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Post by TerrierArmy on Mar 20, 2009 13:45:13 GMT 1
Complete speculation - The Midfielder, if it's not complete bullshit, could be that N'Guessan chap from Lincoln. Jacko would have good things to say about us (hopefully). It would be good to have some real power in Midfield. I thought he was a winger anyway?? Good player though and was almost MK Dons bound. |
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Post by bluearmy86 on Mar 20, 2009 13:50:27 GMT 1
Complete speculation - The Midfielder, if it's not complete bullshit, could be that N'Guessan chap from Lincoln. Jacko would have good things to say about us (hopefully). It would be good to have some real power in Midfield. I thought he was a winger anyway?? Good player though and was almost MK Dons bound. You're probably right. I read somewhere he was a 'midfielder', which is often used to describe wingers on official sites. Then without even thinking I did the following, slightly non PC, equation; Black man + Midfielder = Powerful Essien type player. |
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Post by TerrierArmy on Mar 20, 2009 13:55:55 GMT 1
Black man + Midfielder = Powerful Essien type player. Jacko tried that formula in his scouting computer and it came up with 'Des Hamilton'. That computer was never seen again... |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Mar 20, 2009 14:43:41 GMT 1
Yeah they're easy to replace I mean last season we released a lot of lower paid academy fringe players and in the summer replaced them with highly paid non academy fringe players. Brilliant! We also somehow have managed to go down the league table placings despite all this spending  Signing a new player is a total lottery and history should teach us more than half of new signings fail to be better than what was already here IMO! Holdsworth is a good and versatile player with IMO Championship potential, if he goes it's highly possible that a new player will not be an improvement, i.e. everyone thought Sinclair was the bees knees this time 2 years ago I also agree that there are plenty who are quick to attack the academy players. I mean Skarz is roundly written off despite still being in his teens! |
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Post by rage_of_ed on Mar 20, 2009 14:47:02 GMT 1
Black man + Midfielder = Powerful Essien type player. Jacko tried that formula in his scouting computer and it came up with 'Des Hamilton'. That computer was never seen again... HAHA! I just sprayed Sprite all over my PC monitor thanks to that! I love the image. Are there any others we can think of that turned into Hamilton-esque failures? |
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Post by aca00js on Mar 20, 2009 14:53:25 GMT 1
With all the talk from Hoyle that Clark will sign two strikers it always lead me to believe that the deals were done or pretty much done.
Lambert and Graham is a promotion leading strike force
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Post by Floyds on Mar 20, 2009 14:54:30 GMT 1
Micheal Williams looked (and played the same position) like Viera....
Worse than Des though, that one.
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2009 14:58:47 GMT 1
Well I think its clear home grown players get FAR more critisism then imported ones.
Holdsworth was ,10 months ago, our best player. Now hes been playing in his '2nd' role all season (where he hasn't been anything like as bad as some try and make out- if anything has been consistantly OK, which is better than most), people want him out, for free!
Collins, scoring match winning goals at almost a 1 in 2 rate isn't enough, and its easy it seems to ignore/miss all the good work he does most games. Another one people think could be got rid of, or at least replaced even with FLYNN (FFS!)
Worthy-been done to death I know, but POTS not long ago, now get rid for nothing even though we clearly miss his energy and tenacity.
Clarke- POTS THIS SEASON!! Has been excellent since Page arrived alongside him over a year ago, and is BY FAR our best defender now. Not enough for some though who would like to see him ditched!
Yet we should ignore Flynns 16 rubbish games out of 18 cos he is the answer. Pilkington, has a few decent games, thats all they are- decent games, and hes the best player we've had in years. Cads has been much more effective than Pilks, yet plenty want Cads ditched. Goodwin, can't do anything wrong, at least not that gets noticed ,like his bookings record, his disapearing act when we'rte under pressure, his penchant for giving away pens and free kicks around the area.
Lucketti, after a few games where we've conceded loads of goals and had relegation form is our best defender now and ,of course, should partner Butler at the back.
Why are people so keen to repeat the same mistakes turnip made less than a year ago? Get rid of all the home grown players, the ones with a genuine love of the club, and replace them with journeymen who aren't as good and regard Town as just another club they've played for. Did you not see how well this worked out for Turnip?
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Post by Floyds on Mar 20, 2009 15:05:28 GMT 1
Hudds i think that was more to do with ST and his horrendous skills as a football manager, rather than showing that our academy lads are any good.
Not really a total lottery if you go for proven players in this league? Big money on good players is what is required.
If we only have the money for three quality or six average signings - it has to be the three every time.
Championship potential?
Come off it. What, like Nathan Clarke was wanted by Villa, in 4-4-2 etc etc?
He has been poor in a lower than average league one side, and wouldnt be getting in the team now if we had anything like another rightback in the squad
If he has Championship potential - why on earth isnt he showing it?
If you believe that, then like i said, surely it is better for him (and us) if he is allowed to leave.
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Post by specialun on Mar 20, 2009 15:11:17 GMT 1
This Lucketti love in has me bemused. He's done ok since he's back in but the defence is sitting 2 yerds deeper and the gap between the defnece and midfield and midfield and attack is larger.
We've also started to play long ball far more since he came in, imo, as a direct result of sitting deeper.
And since he came in we have conceded :8 goals in 4 games.
Compare to clarke and butler since turnip left :19 in 18 league games. (Or playing 442/451/4132 i.e. with a back 4, its 13 in 11)
Personally, I'd rather take the one where we concede less with nathan clarke and without lucketti.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Mar 20, 2009 16:21:58 GMT 1
Strange things happen in football, I mean three years ago Phil Senior was rightly keeping the frankly dodgy Paul Rabchubka out of the side. Now Rabchubka is in the Championship (never saw that potential three years ago) and Senior plays for AFC Halifax in about 6 leagues below the Football League! Holdsworth is though IMO Championship quality, he's a much better spec than people like Mattis who played at that level Honestly I wrote before he signed his deal that Smithies may have been better to have left while his star was in the ascendance. 2 years ago Mirfin showed loyalty, had a bad season and the fans turned. Now Holdsworth is getting the same treatment. Some fans demand players show loyalty when it suits them but lack patience to accept players sometimes go through bad patches so the loyalty is not recipricated! I find it rather nauseating the way certain posters eulogise about highly paid let downs like Flynn and Craney who lets face it have both brought preciously nothing to the squad that wasn't already here (and that's being generous). Yet it's fair game to knock loyal pros who've been with the club most of there lives like Holdsworth, Collins and especially Worthy (Nathan Clarke getting a easier ride this season but I'm sure it's only a brief respite!) It's also okay to dismiss and write off Tom Clarke because he's not played much in 2 years (I guess he's meant to play on his crutches) or Broadbent (because despite being the best apprentice in League One last season and a England schoolboy international) he hasn't started for Gateshead - nothing to do with Gateshead maybe not wanting to play two teenagers upfront at the business end of the season or drop there leading scorer for similar player! Skarz should go because at 19 because he's not already in the PFA Team of the Year, and has the temerity to make the odd mistake - I mean no other teenage players make mistakes! Meanwhile people will comment on Codman despite never seeing him play. The same thing happened to Eastwood until he went to Woking, they still haven't seen him play but now he's okay! Why is it so hard to praise our youngsters, I mean Pilkington is the bees knees yet isn't even a regular in the Irish U21's, unlike Collins and Berrett! Yeah give them all the boot what we need is to sign more players who've played in the Championship or higher, McIntosh, Hudson, Sinclair, Beckett, Flynn, Parker, Lucketti, Jevons, Kamara mixed with the odd higher league loanee like Jokevitch or Steve Jones. It's easy signing better these players, Jackson, Richie and Ternent proved that! |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2009 16:42:27 GMT 1
Agree 100% HT.
Pilkington is a wierd one. the lad has afair amount of ability and I think will become a very important player over the next few years for us. But the over-exaggerated praise heaped on him for what is basically a string of 'ok' performances, amazes me.
Since hes been here we've won 2 out of 9 games hes played in, taken 9 out of 27 points. He's scored 1 goal and not exactly set up many others.
Im not slating him, just I totally fail to see what hes done yet to warrent some of things said about him- 'best player we've had for years' etc.
Bit like the Werling thing- hes a tough, hatchet man who'll nail anyone who tries to pass him. Why? because he did one pretty ordinary block in his first appearence that caused the other player to fall over.
Am I the only one who thinks we looked far better with Roberts and cadamarteri on the wings than we have with Pilks and Ainsworth?
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Mar 20, 2009 16:50:26 GMT 1
We've looked better with Cads and Roberts no doubt, but they were starting when we were actually playing alright.
I disagree with you about Holdsworth Slaps, he's getting some stick now we're coming to the end of the season but nothin like the stick that Goodwin got in his few games at RB. Personally I think he's been consistently average at right back, hardly every a bad game but hardly ever a stand-out game too.
As for Pilkington, I think the buzz around him is the flashes of brilliance he's shown. He's won 3 MOTM awards on here already hasn't he? Personally, I'd start Cads + Roberts on the wings and Pilks more central, but god knows if he'd be as much use there! One could only hope, or we'd have a real selection headache having to pick between Pilks and Roberts every week.
I'd like to see Holdsworth swap with Collins in CM as well for a few games, but it won't happen.
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Post by CaptainHart on Mar 20, 2009 17:06:41 GMT 1
nothin like the stick that Goodwin got in his few games at RB. Goodwin deservedly got stick for his performances at RB. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Mar 20, 2009 17:08:10 GMT 1
Give over slaps you're not allowed to suggest that the new signings unsettled the side that was looking like it could make the play offs!
Pilks will be a good player but I'm less impressed by Ainsworth, on the pitch he has been moderate if we're being honest - i.e. can you imagine the slating Collins or Cads would have got if they'd missed that one on one v Millwall or Kamara if frequenty when he took a man on he kicked the ball straight into touch!
He may come good on the pitch but frankly it's not encouraging to me that practically no sooner than his signing on cheque has cleared into his bank than he's on the streets of Nottingham scraping getting arrested! But he gets practically no criticism for that and infact some praise!
Maybe it's out of character (both on and off the field and the result of extreme extenuating circumstances) but he needs to show more IMO to justify his price tag, let alone getting a starting place over a fit Cads!
Like I say there's a new signing glow while existing players are either taken for granted (at best) or if there form slips derided!
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Post by Spunker on Mar 20, 2009 17:17:10 GMT 1
The striker contract for me would be Graham, it all seemed odd how we just gave up. And with Parker going upto Hartlepool he may just be getting a feel further North and could go the other way- to Carlisle. Just my imagination probably but a few mates think I make sense!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 17:18:45 GMT 1
I believe he played centrally for Stockport, unless I am incorrect.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 17:24:12 GMT 1
Give over slaps you're not allowed to suggest that the new signings unsettled the side that was looking like it could make the play offs! You make it sound like Pilkington and Ainsworth have been brought in, in place of players already in the side. The reality is that Roberts and Cadamateri have played every game in which they've been available since Pilkington and Ainsworth came in. Unfortunately (in the case of Cads especially) that hasn't been too many. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Mar 20, 2009 17:56:20 GMT 1
I agree Paul, I really like Pilkington but the fact is since signing them both we've gone on a bad run, for whatever reason
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 18:00:43 GMT 1
I agree Paul, I really like Pilkington but the fact is since signing them both we've gone on a bad run, for whatever reason You could also say we've gone on a bad run since we stopped playing Parker and Jevons together up front. Doesn't mean that they were the key to our good form though. |
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Post by shawsie on Mar 20, 2009 18:14:02 GMT 1
Strange things happen in football, I mean three years ago Phil Senior was rightly keeping the frankly dodgy Paul Rabchubka out of the side. Now Rabchubka is in the Championship (never saw that potential three years ago) and Senior plays for AFC Halifax in about 6 leagues below the Football League! Holdsworth is though IMO Championship quality, he's a much better spec than people like Mattis who played at that level Honestly I wrote before he signed his deal that Smithies may have been better to have left while his star was in the ascendance. 2 years ago Mirfin showed loyalty, had a bad season and the fans turned. Now Holdsworth is getting the same treatment. Some fans demand players show loyalty when it suits them but lack patience to accept players sometimes go through bad patches so the loyalty is not recipricated! I find it rather nauseating the way certain posters eulogise about highly paid let downs like Flynn and Craney who lets face it have both brought preciously nothing to the squad that wasn't already here (and that's being generous). Yet it's fair game to knock loyal pros who've been with the club most of there lives like Holdsworth, Collins and especially Worthy (Nathan Clarke getting a easier ride this season but I'm sure it's only a brief respite!) It's also okay to dismiss and write off Tom Clarke because he's not played much in 2 years (I guess he's meant to play on his crutches) or Broadbent (because despite being the best apprentice in League One last season and a England schoolboy international) he hasn't started for Gateshead - nothing to do with Gateshead maybe not wanting to play two teenagers upfront at the business end of the season or drop there leading scorer for similar player! Skarz should go because at 19 because he's not already in the PFA Team of the Year, and has the temerity to make the odd mistake - I mean no other teenage players make mistakes! Meanwhile people will comment on Codman despite never seeing him play. The same thing happened to Eastwood until he went to Woking, they still haven't seen him play but now he's okay! Why is it so hard to praise our youngsters, I mean Pilkington is the bees knees yet isn't even a regular in the Irish U21's, unlike Collins and Berrett! Yeah give them all the boot what we need is to sign more players who've played in the Championship or higher, McIntosh, Hudson, Sinclair, Beckett, Flynn, Parker, Lucketti, Jevons, Kamara mixed with the odd higher league loanee like Jokevitch or Steve Jones. It's easy signing better these players, Jackson, Richie and Ternent proved that! Who has eulogised about flynn and craney on here hudds?? All i have seen is a few who have rightly defended flynn because in his 18 games for the club he has played 2 in his rightful position. How well would worthy/holdsworth do on the left wing??!! Also, no-one is knocking the worthys/holdsworths/collins etc - just pointing out that after 4 years of trying to get out of the division (with admittedly some dodgier better paid signings aloing the way) we arent getting closer with some of these lads. They have undoubtedly tried their damndest for most of the time, but the league tables dont lie - 4 seasons is 192 games by my reckoning - holdsworth, worthy, clarke, collins must have played nearly 100 a piece of those and none of them is producing consistent top league 1 level performances and some are going backwards. These things happen in football, but lets not get rose tinted glasses on just because they are academy products! Similarly i do take your point on the craneys,luckettis, mcintoshes etc who have been decently paid but have been poor overall value for money. |
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Post by specialun on Mar 20, 2009 19:28:02 GMT 1
How welll would holdsowrth do on the left wing.
I'd suggest holdsowrth at right back does better than flynn on the wing - same thing isn't it?
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Post by monkey on Mar 20, 2009 19:42:16 GMT 1
We slate town players for being over paid. How we would play for free because we love the club so much.
What does that say about AH?
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Post by andyeastleake on Mar 20, 2009 19:43:26 GMT 1
Well I think its clear home grown players get FAR more critisism then imported ones. Holdsworth was ,10 months ago, our best player. Now hes been playing in his '2nd' role all season (where he hasn't been anything like as bad as some try and make out- if anything has been consistantly OK, which is better than most), people want him out, for free! Collins, scoring match winning goals at almost a 1 in 2 rate isn't enough, and its easy it seems to ignore/miss all the good work he does most games. Another one people think could be got rid of, or at least replaced even with FLYNN (FFS!) Worthy-been done to death I know, but POTS not long ago, now get rid for nothing even though we clearly miss his energy and tenacity. Clarke- POTS THIS SEASON!! Has been excellent since Page arrived alongside him over a year ago, and is BY FAR our best defender now. Not enough for some though who would like to see him ditched! Yet we should ignore Flynns 16 rubbish games out of 18 cos he is the answer. Pilkington, has a few decent games, thats all they are- decent games, and hes the best player we've had in years. Cads has been much more effective than Pilks, yet plenty want Cads ditched. Goodwin, can't do anything wrong, at least not that gets noticed ,like his bookings record, his disapearing act when we'rte under pressure, his penchant for giving away pens and free kicks around the area. Lucketti, after a few games where we've conceded loads of goals and had relegation form is our best defender now and ,of course, should partner Butler at the back. Why are people so keen to repeat the same mistakes turnip made less than a year ago? Get rid of all the home grown players, the ones with a genuine love of the club, and replace them with journeymen who aren't as good and regard Town as just another club they've played for. Did you not see how well this worked out for Turnip? Excellent post once again Captain. Except I think your comments about Pilkington will haunt you. I think he'll prove to be a superb signing (although would accept some comments on this board recently have (like several about Lee Clark) been premature in the extreme. |
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Post by TomTheTerrier on Mar 20, 2009 19:47:52 GMT 1
How welll would holdsowrth do on the left wing.I'd suggest holdsowrth at right back does better than flynn on the wing - same thing isn't it? You just might be on to something... |
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Post by andyeastleake on Mar 20, 2009 19:51:56 GMT 1
Strange things happen in football, I mean three years ago Phil Senior was rightly keeping the frankly dodgy Paul Rabchubka out of the side. CanI have a pint of what you must have drinking over that period Huddsterrier. I thought the "Senior better than Rabchucka (is that spelt right?)" arguments had been confined to history long ago and accepted as the product of temporarily deranged minds (a bit like the "Ternent will sort it out" comments from the "Happy Clappy Brigade" earlier in the season) |
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Post by Tez on Mar 20, 2009 20:00:31 GMT 1
IFs and buts. If Senior had been a few inches taller he would have been a belting keeper. Shame he wasn't.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 20:12:24 GMT 1
Rabchubka was playing so badly for us that Senior was better at the time.
I think most knew Rabchubka was a good keeper, but he failed to produce anything like his best form when he came here permanently, and was rightly dropped and moved on
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Post by shawsie on Mar 20, 2009 20:12:26 GMT 1
How welll would holdsowrth do on the left wing. I'd suggest holdsowrth at right back does better than flynn on the wing - same thing isn't it? Is this the same holdsworth who started his career as a full back and out of c200 games for the club has played 150ish at right back??!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 20:26:48 GMT 1
Shawsie has a point specialun. Regardless of where you think Holdsworth's best position is, he is perfectly comfortable at right back, has been for years. The fact he had a great season in midfield doesn't make him any less capable at right back, and his poor form this season cannot be put down to him 'playing out of position', because he has has several good seasons playing there.
It certainly can't be compared to Flynn playing on the wing where he was clearly very uncomfortable.
I hope Holdsworth signs a new deal, and I think we should try and move Flynn on, but it is a credible argument to say that Flynn hasn't spent much time in the position he is comfortable in, and regardless of how good Holdsworth is in central midfield, that shouldn't detract from the fact that by his standards (and I mean his standards playing right back) he has not had his best season. An out of form player is an out of form player whatever position he plays in, so we couldn't assume that Holdsworth could play in midfield tomorrow and immediately rediscover his form of last season.
I must add Holdsworth has been far from terrible, and certainly not our worse player this year, he's done OK. He just hasn't reached is usual level of performance consistantly enough.
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