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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 20:33:28 GMT 1
love to see boothy playing up front,especially when clark gets the tempo hes looking for,boothy can pass better with his head than dickinson can with his feet The truth is we have been spoiled for years with Booth. Hence people think that every target man must be able to do what Booth does so effortlessly. We will have to find a real gem (or two) to replace him when he finally calls it a day and we may never find anyone who can do what Booth does best. Dickinson was a fine player however. As well as goals and pace he had YOUTH. Given time you never know he may have grown some bigger balls and learnt to jump too. He has only been a pro for two full seasons after all. Hmmm Boothy is a legend but his shooting/passing with his feet has been deplorable for the past 5 years and his main purpose in the side was to clear headers from defensive corners or receive hoofed balls to his head - I can almost gaurantee that Boothy with the ability he currently has at his feet will not fit into Lee Clarks way of playing as he's too slow and no where near clinical enough in front of goal. He's had the supply before and he fluffs more easy chances than he puts away. It says it all really when a "good goalscoring season" for him was the 15 he got when we reached the playoffs - It's just not gonna be enough to get us into the playoffs this season. Harsh but true imo
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Jan 5, 2009 20:44:52 GMT 1
I agree on the shooting front Boothy seems to have lost the plot there, but as an intelligent passer holding it up and bringing other people into the game he's still the best we have IMO. Or at least he was the last time I saw him play!
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Post by thrice on Jan 5, 2009 20:48:35 GMT 1
A fit Booth walks into anyside in this division let alone ours.
Hopefully we will not have too long to wait to see who is proved right.
Even if he was not allowed to use his head he would be in my team. You evidently dont see the great work he does on the deck. 15 goals is a fine return for any striker let alone one that offers so much more. Is it a strange coincidence that them aimless hoof balls always find their way to the legends brow.
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Post by dxterrier on Jan 5, 2009 20:55:48 GMT 1
I honestly believe that it was ternent to blame for the poor performance of Dickinson, if we had him now he would be alot better, he is a quality player Jesus H Christ how many more sticks are some of youlot gonna find to beat Stan Ternent with. He has left, gone, history. Let it lie. We will never know how he would have done given more time, but its time to move forward isn't it??
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Jan 5, 2009 20:57:17 GMT 1
Dicko was quality and we didn't see the best of him
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Post by thomo on Jan 5, 2009 21:25:37 GMT 1
Sorry, don't rate dicko. for many games, having him in the team was like playing with 10 men. His poor work rate wasn't compensated by his goals imho.
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leedsterrier
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Post by leedsterrier on Jan 5, 2009 21:35:56 GMT 1
It makes me laugh that some people expect every player in the team to run through brickwalls. For my money I want my strikers to score goals, I'm not interested if they sprint for 90 minutes, chase every ball and battle with defenders all game - what use are these qualities if they don't score.
Dickinson is not the finished article, he has potential and most importantly he scores - what more do we need? We have plenty of players who can do all the donkey work.
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Post by BradfordTerrier on Jan 5, 2009 21:41:15 GMT 1
totally agree leedsterrier.
lets give everyone 2 options eh,
option 1) lazy looking languid type player 20+ goals.
option 2) workhorse who gives 120% and gets 10+
don't understand the debate. goals are what the game is all about.
End of.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:00:56 GMT 1
Before we got him, i expected someone with pace and power, who could push it past the defender, beat him and smash it in the back of the net. Cheltenham game summed it up for me, he was running at the last defender, basically stopped still with the ball, looked around for some options and got tackled. We saw that a number of times in the home games aswell and when he did try to dribble with it his touch meant he never got very far.
For me it highlights how bad things have got that some considered this guy to be a great town player.
Does anyone know if Town send out the footage of matches seens as they film them all? Surely they would for a small fee. Fancy making a montage of Dickinson just to demonstrate my point as it seems a lot of things have escaped some peoples attention.
Also, his strike rate from open play was 3 in 11 i believe. A true town legend there.
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Post by BradfordTerrier on Jan 5, 2009 22:04:50 GMT 1
lets not count 3 excellent free kicks then. mind, it suits your argument/viewpoint. cant see a post that states he's a town great/legend either. just a good player who some on here didnt rate a ratio of 6 goals in 13 games(sorry, i've included the free kicks)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:07:05 GMT 1
lets not count 3 excellent free kicks then. mind, it suits your argument/viewpoint No, but im just talking about open play which is what all other strikers are judged against. At the end of the day, you think he is god, i think he is shit. End of story...
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Post by BradfordTerrier on Jan 5, 2009 22:11:32 GMT 1
god? cant see where i've said that either. lets not count shearers or fowlers or any strikers free kicks either then. and before you get excited, no i'm not comparing him, but free kicks are a skill and a hell of alot harder to score than a pen and should and are included.
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leedsterrier
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Post by leedsterrier on Jan 5, 2009 22:14:09 GMT 1
I don't think he's "god" as you dramatically put it, but he's a striker who scores goals and with the right coaching could be a quality striker especially if Boothy takes him under his wing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:14:18 GMT 1
A fit Booth walks into anyside in this division let alone ours. There has been no such thing as a fit Booth since 1996. Poor chap has been unable to bend his knees since then. ;D I see the donkey work Boothy does. He chases and hassles and holds the ball up, it's called donkey work and for a reason... It's necessary but these strikers are ten a penny in league 2. 1 in 4 is not that good a return at all for your main striker if you want to get promoted. The majority of sides getting promoted from this division have strikers who bang in 20+ goals. Doncaster been the exception to the rule. My point is that if Boothy was still capable and with the amount of chances he gets he should be getting 25 goals a season and he doesn't. He fluffs the most simple chances in front of goal and it's these CLEAR CUT chances that he misses which shows to me he's not the man to take us up. I highly doubt any other group of supporters hold Boothy anyway near in as high a regard as some supporters do on here. What Boothy does best is: 1. Clear corners 2. Dictate a slower pace of game with his hold up play 3. Causes panic for defences in the box with his aerial prowess causing bits and peices goals. These attributes are not required if: 1. You have a decent defender or two who command in the air. 2. Have a decent central midfielder who dictates play 3. Have creative players who can create clear cut chances. Boothy would completely alter the way we're playing at the moment by slowing down our attacks because of his lack of pace, turning ability and by him not having the vision to play concise early balls and then get into the penalty box to support. It wouldn't suprise me to see us have to resort back to long ball because our attacks break down when we try and attack quickly due to the lack of movement then generated up top. I'm sure when people looka t it logically they will realise Boothy is not suited to how we are playing currently. However, if we were to change and go back to route 1 then he'd fit in fine.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:15:15 GMT 1
Can i ask what you thought of the way he was with the ball at his feet, a little uncomfortable for a good player wouldnt you say? or the way he liked to run/flick it out of play? or the way he continually backed into his man when a high ball was coming his way instead of just challening for it, giving a free kick away and taking massive momentum out of our play?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:16:59 GMT 1
I don't think he's "god" as you dramatically put it, but he's a striker who scores goals and with the right coaching could be a quality striker especially if Boothy takes him under his wing. [/quote Heading isnt really something you can teach. Take peter crouch for example, no matter how much he works on it he still cant do it. You either got it or you aint.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:18:25 GMT 1
Can i ask what you thought of the way he was with the ball at his feet, a little uncomfortable for a good player wouldnt you say? or the way he liked to run/flick it out of play? or the way he continually backed into his man when a high ball was coming his way instead of just challening for it, giving a free kick away and taking massive momentum out of our play? For me, in a word - ungainly. But then again so was Stead, he used to do the most completely random and inexplicable flicks and tricks which still has any supporters of the teams he's played for completely divided on whether he's any good or not.
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leedsterrier
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Post by leedsterrier on Jan 5, 2009 22:21:54 GMT 1
I don't think he's "god" as you dramatically put it, but he's a striker who scores goals and with the right coaching could be a quality striker especially if Boothy takes him under his wing. [/quote Heading isnt really something you can teach. Take peter crouch for example, no matter how much he works on it he still cant do it. You either got it or you aint. You don't have to a be tall battering ram of a striker to be good at heading. You look at the likes of Michael Owen and Tim Cahill - both under 6 foot, but bang enough goals in from headers. The key quality is being able to time the jump properly and that is something I think can be taught.
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Post by BradfordTerrier on Jan 5, 2009 22:22:37 GMT 1
doesnt really matter what i thought or say, you've made your mind up.
but, FWIW,
his touch was sometimes a bit ropey and he did maybe try one or two too many flicks but playing in a team with confidence like we are now and also making a whole host of chances compared to ternents time, he would bag even more than the 6 in 13 he got .
people also seem to forget he had only done one season with stockport and bagged a load.
if you include the 4 in 7 he got for blackpool in a higher division he is indeed a 1 in 2 striker.
you telling me thats not good enough?
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Post by Tez on Jan 5, 2009 22:23:47 GMT 1
Even Cads got up well in the air against Oldham. Look at the size of him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:28:55 GMT 1
I don't think he's "god" as you dramatically put it, but he's a striker who scores goals and with the right coaching could be a quality striker especially if Boothy takes him under his wing. [/quote Heading isnt really something you can teach. Take peter crouch for example, no matter how much he works on it he still cant do it. You either got it or you aint. You don't have to a be tall battering ram of a striker to be good at heading. You look at the likes of Michael Owen and Tim Cahill - both under 6 foot, but bang enough goals in from headers. The key quality is being able to time the jump properly and that is something I think can be taught. Crouch was just an example that heading cant be taught. Those aswell as cads all have a good spring (innate), good timing (innate) and can head it (innate). It very rarely can be taught. As i said, you either got it or you aint. In the same way that if Cads spent a year with pele he still wouldnt be able to finish, he just wasnt born with the ability to do so.
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Post by andyhudd on Jan 5, 2009 22:52:23 GMT 1
Can i ask what you thought of the way he was with the ball at his feet, a little uncomfortable for a good player wouldnt you say? or the way he liked to run/flick it out of play? or the way he continually backed into his man when a high ball was coming his way instead of just challening for it, giving a free kick away and taking massive momentum out of our play? Can I ask you what you thought of the way he scored goals?
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Post by BradfordTerrier on Jan 5, 2009 22:54:38 GMT 1
not free kicks though. they dont count!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2009 22:58:28 GMT 1
Can i ask what you thought of the way he was with the ball at his feet, a little uncomfortable for a good player wouldnt you say? or the way he liked to run/flick it out of play? or the way he continually backed into his man when a high ball was coming his way instead of just challening for it, giving a free kick away and taking massive momentum out of our play? Can I ask you what you thought of the way he scored goals? I thought they just about made up for his other failings. His overhead kick at Milwall was decent, 2 out of the 3 free kicks a decent keeper would have saved. Im struggling to remember the other 2 which probably tells me they were poaches goals which granted is what we are lacking but there are better options out there. Not sure why we are even talking about this because he isnt going to come here now he's in the championship...thankfully.
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Jan 6, 2009 0:54:47 GMT 1
totally agree leedsterrier. lets give everyone 2 options eh, option 1) lazy looking languid type player 20+ goals. option 2) workhorse who gives 120% and gets 10+ don't understand the debate. goals are what the game is all about. End of. Well Lee Clark seems to disagree with you there, every interview he has given he has gone on to talk about the importance of the team ethic and how hard he wants the players to work. I'm not a Dickinson fan, clearly, but I actually think if he worked his socks off he might actually cover up some of his faults.
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Post by SotonTerrier on Jan 7, 2009 13:31:33 GMT 1
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Post by Torquayterrier on Jan 7, 2009 14:05:33 GMT 1
Re article that Topcat posted the link to - I think shortly after he finally went back to Derby Paul Jewell quit as well! They all obviously see his work rate and just give up the will to live.
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midge
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Post by midge on Jan 7, 2009 21:55:28 GMT 1
Dickinson on the bench for Derby tonight against ManU!!!
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Post by martin27 on Jan 7, 2009 22:55:08 GMT 1
so will clough be Dickinsons 9th manager in 7 months?
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Post by WirralTerrier on Jan 8, 2009 7:08:59 GMT 1
Before we got him, i expected someone with pace and power, who could push it past the defender, beat him and smash it in the back of the net. Cheltenham game summed it up for me, he was running at the last defender, basically stopped still with the ball, looked around for some options and got tackled. We saw that a number of times in the home games aswell and when he did try to dribble with it his touch meant he never got very far. For me it highlights how bad things have got that some considered this guy to be a great town player. Does anyone know if Town send out the footage of matches seens as they film them all? Surely they would for a small fee. Fancy making a montage of Dickinson just to demonstrate my point as it seems a lot of things have escaped some peoples attention. Also, his strike rate from open play was 3 in 11 i believe. A true town legend there. Agree with this completely. I defended Dickinson while he was here and never gave him any abuse but felt that while he was here he was a very poor player. How most of you can say he was a great striker is unbelievable. Can nobody remember the amount of times he would be backing in and in and never actually manage to get hold of and pass that thing called a football. All of you are goin on about 1 header he scored, that was a good header but think it was lucky judging by the fact he didn't win another header the whole time he was here. He couldn't run with the ball coz his feet looked like they had been surgically removed and the put back on the wrong way. He was gash! And another thing, he scored 3 freekicks, wow, do you not remember how many he took while he was here, must of easily been over 10. And whenever i watched dickinson warming up before games, he just looked pants, couldnt finish in to an open goal and juts didnt look like he would ever be a top player. I would be sooooo if we were to get him, even if Clark did get the best out of him he would still be cack. There are so many better players than him around.
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