Glad we're not Man Utd

[Deleted]

Just watched a bit of the "highlights" from the Carling Cup Final. Although you can't take too much from TV highlights, I've seen their players show more emotion after winning a crucial league game than winning this cup final...

And that's when it was predominantly their fringe players...

They have the media (particularly ITV) so much in their back pocket, I hope they both disappear up their own a**e...

Sorry Antich, i know your view may differ, but I think they are part of a handful of clubs that are slowly killing the game...

[Dell12]

I disagree actually, although I do detest Man Utd. United are though one of the few clubs who've actually made their own way to the top. They've had no massive investment from Russian billionaires! I'd agree though to an extent in that some of their player's attitudes stink!

[TomTheTerrier]

Hearing 'United Roads' as they got the trophy almost made me vomit.

Seriously, they MUST hate that song?

[garyroberts'leftfoot]

Only Chelsea have had a massive investment, Arsenal and Liverpool have not.

Although I detest Man Utd last year they won the league and CL and this year are favorites for the league, CL and fa cup. You can't expect the players to get that excited over the league cup which they would have been expecting to win anyway.

What I dislike is that there are thousands of man utd 'fans' celebrating around the country who do not and some who have never been to games. How you can follow a football club and not go to watch them at all is beyond me (excluding those who live in different counties/ have a leitimate reason).

[far]

if you go to old trafford all you see is tourists taking photo's they are killing the game in fact i think the whole premiership is killing the game ........... give me lower league footie anyday

[Deleted]

They're a global corporate machine Dell, not a football club... and I imagine their scouting machine will do all they can to make sure they stay there.

I hazard a guess that with talk of the "quintuple", the Glaziers will be eagerly watching the share price rise a couple of notches tomorrow...

Sick to the back teeth of Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal. I once thought Fergie was a great manager, but when you realise that virtually all the major honours for the past 12-13 seasons have been shared between these 4 clubs it puts it into context. The top division was relatively competitive up until the late 80's, early 90's. Perm 1 from 4 nowadays. What sort of a "competition" is that?

[Dell12]

I quite agree blimyocrisis!

I think the Premiership would benefit from the creation of a 'European Superleague' thus getting rid of the so called big 4, allowing the rest of them fight it out for the title. It would make it much more interesting. If you bought a season ticket for Middlesborough for example your buying in to mid table mediocraty for another season, I can see why crowds are falling.

[philincalifornia]

Villa are sneaking in there, and Everton have been close for a while now. It seems like the Russian dude is not ready to "buy" another League title, whereas the oil sheiks might be.

If Citee can do something next season, it might at least bring it up to a top seven or eight.

If Newcastle weren't such a bunch of underachievers, they could actually add to the competition too.

Funny thing is, after hating Arsenal all my life, I'm now feeling sorry for them after they've played such good stuff over the past five years, but now can't seem to get the points when it counts.

........... oh yeah, I know a League One Club like that too, although we've only been playing good stuff for the past five games !!!!!!

[wonderousworthy]

Mar 2, 2009 1:53:06 GMT 1 garyroberts'leftfoot said:

Only Chelsea have had a massive investment, Arsenal and Liverpool have not.

Although I detest Man Utd last year they won the league and CL and this year are favorites for the league, CL and fa cup. You can't expect the players to get that excited over the league cup which they would have been expecting to win anyway.

What I dislike is that there are thousands of man utd 'fans' celebrating around the country who do not and some who have never been to games. How you can follow a football club and not go to watch them at all is beyond me (excluding those who live in different counties/ have a leitimate reason).

Arsenal have had little investment. I believe that there transfer record singing is Arseshavings before than it was 11 million which is weird for a club constatnly in the champions leage (until now i hope )

[Solihull Terrier]

Mar 2, 2009 1:39:44 GMT 1 Dell12 said:

I disagree actually, although I do detest Man Utd. United are though one of the few clubs who've actually made their own way to the top. They've had no massive investment from Russian billionaires! I'd agree though to an extent in that some of their player's attitudes stink!

I hope you're joking. Have you not noticed that Man Utd have been able to spend £20m+ in each of the last 10 seasons? Such consistent year in year out investment is why they are so far ahead of everyone else. Money, pure and simple. No one else over that period of time can even come close in terms of investment and how much money has been pumped into the team. Not even Chelsea.

[flip09]

All i can say is that Man Utd have totally different expectations to 99% of the clubs in this country. No offence to Spurs but it was more relief than joy when they won yesterday. If they do only end up with The Carling Cup this season then it will be a disappointment, that would be a massive success for all but United and Chelsea.

Thing is with United, they have the best squad they've ever had. Only 3 years ago it was the only trophy they won, but for players like Vidic and Evra it introduced them to winning things. The same will now happen for the likes of Foster, Evans, Welbeck and Gibson. Do ya think they would have played in an FA Cup or Champions League final?

[philex]

Funnily enough I could stomach Town winning the Champions leage, Premiership, Carling Cup, Charity shield, FA Cup, making £60m profits, spending £20/£30m on players if it meant them being watched by crowds of 70,000 even if it meant 50,000 of them were tourists!

[malvernterrier]

Mar 2, 2009 11:38:05 GMT 1 philex said:

Funnily enough I could stomach Town winning the Champions leage, Premiership, Carling Cup, Charity shield, FA Cup, making £60m profits, spending £20/£30m on players if it meant them being watched by crowds of 70,000 even if it meant 50,000 of them were tourists!

I couldnt! I would HATE for Town to do that.....and Im deadly serious! Give me five years at Championship level, building all the while, then lets be the only Prem team who are self sufficiant (Keep buying the cards....I was in Blackpool Friday/Satnight/Sunday and the Card factory the was very, very busy)

[philex]

You would hate Town to win all the honours going?! Also Man U are self sufficient, their profits are enough to service the debt that the Glazers saddled them with as well as continuing to invest in the team and the club!

[flip09]

Dont think anyone would say no to winning things but with the money nowadays it just isnt gonna happen. Would people swap winning games week in week out in the Championship, for strugglin for Premier League survival?? Charlton sustained it for a bit, look at em now. Same with Wimbledon/MK Dons, they went all the way down!

The example to follow is of Wigan and Bolton, both are sustaining top league status and both been in a league cup final recently. No one can say that Huddersfield arent as big a club as Wigan!

[Dell12]

Mar 2, 2009 11:09:00 GMT 1 Solihull Terrier said:

Mar 2, 2009 1:39:44 GMT 1 Dell12 said:

I disagree actually, although I do detest Man Utd. United are though one of the few clubs who've actually made their own way to the top. They've had no massive investment from Russian billionaires! I'd agree though to an extent in that some of their player's attitudes stink!

I hope you're joking. Have you not noticed that Man Utd have been able to spend £20m+ in each of the last 10 seasons? Such consistent year in year out investment is why they are so far ahead of everyone else. Money, pure and simple. No one else over that period of time can even come close in terms of investment and how much money has been pumped into the team. Not even Chelsea.

I'm not saying they havn't spent money, of course they have, but the money spent is their own money, made through merchandising, crowds and tv etc.... The Glazers havn't spent a penny.

[malvernterrier]

Mar 2, 2009 12:14:39 GMT 1 philex said:

You would hate Town to win all the honours going?! Also Man U are self sufficient, their profits are enough to service the debt that the Glazers saddled them with as well as continuing to invest in the team and the club!

Man utd pay over 600 MILLION POUNDS A YEAR in interest to banks.......they are OWNED by Americans and are a PLC ......ONE BAD SEASON would put them in dire straights and if , for any reason, Sky TV got into strife they would fold in 1 year (in my opinion) They are reported to be about to offer the diving Portugese £200,000 a WEEK, while clubs like Halifax, Darlington and Scarborough are gone or about to go.......The programme sales from a home game would have saved the two Yorkshire clubs at a stroke......I would HATE to be like Man utd.

Sorry....of course a typo.....interest is 60 million a year....they are actually in DEBT of 600 million PLUS!!!!!

[betsvigi9]

Mar 2, 2009 11:38:05 GMT 1 philex said:

Funnily enough I could stomach Town winning the Champions leage, Premiership, Carling Cup, Charity shield, FA Cup, making £60m profits, spending £20/£30m on players if it meant them being watched by crowds of 70,000 even if it meant 50,000 of them were tourists!

Funnily enough, the way in which football is structured at the moment means that it will never, ever happen. The top of the premier league is just a bore fest. I didn't even know who won the game yesterday until this morning. To be honest I was that disinterested, I didn't even know it was on. I no longer read the sports pages of national newspapers because they are so desperately dull. I love football, but not the premier league big greed clubs, because it's not a sport anymore, it's just a business and supporters are just units of income.

[philex]

Mar 2, 2009 12:46:31 GMT 1 @malvernterrier said:

Man utd pay over 600 MILLION POUNDS A YEAR in interest to banks.......they are OWNED by Americans and are a PLC ......ONE BAD SEASON would put them in dire straights and if , for any reason, Sky TV got into strife they would fold in 1 year (in my opinion) They are reported to be about to offer the diving Portugese £200,000 a WEEK, while clubs like Halifax, Darlington and Scarborough are gone or about to go.......The programme sales from a home game would have saved the two Yorkshire clubs at a stroke......I would HATE to be like Man utd.

Sorry....of course a typo.....interest is 60 million a year....they are actually in DEBT of 600 million PLUS!!!!!

I've no doubt they pay that amount, for a club like Man U that level of debt and interest can easily be serviced. Also, the sky income is just one slice of their income when you consider sponsorship, finance company income (MUFC credit cards etc), Asian interest and champions league income.

The loss of sky would be a blow, but would not kill them. It would be clubs like Blackburn, Wigan, Bolton, Fulham that would go to the wall.

[DuncanShearer]

I can understand your point of view Malvern and you are accurate in what you say.
I'm not sure their level of debt can be used as a means to justify any dislike for the club that is Man United though. The facts of the matter are that United would not be in such debt if it wasnt for the Glazer's taking out enormous bank loans in order to buy out all the shareholders, thus making it a privately owned club again. That's why there was uproar amongst the genuine United support who were seeing the CLUB they love bought and sold to the highest bidder with little consideration for the potential negative impacts of the transaction , or history of the club. A sound business model completely re-structured in a few pen strokes.

From a purely football perspective and considering only the traditional top four I would much rather see United win the League year in year out than....
A) Liverpool - boring football, minimal English content.
B) Chelsea - Plastic, bankroled, and London club.
C) Arsenal - London club, minimal English content.

It is, as has been said though no longer about football at the top level. More about money making. Success on the pitch is just a means to an end that us lower league supporters can only dream about.
I would like to see Villa win the league next year. Not because I like them particularly - just because if United win it again it will be 4 in a row and we can't have that now can we.

[malvernterrier]

Mar 2, 2009 13:42:57 GMT 1 DuncanShearer said:

I can understand your point of view Malvern and you are accurate in what you say.
I'm not sure their level of debt can be used as a means to justify any dislike for the club that is Man United though. The facts of the matter are that United would not be in such debt if it wasnt for the Glazer's taking out enormous bank loans in order to buy out all the shareholders, thus making it a privately owned club again. That's why there was uproar amongst the genuine United support who were seeing the CLUB they love bought and sold to the highest bidder with little consideration for the potential negative impacts of the transaction , or history of the club. A sound business model completely re-structured in a few pen strokes.

From a purely football perspective and considering only the traditional top four I would much rather see United win the League year in year out than....
A) Liverpool - boring football, minimal English content.
B) Chelsea - Plastic, bankroled, and London club.
C) Arsenal - London club, minimal English content.

It is, as has been said though no longer about football at the top level. More about money making. Success on the pitch is just a means to an end that us lower league supporters can only dream about.
I would like to see Villa win the league next year. Not because I like them particularly - just because if United win it again it will be 4 in a row and we can't have that now can we.

Good post there . I didnt say I hated man u....I said I would hate to be a fan of theirs (or at least thats what I meant.) ;D ;D
The man u fans down here are a real pain, and when I explained to them why I dont want utd to win four in a row they were flabergasted to know that we have won it 3 times in the first place. One even said to me, ''well at least we are both from Lancashire'', to which I replied ''I dont want to EVER speak to you again so go away and look at a map you idiot!'' He walked away muttering ''Hes mad!'' Says it all really!

[jimmyjazzjazz]

Mar 2, 2009 13:42:57 GMT 1 DuncanShearer said:

I would like to see Villa win the league next year. Not because I like them particularly - just because if United win it again it will be 4 in a row and we can't have that now can we.

Supporting anyone but Man U next season for that reason alone,
and is my only interest in the top of the PL.

Thats why I really hated Chelsea a couple of years back. No way do that club deserve to join the thrice in a row champions list.

[DuncanShearer]

Wasnt aiming it directly at you Malv - just some observations thats all.
You are bang on about the post Euro 96 facepainted uberfan.

I don't mind Man United for the football they play. I wouldnt say I support them though - I can't imagine what it must be like to "support" a club without having genuine affection for it born out of local pride etc. I just doesnt make any sense does it. Whenever I go abroad the Town beach towel comes out - I just love broadcasting who I follow.

It's always fun hearing the ignorant mutterings of the typical big club supporter though - minimal football knowledge served with lashings of we won this and we won that, we are mahooooosive, and I deserve your praise because I made such a hard decision choosing to follow this super successful club, it really is a bind.
Yes we know you are huge but do you really feel part of it?? I don't really see how they can.

[Deleted]

Mar 2, 2009 13:53:41 GMT 1 @malvernterrier said:

Mar 2, 2009 13:42:57 GMT 1 DuncanShearer said:

The man u fans down here are a real pain, and when I explained to them why I dont want utd to win four in a row they were flabergasted to know that we have won it 3 times in the first place. One even said to me, ''well at least we are both from Lancashire'', to which I replied ''I dont want to EVER speak to you again so go away and look at a map you idiot!'' He walked away muttering ''Hes mad!'' Says it all really!

Superb - the bubble theory is well & truly proven...

hahahahaha

[pozza]

Mar 2, 2009 11:09:00 GMT 1 Solihull Terrier said:

Mar 2, 2009 1:39:44 GMT 1 Dell12 said:

I disagree actually, although I do detest Man Utd. United are though one of the few clubs who've actually made their own way to the top. They've had no massive investment from Russian billionaires! I'd agree though to an extent in that some of their player's attitudes stink!

I hope you're joking. Have you not noticed that Man Utd have been able to spend £20m+ in each of the last 10 seasons? Such consistent year in year out investment is why they are so far ahead of everyone else. Money, pure and simple. No one else over that period of time can even come close in terms of investment and how much money has been pumped into the team. Not even Chelsea.

Yeah but how have Man Utd made all this money that they've been able to spend.

Go back to the mid 90's when thet became succesful again, and look at the players. Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, G. Neville, Butt, Sharpe, P. Neville. All home grown players that had mainly come throught the ranks.

Maybe of the last couple of years they have spent big money buying players, but this money hasn't just come from a Russian Millionaire, its come from money they have earnt by becoming successful.

[BradfordTerrier]

Mar 2, 2009 14:32:53 GMT 1 pozza said:

Mar 2, 2009 11:09:00 GMT 1 Solihull Terrier said:

I hope you're joking. Have you not noticed that Man Utd have been able to spend £20m+ in each of the last 10 seasons? Such consistent year in year out investment is why they are so far ahead of everyone else. Money, pure and simple. No one else over that period of time can even come close in terms of investment and how much money has been pumped into the team. Not even Chelsea.

Yeah but how have Man Utd made all this money that they've been able to spend.

Go back to the mid 90's when thet became succesful again, and look at the players. Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, G. Neville, Butt, Sharpe, P. Neville. All home grown players that had mainly come throught the ranks.

Maybe of the last couple of years they have spent big money buying players, but this money hasn't just come from a Russian Millionaire, its come from money they have earnt by becoming successful.

Spot on. Add Wes Brown, Campbell(loan at Spurs) Fletcher, Evans, Welbeck, Gibson etc from the current crop aswell and you see they have a proven track record of bringing through their own who are all quality. They have earned the right to spend big by earnin it, not just been given it. Nearly all Arsenals young players are imported.

[cojones]

Mar 2, 2009 11:09:00 GMT 1 Solihull Terrier said:

Mar 2, 2009 1:39:44 GMT 1 Dell12 said:

I disagree actually, although I do detest Man Utd. United are though one of the few clubs who've actually made their own way to the top. They've had no massive investment from Russian billionaires! I'd agree though to an extent in that some of their player's attitudes stink!

I hope you're joking. Have you not noticed that Man Utd have been able to spend £20m+ in each of the last 10 seasons? Such consistent year in year out investment is why they are so far ahead of everyone else. Money, pure and simple. No one else over that period of time can even come close in terms of investment and how much money has been pumped into the team. Not even Chelsea.

Having 25,000 people in the gound every other week over and above everyone else and the merchandising from that is bound to show in the results. Moeny buys successs = simple. For the record I hate them too...........

[Solihull Terrier]

Mar 2, 2009 14:32:53 GMT 1 pozza said:

Mar 2, 2009 11:09:00 GMT 1 Solihull Terrier said:

I hope you're joking. Have you not noticed that Man Utd have been able to spend £20m+ in each of the last 10 seasons? Such consistent year in year out investment is why they are so far ahead of everyone else. Money, pure and simple. No one else over that period of time can even come close in terms of investment and how much money has been pumped into the team. Not even Chelsea.

Yeah but how have Man Utd made all this money that they've been able to spend.

Go back to the mid 90's when thet became succesful again, and look at the players. Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, G. Neville, Butt, Sharpe, P. Neville. All home grown players that had mainly come throught the ranks.

Maybe of the last couple of years they have spent big money buying players, but this money hasn't just come from a Russian Millionaire, its come from money they have earnt by becoming successful.

Sure they (commendably) produced some good young players but these were always alongside expensive acquisitions such as Van Nistelrooy, even Keane who was a British record signing at the time. It's just naive to say they aren't where they are because of money.

They have an excellent marketing and money making machine which allowed them to always buy the best British players. Which in turn made more success more likely and further expensive players were added as aresult of the funds gained from this success. The young players arguably wouldn't have been produced had they not had the money to invest heavily in a state of the art academy and training facility either.

They are where they are because they are head and shoulders the biggest spender of transfer fees over the last 10, dare I even say 20+ years.

To criticise a team like Chelsea for trying to spend money and catch up in a short time with the money Man Utd have always spent seems a bit unfair. Without someone else coming in to re-address the funding gap between the Man Utd and the rest (ie Abramovic) the Premier League would even more dull and predictable than it is now.

[Solihull Terrier]

Mar 2, 2009 14:37:14 GMT 1 BradfordTerrier said:

Mar 2, 2009 14:32:53 GMT 1 pozza said:

Yeah but how have Man Utd made all this money that they've been able to spend.

Go back to the mid 90's when thet became succesful again, and look at the players. Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, G. Neville, Butt, Sharpe, P. Neville. All home grown players that had mainly come throught the ranks.

Maybe of the last couple of years they have spent big money buying players, but this money hasn't just come from a Russian Millionaire, its come from money they have earnt by becoming successful.

Spot on. Add Wes Brown, Campbell(loan at Spurs) Fletcher, Evans, Welbeck, Gibson etc from the current crop aswell and you see they have a proven track record of bringing through their own who are all quality. They have earned the right to spend big by earnin it, not just been given it.

How have they earnt it? They've always spent big, not just in the last 5+ years. It was the relentless buying of the best players that gained them their initial seniority in the early 90's. Had they earnt it then?

Clearly everyone disagrees with me but I fail to see the difference between for arguments sake spending £60m in one year to try and win the league or spending £120m in 6 years. Yet in England we criticise Chelsea who spent less money than Man U to try and "buy" the title.

I don't see how Man Utd's financial dominance will end either. Liverpool are going to be financially hamstrung going forward, Chelsea's days of big spending are over and Arsenal seem reluctant to spend big. Maybe Villa offer a ray of light? Sad as it is the only way to get a "competitive" league is for a club to get a big benefactor so they can compete with Man Utd and the rest.

*steps down from soapbox*

[malvernterrier]

Mar 2, 2009 14:46:28 GMT 1 Solihull Terrier said:

Mar 2, 2009 14:32:53 GMT 1 pozza said:

Yeah but how have Man Utd made all this money that they've been able to spend.

Go back to the mid 90's when thet became succesful again, and look at the players. Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, G. Neville, Butt, Sharpe, P. Neville. All home grown players that had mainly come throught the ranks.

Maybe of the last couple of years they have spent big money buying players, but this money hasn't just come from a Russian Millionaire, its come from money they have earnt by becoming successful.

Sure they (commendably) produced some good young players but these were always alongside expensive acquisitions such as Van Nistelrooy, even Keane who was a British record signing at the time. It's just naive to say they aren't where they are because of money.

They have an excellent marketing and money making machine which allowed them to always buy the best British players. Which in turn made more success more likely and further expensive players were added as aresult of the funds gained from this success. The young players arguably wouldn't have been produced had they not had the money to invest heavily in a state of the art academy and training facility either.

They are where they are because they are head and shoulders the biggest spender of transfer fees over the last 10, dare I even say 20+ years.

To criticise a team like Chelsea for trying to spend money and catch up in a short time with the money Man Utd have always spent seems a bit unfair. Without someone else coming in to re-address the funding gap between the Man Utd and the rest (ie Abramovic) the Premier League would even more dull and predictable than it is now.

It irretates me when people knock Chelsea and more recently Man City for the big fees paid. I would say that Man Utd began all the stupid fees with the likes of Rio (£30M) Veron (£27M) Rooney (£27M) Van Nist (£19M) and Carrick (£18M).....and loads of others I dont remember the fees for....Tevez, van der sar,Anderson etc etc......to imply that their team is full of home spun players is a bit misleading to say the least. Its also obvious that they will pick up the prime youngsters with the promise of enormous salaries too.....so dont come the 'homely club'' rubbish.