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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 20:19:31 GMT 1
I don't have to explain anything and neither does he, to my mind the shares were taken as security because he put money in to us when we were on very shaky ground, I can't see a problem with that at all.
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Post by stevvy on Jan 4, 2009 20:23:40 GMT 1
It seems to me you all just personally don't like the guy how can we like the guy?hes a sneaky liar who tries bullsh*tting to get himself out of awkward situations (ie the shares when he got found out n givin utterly pathetic excuses for it which were clearly garbage),has never had any interest in the fans,doesnt have the clubs best interests at heart,and is the 1 person town fans will never ever trust because of the way hes acted
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Post by stevvy on Jan 4, 2009 20:27:40 GMT 1
I don't have to explain anything and neither does he, to my mind the shares were taken as security because he put money in to us when we were on very shaky ground, I can't see a problem with that at all. so its ok to do it secretly,behind everyones back,after saying they wouldnt be transferred,and saying he sees no situation where they'll be transferred back to us,and give utterly pathetic excuses for doing it?
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 20:31:00 GMT 1
FFS The opinions of a few of you on here are not the majority when it comes to Davy. The only thing you can have against the man is this share issue which is by no means cut and dry and so far had cost us nothing. Please give credit to the man for investing in us when he did and please Captain, stop banging on about the other "viable bid" which was only viable until the bidders found out the true extent of the clubs exposure. ie, it wasn't ultimately viable (As i've already told you a number of times I disucussed it with P Haigh at the time and he didn't come across as confident of anything to me). Davy has also continued to invest in us alongside Hoyle since he came in.He's put a damn sight more in than any of the rest of us have (bar Hoyle) and the share issue may well change in the future, you don't have to like the man but this unfounded poisonous view towards him gets us nowhere. Somebody whos worked in the accounts at The Giants said The Stadium Shares would be going nowhere but would be passed down the Davy family (witnesses Mids and Lepoivre) So i can't see The Stadium shares returned and all i can think is that somewhere along the line they're going to be worth something. The Sports Barn is another bone of contention. Storthes Hall is another.. Why should HTFC (or Dean Hoyle) pick up the tab or the majority of the tab for these?
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Post by shawsie on Jan 4, 2009 20:32:31 GMT 1
Bro, I don't think Davys working alongside anyone else but them, Im sure there's always been something in it for him, and why the hell not? I know you talked to Haigh, we all met him for that photo and stuff but the message I got was that he was very happy to step aside because their bid was gonna be really tight to make happen. If you remeber at the time new details about the depth of the debt were coming out almost weekly, and he gave me the distinct impression that they weren't at all sure of success but as you say they'd try their hardest. I just can't understand the animosity towards Davy. You all seem to think he's set himself up for life with what he did with the share thing but as I see it Town have just cost him money so far, and anyway he'll be dead within 20 years? It seems to me you all just personally don't like the guy and have been determined to do down his name at every opportunity. Its bloody boring, give it a rest. Rich - i have argued with people on here in defence of KD in the past, but you are missing some very big points fella. Yes he deserves praise for pulling the club out the cart and despite protestations to the contrary his was the bid accepted by the Administrator because it was the biggest and best for the creditors so it will certainly have cost the man money. What he has done since however by dismissing the shares issue as a protection for the club, and then refusing to be questioned any further on it when the protection is no longer required is embarassing. Furthermore the article which capn is talking about is just nonsense - his "love" for the club has never been seen in investment terms in the last 3/4years and despite assertions that we "wont live beyond our means" we are still losing c£1m pa - hardly top class financial planning when the biggest cost for most clubs i.e. the wage bill for players was halfway up the division is it??!! I would have more respect for the man if he said i moved the shares to protect my investment as its my reward for the risk i took buying the club out of admin - at least that is being upfront about it. Its the cloak and dagger secrecy and spin and bollox we get when he is cross questioned which sticks in the throat and this is made worse with the sentiments of the YS article.
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Post by mids on Jan 4, 2009 20:33:09 GMT 1
Bro, I don't think Davys working alongside anyone else but them, Im sure there's always been something in it for him, and why the hell not? I know you talked to Haigh, we all met him for that photo and stuff but the message I got was that he was very happy to step aside because their bid was gonna be really tight to make happen. If you remeber at the time new details about the depth of the debt were coming out almost weekly, and he gave me the distinct impression that they weren't at all sure of success but as you say they'd try their hardest. I just can't understand the animosity towards Davy. You all seem to think he's set himself up for life with what he did with the share thing but as I see it Town have just cost him money so far, and anyway he'll be dead within 20 years? It seems to me you all just personally don't like the guy and have been determined to do down his name at every opportunity. Its bloody boring, give it a rest. Why the hell should we give it a rest? Just because you choose to believe one side of the story doesn't mean that those of us who don't should shut up. You hoose to believe Ken's side of things based purely on a conversation you had with Paul Haigh. Does none of the subsequent and plentiful evidence make you question your judgement? Ken Davy, as a businessman, for himself, did an extraordinary deal....and of course he's perfectly entitled to do whatever he likes with the shares he pilfered from Huddersfield Town. He's also perfectly entitled to ask what he wants for various deals and to milk HTFC for every penny he can. He's perfectly entitled to tie the various companies withing the stadium complex in knots so as to make it unappealing to unravel....but unravelled it will be it has to be or else HTFC could find itself handcuffed by deals totally beyond the control of the incumbants But in business there's a code of ethics....businessmen abide by them with each other....they shouldn't look to do dirty tricks continually.....let's hope Uncle Ken's scruples return at some point before his inevitable death and his estate passes onto his daughter.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 20:34:28 GMT 1
Well i must say that i would not trust Davy one bit and the share issue regarding the stadium ownership does seem to be a problem for our new owner. That aside we are now on the of hopefully better things under Dean Hoyle and lee clarks management team and i feel satisfied that mr Hoyle will in time sort out any miss doings and until that day lets all back the new regime and put our energies int backing the team all the way to promotion.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 20:34:34 GMT 1
If he'd have stood up and said "look everyone i'm taking Towns shares as collateral to offset my risk" it'd have caused more bother for him than doing it the way he did. I still don't understand why you all think his behaviour is so unreasonable. Its completely normal as far as I can see, he's a businessman not a fan and never said he was.
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Post by stevvy on Jan 4, 2009 20:36:21 GMT 1
so its still ok for him to lie then rich,by saying they wont be transferred,then doing it secretly behind everyones back in the hope he never got found out,and saying he sees no situation where he'll give them back?hmmm,ok,if you trust him and believe him,good luck to ya,most town fans wouldnt trust davy if their life depended on it
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Post by Dell12 on Jan 4, 2009 20:38:21 GMT 1
The fact is if Davy hadn't stepped down when he did we'd of had LESS season ticket holders than when he took over despite being in a higher division! I think that says something about peoples' trust of Davy
Secondly to say that the "share issue which is by no means cut and dry and so far had cost us nothing" is ridicious. It's basically saying you've had money stolen, but havn't needed to spend it yet. The sooner Davy is nothing to do with out club the happier i'll be.
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cas4
Iain Dunn Terrier
Arriba Los Terriers Azulles!!!!!!!
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Post by cas4 on Jan 4, 2009 20:39:10 GMT 1
When the truth finally does come out a lot of fans on here will have a large dollop of egg on their kd loving faces
The sooner he disappears down a sewer of his choosing the better off this club will be
UTT
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 20:41:31 GMT 1
Good grief, we havne't had any money stolen, we've had our shares in the stadium taken is all, a Stadium that has very very rarely if ever turned a profit and is not expected to do so any time soon. Here's an idea, why don't you Davy conspirators knock a leaflet up detailing everything that Davy has done wrong, so everyone can see his true colours and out him for the unscrupulous devil that he is?
Oh ....
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Post by stevvy on Jan 4, 2009 20:43:14 GMT 1
and when the stadium company does make a profit (esp if HD One comes off) then you'll see what an impact this share issue has had if we dont get them back-ken,the giants,the council will make a nice little bit of money,and we'll get f*ck all
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 20:46:28 GMT 1
Well i must say that i would not trust Davy one bit and the share issue regarding the stadium ownership does seem to be a problem for our new owner. That aside we are now on the of hopefully better things under Dean Hoyle and lee clarks management team and i feel satisfied that mr Hoyle will in time sort out any miss doings and until that day lets all back the new regime and put our energies int backing the team all the way to promotion. Amen to that. So if we can help 'on and off the field' we should do. HTAFC having to average 13500 last season must now have risen to something like 15500.. So if we can somehow get to KSDL and Kirklees Council and sort out The heavy burden of The Rental agreement for The Stadium and The Sports Barn then we should do.
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Post by morrisraspass on Jan 4, 2009 20:47:59 GMT 1
Genuine question: How and when will all this share-buying-cloak-and-dagger stuff come out? People sem pretty certain that at some point in the (not too distant?) future it will suddenly emerge that Ken Davy did what a majority on this board believe he did. How will this happen?
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 20:54:40 GMT 1
Good grief, we havne't had any money stolen, we've had our shares in the stadium taken is all, a Stadium that has very very rarely if ever turned a profit and is not expected to do so any time soon. Here's an idea, why don't you Davy conspirators knock a leaflet up detailing everything that Davy has done wrong, so everyone can see his true colours and out him for the unscrupulous devil that he is? Oh .... There you go again Rich ... Stating things that ain't right. The Stadium cost around £30 million to create! We now owe £8 million... It makes £250-£300,000 a year and holds assets of £9 million.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 20:58:34 GMT 1
Good grief, we havne't had any money stolen, we've had our shares in the stadium taken is all, a Stadium that has very very rarely if ever turned a profit and is not expected to do so any time soon. Here's an idea, why don't you Davy conspirators knock a leaflet up detailing everything that Davy has done wrong, so everyone can see his true colours and out him for the unscrupulous devil that he is? Oh .... There you go again Rich ... Stating things that ain't right. The Stadium cost around £30 million to create! We now owe £8 million... It makes £250-£300,000 a year and holds assets of £9 million. How can we owe 8 million on something we dont own?
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 21:01:11 GMT 1
Could you give me a link to where you've got this from bro? reading between the lines, we owe £8million of what we borrowed to build it (this would preumably have sent us bust if Kirklees hadn't agreed to the Davy bid?) I'm amazed it "makes" £250-£300,000 a year, you sure it doesn't turn-over that sum from non sporting functions? and its £9million assets are what? presumably the land it is built on? (worth actually nothing because its ours for the next 100 years or whatever)
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 21:04:55 GMT 1
I actually got it from KSDL accounts 2006
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2009 21:07:41 GMT 1
Maybe you wouldn't find it so boring rich if you actually knew what has gone on here, cos you clearly don't. Fortunately is isn't 'normal' for a new owner to take over a club and remove all its assetts for his personal benefit. We've just been one of the unlucky few its happened to.
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 21:14:30 GMT 1
Genuine question: How and when will all this share-buying-cloak-and-dagger stuff come out? People sem pretty certain that at some point in the (not too distant?) future it will suddenly emerge that Ken Davy did what a majority on this board believe he did. How will this happen? As part of FFA and then HTFFA in the past fighting for answers became a big part of what a few of us were about. The only truth that will ever come out is what Ken Davy allows us to hear. Anything i or anyone else suggest or put out in the public can only be questions that a good businessman will have certain answers for. I put these questions to HTSA to try and get answers too in whatever meetings they have with Roger Armytage or to mull over as they toyed with the idea of funding Storthes Hall with the then £50 odd thousand they had. The Sports Barn Dec 29th 2000 tinyurl.com/9jx3gh''When I inherited the club there was a sum of money, in excess of 1m, which had been put on one side by the club and promised in return for a 100-year lease on the stadium and for three pitches at Leeds Road,'' said Mr. Rubery. [glow=red,2,300]''While we have been looking to progress at Storthes Hall, there are plans afoot to develop at Leeds Road and this is a way of getting the club's money's worth for the £1m we are putting into the kitty.''[/glow] What happened to this money? 2001/02 Sometime in this interim period it is decided to let KSDL take responsibility for The Sports Barn and a £650,000 loan is acquired for the project. 2003 HTAFC go into administration Why didn't this debt disappear with all the other debts at the time? February 2004 Work begins on The Sports barn Nov 2004 tinyurl.com/8phj9z[glow=red,2,300]"A joint venture between KMC and HTAFC ". "The facility will have joint management and occupation similar to the internal structure at The Mcalpine Stadium"[/glow] Why do KMC now own this development and it is thought that we actually pay rent to use it! WHY? 2003-2008 The loan for this development escaped the administration process or was renegotiated after administration because a repayment programme still exists. The new company at HTFC made it the responsibility of The Development Association to include it in their accounts and keep it out of the new company’s accounts. For some reason in 05/06 this was changed and the Academy costs were once again brought into the new company’s accounts but the responsibility of raising the funds were left with The Development Association. 2007 The running of The Academy is estimated by the club to be around £500.000 and The Development Association try to achieve this figure. In the 2007 accounts The Development Association raised £462,000. The shortfall of £38,000 was made public but what supporters weren't aware of was the fact that £95,000 was being paid for The Sports Barn loan. Why are there so many different entities paying different debts? //////////////////////////////////////////////////// These are pertinent questions. This is costing HTAFC valuable finances. This is a scenario that actually happened and with the money involved should be explained.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 21:16:11 GMT 1
Well I've read this board for the last 8 years so I think I'm as informed as the next man, I just think I've clearly a different view to how the world works to some of you, and a better grasp of how perilous our position was pre-Davy. If it were all as rotten as you seem to believe, Hoyle wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole.
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 21:24:56 GMT 1
"Hoyle wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole."
David Taylor did?
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 21:39:11 GMT 1
What would convince me of Davy's evilness was if he was making money out of us and as I see it it's gonna be a long time until he takes more out of HTFC (in real terms, not what people guess things are worth, or might be worth) than he's put in. I've no particular affection for the bloke but I think the way he's been villified on here is bizarre.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 21:40:48 GMT 1
Bro has any of the supporter groups asked Dean Hoyle and this new chief executive Clibbens about these stadium shares,and if so what do they think of the matter. cheers
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grist
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Post by grist on Jan 4, 2009 21:50:15 GMT 1
If you put a little bit of money into a club in order to acquire huge benefits in terms of real estate and potential income and then charge the club whatever interest rate you fancy for the LOAN then you stand to be hugely quids in unless the club enters administration again.
This has got to be one of the most surreptitious and yet unbelievably blatant cases of asset stripping that this country has ever seen if it is possible for that sentence to make sense. Davy ought to receive headlines for his ingenuity and underhandedness rather than his love for the club!
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Post by Dell12 on Jan 4, 2009 22:00:14 GMT 1
Put it another way. Imagine it was your house. Suppose he took away what you owned without telling you after publically stating he wouldn't, but continued to allow you to live in it. Granted you wouldn't notice any difference, however when you came to sell you'd be in for a nasty surprise. Remember Ruberry payed £2m for the share.
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 22:00:59 GMT 1
What would convince me of Davy's evilness was if he was making money out of us and as I see it it's gonna be a long time until he takes more out of HTFC (in real terms, not what people guess things are worth, or might be worth) than he's put in. I've no particular affection for the bloke but I think the way he's been villified on here is bizarre. Simple one for you Rich.. Stadium sharesNot going to move them. Moved them to Huddersfield Sporting Pride Reason = "To protect HTFC from any future financial demands put on by KSDL" HDONE = A partnership between Huddersfield Sporting Pride and KSDL. How does that not sound wrong?
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Post by mids on Jan 4, 2009 22:01:47 GMT 1
Bro has any of the supporter groups asked Dean Hoyle and this new chief executive Clibbens about these stadium shares,and if so what do they think of the matter. cheers Yes. About 3 weeks ago.
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Post by mids on Jan 4, 2009 22:03:27 GMT 1
What would convince me of Davy's evilness was if he was making money out of us and as I see it it's gonna be a long time until he takes more out of HTFC (in real terms, not what people guess things are worth, or might be worth) than he's put in. There's more than one way to skin a cat you know
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