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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 22:07:19 GMT 1
what's wrong about it?
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 22:11:59 GMT 1
Is there no risk about HDONE?
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Post by stevvy on Jan 4, 2009 22:14:29 GMT 1
think about it-HD One comes off n starts making a helluva lot of money.........giants as part of HSP will get a % of that money........as will KSDL.......we get nothing,because we're not part of HSP-so the giants benefit to the tune of £x (as davy wants them to) and town benefit to the tune of nothing (because davy doesnt want us to) his excuse of 'the timing didnt allow it' or whatever bullsh*t he came out with as a reason for the giants being part of HSP but town not,was basically a lie,because it means the giants get to benefit,while town dont-who does he care more about?the giants-who isnt he bothered about?town-who would he rather benefit financially?the giants,because hes a rugby man
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grist
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,578
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Post by grist on Jan 4, 2009 22:15:42 GMT 1
Nowt really except that someone so devious should not go seeking acclaim amongst those he has disinherited. The only way he will ever be regarded as anything other than a pariah to the majority of Town fans is if he returns what the fans once had.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 22:19:26 GMT 1
Less than HTFC presumably? The point is the shares are seperate from the club to protect Davys investment. Why is it so unbelievable to you that Davy would want protection/a return on his investment, it's just the way things are isn't it? we could have ended up with a lot worse than him IMO
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Post by stevvy on Jan 4, 2009 22:22:11 GMT 1
Less than HTFC presumably? The point is the shares are seperate from the club to protect Davys investment. Why is it so unbelievable to you that Davy would want protection/a return on his investment, it's just the way things are isn't it? we could have ended up with a lot worse than him IMO maybe people wouldnt mind so much if he wouldnt have so blatantly lied about it and then transferred them underhandly behind everyones back in the hope no1 would ever find out-sadly,thats what he did,he lied to us all and tried to get away with it by going behind everyones back and hoping to get away with it-wouldnt trust davy if my life depended on it personally,dont know how anyone can trust that liar
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Post by bro600 on Jan 4, 2009 22:37:57 GMT 1
Less than HTFC presumably? The point is the shares are seperate from the club to protect Davys investment. Why is it so unbelievable to you that Davy would want protection/a return on his investment, it's just the way things are isn't it? we could have ended up with a lot worse than him IMO I hope the person who burgled my house and stole my car did it to protect me from any further financial demands. I also hope that if he happened to make a profit in the not too distant future he might just remember where he got them from. I won't hold my breath though and neither should any Town Supporter. I thought Davy was a community minded person?
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 22:43:38 GMT 1
These analogies are terrible, presumably this "person who burgled your house" first of all prevented you from losing your house and going bust? I completely understand why people aren't happy with the share issue but you all ignore the money that he has put in and continues to put into the club.
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Post by shawsie on Jan 4, 2009 23:08:09 GMT 1
But rich - this is the same man who is now interviewed by a paper and purports to be the entire saviour of our club and how he now "loves the club". Why would you lie to the lifeblood of the thing you love (i.e. us the fans) by telling people firstly you wont transfer the shares and then secondly refuse to answer pertinent questions about it?? I agree that KD deserves praise for saving the club initially and that he has a right to do what he wants with his cash but you cant have your cake and eat it .........................it is the underhand and duplicitous manner that all this was done that sticks in the throat. If there is nothing to hide then answer the bloody questions, dont hide behind spin spin and more spin!!!!!
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 4, 2009 23:14:23 GMT 1
As I remember it he simply didn't tell anyone he was doing it, thats a bit different from lieing about it. If I was the chairman I wouldn't tell the fans every financial detail about the club either, why would you? which chairman ever has?
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Post by knockkneedchicken on Jan 4, 2009 23:32:15 GMT 1
How nauseating that article really is. No mention of the fact that he and Watson completely f*cked up with 2 manager appointments. No credit at all to Dean Hoyle for being the one who is 100% responsible for the appointment of the current managerial team. No mention of the fact that 4000 season ticket holders were not turning up to watch the crap that he presided over.
I agree with others that the majority of Town fans are hopelessly apathetic when it comes to off the field matters. Thank God for Mids, Bro and all the rest of the FFA crew who actually cared passionately about what was happening to our club.
Because of this apathy it's not fair to say the majority of fans don't care about the shares. It's like that old advert (Kit Kat I think)............... Of those who expressed an opinion 9 out of 10 said their cats preferred it.
Of those who expressed an opinion on the theft of the 40% of the shares in the stadium, at least 9 out of 10 would like them back.
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Post by stevvy on Jan 4, 2009 23:37:38 GMT 1
As I remember it he simply didn't tell anyone he was doing it, thats a bit different from lieing about it. If I was the chairman I wouldn't tell the fans every financial detail about the club either, why would you? which chairman ever has? im pretty sure he actually specifically said he wouldnt be transferring the shares-if thats the case (i'd imagine mids/bro/LP could confirm either way?) to then do it behind everyones backs after stating he wouldnt transfer them means 1 thing......he lied
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 5, 2009 1:50:05 GMT 1
He publically said on taking over the club, that the makeup of KSDL ( 40% Town, 40% KMC, 20% HRLFC ) would remain the same. He also said at that time that all the doubts hanging over KSDL had been removed by KMC taking on the liability of almost half the debts. Literally days later he secretly changed the makeup of KSDL, transfering Town's 40% over to HRLFC, giving them 60% in total. When this was discovered 15 months later, he claimed it was to 'protect' HTFC from the doubts hanging over KSDL. The doubts hed said had just been removed days before the transfer. We can all make our own minds up whether theres some blatent lies in that lot. This money hes put into the club Rich. Don't you think hes recouped that from selling 70% of the club to Hoyle, with Id imagine a healthy profit on top? Why was some of the money (£400k ) he injected into Town, funnelled through the Giants on the way? "How can the ( loss making) Giants afford to lend Town 400 grand? " someone asked at the meeting. " Because I gave it to them to do it." said a smirking davy. I'd love to know the reason for that when he'd spent the previous 3 years insisting both clubs were completely seperate and the idea of money going from one to the other was 'laughable'. With all the assetts tucked away aswell, he seems to have done rather nicely out of a club' he's grown to love'. I'm not surprised he's grown to love us!! His descendants will be 'loving' us for generations
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Post by iangreaves on Jan 5, 2009 9:43:44 GMT 1
As I remember it he simply didn't tell anyone he was doing it, thats a bit different from lieing about it. If I was the chairman I wouldn't tell the fans every financial detail about the club either, why would you? which chairman ever has? He was publicly quoted in the Examiner saying the ownerships of the stadium would remain as it was before. Members of the Supporters Trust subsequently discovered by poking through accounts that he had secretly removed Town's shares. As I have said many tyimes before on here, the issue is quite simple. How can anyone trust a man who says one thing publicly and does the opposite privately. I suspect there is nothing any of us can do to right Davy's wrong over the shares. My great fear is that because he is a fan Dean Hoyle may have let his heart rule his head because as it stands he will be the owner of a club with no assets.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 5, 2009 10:46:15 GMT 1
Apart from all the players? and the rights to Huddersfield Town as a commercial entity?
This £400K from the giants is another totally erroneous point. Its completely normal for people to move money around through their businesses not least to save on tax but also to escape any personal liability. Its not underhand at all.
I agree he should never have said that the shares would stay with town if he had no intention of them doing so. Maybe he changed his mind? Maybe he'll change his mind on them coming back one day? Either way as owner he can do what he wants, none of it is illegal or particularly unethical unless you presume there are machiavellian reasons for everything he does.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 5, 2009 11:15:40 GMT 1
Neither of us know why he put that money through the Giants. Could have been a tax dodge or something like you say. Maybe it was so Town are repaying a debt to Giants at an interest rate of davy's choosing. Who knows, only davy and his accountant probably. What we do know though is that it completely contradicted his assertion that the 2 clubs were totally seperate and the idea of money moving between the 2 was laughable. And then of course it gave davy the chance he was more than happy to take to tell everyone how, actually its the Giants that are funding Town. I bet you fell for that one aswell. "Good old Uncle Ken, good old Giants"
No ones ever suggested anything hes done is illegal. Your position astounds me to be honest. Your a Town fan and you know hes assett stripped the club for his own benefit,you know he said one thing publically and did the opposite privately, you know he gazumped a better bid initially (better for the club NOT the creditors), you know the state the club was in prior to Hoyle coming in, and how hes left us hammered for all time by large rents for things the club should largely own, yet because he's ENTITLED to do all this then its ok, and we should get off his back with our boring moaning! We've been shafted ,but its alright cos no laws were broken. Like all Davy fans your still clinging to the 'maybe he'll give the shares back' hope. Sorry, but hes said that isn't going to happen. One thing hes ever said that I actually believe.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 5, 2009 11:28:53 GMT 1
I just see it differently i'm afraid. When he starts making loads of money over and above what he's put into us, I might change my opinion.
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Post by johnnyzero on Jan 5, 2009 11:45:26 GMT 1
I just see it differently i'm afraid. When he starts making loads of money over and above what he's put into us, I might change my opinion. Make sure you clear all that sand away when take your head out of it...
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 5, 2009 11:46:10 GMT 1
Hoyles already paid for the club apparently so you should probably have a re-think. Since he took HTFCs 40% of KSDL in 2003, Town will have contributed something in the region of £6-7m to KSDL coffers by my estimation through rent and catering revenue. Not cash in hand but 40% of that for £0 isn't a bad deal. (I know you've just learned KSDL make a healthy profit every year- well this is where most of it comes from) Davy's assetts ( original and removed from HTFC) if not him directly, are already making loads of money from Town and have been from day 1,so Id review my opinion if I was you.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 5, 2009 11:59:45 GMT 1
Can you tell me how much he's put in, in the same period?
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 5, 2009 12:12:23 GMT 1
Who, Davy since Hoyle stepped in? No I can't but you're right he is supposed to still be financing some of club, such was the deal he struck with Hoyle I believe. Taking into account his previous record concerning HTFC he'll very much be expecting to get a big return from the club for his money in the future id imagine. Sadly he'll still hold a 30% stake in the club for the time being
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Post by iangreaves on Jan 5, 2009 12:14:17 GMT 1
Hoyles already paid for the club apparently so you should probably have a re-think. Since he took HTFCs 40% of KSDL in 2003, Town will have contributed something in the region of £6-7m to KSDL coffers by my estimation through rent and catering revenue. Not cash in hand but 40% of that for £0 isn't a bad deal. (I know you've just learned KSDL make a healthy profit every year- well this is where most of it comes from) Davy's assetts ( original and removed from HTFC) if not him directly, are already making loads of money from Town and have been from day 1,so Id review my opinion if I was you. That's why I worry that Dead Hoyle may have let his heart rule his head. Is he locked into a deal whereby he will get shafted annually ad infinitum.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 5, 2009 12:22:50 GMT 1
I doubt any 'head' would tell a businessman like Dean to get involved with Town ,the state we were in back in March/April last year. It had to be mainhly a decision of the heart and thank christ he has Town at his heart, or we really would be on our backside by now!
Im sure it'll be something hes looking into. But its an awfully complicated web of companies and finances that davy has constructed around Town,KSDL,HSP,etc etc etc, so Id guess new surprises keep revealing themselves the deeper he looks into it.
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Post by johnnyzero on Jan 5, 2009 12:29:05 GMT 1
...its an awfully complicated web of companies and finances that davy has constructed around Town,KSDL,HSP,etc etc etc, so Id guess new surprises keep revealing themselves the deeper he looks into it. Is it true that Nigel Clibbens arrived for his first day at work in a JCB? We just need to get Time Team in now to do an electromagnetic survey and tell us where the bodies are buried! ;D
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Post by iangreaves on Jan 5, 2009 13:05:21 GMT 1
Or get Derek Acorah to find the ghosts.
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Post by mids on Jan 6, 2009 0:03:43 GMT 1
we could have ended up with a lot worse than him IMO Would HTFC been worse off if Paul Haigh's bid had been accepted? HTFC certainly wouldn't have been paying a loan back on a stand they don't own. HTFC wouldn't have earned nothing from the catering income. HTFC would still own 40% of a stadium. There's plenty of people who'd have done a worse job....but there's a damned sight more who'd have done a better job for HTFC rather than lining their own pockets.
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Post by mids on Jan 6, 2009 0:05:57 GMT 1
We know Ken removed the shares from HTFC to protect HTFC from any future debts.....
Q) Would those much heralded debts be any larger than the debts HTFC have been, and continue to be, saddled with due to the duplicitous dealings of Ken Davy Esq?
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Davey Monroe
David Wagner Terrier
[M0:0][N4:#@David_Major#]
Posts: 2,863
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Post by Davey Monroe on Jan 6, 2009 0:10:31 GMT 1
Would HTFC been worse off if Paul Haigh's bid had been accepted? HTFC certainly wouldn't have been paying a loan back on a stand they don't own. HTFC wouldn't have earned nothing from the catering income. HTFC would still own 40% of a stadium. There's plenty of people who'd have done a worse job....but there's a damned sight more who'd have done a better job for HTFC rather than lining their own pockets. Just what I was thinking as I read the article! I wonder if the clouds are made from candy-floss in Uncle Ken's little world...?
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Post by timrankhan on Jan 6, 2009 10:52:54 GMT 1
IMO This is a topic that should ALWAYS be posted as it is something that clearly holds the club back finacially. Until Deano came in the club was dying on it arse, crap team, crap management, crap coaching staff, rapidly dwindling support. What KD has done is asset strip, and is in simple terms daylight robbery of 40% of an almost priceless (to HTAFC) asset. I genuinely feel that this should be made public to those outside DATM, as frankly it is criminal and hugely damaging not only for HTAFC but also football and sport!
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Post by mids on Jan 6, 2009 11:07:38 GMT 1
I genuinely feel that this should be made public to those outside DATM, as frankly it is criminal and hugely damaging not only for HTAFC but also football and sport! A national newspaper is looking into it as we speak.
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