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Post by HD8 Blue & White on Oct 19, 2008 8:01:57 GMT 1
Yet the honest fact remains - in pretty much every home match so far we look good for 20 mins then mysteriously drop away in performance/ideas/commitment. So who's fault is it - players who simply aren't good enough to play for 90 mins like the first 20 or management for not getting them fit enough or inspired enough to turn it round. Something certainly needs to change somewhere or it will be mid table at best for us this season. This season has already got mid table mediocrity written all over it. Im sick to death now of Stans cliches and excuses. Im dislike the imbalance that one up front and 3 in central midfield gives us. Im fed up of seeing our best player being sat on the bench Im totally gutted that a season which promised so much will deliver nowt.
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Post by ksne on Oct 19, 2008 9:40:58 GMT 1
I would have settled for three to five good signings to add to what we already had.What did we get we got some of those but the majority are from the bargain basement.
How Goodwin got the MOM yesterday is totally baffling.
How Goodwin gets into our team ahead of Holdsworth is even more baffling.
I never expect Town to win every match but I do expect them to play a full 90 mins of football plus injury time.This season we have been lucky if they have managed to play for 30 mins.
A great disappointment so far this season.
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Post by thomo on Oct 19, 2008 12:02:03 GMT 1
I'd agree with most of that Rotary, however, I do think it was time for Mirf to move on. Clarke and Mirf didn't work for three years. That's a long 'bad time'. I think Butler is ok, probably as good as Mirf at his best and more consistent. The jury's still out on Clarke, left back and right back for me.
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Post by townatheart on Oct 19, 2008 12:03:21 GMT 1
Yet the honest fact remains - in pretty much every home match so far we look good for 20 mins then mysteriously drop away in performance/ideas/commitment. So who's fault is it - players who simply aren't good enough to play for 90 mins like the first 20 or management for not getting them fit enough or inspired enough to turn it round. Something certainly needs to change somewhere or it will be mid table at best for us this season. Valid observation IMO, would like to hear ST's answer.
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Post by Tez on Oct 19, 2008 12:05:49 GMT 1
Mid-table obscurity beckons. I just hope that it can be turned around and soon, the only thing is that i'm getting tired and fed up of posting the same optimism. Half-glass full dude me (depends what's in the glass though !)
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Post by shawsie on Oct 19, 2008 12:15:40 GMT 1
'inherited a Crumbling relic of a club' Shawsie?? Thats a hell of an exageration isn't it! We finished 10th, just 10 points off a play off place with Gerry Murphy proving that with decent team selections and tactics we were capable of promotion form. This crumbling relic of a club provided him with his own coaching team ( unlike his predicesors), funds to double the wage bill to make it one of the biggest in the division and hundreds of thousands to spend on fees. Hardly the task jacko had when he took over a freshly relegated club coming out of admin and with 8 players on the books is it! I thought Stans usual post match crap about 'expectation levels' was particularly deluded today. " People here expect champagne football with beer money". No Stan, people want champagne football with champagne money. What we're seeing is beer football with champagne money! Why is it an exaggeration slapps? We havent produced a concerted spell of good results when it matters since nov 2005 - 3 years ago and i couldnt tell you when before that!!! The players ST inherited werent and arent good enough - the last few years have proved that when lack of resources meant we had to play them all every week and they finished mid table - furthermore no bugger wants em now which says it all!! Murphy did quite well as manager i grant you, but remember it was the end of the season and we beat mid table sides with nowt to play for. Pity the precious academy isnt producing in the same way because at the moment we dont appear to have one academy product any better than the league we are playing in and that means its a very expensive option for a league 1 team! ST's signings are in my opinion far better than what we had, but i would question the tactics - flynn is our best central midfield player but seems to get moved around willy nilly to accomodate craney (jury still out) and worthy (not good enough). Also, roberts appears to get away with contributing little, whereas other players are jettisoned pronto (jevons) for no reason. I am not defending Ternent per se, but for gods sake give the man some time - we have changed managers regularly in the last 20 years and its got us nowhere. You yourself stated that the club needed a big overhaul when KD was in charge - that overhaul is not just needed in the boardroom but also in the playing squad. Kamara, clarke t, beckett, collins, worthy, jevons, cads to name but 7 need to go and be replaced - unfortunately you cant do it and change things positively overnight!
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Post by anderlechtterrier on Oct 19, 2008 13:49:18 GMT 1
Stan is fifteen years out of date. He doesn't like the academy players, so he brings in his 'proper' men. Brought in 10 odd players, only Roberts better than what we had. Drops player of the year for no apparant reason. He has made a terrible start. Pity he can't adapt to the times like his mate Warnock. Be patient? I just dont think we have the right man, passed his sell by date.... Excellent post.
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Post by kleverboy on Oct 19, 2008 14:15:40 GMT 1
Maybe we're still gelling eh? Fact is Bristol Rovers are a better team than us, play better football and possess better players. Play offs my arse. You can't put it like that, lindleyhitler... dear God, no! Far too brutal, too true and too 'negative' for some folk. You have to have blind faith, man!
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Oct 19, 2008 14:16:49 GMT 1
are you related to ricky tomlinson ?
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 19, 2008 15:47:44 GMT 1
Its an exageration because we were nowhere near being a club in crisis. Yes we've been stuck in mid table for years (which ternent is about to continue btw) but we had the basis of a good team at this level. Last season ,once Page arrived we were a decent team with play-off form. Once Ritchie had gone it improved even further. Hardly a crisis. My idea of an over haul was to get rid of the dross in the squad, ( sinclair,young,etc) which ST duly did, and replace them with 4 or 5 top quality replacements. What STs done is basically brought in a boatload of mid-table league 1 quality players to add to an already mid-table league 1 side so its no surprise we're still going to remain a mid-table league 1 team. Flynn isn't our best central midfielder ,hes sat on the bench, and how you can want rid of worthy completely baffles me it really does. You think all STs signings are ' far better' than what we had??? Well 7 of them started yesterday as they usually do, so how come we don't look any better as a team and are seemingly rooted to a lower mid-table position? If they are that much better they're doing a good job of hiding it.
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Post by rotary on Oct 19, 2008 16:03:08 GMT 1
Stan didnt fancy Page whatever he says. Another mistake not signing him for this season. List is endless.
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Post by shawsie on Oct 19, 2008 17:11:13 GMT 1
Its an exageration because we were nowhere near being a club in crisis. Yes we've been stuck in mid table for years (which ternent is about to continue btw) but we had the basis of a good team at this level. Last season ,once Page arrived we were a decent team with play-off form. Once Ritchie had gone it improved even further. Hardly a crisis. My idea of an over haul was to get rid of the dross in the squad, ( sinclair,young,etc) which ST duly did, and replace them with 4 or 5 top quality replacements. What STs done is basically brought in a boatload of mid-table league 1 quality players to add to an already mid-table league 1 side so its no surprise we're still going to remain a mid-table league 1 team. Flynn isn't our best central midfielder ,hes sat on the bench, and how you can want rid of worthy completely baffles me it really does. You think all STs signings are ' far better' than what we had??? Well 7 of them started yesterday as they usually do, so how come we don't look any better as a team and are seemingly rooted to a lower mid-table position? If they are that much better they're doing a good job of hiding it. If we had the basis of such a good team, then why did it take us until april last season to enter the top half of the table. We were in crisis, because we had an apparently disinterested chairman/owner, a rapidly reducing support base and a group of players who looked passionless and totally lacking leaders! You yourself quoted many times that the club was going nowhere under the old regime. As for wanting rid of worthy and other players - very simple mate, they are not good enough to get us out of this league. No malice or vendetta - infact i fully appreciate worthy's effort but effort alone isnt enough! Expectations have been raised and ST is very simply not delivering to date............but i do think we have a much better team than last year and if we persevere it will get better. The Page thing is a baffler i grant you, but obviously ST didnt consider him his type of player - oh and for all the good things he brought to town last season he isnt pulling trees up at chesterfield right now is he??
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Post by Berry. on Oct 19, 2008 17:43:54 GMT 1
Stan is fifteen years out of date. He doesn't like the academy players, so he brings in his 'proper' men. Brought in 10 odd players, only Roberts better than what we had. Drops player of the year for no apparant reason. He has made a terrible start. Pity he can't adapt to the times like his mate Warnock. Be patient? I just dont think we have the right man, passed his sell by date.... First off.... Flynny is better than any midfeilder we had.... Butler same for def. keigan parker same....... but didnt see why he didnt get a start yesterday.... but who was player of the year? ?
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Post by andyhudd on Oct 19, 2008 17:46:45 GMT 1
Holdsworth.
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 19, 2008 20:26:47 GMT 1
But when Stan came to this club the old regime had been replaced ( or as good as) by Dean Hoyle. Stan didn't arrive in the dark,doom-laden days of davy, he arrived in the overjoyed, positive days of Hoyle. Far from being in crisis, the club had instantly turned 180 degrees and everything was/is looking to a bright future for the first time in god knows how long. On the pitch, the reason why they looked so poor last season until Murphy took over is one word- Ritchie. A good manager can make an average bunch of players look very good. In our case under Ritchie we had a poor manager making an average bunch of players look very bad. And you're wrong about Worthington. Every team needs a player to break down the oppositions play and Worthys as good as anyone at this level and wouldn't look out of place in the division above.He needs a better quality (creativity wise) central midfielder alongside him perhaps than Flynn.
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Post by terrier19 on Oct 20, 2008 1:06:05 GMT 1
I never expect Town to win every match but I do expect them to play a full 90 mins of football plus injury time.This season we have been lucky if they have managed to play for 30 mins. How many times did we play a good 90 minutes last season, or the season before? it's not just a problem that Ternant has had, Ritchie & Jacko had that same problem, i have missed 4 games home & away in 3 season and struggle to remember us ever playing a brilliant 90 minutes and completely hammering a team during that time.
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Post by nseventee on Oct 20, 2008 2:12:17 GMT 1
The answer is, "I don't think so, not yet".
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Post by w415hy on Oct 20, 2008 3:09:08 GMT 1
I cant believe the deluded fools who think the new signings arent better than what we had - just ask yourselves guys if holdsworth, collins, kamara, clarke (t), jevons, beckett were that good surely other managers would have taken them on loan. Ah yes i forgot kamara has gone to grimsby, beckett looks likely to go to chester and noone else has gone anywhere!!!!! It was crap today but for gods sake stop dwelling on it and move on.[/quote]
Andy Holdsworth has asked to go on loan and there have been alot of clubs bidding for him, however, Stan Ternant will not let him go. And quite rightly so i think ST is just trying t give the guy some real hunger, No doubt he will be our most important player this season. The season has is nearly a 1/3rd in weve still got loads of time to get back up the table which im near certain with.
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marshian
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,567
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Post by marshian on Oct 20, 2008 8:53:24 GMT 1
I cant believe the deluded fools who think the new signings arent better than what we had - just ask yourselves guys if holdsworth, collins, kamara, clarke (t), jevons, beckett were that good surely other managers would have taken them on loan. Ah yes i forgot kamara has gone to grimsby, beckett looks likely to go to chester and noone else has gone anywhere!!!!! It was crap today but for gods sake stop dwelling on it and move on. Andy Holdsworth has asked to go on loan and there have been alot of clubs bidding for him, however, Stan Ternant will not let him go. And quite rightly so i think ST is just trying t give the guy some real hunger, No doubt he will be our most important player this season. The season has is nearly a 1/3rd in weve still got loads of time to get back up the table which im near certain with.[/quote] I wish I shared your optimism but there is NO indication that the home form is going to improve - even a good performance (appaently, I missed it) against Leicester did not give us any points. And until the home form is on track we will NOT be climbing that league table.
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Post by Floyds on Oct 20, 2008 9:07:38 GMT 1
well until they start winning games and climbing the table, it seems strange to argue that the signings are "far better" than what we had
being 16th in the league, with 3 wins from 11, and 7 of ST's signings in the team
unless they are far better - in which case - why are they not producing it on the pitch?
someone has to take responsibility for it?
unless it really is all terrible fans fault?
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Post by Captainslapper on Oct 20, 2008 9:59:04 GMT 1
I cant believe the deluded fools who think the new signings arent better than what we had - just ask yourselves guys if holdsworth, collins, kamara, clarke (t), jevons, beckett were that good surely other managers would have taken them on loan. Ah yes i forgot kamara has gone to grimsby, beckett looks likely to go to chester and noone else has gone anywhere!!!!! It was crap today but for gods sake stop dwelling on it and move on. Andy Holdsworth has asked to go on loan and there have been alot of clubs bidding for him, however, Stan Ternant will not let him go. And quite rightly so i think ST is just trying t give the guy some real hunger, No doubt he will be our most important player this season. The season has is nearly a 1/3rd in weve still got loads of time to get back up the table which im near certain with.[/quote] The new signings have improved the competition and squad strength and are better than the dross we dumped in the summer. The question is have they improved last seasons first XI. Some have marginally,some haven't. From what we've seen so far I don't see how anyone can think anything different. For example Butler and Lucketti are both better than Mirfin. But have Butler and Lucketti improved the first team on the Clarke/Page partnership? The stats say no. Until they say yes,how can you argue the new signings are better than what we had?
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Post by LiversedgeFC on Oct 20, 2008 11:18:09 GMT 1
he has no reason to sack him yet gosh u lot are just a bunch of old moaning,winging,wineing N()()Bs
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Post by welshmatt on Oct 20, 2008 11:27:50 GMT 1
I echo quite a few peoples sentiments. I have for a start never been a fan of ST's because he was well known for his long ball tactics at Burnley and yes they did have some sort of success there i.e. staying in the same division and maybe I am deluded (feel free to abuse away) but with some of the players that were signed surely a fast paced attacking game would suit the current batch of players.
I think for most people besides the poor home performances or at best inconsistency, it is the post match comments that anger a lot of people. Yes Bristol Rovers were a better side on the day, but how many times do we have to take the lead in a game and then go and throw it all away or claw it back from 2-0 down to do the same.
This division is for the taking but not with the current tactics! Right back to cloud cuckoo land for me!
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