ellsky
Juvenile Terrier
Posts: 47
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:00:47 GMT 1
Post by ellsky on Mar 19, 2009 17:00:47 GMT 1
Flynny to start on Saturday is a must he is playing solid ,if anyone deserves a chance he does .If he starts i bet he scores
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:07:22 GMT 1
Post by runner76 on Mar 19, 2009 17:07:22 GMT 1
Well, his team are top of the league as well...............................so, yes, why not
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:16:41 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 17:16:41 GMT 1
It's alright saying that in theory, but I'd rather we play 4-4-2 on Saturday, I wouldn't drop Collins, and wouldn't play Flynn and Collins together, so I'm not sure where I'd fit him in.
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:20:30 GMT 1
Post by westhtafc on Mar 19, 2009 17:20:30 GMT 1
Give him a go why not. Can score goals. Collins' main reason he was playing ahead of Flynn and Craney was the important goals he was scoring. Now they have dried up i think its time to give Flynn a chance.
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:22:51 GMT 1
Post by wonderousworthy on Mar 19, 2009 17:22:51 GMT 1
Smithies
T Clarke Lucketti Butler Williams
Pilks Collins Goodwin Roberts
Booth jevons
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:27:24 GMT 1
Post by marshterrier on Mar 19, 2009 17:27:24 GMT 1
GK: Smithies
RWB: Holdsworth LWB: Williams
CB: Lucketti CB: Butler CB: T Clarke
CM: Collins CM: Goodwin
AM: Roberts
CF: Booth CF: Pilkington
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:31:22 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 17:31:22 GMT 1
Collins brings little to the team if he isn't scoring goals. He is too quiet for a centre midfielder. If we had a Manchester United-esque defence, then a player like Collins is fine.
I'm not saying we need 2 defensive midfield ball winners in the middle but I think Pilkington would fit the mould of offering a big threat going forward and not shirking doing some work.
I'd like Pilkington in there but he is talented and versatile so offers us another wide option.
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:36:00 GMT 1
Post by hunsworthterrier on Mar 19, 2009 17:36:00 GMT 1
It`s time to experiment. So what about:
GK Smithies
RB Holdsworth CB Lucketi CB Butler LB Williams
DM Berret CM Flynn CM Craney
RW Pilkington LW Roberts
CF Booth
Flynn and Craney can both get forward and score from midfield. Pilks and Roberts to support Booth. Could be potent. Alternatively, could be crap and we get gubbed.
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:49:28 GMT 1
Post by westhtafc on Mar 19, 2009 17:49:28 GMT 1
We can't keep playing 1 upfront IMO, especially at home. The idea in theory is a good one but we very rarely get anyone forward quick enough to support the frontman.
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:50:12 GMT 1
Post by pompeyterrier on Mar 19, 2009 17:50:12 GMT 1
Is Collins really that bad? Every week someone mentions that he should be dropped and he disappears from games etc. The last few games I've seen him he's been good and has worked well off the ball. Either this goes unnoticed or I'm seeing things ?? In a team that struggles to score goals I don't get why people want to drop a player that has not only been scoring but creating. He even set up the goal at Tranmere didn't he? He just seems to come in for a lot of stick these days, its almost as if Williams is playing well so people have to find a new player to get at
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:57:14 GMT 1
Post by hunsworthterrier on Mar 19, 2009 17:57:14 GMT 1
We can't keep playing 1 upfront IMO, especially at home. The idea in theory is a good one but we very rarely get anyone forward quick enough to support the frontman. The problem is, we only have one forward worth playing. With Berett in the holding role there is no excuse for Craney and Flyn not to get forward and if Roberts and Pilks support properly it would be like having 3 up front.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 17:59:04 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 17:59:04 GMT 1
Is Collins really that bad? Every week someone mentions that he should be dropped and he disappears from games etc. The last few games I've seen him he's been good and has worked well off the ball. Either this goes unnoticed or I'm seeing things ?? In a team that struggles to score goals I don't get why people want to drop a player that has not only been scoring but creating. He even set up the goal at Tranmere didn't he? He just seems to come in for a lot of stick these days, its almost as if Williams is playing well so people have to find a new player to get at Don't worry Pompey, besides the Millwall game, I still think our left back position is our weakest link. I don't dislike Collins, its just that I play as a centre midfielder, usually more of a defensive one than an attacking one but if my midfield partner did as little work as Collins, I'd be absolutely fuming and would berate him. I'd do it so the gaffer culd hear as well so if he hadn't noticed it before, he would keep an eye out for it. That's the difference between amateur and professional though. It would be seen as Bowyer vs Dyer round 2
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 18:25:37 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 18:25:37 GMT 1
It`s time to experiment. So what about: GK Smithies RB Holdsworth CB Lucketi CB Butler LB Williams DM Berret CM Flynn CM Craney RW Pilkington LW Roberts CF Booth Flynn and Craney can both get forward and score from midfield. Pilks and Roberts to support Booth. Could be potent. Alternatively, could be crap and we get gubbed. If Clark thinks it's time to experiment, then he's got to go with Werling.
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philex
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,514
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 18:48:02 GMT 1
Post by philex on Mar 19, 2009 18:48:02 GMT 1
Is Collins really that bad? Every week someone mentions that he should be dropped and he disappears from games etc. The last few games I've seen him he's been good and has worked well off the ball. Either this goes unnoticed or I'm seeing things ?? In a team that struggles to score goals I don't get why people want to drop a player that has not only been scoring but creating. He even set up the goal at Tranmere didn't he? He just seems to come in for a lot of stick these days, its almost as if Williams is playing well so people have to find a new player to get at Basically he's not crunching people, that's why people thing he is missing. Now if people watched him and saw the (intelligent!) runs that he makes, the harassing he does to make people do quick passes (and make mistakes) and the amount of link up play he is involved in they would realise what a quality midfielder we have. As for Flynn, I hope he plays, then we can put the theory to bed that he is one of our best midfielders, I'm sure ellsky must be his agent
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 19:37:59 GMT 1
Post by jonnyhtfc90 on Mar 19, 2009 19:37:59 GMT 1
Time to start playing the fringe players, give some a chance to prove themselves worthy before the pre-season clearout.
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 19:57:16 GMT 1
Post by boothylegend on Mar 19, 2009 19:57:16 GMT 1
Is Collins really that bad? Every week someone mentions that he should be dropped and he disappears from games etc. The last few games I've seen him he's been good and has worked well off the ball. Either this goes unnoticed or I'm seeing things ?? In a team that struggles to score goals I don't get why people want to drop a player that has not only been scoring but creating. He even set up the goal at Tranmere didn't he? He just seems to come in for a lot of stick these days, its almost as if Williams is playing well so people have to find a new player to get at Basically he's not crunching people, that's why people thing he is missing. Now if people watched him and saw the (intelligent!) runs that he makes, the harassing he does to make people do quick passes (and make mistakes) and the amount of link up play he is involved in they would realise what a quality midfielder we have. As for Flynn, I hope he plays, then we can put the theory to bed that he is one of our best midfielders, I'm sure ellsky must be his agent What he said . I put Collins down to a typical case of datm's influence on supporters. A couple don't like him because to be a footballer in Yorkshire you have to be the rough and ready type, in the main, particularly in positions like Centre Mid, Centre Half etc. then because people have read his (perceived?) deficiencies, they begin to agree. This means that it's posted more and more, so more and more agree... I think Collins is a decent enough player. We didn't look particularly short in midfield (except for the odd game) until Goodwin got suspended. That should tell us something.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 20:01:12 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 20:01:12 GMT 1
Is Collins really that bad? Every week someone mentions that he should be dropped and he disappears from games etc. The last few games I've seen him he's been good and has worked well off the ball. Either this goes unnoticed or I'm seeing things ?? In a team that struggles to score goals I don't get why people want to drop a player that has not only been scoring but creating. He even set up the goal at Tranmere didn't he? He just seems to come in for a lot of stick these days, its almost as if Williams is playing well so people have to find a new player to get at Basically he's not crunching people, that's why people thing he is missing. Now if people watched him and saw the (intelligent!) runs that he makes, the harassing he does to make people do quick passes (and make mistakes) and the amount of link up play he is involved in they would realise what a quality midfielder we have. As for Flynn, I hope he plays, then we can put the theory to bed that he is one of our best midfielders, I'm sure ellsky must be his agent I concur ;D
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Flynny
Mar 19, 2009 20:44:53 GMT 1
Post by TerrierArmy on Mar 19, 2009 20:44:53 GMT 1
I don't dislike Collins, its just that I play as a centre midfielder, usually more of a defensive one than an attacking one but if my midfield partner did as little work as Collins, I'd be absolutely fuming and would berate him. I'd do it so the gaffer culd hear as well so if he hadn't noticed it before, he would keep an eye out for it. Shame our manager never played centre mid at the highest level isn't it And Collins does work hard off the ball.
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 0:09:19 GMT 1
Post by specialun on Mar 20, 2009 0:09:19 GMT 1
Collins does more than craney and flynn put together. None of them can defend, but collins can get at least back into position to defend.
He gets back into position which is half the issue.
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 1:55:44 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2009 1:55:44 GMT 1
Some people will just never notice the off the ball movement Collins does or the endless energy as he tracks back and gets forward, or the simple, quick linking of play when he has the ball ( even though he has bugger-all to link with up front) as he creates another chance. This is Collins's fault, not the fans who can't see past another 'disappearing act'. He should start being more OBVIOUS and launch into blood and guts tackles now and then, try 60 yard passes that might ,sometimes find their target or shoot from daft distances. Then everyone will notice what hes doing.
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 2:12:30 GMT 1
Post by hotshot on Mar 20, 2009 2:12:30 GMT 1
Collins is the type of player who needs constant competition from other midfielders. Let's not forget that he's been dropped by the three previous managers for loss of form, quite rightly so at the time in my opinion. On his day he can be great but it's not unfair to say he does go missing from far too many games. A few years ago after he scored his first goal he went right of the boil and it was as it all went to his head and he thought he had made it, he was dropped soon after but this season, the extra competition seems to have matured him as a player. Definatley needs a Goodwin or tough man alongside him to compliment his style.
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 8:30:23 GMT 1
Post by jimharrogate on Mar 20, 2009 8:30:23 GMT 1
Should be given a game as he's no worse than others.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 9:08:43 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 9:08:43 GMT 1
Collins is the type of player who needs constant competition from other midfielders. Let's not forget that he's been dropped by the three previous managers for loss of form, quite rightly so at the time in my opinion. On his day he can be great but it's not unfair to say he does go missing from far too many games. A few years ago after he scored his first goal he went right of the boil and it was as it all went to his head and he thought he had made it, he was dropped soon after but this season, the extra competition seems to have matured him as a player. Definatley needs a Goodwin or tough man alongside him to compliment his style. Not quite true - Collins was immense when Ritchie first came in at the end of the season when he played at the tip of the diamond in midfield. He then struggled with what they termed at Town as "2nd full season syndrome" where he was pretty gash due to lack of form and poss trying too hard. This season he's been great but he's an attacking box to box midfielder and yes he will go "missing" when we don't have the ball and are under the cosh because he won't be on it as much. I think those who state he goes missing don't quite see the full picture sometimes... Yep he has crap games where he's not involved granted, but sometimes he is out of the game due to either his own players bypassing him in midifeld or our strikers not holding the ball up to allow him to support. Collins' game depends so much on others involving him in it. If we can't retain the ball then Collins often gets left in no mans land as his job is to break forward and support the attack. When we played Jevo and Parker up front then there will be large periods where he's not going to get the ball because Jevo and Parker didn't hold the ball well enough. Also, it is Goodwins job to get on the ball in midfield and distribute - he'll rarely play a short ball to Collins and tends to spread the ball out to the wings. If the wingers can hold the ball for a few misn Collins is generally 5 yards from them within seconds. If we get a striker with pace who can hold the ball up then I think we'll see Collins involved a lot more often.
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 9:44:24 GMT 1
Post by terrierspam on Mar 20, 2009 9:44:24 GMT 1
"Collins' game depends so much on others involving him in it. If we can't retain the ball then Collins often gets left in no mans land" but as a midfielder shouldnt you be getting yourself in the game? your in the important part for the pitch and yet he doesnt want to jump into a tackle and he doesnt have a clue where to run when defending. i like collins, i think he is class with the ball at his feet. yes i agree with a fair bit of what novakaine thinks but still the lad has to work on that part of his game to make him that player he wants to be. EDIT - Start flynn and give him a chance to hold onto the shirt. might make collins work on his game that bit more!
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 10:55:33 GMT 1
Post by SaleTerrier on Mar 20, 2009 10:55:33 GMT 1
collins game is all about the runs he makes off the ball
think novakine is making the point that for collins to be most effective, the strikers have to hold on to the ball.
he has endless energy, runs up and down all day long and always busts a gut to get in the box, for are strikers to lose the ball and him have to run back again.
he wins a fair few headers in the middle, and is always in the position to block off passes and make it harder for the player on the ball
he's not a player thats gonna take the game y the scruff of its neck, but he always causes the defence problems with his runs from midfield.
anyway, i'd like to see
Smithies
t clarke lucketti/clarke butler werling
goodwin/berret
flynn collins
roberts booth pilkington
theres nothing to play for, so we might as well try to play some attacking football thats good to watch, in order to get more people to renew season tickets etc
and give the fans some much needed enjoyment after the last 6 games
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 10:57:34 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2009 10:57:34 GMT 1
Holdsworth or Berrett deserve a chance in Collin's role well before Flynn, and both would do a far better job IMO. Flynn is a L2 player ( though Darlington might argue about that! )
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 11:05:49 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 11:05:49 GMT 1
collins game is all about the runs he makes off the ball think novakine is making the point that for collins to be most effective, the strikers have to hold on to the ball. he has endless energy, runs up and down all day long and always busts a gut to get in the box, for are strikers to lose the ball and him have to run back again. Precisely what I'm getting at ;D
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 11:07:50 GMT 1
Post by terrierspam on Mar 20, 2009 11:07:50 GMT 1
Holdsworth or Berrett deserve a chance in Collin's role well before Flynn, and both would do a far better job IMO. Flynn is a L2 player ( though Darlington might argue about that! ) so you would play one of two defensive players with goodwin or would you play some else. berrett wont get a chance unless the formations changes and he will only play holdsworth at right back. i was always a fan of holdsworth but if the club is to go forward holdsworth is not the key.
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 11:09:24 GMT 1
Post by specialun on Mar 20, 2009 11:09:24 GMT 1
If its 451, I'd go
Smithies
T clarke Lucketti (if clarke not fit) butler williams
Goodwin, HOLDSWORTH
Pilkington Collins Roberts
booth
Which effectively makes it 4231 - giving us a solid base with goodwin and holdsworth...goodwin to batter, holdsworth to intercept, set the tempo, retain the ball, etc i.e. do what he did ehrn he was player of the season in a better team than the one we have today.
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philex
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,514
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Flynny
Mar 20, 2009 11:14:17 GMT 1
Post by philex on Mar 20, 2009 11:14:17 GMT 1
If its 451, I'd go Smithies T clarke Lucketti (if clarke not fit) butler williams Goodwin, HOLDSWORTH Pilkington Collins Roberts booth Which effectively makes it 4231 - giving us a solid base with goodwin and holdsworth...goodwin to batter, holdsworth to intercept, set the tempo, retain the ball, etc i.e. do what he did ehrn he was player of the season in a better team than the one we have today. That could be worth trying, would just have to make sure pilks and Roberts help out the full backs
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