headley is. I also think Jackson and Jones will be fine at that level. If terms are right Hogg would be a decent option at L1 as a squad option. Ayina and Iorpenda to step up from the B Team
So that's 13 names who realistically could still be hear next year and who I think would be worth having - all about opinions though. That would mean we'd need 8 or 9 new players for the squad if the rest leave
Of the rest I think only four will have teams after them (Nichols, Spencer, Helik, Rudoni) and they will move easily/quickly as they deserve to stay in that league. The others probably need moving on if deals can be done as I think we urgently need to cut the wage bill but not going to be easy finding clubs for them
It's a huge summer and rebuild
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 28, 2024 8:18:00 GMT 1
League One is 70% about heart, 20% skill and 10% luck We have too many players lacking the heart on the books We do retain solid pros who remain under contract and are unlikely to get offers next season. A good side is built on a good defence; Turton, Lees, Pearson and Ruffells (if ever fit) are a solid (albeit aging) back line for League One. Maxwell a steady keeper. I think all five strike as good pros with plenty of heart Healy if he stays should be a 20 goal a season man. He'll be on good money but proper strikers aren't cheap I think Kasumu will still be here and I hope Headley is. I also think Jackson and Jones will be fine at that level. If terms are right Hogg would be a decent option at L1 as a squad option. Ayina and Iorpenda to step up from the B Team So that's 13 names who realistically could still be hear next year and who I think would be worth having - all about opinions though. That would mean we'd need 8 or 9 new players for the squad if the rest leave Of the rest I think only four will have teams after them (Nichols, Spencer, Helik, Rudoni) and they will move easily/quickly as they deserve to stay in that league. The others probably need moving on if deals can be done as I think we urgently need to cut the wage bill but not going to be easy finding clubs for them It's a huge summer and rebuild The only ones out of those 4 you have named there that is likely to be able to command a move is Hekik. Rudoni is a League 1 player and I say that as a fan of his, Nichols overated and Spencer are relative novice. |
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Post by workshyfop on Apr 28, 2024 8:23:00 GMT 1
You’ve missed Thomas. He’ll probably be off to Real Madrid, I should imagine. They’ve lacked a dead ball specialist since the days of Beckham and Roberto Carlos.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Apr 28, 2024 8:23:59 GMT 1
League One is 70% about heart, 20% skill and 10% luck We have too many players lacking the heart on the books We do retain solid pros who remain under contract and are unlikely to get offers next season. A good side is built on a good defence; Turton, Lees, Pearson and Ruffells (if ever fit) are a solid (albeit aging) back line for League One. Maxwell a steady keeper. I think all five strike as good pros with plenty of heart Healy if he stays should be a 20 goal a season man. He'll be on good money but proper strikers aren't cheap I think Kasumu will still be here and I hope Headley is. I also think Jackson and Jones will be fine at that level. If terms are right Hogg would be a decent option at L1 as a squad option. Ayina and Iorpenda to step up from the B Team So that's 13 names who realistically could still be hear next year and who I think would be worth having - all about opinions though. That would mean we'd need 8 or 9 new players for the squad if the rest leave Of the rest I think only four will have teams after them (Nichols, Spencer, Helik, Rudoni) and they will move easily/quickly as they deserve to stay in that league. The others probably need moving on if deals can be done as I think we urgently need to cut the wage bill but not going to be easy finding clubs for them It's a huge summer and rebuild The only ones out of those 4 you have named there I'd be happy if any of those 4 are still here - they have not shamed themselves in a tough season I do think Sorba will get a move - I just doubt we'll get a good fee Wiles, Koroma, Balker, High, Asterfield, Radulovic, Simpson, Hudlin, Harratt, Ward from looking at the squad now are others under contract that we can live without if we can get a buyer/ someone to take on there contract Diarra, Yuta, Mahoney, Rowe, Rhodes all out of contract. Edwards, Matos and Burzorg loans end For a massive squad it sums up that 4 maybe 5 are Championship quality but the summer will show what offers these legends in there own imaginations get |
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Post by stanton1969 on Apr 28, 2024 8:34:47 GMT 1
Only players I'd keep :
Nicholls
Turton
Helik
Pearson
Simpson
Ruffels
Headley
Rudoni
Kasumu
Healey
Radulovic (if he can get fit)
Jones (good potential)
I accept some of the above may want away. There are also some I haven't mentioned because I don't know if they have potential (e.g Iorpenda)
We will need 10+ new signings.
I'd keep AB if we can and let him build.
We need a change in decision makers to people who actually know what they are doing.
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Post by willo on Apr 28, 2024 11:17:35 GMT 1
Only players I'd keep : Nicholls Turton Helik Pearson Simpson Ruffels Headley Rudoni Kasumu Healey Radulovic (if he can get fit) Jones (good potential) I accept some of the above may want away. There are also some I haven't mentioned because I don't know if they have potential (e.g Iorpenda) We will need 10+ new signings. I'd keep AB if we can and let him build. We need a change in decision makers to people who actually know what they are doing. If AB stays, you know he’ll be bringing in a fair few Germans and others. We know what the mentality of these players is, let’s hope some of it rubs off on those players who remain! |
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Post by alexdire on Apr 28, 2024 11:21:10 GMT 1
The last reset was 11 years!! Hope your used to long haul! After 87/88 they came out with. We'll consolidate the first season and then go for promotion. It took seven seasons. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Apr 28, 2024 11:30:38 GMT 1
Consolidation is the biggest load of negative bollocks going.
Absolutely no excuse for not grabbing the bull by the horns, swinging our bollocks and having a right good go at winning this shite fucking league.
Nagle needs to step up. Whether he can or not only time will tell.
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Post by Sio on Apr 28, 2024 12:06:57 GMT 1
The more I reflect on it, the more I wonder if relegation was the only way we were ever going to escape this endless cycle of misery.
I like Kevin as a person, but I don't think he particularly knows what he's dealing with, and relegation is about a big a wake-up call as we could've received this season.
In a way, I wonder if we, Kev, and his team, needed it. Would we have overhauled the system and squad had we survived? I doubt it - I reckon we'd be revelling in the 'success' and arrogantly carrying on like we did last summer, and like we did firing Warnock, and like we did keeping Moore.
It could go either way next season, but maybe the club, unfortunately, has no other way out of this loop than to realise how badly we've been run, and experience the true result of that.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 28, 2024 12:11:57 GMT 1
The more I reflect on it, the more I wonder if relegation was the only way we were ever going to escape this endless cycle of misery. I like Kevin as a person, but I don't think he particularly knows what he's dealing with, and relegation is about a big a wake-up call as we could've received this season. In a way, I wonder if we, Kev, and his team, needed it. Would we have overhauled the system and squad had we survived? I doubt it - I reckon we'd be revelling in the 'success' and arrogantly carrying on like we did last summer, and like we did firing Warnock, and like we did keeping Moore. It could go either way next season, but maybe the club, unfortunately, has no other way out of this loop than to realise how badly we've been run, and experience the true result of that. We could have easily had a rebuild if we had survived to be fair, dismantle the squad, rebuild and finish mid table. That would have been more palatable than League One. I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, just think we could have done it without the relegation. |
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Post by Sio on Apr 28, 2024 12:21:46 GMT 1
The more I reflect on it, the more I wonder if relegation was the only way we were ever going to escape this endless cycle of misery. I like Kevin as a person, but I don't think he particularly knows what he's dealing with, and relegation is about a big a wake-up call as we could've received this season. In a way, I wonder if we, Kev, and his team, needed it. Would we have overhauled the system and squad had we survived? I doubt it - I reckon we'd be revelling in the 'success' and arrogantly carrying on like we did last summer, and like we did firing Warnock, and like we did keeping Moore. It could go either way next season, but maybe the club, unfortunately, has no other way out of this loop than to realise how badly we've been run, and experience the true result of that. We could have easily had a rebuild if we had survived to be fair, dismantle the squad, rebuild and finish mid table. That would have been more palatable than League One. I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, just think we could have done it without the relegation. But without the pressure, would we have done? |
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Post by runner76 on Apr 28, 2024 12:24:56 GMT 1
Consolidation is the biggest load of negative bollocks going. Absolutely no excuse for not grabbing the bull by the horns, swinging our bollocks and having a right good go at winning this shite fucking league. Nagle needs to step up. Whether he can or not only time will tell. Yes, yes and yes again. Let’s go for the title. Big dogs for a change. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Apr 28, 2024 12:25:09 GMT 1
The more I reflect on it, the more I wonder if relegation was the only way we were ever going to escape this endless cycle of misery. I like Kevin as a person, but I don't think he particularly knows what he's dealing with, and relegation is about a big a wake-up call as we could've received this season. In a way, I wonder if we, Kev, and his team, needed it. Would we have overhauled the system and squad had we survived? I doubt it - I reckon we'd be revelling in the 'success' and arrogantly carrying on like we did last summer, and like we did firing Warnock, and like we did keeping Moore. It could go either way next season, but maybe the club, unfortunately, has no other way out of this loop than to realise how badly we've been run, and experience the true result of that. We could have easily had a rebuild if we had survived to be fair, dismantle the squad, rebuild and finish mid table. That would have been more palatable than League One. I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, just think we could have done it without the relegation. I think you're underestimating how difficult it would be to shift out the players under contract and then replace them with mid table championship quality. Atleast in league one plenty of the current squad are good enough and we just add some quality around them. Then next summer (hopefully following promotion) we add more quality to replace those out of contract. This is going to be a 3 or 4 year process to reshape the club and is massively reliant on good recruitment which is why Cartwright calling the shots is worrying |
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Dan on Apr 28, 2024 12:45:35 GMT 1
We could have easily had a rebuild if we had survived to be fair, dismantle the squad, rebuild and finish mid table. That would have been more palatable than League One. I'm not saying you're wrong by the way, just think we could have done it without the relegation. I think you're underestimating how difficult it would be to shift out the players under contract and then replace them with mid table championship quality. Atleast in league one plenty of the current squad are good enough and we just add some quality around them. Then next summer (hopefully following promotion) we add more quality to replace those out of contract. This is going to be a 3 or 4 year process to reshape the club and is massively reliant on good recruitment which is why Cartwright calling the shots is worrying Yep. Because of the relegation, looking at the squad, the only ones I think we really need to move on are High, Simpson and Hudlin. Diarra, Nakayama, Hogg, Mahoney, Rhodes, Rowe, Ayina, Chapman are all out of contract. Chapman may get another year. Edwards, Matos, Burgzorg loans finish. We'll need to sell Sorba. Reluctantly we'll have to probably sell Helik. I'm not so sure we'll see Championship clubs offering money for Nicholls but if they do, fair enough, he'll go. Would love to keep Spencer, but I think he'll be angling for a move and we'll probably get a few million for him. Rudoni's lack of goals may mean we don't get the offers that we probably think he's worth. We'll see how that plays out and if we buckle and let him go or keep him. GK: Maxwell, Chapman, maybe Nicholls DF: Turton, Pearson, Balker, Lees, Ruffels, Jackson, Headley MF: Koroma, Kasumu, Wiles, Rudoni (?), Jones ST: Radulovic, Healey, Ward, Harratt Will need a fair bit spent on midfield clearly. But, like you say, the rebuild isn't actually as severe as it would have needed to be if we'd stayed up. There's about 10 more players we'd have needed to try and move on in that scenario. |
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Post by cuz on Apr 28, 2024 12:51:33 GMT 1
I think you're underestimating how difficult it would be to shift out the players under contract and then replace them with mid table championship quality. Atleast in league one plenty of the current squad are good enough and we just add some quality around them. Then next summer (hopefully following promotion) we add more quality to replace those out of contract. This is going to be a 3 or 4 year process to reshape the club and is massively reliant on good recruitment which is why Cartwright calling the shots is worrying Yep. Because of the relegation, looking at the squad, the only ones I think we really need to move on are High, Simpson and Hudlin. Diarra, Nakayama, Hogg, Mahoney, Rhodes, Rowe, Ayina, Chapman are all out of contract. Chapman may get another year. Edwards, Matos, Burgzorg loans finish. We'll need to sell Sorba. Reluctantly we'll have to probably sell Helik. I'm not so sure we'll see Championship clubs offering money for Nicholls but if they do, fair enough, he'll go. Would love to keep Spencer, but I think he'll be angling for a move and we'll probably get a few million for him. Rudoni's lack of goals may mean we don't get the offers that we probably think he's worth. We'll see how that plays out and if we buckle and let him go or keep him. GK: Maxwell, Chapman, maybe Nicholls DF: Turton, Pearson, Balker, Lees, Ruffels, Jackson, Headley MF: Koroma, Kasumu, Wiles, Rudoni (?), Jones ST: Radulovic, Healey, Ward, Harratt Will need a fair bit spent on midfield clearly. But, like you say, the rebuild isn't actually as severe as it would have needed to be if we'd stayed up. There's about 10 more players we'd have needed to try and move on in that scenario. If any of those with the bad attitude are still under contract we should tell them they will never play for us again, refuse them a squad number and let them decide if they want to rot or find a new club. |
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Post by harris on Apr 28, 2024 12:52:45 GMT 1
I think you're underestimating how difficult it would be to shift out the players under contract and then replace them with mid table championship quality. Atleast in league one plenty of the current squad are good enough and we just add some quality around them. Then next summer (hopefully following promotion) we add more quality to replace those out of contract. This is going to be a 3 or 4 year process to reshape the club and is massively reliant on good recruitment which is why Cartwright calling the shots is worrying Yep. Because of the relegation, looking at the squad, the only ones I think we really need to move on are High, Simpson and Hudlin. Diarra, Nakayama, Hogg, Mahoney, Rhodes, Rowe, Ayina, Chapman are all out of contract. Chapman may get another year. Edwards, Matos, Burgzorg loans finish. We'll need to sell Sorba. Reluctantly we'll have to probably sell Helik. I'm not so sure we'll see Championship clubs offering money for Nicholls but if they do, fair enough, he'll go. Would love to keep Spencer, but I think he'll be angling for a move and we'll probably get a few million for him. Rudoni's lack of goals may mean we don't get the offers that we probably think he's worth. We'll see how that plays out and if we buckle and let him go or keep him. GK: Maxwell, Chapman, maybe Nicholls DF: Turton, Pearson, Balker, Lees, Ruffels, Jackson, Headley MF: Koroma, Kasumu, Wiles, Rudoni (?), Jones ST: Radulovic, Healey, Ward, Harratt Will need a fair bit spent on midfield clearly. But, like you say, the rebuild isn't actually as severe as it would have needed to be if we'd stayed up. There's about 10 more players we'd have needed to try and move on in that scenario. Good post, sums it up well. & if we’re clearing out bad eggs, Harratt can go too. |
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Post by garyroberts'leftfoot on Apr 28, 2024 12:56:01 GMT 1
Yep. Because of the relegation, looking at the squad, the only ones I think we really need to move on are High, Simpson and Hudlin. Diarra, Nakayama, Hogg, Mahoney, Rhodes, Rowe, Ayina, Chapman are all out of contract. Chapman may get another year. Edwards, Matos, Burgzorg loans finish. We'll need to sell Sorba. Reluctantly we'll have to probably sell Helik. I'm not so sure we'll see Championship clubs offering money for Nicholls but if they do, fair enough, he'll go. Would love to keep Spencer, but I think he'll be angling for a move and we'll probably get a few million for him. Rudoni's lack of goals may mean we don't get the offers that we probably think he's worth. We'll see how that plays out and if we buckle and let him go or keep him. GK: Maxwell, Chapman, maybe Nicholls DF: Turton, Pearson, Balker, Lees, Ruffels, Jackson, Headley MF: Koroma, Kasumu, Wiles, Rudoni (?), Jones ST: Radulovic, Healey, Ward, Harratt Will need a fair bit spent on midfield clearly. But, like you say, the rebuild isn't actually as severe as it would have needed to be if we'd stayed up. There's about 10 more players we'd have needed to try and move on in that scenario. Good post, sums it up well. & if we’re clearing out bad eggs, Harratt can go too. Not sure if he is a bad egg around the club. Just misguided outside of it. He might be of value as a squad player in league 1. |
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,464
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Post by Dan on Apr 28, 2024 12:57:06 GMT 1
Yep. Because of the relegation, looking at the squad, the only ones I think we really need to move on are High, Simpson and Hudlin. Diarra, Nakayama, Hogg, Mahoney, Rhodes, Rowe, Ayina, Chapman are all out of contract. Chapman may get another year. Edwards, Matos, Burgzorg loans finish. We'll need to sell Sorba. Reluctantly we'll have to probably sell Helik. I'm not so sure we'll see Championship clubs offering money for Nicholls but if they do, fair enough, he'll go. Would love to keep Spencer, but I think he'll be angling for a move and we'll probably get a few million for him. Rudoni's lack of goals may mean we don't get the offers that we probably think he's worth. We'll see how that plays out and if we buckle and let him go or keep him. GK: Maxwell, Chapman, maybe Nicholls DF: Turton, Pearson, Balker, Lees, Ruffels, Jackson, Headley MF: Koroma, Kasumu, Wiles, Rudoni (?), Jones ST: Radulovic, Healey, Ward, Harratt Will need a fair bit spent on midfield clearly. But, like you say, the rebuild isn't actually as severe as it would have needed to be if we'd stayed up. There's about 10 more players we'd have needed to try and move on in that scenario. Good post, sums it up well. & if we’re clearing out bad eggs, Harratt can go too. I just think there's a difference between a bad egg and an idiot. Not seen any evidence that he causes issues in the dressing room. If we get close to the 25 man squad limit, then we can get rid, but if not I don't see the harm in keeping him as a 4th striker option. |
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htafcokay
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 28, 2024 12:58:44 GMT 1
Good post, sums it up well. & if we’re clearing out bad eggs, Harratt can go too. I just think there's a difference between a bad egg and an idiot. Not seen any evidence that he causes issues in the dressing room. If we get close to the 25 man squad limit, then we can get rid, but if not I don't see the harm in keeping him as a 4th striker option. Harratt would have benefitted with an arm round him, by such as Ronnie Jepson. I doubt he's a bad egg, he's just a rogue who's done some stupid things. |
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Post by benhomly on Apr 28, 2024 13:02:25 GMT 1
I think you're underestimating how difficult it would be to shift out the players under contract and then replace them with mid table championship quality. Atleast in league one plenty of the current squad are good enough and we just add some quality around them. Then next summer (hopefully following promotion) we add more quality to replace those out of contract. This is going to be a 3 or 4 year process to reshape the club and is massively reliant on good recruitment which is why Cartwright calling the shots is worrying Yep. Because of the relegation, looking at the squad, the only ones I think we really need to move on are High, Simpson and Hudlin. Diarra, Nakayama, Hogg, Mahoney, Rhodes, Rowe, Ayina, Chapman are all out of contract. Chapman may get another year. Edwards, Matos, Burgzorg loans finish. We'll need to sell Sorba. Reluctantly we'll have to probably sell Helik. I'm not so sure we'll see Championship clubs offering money for Nicholls but if they do, fair enough, he'll go. Would love to keep Spencer, but I think he'll be angling for a move and we'll probably get a few million for him. Rudoni's lack of goals may mean we don't get the offers that we probably think he's worth. We'll see how that plays out and if we buckle and let him go or keep him. GK: Maxwell, Chapman, maybe Nicholls DF: Turton, Pearson, Balker, Lees, Ruffels, Jackson, Headley MF: Koroma, Kasumu, Wiles, Rudoni (?), Jones ST: Radulovic, Healey, Ward, Harratt Will need a fair bit spent on midfield clearly. But, like you say, the rebuild isn't actually as severe as it would have needed to be if we'd stayed up. There's about 10 more players we'd have needed to try and move on in that scenario. If we're hoping for a quick return to the Championship then looking at that squad you've got left we'll need to spend a fair bit in all areas apart from keeper IMO. In defence I'd only be happy with Turton out of that lot. Balker either won't be here or will be on the treatment table for half the season which leaves a central defence of Pearson and Lees. We really need to move on from those 2, was it a Wednesday fan or Leeds fan who said he couldn't believe Lees was still playing? I really hope I never see Jackson pull on a Town shirt again. Headley has some promise but needs to deliver soon, probably end up in L2. That midfield is crap apart from Rudoni but I doubt he'll be here anyway. I like Kasumu because he always gives his all but don't see him improving much. Out of those strikers I think Healey will score a lot of goals in L1. Harratt and Ward fall into the Jackson category for me and Radulovic will just be targeted in L1 like he has been in the Championship. He was decked inside a couple of minutes yesterday and contributed nothing after that. |
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Post by harris on Apr 28, 2024 13:02:59 GMT 1
All good points above.
How many chances does he get though? Three strikes and you’re out? ‘Allegedly’ that third strike may have already happened if you believe the whispers on here.
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