Not Stan's Fault ...

[andyhudd]

I notice quite a few of you blame today's performance/result on Ternent ...

Personally, I think the team selection and tactics were fine. I'm sure Ternent didn't ask them to play well for a bit, then drop off ... let Brizzle get a goal back ... and then make a total mess of going forward.

Obviously, Ternent's got to train the players and get them to play the way he wants them to, but the players aren't blameless in all of this, by any means.

I don't think sacking Ternent would achieve anything. Craney, Flynn - initially thought to be terrible signings, by, in the most part - those who are currently calling for Stan's head. They've proven to be two of our better signings.

[pozza]

I agree Andy. The subs he made were spot on for me, cant fault him there IMO.

Only thing I personally would change is to put Holdsworth back in at RB, and then play Goodwin in the holding role instead of Worthington.

[andyhudd]

Well, I rate Holdsworth ... good player ... determined, gives his all ... but his performances at right back at times this season, haven't been all that impressive. I'm not sure if Goodwin's a better solution, but I think Holdsworth's versatility is as much a burden as a quality, at times!

[Deleted]

I think Stan has to take the blame for signing players (also inheriting some admittedly) who, however talented, seem to have pea sized hearts when it comes to performing under some pressure in front of their own fans

[Jayeff13]

Oct 18, 2008 20:11:45 GMT 1 @andyhudd said:

Well, I rate Holdsworth ... good player ... determined, gives his all ... but his performances at right back at times this season, haven't been all that impressive. I'm not sure if Goodwin's a better solution, but I think Holdsworth's versatility is as much a burden as a quality, at times!

At least we get a bit of movement down the flanks from Holdsworth, Goodwin just seems to pass the ball and either a) stand still or b) move backwards

[andyfcuk85]

Gotta Agree with you Andy, It's easy to blame ternent and his tactics I just carn't wait for ternent to shove these words of 'Ternent Out' down some of these fickle fans throats

[pozza]

Oct 18, 2008 20:11:45 GMT 1 @andyhudd said:

Well, I rate Holdsworth ... good player ... determined, gives his all ... but his performances at right back at times this season, haven't been all that impressive. I'm not sure if Goodwin's a better solution, but I think Holdsworth's versatility is as much a burden as a quality, at times!

Thing with Holdsworth is that he gives you a lot more going forward then Goodwin.

I dont think its in Goodwins game to go running forwards when were on the attack (hense why I think he'd be better deployed in the holding role)

As defenders I think JG & AH are about the same, but as an overall right back, it would be Holdsworth every time for me.

[shelbourne]

Well you know what IF that situation should occur I`ll bare my arse on the pitch

[Captainslapper]

He played in the holding role earlier in the season and was utter bobbins. Worthy was no great shakes today, along with everyone else, but in general hes been one of our best players this season so far so as with Holdsworth, why are people so keen to ditch our better players to shoehorn a limited player like Goodwin into the team? Whats next-try him in goal instead of Glennon?

[Scissett Terrier!]

Oct 19, 2008 1:34:26 GMT 1 Captainslapper said:

He played in the holding role earlier in the season and was utter bobbins. Worthy was no great shakes today, along with everyone else, but in general hes been one of our best players this season so far so as with Holdsworth, why are people so keen to ditch our better players to shoehorn a limited player like Goodwin into the team? Whats next-try him in goal instead of Glennon?

oh come slapper Worthing as been poor for weeks, his passign is not upto this level at all, id get crainey and fylnn in centre and if you want a holding midfeidl palyer goodwin instead of flynn

this constant obsestion with worthignton with some town fans is boardering on stupid now.

he aint got the skills for this level simple as!

[Nickhudds.UTT]

have to agree with you re worthy , was shocking yesterday but most of em were. maybe time for worthy to make way to try someone else ??

[deo1]

Oct 18, 2008 20:16:57 GMT 1 pozza said:

Oct 18, 2008 20:11:45 GMT 1 @andyhudd said:

Well, I rate Holdsworth ... good player ... determined, gives his all ... but his performances at right back at times this season, haven't been all that impressive. I'm not sure if Goodwin's a better solution, but I think Holdsworth's versatility is as much a burden as a quality, at times!

Thing with Holdsworth is that he gives you a lot more going forward then Goodwin.

I dont think its in Goodwins game to go running forwards when were on the attack (hense why I think he'd be better deployed in the holding role)

As defenders I think JG & AH are about the same, but as an overall right back, it would be Holdsworth every time for me.

correct me if i'm wrong but didn't goodwin set up both goals against leicester and has had a great hand in quite a few more from right back... he's good at getting in deep crosses, pity he didn't launch a few more in yesterday!!!!

[galph]

Fully agree

If worthy had been brought in by stan he would be universally slated on here - people are so blinkered because he is local and gives 110% every game.

Well I am local and would give 110% for my team everyweek but that does not mean I should be in the team.

If we want to progress we need to start in the vital centre mid position

[Rigodon]

Oct 18, 2008 20:13:51 GMT 1 @maynardblue said:

I think Stan has to take the blame for signing players (also inheriting some admittedly) who, however talented, seem to have pea sized hearts when it comes to performing under some pressure in front of their own fans

I think its the players Stan didn't sign thats a contributing factor.. Balance?? Yeah right stan...

[Rigodon]

I am also amazed at the initial thoughts on this thread.. 1 shot all game, at home - clearly the tactics were all wrong. Maybe right about worthy, but for me 1 striker up front at home is not going to get you results that are required for the playoffs. That is the aim after all. DH said so, as has stan. So quite how he expects that to work I don't know. Dicko's strength is not in the air, surely that is obvious? Our wingers could have been more productive, granted but that system is not going to win us games at home and we need to. Stan will fail in his objective this season as I really can't see us getting to the playoffs regardless of how many games we have left. Laws of probability in this league means we won't win 10-15 games on the bounce and at this rate we will need to. It's just a matter of how far off we will be as to whether Stan keeps his job IMO, again we aren't really improving on last year are we?

SO I find stan wholly responsible for the teams performance yesterday and how many times has that been the case this season? He's admitted himself he's picked the wrong team! I am convinced even Jacko would be getting far more out of this group of players than Stan will. Hope I am wrong!!! Sad that he's battered all of my "positivity" out of me to be fair, but I was very angry with his comments yesterday. Sent out a very bad signal IMO and for a manager of people hes hardly warranting alot of respect IMO.

[pjacko]

Don't agree Rigg... do you really think that Stan sends them out with the message 'I want you to boot the ball into the air towards Dicko all the time, I want you to keep slicing the ball out of play, pass to the other side, stand still instead of creating space, play head tennis in midfield instead of controlling the ball, don't get tight on players and don't bother marking or tackling at the back'?
I also believe his formation was supposed to be more 4-3-3 than one up front except we didn't get the ball out to the wide men Roberts and Jones quickly enough or support in the channels. But that would be Stan's fault would it? The players once again bottled it at home and their nervousness, thus lack of composure, is what's ruining our season and why they're playing better away.

[Rigodon]

Oct 19, 2008 10:28:17 GMT 1 pjacko said:

Don't agree Rigg... do you really think that Stan sends them out with the message 'I want you to boot the ball into the air towards Dicko all the time, I want you to keep slicing the ball out of play, pass to the other side, stand still instead of creating space, play head tennis in midfield instead of controlling the ball, don't get tight on players and don't bother marking or tackling at the back'?
I also believe his formation was supposed to be more 4-3-3 than one up front except we didn't get the ball out to the wide men Roberts and Jones quickly enough or support in the channels. But that would be Stan's fault would it? The players once again bottled it at home and their nervousness, thus lack of composure, is what's ruining our season and why they're playing better away.

I don't think, I KNOW he encourages them to boot it upfield - I've seen him do so from the touchline so many times - particulaly when goodwin was TRYING to PASS the ball! If that's the sum of all parts for this team we are spending 3.2 million a year on in wages alone, and your happy with his performance so far nigh on 6 months into a job with 10+ of of HIS OWN players, technically unlimited funds to buy who he wanted when he wanted, happy with a strategy that produced 1 shot against a team in the first half, IMO were there for the taking AT HOME and your convinced another manager wouldn't pick a more ambitious formation at home? That was a 5 man midfield my friend, clear as day from where I was sat, not 433. If it was 433 as you say, his change of formation was even more mindblowing when they equalised. We didn't kill the game off after scoring so quick - what kind of idiot would revert to 442 when we need another goal? Either way, he tactial masterstroke didn't pay dividends did it? We were SHOCKING second half. And yet again, either fitness concentration or 15 minutes in a room with a wanker shouting at you and we come out and conceded in the first 10mins of a second half. Coincidence??? How many times has that happened this season.. I am convinced the players he's brought in are capable of better, they've shown glimpses but they look very scared if you ask me.

Also, If your happy with the comments that stan came out with after the match which really take the biscuit for me, or if your happy that as I've already stated he DID send out 1 striker, he hasn't signed any others that fit into the system he is currently playing, nor has he signed a natural right back and complimentary winger to go with Roberts, then we shall just have to agree / disagree. ;D cause you ain't gonna convince me otherwise with your argument...!

Granted I am focusing on the negative a bit, throw me some positives and I may reconisder only I think you'll struggle to find em.

[andyhudd]

Did we not win 3-1 away at Swindon the other week, with the very same system?

If that system allows us to score 3 goals away from home (admittedly against a slightly weaker side than Brizzle), then how does it suddenly become so "negative and defensive" (as you'd describe it) at home?

We can score goals with that system - the problem is clearly a mental one. The great grandson of Ernie Islip (Islip played for Town in the 10s/20s) said, on this forum, that Ernie had much preferred playing away from home, because the fans were constantly on the players' backs ... maybe that hasn't changed in 90 years!

[Rigodon]

I see your point. But Swindon has lost 1-3 in all games this season I think barr the one the won 3-1 (Not looked at yesterdays results really as yet..)

???But would you not raise your game at home, in order to try and get our negative crowd behind the team? I don't agree with the booing, but theres only 1 reason it happens! Vicious circle perhaps.. But either way, it didn't work did it? And it got worse when he changed things. And my points RE comments and signings are still valid ones. Stans pissed me and alot of others off with his comments and I am venting my spleen - not said he should be sacked. But for me, and I am a glass half full kinda guy - it is not pointing in the right direction.. His track record and demeanour rattle me, and I hate to say it, but could be his downfall. We shall all see, and I have no qualms about eating my words - nothing would please me more!

[andyhudd]

Well, the fact remains - Town have often struggled at home, in front of big crowds. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is! When the pressure's on ... they tend to react badly.

Problem being, we've got 10 new players in this year, so you'd have thought this "squad personality" would have changed, but maybe it's the fans. Considering it's (arguably) been going on for 90 years!

[thomo]

the right back situation is interesting. Not signing one has certainly come back to bite stan on his backside. Then again so has him not making a better signing than Unsworth for LB. From what I've seen recently, we're terrible at both right and left back positions. Players are ghosting past Skarz for fun.

I'd agree that we can't read much into the Swindon result. Think we can take more heart from the Oldham performance but that seems like a blip at the moment.

I'm probably more frustrated than most at the moment as I haven't seen town win this season due to work commitments. Yesterday I whitnessed my first point! Had seen the defeats to MK Dons, Tranmere and Leicester before yesterday. Leicester I'd admit was slightly encouraging, but we looked no better than ok and I'd fully expect to have seen them kick on from there but yesterday's perfromance was more on a par with the tranmere game so we've again gone backwards.

[lindleyhitler]

Simple truth of the matter is that we are not good enough to challenge for promotion. We have been played off the park on our own patch too many times this season already by average 1st Division teams. Every team is good enough to win 1 or 2 matches now and again but a lot of you are getting so carried away if we win a match that it's untrue!! We do not all of a sudden become world beaters because we won 3-1 at Swindon. Our position in Division 1 is not false.

[pjacko]

Rigg... with a little more insight into the game you would realise that 4-3-3 is supposed to quickly turn in and out of 4-5-1 formation depending on how the opposition play and state of the game. My point is that the players are not carrying out instructions. There are times when the ball needs playing rapidly up front (but to Dicko's feet - not hundreds of feet into the sky) and there are other times when the ball should be sent out wide and passed through midfield. This is not being done by the players and there are no leaders out there taking responsibility or dictating play and keeping others concentrating. You're right the players are capable of better and they're scared of making mistakes but they get more stick off some of the fans than Stan who actually defended the players after the match and paid credit to Bristol who are on a run of good form.

[Rigodon]

Oct 19, 2008 12:03:38 GMT 1 @andyhudd said:

Well, the fact remains - Town have often struggled at home, in front of big crowds. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is! When the pressure's on ... they tend to react badly.

Problem being, we've got 10 new players in this year, so you'd have thought this "squad personality" would have changed, but maybe it's the fans. Considering it's (arguably) been going on for 90 years!

This is true... Still doesn't placate me though - the mans an arse, and like it's been said before, I shall support town long after he's gone. But he proper grinds my gears.. GRr...

[Tez]

Grinds your gears?


Neve heard the 'un. Sounds bit kinky that. ;d !

[Rigodon]

Oct 19, 2008 12:25:56 GMT 1 pjacko said:

Rigg... with a little more insight into the game you would realise that 4-3-3 is supposed to quickly turn in and out of 4-5-1 formation depending on how the opposition play and state of the game. My point is that the players are not carrying out instructions. There are times when the ball needs playing rapidly up front (but to Dicko's feet - not hundreds of feet into the sky) and there are other times when the ball should be sent out wide and passed through midfield. This is not being done by the players and there are no leaders out there taking responsibility or dictating play and keeping others concentrating. You're right the players are capable of better and they're scared of making mistakes but they get more stick off some of the fans than Stan who actually defended the players after the match and paid credit to Bristol who are on a run of good form.

You don't need to assume or even try to quantify my "insight" to the game of football, I know more than enough thank you.

Why are the players not following stans instructions then?

If that's the case, surely there is something else wrong that I have failed to mention today?

What I saw was a very unorganised defence, where butler was clearly not marking lambert at setpieces. Our main goal threat Dicko (IMO) was marking one of the leading scorers in our league. He had all the time in the world against us, it was simply a matter of time. I could see that high up in the library! The goal which he scored to equalise was well taken, but a sloppy one to concede. And we are constantly conceding these erroneous goal. No wonder Glennon is shinging for us at the moment, he's having to do alot of work!

Regardless of formation nor system - the model is clearly not working. We are poor defensively, thus you'd expect us to at least pour forward more and we produced 0 threat yesterday. And this to me is a pattern developing. I've found little to be encouraged by, sorry! Your right though, dicko needs it to feet, he was problematic yesterday in the first half (IMO) but faded quite quickly I think out of frustration - we cannot be pleasing him with the way - like you say, the ball isn't going in the right places. Feed the dick and he will score.. Oh err..

They did settle for the draw quite early on which really didn't help our cause but we did retain some possession only to squander it due to a lack of ideas, craney could really have helped there - either way yesterday was another "display of how far we have come" as far as I am concerned, and it simply wasn't good enough.

He still has till christmas / jan to show, probably further "acumen" in the transfer market and look like a team actually capable of promotion. I think DH will keep him 10th finish or above.. But should he fail to improve on last years position, would you consider that a step in the right direction?

Its all variable and peoples considerations differ, however he sounded like an utter koyunt yesterday, and ought to think before he opens his mouth in, essentially pleading for patience. He hasn't got alot to brag about - he's no mourinho...... His words in the past have mentioned balance, organisation and I saw none of that - the buck will always stop with the manager in the end, you know it and I know it. The more points we drop at home make it more difficult to achieve the objective - playoffs. Not my words....

[terrierng]

your lucky you could here him,ignorant twat was just mumbling and droning at the end of his interview with oggy,then when he thought he was off air said "will that do then?"the man needs to learn some fecking manners.

[Tez]

He needs a bloody good shake I reckon!

[Scissett Terrier!]

Oct 19, 2008 9:53:28 GMT 1 galph said:

Fully agree

If worthy had been brought in by stan he would be universally slated on here - people are so blinkered because he is local and gives 110% every game.

Well I am local and would give 110% for my team everyweek but that does not mean I should be in the team.

If we want to progress we need to start in the vital centre mid position

amen some people startign to realise he isnt upto it,

cant pass,
cant shoot,
reckless tackling
poor vision.

yes he has heart and is a tryer but that aint enough at this level

[shawsie]

Slapps will be on the warpath now!!
But i am in total agreement.