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Post by benhomly on Jan 26, 2009 14:46:00 GMT 1
It doesn't matter though does it - he'll be set up for life with the chance to develop at the top and play at the highest level. If it doesn't work out for him he can then go back down the divisions knowing that he doesn't have to worry about providing for himself and his (future) family for the rest of his days. Like i said he'd be a fool not to do it if the chance came along.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 14:48:37 GMT 1
I mentioned on another thread that Smithies parent's will surely be influencing him more than his agent. At least on a personal, if not financial level.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 26, 2009 14:56:28 GMT 1
I take your point, but I still think he'd be better off with a couple of years first team league experience under his belt. I don't accept the "take what you can now, your leg might fall off next week argument" its just an excuse for greed.
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Post by benhomly on Jan 26, 2009 15:00:23 GMT 1
It's not greed in any shape or form it's called ambition. Take your blue tinted specs off and look at it from an impartial view. If you were offerred another job doing the same thing for shed loads more money what would you do? Football is no different than any other job at the end of the day.
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betsvigi9
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Post by betsvigi9 on Jan 26, 2009 15:02:38 GMT 1
He's mad if he'd rather go to a Prem/Championship club to warm the bench instead of stiking with his home town club at a very exciting time. He'll only be interesting prem clubs because an english reserve keeper is the best way to play the limited foreigner rules (you always need a reserve keeper on the bench but they rarely ever play). That's my view. He's 18 and he's playing regular first team football. He has fantastic potential, but at the moment, that's all it is. At his current stage of development, he wouldn't be that difficult to replace. If he moves to a Premier League club now, he will be third of fourth choice. He will probably be warming the reserve team bench. If he's lucky, then after a while, he might get sent out on loan somewhere for a month or two. I can see no reason, other than for the money, why Smithies would want to leave now. In a couple of years time with 100+ first team games under his belt and a few appearances in the England U21s, some Prem team might just sign him and actually think about playing him in their first team. Apart from money, I can see no good reason for him to be in a hurry to leave us, it just doesn't make any sense. It's a different matter for outfield players, but very few goalkeepers play at the highest level in their teens and early 20's. I would still keep playing him though, because the more first team games he plays the more we would be likely to get for him at a tribunal. I know that ultimately it is Smithies decision, but he is still just a kid and he is paying someone for their advice. It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't more in if for an agent who pursuades his 'hot property' not to sign a new contract and so be a free agent, than if Smithies is sold under contract. If Smithies stayed with us for a couple more years and then moved on to the fringes of the first team of a Premier League club for a decent fee, then he would leave with everyone best wishes. He would be doing the right thing for himself and the club. At the moment it looks like he might be leaving under a large black cloud.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 26, 2009 15:04:06 GMT 1
So you think it would be more ambitious of him to go and be third choice at Spurs or someone instead of winning promotion with us?
We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by benhomly on Jan 26, 2009 15:12:08 GMT 1
I think we will have to agree to disagree.
All i'm saying is i think he'd be daft not to take the money. Look at Nathan Clarke, when he was Smithies age everyone was talking about him being the next Bobby Moore. It never happened for him and now the chance has passed him by. You've got to take it whilst its there IMO or it may never come again.
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betsvigi9
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Post by betsvigi9 on Jan 26, 2009 15:16:57 GMT 1
It's not greed in any shape or form it's called ambition. Take your blue tinted specs off and look at it from an impartial view. If you were offerred another job doing the same thing for shed loads more money what would you do? Football is no different than any other job at the end of the day. The only problem with this argument is that, no-one is saying that if a Premier League club does want to sign him, that he wouldn't be allowed to leave; of course he would. The club would not stand in his way. He could even have a clause written into his contract, giving him the right to speak to any club offering more than a mutually agreed amount. It's just that if he doesn't sign a new contract, then the club will get peanuts, plus probably a 25% sell on clause. Smithies might, or might not get more money as a free agent now, than if he is sold under contract. At the moment, he is still very young and relatively inexperienced and so is hardly likely to be a top earner. He might actually be able to command a lot more in 12 or 18 months time, if he does develop as expected and if he puts in some fantastic eye catching performances for us. I don't think that it is entirely clear cut that he would necessarily be better off going now. The buying club would save oodles of money though.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 26, 2009 15:18:00 GMT 1
I know exactly what you're saying but you need to take into account the fact he's a goalkeeper which for reasons stated above makes it a completely different case to Clarke, who if memory serves had already had a year or two in our first team (which is all I'm realistically expecting of Smithies before he goes)
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 26, 2009 15:24:48 GMT 1
This will win me no friends but... People talking about loyalty should remember it's a two way street. I have been amazed at the way sections of the crowd have so quickly turned on home ground talent. I could understand the frustrations with say Simon Baldry or Dwayne Mattis who had the talent but maybe not the heart Instead I'm talking about players 100% committed players like Nathan Clarke, Worthy, Holdsworth and Mirfin. All four previous players of the season who in the first two cases have been booed (reading in some posts you'd think Worthy could no longer pass the ball 10 yards now ), in Holdsworth case there are threads yesterday saying he isn't good enough (expect a Worthington esk fall from grace there then) and poor Mirf went from Player of the year to "lucky to stay in League One" in the space of 10 months! Other examples of players who have gone from the best thing since sliced bread to hopeless cases include Collins, Skarz, Tom Clarke and Ahmed! I'm not saying they have Smithies talent, but the support and patience showed by some fans to those would make me think twice if I were Smithies. To be honest if Smithies left good luck to him, nice to see a home lad done good etc and at least Town profitted (unlike with fellow Huddersfield boys Cameron Jerome and Frazer Campbell!) Personally I think Stead got it right and moved at the right time before tarnishing his halo but I could understand why Smithies would leave now if the money was right. There's certainly a precedence of some fans getting "bored" of players and turning on them when (as happens with all young players) they go through a dip in form
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Post by TerrierArmy on Jan 26, 2009 15:29:41 GMT 1
I dont understand why Smithies doesn't sign a new two and half year deal with nice pay rise and clauses written into it saying he's allowed to speak to Premiership clubs if £x was offered and have different £x values for League one/championship and additional England caps.
Therefore we get a nice transfer fee and he'll get his move when he is ready for it. A win win scenario.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 26, 2009 15:31:00 GMT 1
I think this case is a little bit different, he's hardly had time to build up any support from the fans we've only just got a proper look at him, and he might be off.
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iangreaves
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Post by iangreaves on Jan 26, 2009 16:59:14 GMT 1
Judging by some people's descriptions of his performance on Saturday it may well be that all the sweet talk from the likes of Chelski has turned his head and affected his game. To quote an ex Town player he may not be "mentally attuned" to play in the first team if his mind is on other things. Could be Glennon's chance.
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Post by Polish Hippy on Jan 26, 2009 19:18:21 GMT 1
I will agree that his agent is trying to milk us. People like him are what is so wrong about agents and are just parasites the milk their clients and the clubs.
However surely Smithies has a mind of his own so there has to be some kind of blame attached to him as well.
If he does leave and it goes to tribunal then at least one thing is for certain - neither Alex nor his blood sucker scumbag of an agent will see one penny of the fee heading to their pocket.
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Post by w415hy on Jan 26, 2009 19:40:40 GMT 1
I do think the treatment towards Smithies has been slightly harsh, When was the last time apart from Jon Stead have we had higher clubs look at our players, it justs shows how far we have come in such a short space of time under the crude management of turnip. I do personally believe Smithies should give us 2 or 3 years to see how far we can go, reading his comments in the yorkshire evening post it did seem he wanted to go to the top with town. After all he is an england u19 international, and i am sure he will be looking at Joe Hart previously of shrewsbury and look at him now.
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Post by jimharrogate on Jan 26, 2009 19:53:29 GMT 1
I think its a bit of brinkmanship after all the agents cut will reduce via a tribunal say 10% of 200K versus 10% of say a million.
Or the agent will take a chunk of a large signing on fee in the Summer.
We maybe ought to think about cutting the Academy down to what we can afford as a third division club and put the money to better use. We only seem to unearth a gem every 10 years or so and when we have to give them away is it worth it???
I'm not considering Smithies as a gem yet and he has a lot to learn and is very inexperienced but I think he will make the grade.
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Post by w415hy on Jan 26, 2009 20:02:34 GMT 1
I wouldn't say cutting down the academy down would be an ideal scenario, all great clubs have a great academy, they take years to progress, say we get into the top flight in 5 years team, a couple of years later, we will be attracting better youth players, therefore have a higher standard of scouts and players breaking into the first team. You have to remember that good young players will have trials with a whole host of clubs up and down the country for example say "Billy" has a trial with town, but also has trials with man utd, chelsea, plymouth and sheff utd and all clubs interested in signing him on a scholarship, what club would you choose to ply your trade? Give it a few years these young players will be choosing town.
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Post by ctt on Jan 26, 2009 20:06:51 GMT 1
I will agree that his agent is trying to milk us. People like him are what is so wrong about agents and are just parasites the milk their clients and the clubs. However surely Smithies has a mind of his own so there has to be some kind of blame attached to him as well. If he does leave and it goes to tribunal then at least one thing is for certain - neither Alex nor his blood sucker scumbag of an agent will see one penny of the fee heading to their pocket. I'm sure the (probably) sizeable signing on fee the club he's going to will give him will compensate for that...
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Post by alecjackson6 on Jan 26, 2009 20:58:02 GMT 1
My understanding was that Huddersfield Town did not deal with agents. At least, this was true in Jacko's day. Has all that changed now? If it has then it is a change for the worse.
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Post by andyfcuk85 on Jan 26, 2009 21:13:22 GMT 1
My understanding was that Huddersfield Town did not deal with agents. At least, this was true in Jacko's day. Has all that changed now? If it has then it is a change for the worse. yes it has changed!!! i believe either clibbens or hoyle confirmed this in one of the meetings
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iangreaves
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Post by iangreaves on Jan 27, 2009 9:21:36 GMT 1
If he does leave and it goes to tribunal then at least one thing is for certain - neither Alex nor his blood sucker scumbag of an agent will see one penny of the fee heading to their pocket. Think you may be wrong there, unfortunately. Heard the odious Mel Stein on the radio the other day talking about how the FA was relaxing the rules on agents so that they could act for both the player and the club buying him. The agent gets a wad from the buying club as well as a share of Smithies' money. Stein couldn't understand why that was wrong. Well, he wouldn't would he.
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mallyb
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Post by mallyb on Jan 27, 2009 11:12:28 GMT 1
It doesn't matter though does it - he'll be set up for life with the chance to develop at the top and play at the highest level. If it doesn't work out for him he can then go back down the divisions knowing that he doesn't have to worry about providing for himself and his (future) family for the rest of his days. Like i said he'd be a fool not to do it if the chance came along. I don't mind whether he stays or goes but if he leaves he owes us more than a tribunal. A few points: If he goes do you really think he will be signing for 10's of thousands a week? If not (and he won't) then he won't be set for life. He has been offered as much money as he has asked for here and will probably get little more as 4th or 5th choice in the Prem . Opportunity to develop as 4th or 5th choice at a bigger club are less than here. Clark has already said that normal reserve games are rubbish for improving match sharpness, there is no prep for Smithies like playing first team football. Goalies have long carriers and don't normally break through until mid 20's. When people say he is an average keeper they are right, he is average. When he's 26, or 30 he may be outstanding and if he is Englands No 1 then excellant. He is not average for his age, he is exceptional for his age, but for keepers generally to be average at 18 is impressive. If he signs a contract and a club offers millions for him then he is definately part of their plans for the future, if he doesn't and leaves for a paltry tribunal fee then he will probably be one of 20 kids they sign this summer in the hope that 2 or 3 come good. If his agant is looking after his best interest where will that agent have left him if Smithies breaks his arm tonight? I think Smithies owes us a contract extension, a clause could be in there to allow him to talk to any club from the premiership. He would then only be approached by clubs willing to spend some money on him rather than clubs without an academy looking to get players on the cheap hoping one or two of the many they sign come off. If he leaves in a tribunal then he will be on my list with Trevor Cherry of least favourite local products that show no loyalty and are completely mercenary. If Cherry et al had stayed I don't believe this club would have ever seen the 4th division. To liken football to another job is laughable. There is no industry in the world where Smithies would be offered the sort of money he is being offered now by us at 18. And where if he doesn't perform he can't be sacked. And where if having signed 4 year contract will get all that money even if his career is over through injury tonight. And where he will be retrained to do anything he wants at no cost to him. Smithies can achieve what he wants here and be well paid for it with more loyalty and patience from the club and fans than he will get elsewhere.
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