Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2009 12:55:22 GMT 1
and another thing . . . .. . . . . deano said that he wanted to wait to pick the right man. he picked clark based on his enthusiasm contacts and knowledge of football. clark stated when he arrived at town i had a fantastic job at norwich and a great relationship with glen roeder and it was going to take somthing special to take me away from there. www.htafc.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10312~1485976,00.html - this is his first interview can some people really say that they think he isnt going to take us places ?
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 16, 2009 13:01:44 GMT 1
Its silly because theres been plenty of times since he went out on loan that we could have really done with him. Even if you're still giving Goodwin the starting place then coming on for Goodwin when hes being easily bypassed in midfield or in these last few games when we've looked really lightweight without Goodwin at all. The boy IS good enough for a team trying to get out of this division. We'll just have to disagree on that. He was in 2005 and he is now. Why Yeovil? because they were not a rival to us for a top 6 place. We ( rightly) dismissed enquiries from at least one club that was.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Mar 16, 2009 13:02:42 GMT 1
I think he's going more out of circumstance We have IMO 5 senior central midfielders (Worthy, Craney, Collins, Flynn. Goodwin), i.e aged 23 and older with the likes of Berrett "developing" behind them Ideally we want 4 central midfielders, one defensive (plus cover) and one attacking (plus cover) Other than Goodwin only Worthy offers an experienced defensive option Collins is my pick for the attacking midfielder so his understudy should be one of Craney/ Flynn In an ideal world it would be one of Flynn or Craney off IMO - but lets face it who would want either of them. I mean Darlo's fans couldn't wait to send Flynn back, maybe Accrington will come in for Craney again I also suspect Worthy's wages would be less than Craney's and Flynn's - so another plus for Worthy Given that we're stuck (and I think that is the right word) with Flynn and Craney it looks like Worthy will draw the short straw which is a crying shame because it unbalances our midfield (1 defensive midfielder and 3 attacking ones vs 2 defensive midfielders and 2 attacking ones) and also I'd much rather have people like Worthy on the books who would bleed Blue and White blood than players of lesser quality for who Town is just another club in there career!
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bigfatmonkey
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Post by bigfatmonkey on Mar 16, 2009 13:44:04 GMT 1
"We have a player who would stop us being 'outbattled' or 'outfought' (though he gets critisised for this), who plays with passion and enormous desire, would play box to box and support a lone striker if asked to . Unfortunately hes on loan at Yeovil and Clark has'nt even shown him the courtesy of a chance to impress him. A daft mistake and really unfair after several years where he's carried the sides passion and will to win, often almost single handedly, to the opposition. Just HOW MANY times have we been crying out for him since he went out on loan?? Madness, it really is!"
Agreed 100% per cent. the funny thing is one of the games we;ve cried out for him most was actually against yeovil, then a day or two later he ends up signing for them! crazy. the treatment of worthy is the least understandable of all clark's actions so far in my opinion.
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leedsterrier
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Post by leedsterrier on Mar 16, 2009 13:52:03 GMT 1
and another thing . . . .. . . . . deano said that he wanted to wait to pick the right man. he picked clark based on his enthusiasm contacts and knowledge of football. clark stated when he arrived at town i had a fantastic job at norwich and a great relationship with glen roeder and it was going to take somthing special to take me away from there. www.htafc.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10312~1485976,00.html - this is his first interview can some people really say that they think he isnt going to take us places ? Yeah worked with Glenn Roeder who got sacked not soon after Clark joined us. Could be seen as jumping before he was pushed...
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Post by shawsie on Mar 16, 2009 15:16:58 GMT 1
Its silly because theres been plenty of times since he went out on loan that we could have really done with him. Even if you're still giving Goodwin the starting place then coming on for Goodwin when hes being easily bypassed in midfield or in these last few games when we've looked really lightweight without Goodwin at all. The boy IS good enough for a team trying to get out of this division. We'll just have to disagree on that. He was in 2005 and he is now. Why Yeovil? because they were not a rival to us for a top 6 place. We ( rightly) dismissed enquiries from at least one club that was. But Worthy isnt a defensive midfield player who holds it together when we are being by-passed slapps - he is a box to box type and that comes from Gerry Murphy not me!!! ;D
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 16, 2009 15:26:26 GMT 1
He has been in the past and can be again. What do you need to play that position? Tenacity, a great engine. No one can tell me JW doesn't have those in abundance. Think of a renowned defensive midfielder- Makelele at Chelsea. he never raked 50 yard passes about, never scored a goal, barely crossed the half way line. He just broke up opposition attacks then gave it to a more skillfull player to build Chelsea attack with. Worthy's game is made for that. Yes he played the box to box role most for us, but IMO his game is better suited to the defensive role and at that id prefer him over anyone else we have. Goodwin just doesn't cut it defensively for me ( as I may have mentioned before )
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Post by BradfordTerrier on Mar 16, 2009 16:17:11 GMT 1
roberts shouldnt be playing, without pilkington god help us imo.... have to build for next season.... upfront besides boothy we are a joke imo... Sorry, can't agree on that one. Yes, Roberts hasn't been as good as he can be recently, but, he has still bagged against Colchester and Millwall recently, is our best player in terms of assists and is our top scorer. Who could realistically replace him?? Cads works hard but has created 3 and scored NONE, Ainsworth will be quality but needs time at moment with all other stuff going on which leaves us with?? Roberts is frustrating because we know how good he can be but even not playing well, he still remains our biggest threat in front of goal and always a potential matchwinner/saver. Sometimes I feel our expectations as supporters are too high and some seem to forget we are in Division 3. I reckon most other teams in this division would want Roberts.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2009 18:24:31 GMT 1
and another thing . . . .. . . . . deano said that he wanted to wait to pick the right man. he picked clark based on his enthusiasm contacts and knowledge of football. clark stated when he arrived at town i had a fantastic job at norwich and a great relationship with glen roeder and it was going to take somthing special to take me away from there. www.htafc.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10312~1485976,00.html - this is his first interview can some people really say that they think he isnt going to take us places ? Yeah worked with Glenn Roeder who got sacked not soon after Clark joined us. Could be seen as jumping before he was pushed... i wasnt making the point about workin with glen roeder you idiot . i was saying that he thinks we are somthing special and wants to take us places
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Post by shawsie on Mar 16, 2009 19:47:32 GMT 1
He has been in the past and can be again. What do you need to play that position? Tenacity, a great engine. No one can tell me JW doesn't have those in abundance. Think of a renowned defensive midfielder- Makelele at Chelsea. he never raked 50 yard passes about, never scored a goal, barely crossed the half way line. He just broke up opposition attacks then gave it to a more skillfull player to build Chelsea attack with. Worthy's game is made for that. Yes he played the box to box role most for us, but IMO his game is better suited to the defensive role and at that id prefer him over anyone else we have. Goodwin just doesn't cut it defensively for me ( as I may have mentioned before ) Why do you need a great engine to do that job if its not box to box??!! With respect makelele hasnt got the greatest engine - the hallmarks of a great defensive midfielder are good positional sense, ability to read the game, tackle effectively without going to ground all the time and when you win it give it to those who can play with flair! Worthy doesnt hit any of those buttons for me - we have only had barry horne in recent seasons who has had that ability, although goodwin imo is the nearest we have had since. As for the "he did it in 05 he could do it now" - ask yourself where the bulk of that bunch of players is now. Only 2 to my knowledge have played at a higher level in the 4 years since. The others have been in this league or the one below and that tells us all we need to know fella!
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Post by Floyds on Mar 16, 2009 20:22:19 GMT 1
Worthy isnt good enough just like 90% of our squad
But at least the lad tried and gave 100% in every game
And i would rather have him in the squad than ian craney or flynn
I suppose since he is out of contract it is best for him to leave - that said - cant understand why Holdsworth or Tom Clarke got a contract and Worthy didnt?
Because they are not up to it either unfortunately...
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Mar 16, 2009 20:25:22 GMT 1
My comments on Roberts were probably a tad too harsh but he hasnt been playing well at all recently , he is defo worth keeping for the squad !
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 17, 2009 1:59:15 GMT 1
He has been in the past and can be again. What do you need to play that position? Tenacity, a great engine. No one can tell me JW doesn't have those in abundance. Think of a renowned defensive midfielder- Makelele at Chelsea. he never raked 50 yard passes about, never scored a goal, barely crossed the half way line. He just broke up opposition attacks then gave it to a more skillfull player to build Chelsea attack with. Worthy's game is made for that. Yes he played the box to box role most for us, but IMO his game is better suited to the defensive role and at that id prefer him over anyone else we have. Goodwin just doesn't cut it defensively for me ( as I may have mentioned before ) Why do you need a great engine to do that job if its not box to box??!! With respect makelele hasnt got the greatest engine - the hallmarks of a great defensive midfielder are good positional sense, ability to read the game, tackle effectively without going to ground all the time and when you win it give it to those who can play with flair! Worthy doesnt hit any of those buttons for me - we have only had barry horne in recent seasons who has had that ability, although goodwin imo is the nearest we have had since. As for the "he did it in 05 he could do it now" - ask yourself where the bulk of that bunch of players is now. Only 2 to my knowledge have played at a higher level in the 4 years since. The others have been in this league or the one below and that tells us all we need to know fella! You need a good engine to close down, move, close down again ,move, chase, tackle. Thats why Goodwin isn't up to it and isn't as good as worthy. He is too easily bypassed and struggles when we come under any sustained pressure. Fine when we have the ball and the other team aren't closing him down so hes got loads of time to slowly move play on or do that 5o yard pass to the wing he likes. But when thats not the case, Worthys the better option. Hes also a better tackler than Goodwin and gives far less free kicks away especially round our box ( a nasty habit Goodwin does a lot thats cost us plenty of points this season) Don't get your point about the team of 05/06. Are you saying they weren't good enough to go up back then? They froze for 30 minutes of a play off that they'd been the best side in home and away, against a side we'd outplayed twice in the normal season and finished above, but who then went up instead. Thats football. The best team doesn't always win. But we were better than Barnsley, the team that went up. and Worthy, Holdsworth, Clarke etc were key players in that team. They were good enough to go up them and they are now IMO.
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Post by shawsie on Mar 17, 2009 2:14:19 GMT 1
Why do you need a great engine to do that job if its not box to box??!! With respect makelele hasnt got the greatest engine - the hallmarks of a great defensive midfielder are good positional sense, ability to read the game, tackle effectively without going to ground all the time and when you win it give it to those who can play with flair! Worthy doesnt hit any of those buttons for me - we have only had barry horne in recent seasons who has had that ability, although goodwin imo is the nearest we have had since. As for the "he did it in 05 he could do it now" - ask yourself where the bulk of that bunch of players is now. Only 2 to my knowledge have played at a higher level in the 4 years since. The others have been in this league or the one below and that tells us all we need to know fella! You need a good engine to close down, move, close down again ,move, chase, tackle. Thats why Goodwin isn't up to it and isn't as good as worthy. He is too easily bypassed and struggles when we come under any sustained pressure. Fine when we have the ball and the other team aren't closing him down so hes got loads of time to slowly move play on or do that 5o yard pass to the wing he likes. But when thats not the case, Worthys the better option. Hes also a better tackler than Goodwin and gives far less free kicks away especially round our box ( a nasty habit Goodwin does a lot thats cost us plenty of points this season) Don't get your point about the team of 05/06. Are you saying they weren't good enough to go up back then? They froze for 30 minutes of a play off that they'd been the best side in home and away, against a side we'd outplayed twice in the normal season and finished above, but who then went up instead. Thats football. The best team doesn't always win. But we were better than Barnsley, the team that went up. and Worthy, Holdsworth, Clarke etc were key players in that team. They were good enough to go up them and they are now IMO. We aint going to agree on goodwin v worthy slapps and i respect your opinion but you are wrong!!! I dont recall barry horne having a great engine in the way you indicated and even you cant say worthy is in his class!!! As for the 05/06 team - my point is quite simple. Bearing in mind good footballers dont grow on trees, if ours were better than league 1 then why havent other teams bought them? We had one of the lowest wage bills in league 1 under KD and still only rachubka and gtf from the play off team have gone on to better things in 4 years! As such i think it is entirely reasonable to assume that we have over rated these players - indeed, some of those that have left have gone backwards into league 2! Its ok and quite right to say a bad 30mins cost us in the play offs, but what has happened since? Its 4 years plus now and have any of those lads done enough to warrant playing at a higher level - the fact they are still here in a mid table league 1 side says no!!!!
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Mar 17, 2009 14:50:34 GMT 1
Of interest Shawsie the majority of the Barnsley team that beat us that night are playing League One or below, less than three years on... Colgan - Sunderland third choice keeper Heckingbotton - Sadford Reid - Colchester Kay - Tranmere Hassell - Barnsley Devaney - Barnsley Howard - Sheffield United McPhail - Cardiff Hayes - Scunthorpe Richards - Port Vale Nardiello - currently on loan at Hartlepool Of the subs Wright - Aberdeen (via a season at Darlo) Shuker - Tranmere So 4 remain in the Championship, two at Barnsley plus Howard and McPhail and Colgan would probably get a League One side if he left Sunderalnd www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=485013My point is you don't need Championship quality to get out of League One and just because the likes of Nathan Clarke and Holdsworth haven't played in the Championship it doesn't mean they're poorer players than Kay or Heckingbottom If Town's current team had McPhail, Howard and Devaney I suspect we'd be serious contenders ... personally I think Roberts and Pilkington are as good the Barnsley wingers of 3 years ago so we're not that far off as a squad (plus two strikers)
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 17, 2009 16:48:07 GMT 1
Barry Horne was a quality player and a calming influence on the side even though he perhaps didn't have the engine hed had earlier in his career. But he played alongside dynamos like Grant Johnson of Richardson. A bit different from being asked to play defensive midfield alongside Collins or Craney.
It doesn't matter whats happened to the team of 05/06 since. The point is they were good enough to go up and but for a bad 30 minutes, might well have done. You keep insisting these players aren't good enough, but just like that season, they are!
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Post by shawsie on Mar 18, 2009 10:56:40 GMT 1
Of interest Shawsie the majority of the Barnsley team that beat us that night are playing League One or below, less than three years on... Colgan - Sunderland third choice keeper Heckingbotton - Sadford Reid - Colchester Kay - Tranmere Hassell - Barnsley Devaney - Barnsley Howard - Sheffield United McPhail - Cardiff Hayes - Scunthorpe Richards - Port Vale Nardiello - currently on loan at Hartlepool Of the subs Wright - Aberdeen (via a season at Darlo) Shuker - Tranmere So 4 remain in the Championship, two at Barnsley plus Howard and McPhail and Colgan would probably get a League One side if he left Sunderalnd www.soccerbase.com/results3.sd?gameid=485013My point is you don't need Championship quality to get out of League One and just because the likes of Nathan Clarke and Holdsworth haven't played in the Championship it doesn't mean they're poorer players than Kay or Heckingbottom If Town's current team had McPhail, Howard and Devaney I suspect we'd be serious contenders ... personally I think Roberts and Pilkington are as good the Barnsley wingers of 3 years ago so we're not that far off as a squad (plus two strikers) So on that basis we want to get up and then change it all because those players arent good enough!!! Surely better to plan (as clark has stated many times) to go up and stay up!!!! As i and many other posters have said, if we do that then the current lot (with a few exceptions) just aint good enough!
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