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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jun 19, 2009 13:57:54 GMT 1
I'm sure that Lee Clark will decide on his formation and personnel through form and fitness in the upcoming pre-season and friendly matches. It is likely that HIS signings would be in pole position for starting but as he has shown with Ainsworth and to a lesser extent Werling he will not be afraid to leave them out if they are not performing. If our centre backs repeat last season's form then I believe Nathan will just get the nod over Butler, but if Nathan returns to the form of a couple of years ago then I'm sure Butler will start alongside P.Clarke. My biggest gripe with Nathan is his inability to pass the ball to a free fullback, or midfielder who is showing for the ball within 10 or 15 yards, all too often he switches to his Beckenbauer/Hoddle mentality in his belief that he can put a 60yd pass on a sixpence and consequently 8/10 times the ball is won by the opposing full back/centre back or rolls for the goalie to pick up. Sorry Doc, you need to watch the games more closely and not get involved in the 'Nathan Clarke - hoooooooooof' accusations with all the other sheep!!! Yes he does look for the Hollywood ball- sometimes it comes off sometimes it doesn't, but at least he is willing to try and has the ability!!! Watch next season who comes and takes the ball off Smithies the majority of the time, playing it through midfield as often if not more than he tries the 'hoof' ball!!! Remember when he was injured last season and Lucketti came in!!?? It coincided with us playing our worst football under Clark as we lost the option to play out through the back with neither CL or Butler able to fulfill this role!! Like I say have a close look or alternatively stand up, scream hoof, and shout obsenities whilst spitting and going red in the face as many other seem to do!!! I have watched Nathan his entire career and from the early days he has and repeatedly no matter which manager he has played for been guilty of ignoring the shorter higher option pass for the longer lower option attempt. At no point have I accused him of 'hoofing it', he can and does play it short I am saying he should do it more because we lose possession far too often when there are easier options available, sometimes there are not and the 'hoof' as you describe it can be counting as a clearance, it is when he has time and space he should pick the better option. I'm sorry but we will continue to disagree if you think sometimes work/sometimes don't isnt occasionally work/frequently don't. As for your last paragraph - if you think I attend Town matches to "stand up, scream hoof, an shout obsenities whilst spitting and going red in the face" it is quite obvious we are not on the same page.
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htafc
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Post by htafc on Jun 19, 2009 14:00:39 GMT 1
I DON'T CARE WHO IS GOING TO BE ON BENCH. ALL I KNOW WHO EVER IS PLAYING WILL HAVE TO BE PLAYING WELL OR THEIR WILL LOSE THEY PLACE IN STARTING 11 Good point!!! And as well as having competition for places, we now seem to have some steal and bite in midfield to protect the defence.......something we've not had for years!!!!!!!! thought i put caps to be direct as straight to the point
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Post by mattyterrier2k8 on Jun 19, 2009 14:10:35 GMT 1
n clarke is light years better than butler imo n its nowt to do with local sentiment because im not a big fan of n clarke but imo hes better than butler who last season i thought was poor,his distribution and positioning are shocking and yes n clarke is prone to mistakes but butler last season in 1 game i ran out of fingers counting how many he made in a game
butler really scares me and doesnt fill me with confidence at all so id go for n and p clarke at the back
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Post by vileda on Jun 19, 2009 14:10:53 GMT 1
Dont you dare have a go at Nathan Clarke you'll be put on the naughty step by Captain Slapper.
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midge
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Post by midge on Jun 19, 2009 14:12:40 GMT 1
Sorry Doc, you need to watch the games more closely and not get involved in the 'Nathan Clarke - hoooooooooof' accusations with all the other sheep!!! Yes he does look for the Hollywood ball- sometimes it comes off sometimes it doesn't, but at least he is willing to try and has the ability!!! Watch next season who comes and takes the ball off Smithies the majority of the time, playing it through midfield as often if not more than he tries the 'hoof' ball!!! Remember when he was injured last season and Lucketti came in!!?? It coincided with us playing our worst football under Clark as we lost the option to play out through the back with neither CL or Butler able to fulfill this role!! Like I say have a close look or alternatively stand up, scream hoof, and shout obsenities whilst spitting and going red in the face as many other seem to do!!! I have watched Nathan his entire career and from the early days he has and repeatedly no matter which manager he has played for been guilty of ignoring the shorter higher option pass for the longer lower option attempt. At no point have I accused him of 'hoofing it', he can and does play it short I am saying he should do it more because we lose possession far too often when there are easier options available, sometimes there are not and the 'hoof' as you describe it can be counting as a clearance, it is when he has time and space he should pick the better option. I'm sorry but we will continue to disagree if you think sometimes work/sometimes don't isnt occasionally work/frequently don't. As for your last paragraph - if you think I attend Town matches to "stand up, scream hoof, an shout obsenities whilst spitting and going red in the face" it is quite obvious we are not on the same page. The last sentence had a smiley winky thing next to it....lighten up!!! * (* note once again use of smiley winky thing!) Not sure where you are coming from re your occassionally sometimes point!!?? Are you saying he shouldn't try the long ball in case it doesn't come off!!?? I note you have picked at my reply carefully but not commented on the situation when NC was out last year!!? How do you feel CL and Butler did in his absence or indeed Mirfin or any other CB in the last few years!!?? OR is NC the only CB you have a 'gripe' with over their distribution!!??
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Post by CaptainHart on Jun 19, 2009 14:13:03 GMT 1
I think CB is the position that should be least changed. I would imagine that LC knows what his preferred starting line-up is and I expect the CB pairing to be tested to destruction before he changes it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 14:13:26 GMT 1
Nathan Clarke has been the most consistent player at town over the last two seasons. He is cutting out the errors from his game and his distribution has also improved. His reading of the game is excellent and this issomething a lot of people miss.You seem him make an easy interception or a tackle but don't appreciate waht he has done to get there and see it first.
Butler is a decent enough understudy at this level but he is extremly slow and made a lot of errors last season that cost us goals.
I would be very suprised if anyone can arrgue that Clarke cost us more goals than Butler last season.
Nathan Clarke is one of the better centre backs at this level and would be someone i wouldn't rush to replace if we go up to the championship.
It will be Clarke and Clarke at the start of next season in my opinion and that is the right call.
ALl this 'hoof ball' and 'calamity' stuff is just bollocks.
I always find it interesting to talk to mates who support different clubs and either come along to see town or support the opposition and get their opinion on outr squad. I can honestly say of all those conversations i have had over the past couple of seasons Nathan Clarke has featured heavily as one of our better players.
Maybe if people dropped this anti academy bias they would appreciate some of the talent we already have at this club; Nathan Clarke, Collins and Berrett for example.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 19, 2009 14:24:05 GMT 1
So I have a 'fetish' because out of a very long list of academy graduates I rate 3 of the best of them from the last 10 years who've all won various POTS awards yeah, right. Are you now critisisng Nathan Clarke for only playing for Town? Fine reward for loyalty that is- 'hes still here so he can't be much good' If you're reading this shawsie- THIS is what I mean! ;D Suppose Pilkington must be gash then if he only came here, Or Peter Clarke, Kay, Roberts, Simpson etc. surely if they were any good they wouldn't be signing for a middling L1 club like Town then? No ones showing 'bitterness' towards replacements- Its about commenting on what you actually see, not what your clouded, pre-conceived mind thinks its seeing. Nathan Clarke is clearly a much better CB than Butler, despite everyone assuming he wouldn't be this time last year ( and he is one of the best at this level!). Hes a better tackler, stronger in the air, and a MUCH better passer. How he rates against peter Clarke is still to be seen despite what you think. Put it this way, without having seen him play more than 2 or 3 times, had we just signed Nathan Clarke from Southend, I'd bet anything you'd be saying what a fantastic signing it is, better than we have, just what we need, etc ;D
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vin
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Post by vin on Jun 19, 2009 14:32:44 GMT 1
I think Clark has said that the 3 new signings will strengthen the spine of the team. That won't happen if they are sat on the bench. so it looks like clarks thinking it will be P.Clarke + another.
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Jun 19, 2009 15:11:16 GMT 1
Butler isn't a very strong player in the air. sure hell beat a small striker as youd expect but put up against any decent sized 'target-man' he struggles badly. It makes me laugh how people automatically asume a new signing is better than who we already have like britishlegion has. he may well be but at this stage hes just another L1 centre back. Its the same assumption as when Werling would definately be better than Williams or Skarz, or Ainsworth would definately be better than Cads. Nathan Clarke's one of the best in this division. Maybe Peter Clarke is too. IF he turns out to be even better, we'll have done very well. It'll be Clarke and Clarke anyway. I know I'm wasting my time as once you've made your mind up on a favourite nothing will change that BUT it makes me laugh how YOU automatically assume any new signing is worse than your favourites. Our defence was shocking last year and despite individually looking good on occasion Nathan Clarke must take some of the blame for this along with everyone else. I personally think Nathan is one of those deceiving players, who everyone applauds for a great last gasp tackle but ignores the fact his own bad position / lack of concentration led to the situation that required him to make such a good recovery. Sadly he can't recover every situation. In no way do I blame him solely for our defensive problems over the years but as a player at the heart of the defence you can't ignore his contribution to our problems. He's been paired with many centre backs and other than Page didn't seem to suit any of them. I'm amazed you actually claim he doesn't sweep tho. I'd actually say (as a big complement!) that he is an excellent sweeper and the best way to utilise him is as the sweeper alongside a strong dominant centre back. I'd hoped Peter Clarke would be this strong centre back but not knowing enough about him to judge him who knows? Slating Butler doesn't really address Nathan's own short comings either. So neither of them are perfect, we know that.
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Sosa
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Post by Sosa on Jun 19, 2009 16:34:54 GMT 1
We aren't going to sign a team who finished above us player of the season, offering a contract he couldn't turn down to sit on the bench. Your fetish with the local lads is really starting to cloud all judgment you make. We aren't going to sign anybody and guarentee them a place in the side. In my opinon Peter Clarke has been brought in as a replacement for Butler. By the sounds of it hes a similar type of player, but hopefully better. We already have one of the best CBs in this division.It seems we've paid out a lot to hopefully get in another one to partner him. How many times have you seen Peter Clarke Play? Exactly, so the asumption hes better than nathan clarke just doesn't stack up. This time last year people ( like you perhaps) were all saying both Lucketti AND Butler would be our 2 CBs as they were both 'automatically' better than Nathan Clarke. They were all proved totally wrong! Fetich with local lad? What, like I have with Mirfin,Tom Clarke, Young, Hardy,McAliskey,Brown,Akins,Broadbent,Ahmed,Boothy Don't talk shite. I'm even one of the very few who've critisised Smithies on here. Contradiction there slapper. Mirfin and Brown are from Sheffield. Ahmed is from Burnley. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Dell12 on Jun 19, 2009 16:45:35 GMT 1
I think we have to be realistic here. We're a League One club and for that reason we're not going to get Premier League players. It's about weakness reduction. Page it would seem was a 'hard man' who certainly got the best out of Clarke and if rumours are true would have to the best out of Peter Clarke too.
Perhaps playing both Clarke's together isn't really an option, although only Clark will know this.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 19, 2009 16:57:07 GMT 1
Butler isn't a very strong player in the air. sure hell beat a small striker as youd expect but put up against any decent sized 'target-man' he struggles badly. It makes me laugh how people automatically asume a new signing is better than who we already have like britishlegion has. he may well be but at this stage hes just another L1 centre back. Its the same assumption as when Werling would definately be better than Williams or Skarz, or Ainsworth would definately be better than Cads. Nathan Clarke's one of the best in this division. Maybe Peter Clarke is too. IF he turns out to be even better, we'll have done very well. It'll be Clarke and Clarke anyway. I know I'm wasting my time as once you've made your mind up on a favourite nothing will change that BUT it makes me laugh how YOU automatically assume any new signing is worse than your favourites. Our defence was shocking last year and despite individually looking good on occasion Nathan Clarke must take some of the blame for this along with everyone else. I personally think Nathan is one of those deceiving players, who everyone applauds for a great last gasp tackle but ignores the fact his own bad position / lack of concentration led to the situation that required him to make such a good recovery. Sadly he can't recover every situation. In no way do I blame him solely for our defensive problems over the years but as a player at the heart of the defence you can't ignore his contribution to our problems. He's been paired with many centre backs and other than Page didn't seem to suit any of them. I'm amazed you actually claim he doesn't sweep tho. I'd actually say (as a big complement!) that he is an excellent sweeper and the best way to utilise him is as the sweeper alongside a strong dominant centre back. I'd hoped Peter Clarke would be this strong centre back but not knowing enough about him to judge him who knows? Slating Butler doesn't really address Nathan's own short comings either. So neither of them are perfect, we know that. It makes me laugh how people see what they expect to see in a post without reading it properly! Where do i 'automatically assume any new signing is worse than my favourites.'?? I must have said about 5 times how we'll have to wait and see how good Peter Clarke is! How if he turns out to be better then Nathan we'll have made a great signing! All Ive done is compare NC to Butler, and said I think PC has been brought in as a replacement for Butler. (We'll see if Im wrong) and pointed out how some assume any incoming player is automatically better than what we have! And they do, and quite often they're wrong- Werling for Williams, Ainsworth for cadamarteri, Craney for Colins etc etc Our defence had some bad days but it also had plenty of very good days so to say itwas 'shocking' seems to be a touch of selective viewing. for example,was it shocking in the 2nd halves against peterborough and Leeds when we came under intense pressure and held out reasonably comfotably? I didn't claim he doesn't sweep.I said he isn't a sweeper. All CBs cover behind their partner when their partner attacks the ball. What I meant was Clarke doesn't just drop off and let butler attack all the first balls does he. they both go for it depending on where it is ,with the other covering behind.
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Post by shawsie on Jun 19, 2009 20:07:00 GMT 1
So I have a 'fetish' because out of a very long list of academy graduates I rate 3 of the best of them from the last 10 years who've all won various POTS awards yeah, right. Are you now critisisng Nathan Clarke for only playing for Town? Fine reward for loyalty that is- 'hes still here so he can't be much good' If you're reading this shawsie- THIS is what I mean! ;D Suppose Pilkington must be gash then if he only came here, Or Peter Clarke, Kay, Roberts, Simpson etc. surely if they were any good they wouldn't be signing for a middling L1 club like Town then? No ones showing 'bitterness' towards replacements- Its about commenting on what you actually see, not what your clouded, pre-conceived mind thinks its seeing. Nathan Clarke is clearly a much better CB than Butler, despite everyone assuming he wouldn't be this time last year ( and he is one of the best at this level!). Hes a better tackler, stronger in the air, and a MUCH better passer. How he rates against peter Clarke is still to be seen despite what you think. Put it this way, without having seen him play more than 2 or 3 times, had we just signed Nathan Clarke from Southend, I'd bet anything you'd be saying what a fantastic signing it is, better than we have, just what we need, etc ;D Thanks for bringing me into this slapps!!! For once i actually agree with you re nathan! He is a good solid player who last season managed better consistency than for several years and who hopefully with better midfield and defensive players alongside him will flourish again next term! Not sure i agree re one of best centre backs at this level though - if he was i think bigger and more highly placed clubs would have come sniffing big time - quality centre backs are at a premium throughout the leagues and whilst i think he has the talent to perform at championship level, his consistency levels over the last 2/3 yrs may indicate otherwise to many scouts and managers.
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Post by thrice on Jun 19, 2009 20:27:49 GMT 1
During this period, Clark identified Clarke(having played Southend!)as someone who, when he cleared a ball it stayed cleared and that is the reason for signing him!! For me this has been one of our main problems. We haven’t had a commanding defender in the true sense of the word for years & years. All too often our centre halfs are happy to simply get a head or foot to the ball. All that this does is keep the ball in play in our danger zone and all too often we have then been out battled to the second ball and left in the........ Simply getting a bit on it is not good enough, you have to get rid. We all want to see a Beckenbaur at the back but that can wait until we have shown the necessary steel to keep the clean sheets that bring results at any level. I dont care which two of the centre halfs do it just get it done.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 22:06:54 GMT 1
Slaps(apart from the sweeper bit)/midge/Donnieb have this absolutely bang on. How absolutely anybody can say Butler is better or even better in the air than Clarke must have watched last season with their eyes closed for me. Now I accept that everyone is entitled to their opinion but I'm entitled to think that anyones opinion of Butler being the premier defender is utter bollocks. I like Nathan Clarke as a player and think that in the last 18 months he has cut out the frustrating 1 mistake (on avg) per game which has cost us goals and is becoming one of the better centre backs in this division - it's L1 ffs there are no Beckenbaurs - He still has holes in his game though... Andy Butler on the other hand to me has been a disappointment. He came with a decent reputation: - He'd had a good season in the Championship with Scunny and some fans were sad to see him go unlike Goodwin. - Jose Mourinho once described him as premier class in the cup game against Chelsea. - He was offered apparent big money to sign etc... - He also fit the Stan mould of getting promoted from this division previously. All looked rosey in the garden with him apparently being the big defender we needed to win the 1st ball and a bit of steel and strength! It's turned out completely different... Firstly when we realised he didn't quite fit the mould as he only played 6 games when Scunny were promoted and was a reserve... Him and Lucketti were a disaster at the back. Uncomfortable on the ball, a severe lack of organisation and communication and there movement was deplorable... Our defence shored up somewhat when Nathan Clarke came into the side and then we thought we were going to see what we'd always wanted - a dominant leader and header of the ball alongside the natural reader and sweeper in Clarke. But early on it was apparent we were still conceding from headers scored by target men and easily to boot... Millwall away & Northampton at home to boot and Northampton should have had 3 or 4 as Butler was getting beaten in the air with ease... Stan then twigged (for once) and switched things around and had Nathan marking the target man against Leicester at home and he did a good job of frustrating Howard who was lucky to stay on the field after elbowing Clarke in frustration after getting no change from him all afternoon. Sadly Clarkes good work was undone by a daydreaming Butler who's lack of pace and 3 yard head start on Fryatt didn't matter as the ball was plonked over his head and he lost Fryatt who scored. When Gerry took over Butler played quite well as the left centre back and had a good spell and hit a peach of a ball to help set up the goal in the win at Southend. However, when we went back to 442 under LC he tried Butler as the marker of the target man and it failed spectacularly again away at Leicester. Since then Clarke has taken every target man since and Butler has swept. 5 games can highlight Butlers pathetic (for his size) aerial ability and they are: Hartlepool away - Skarz got roasted three times by Brown and Butler got beat 3 times in the air - one goal he even had no one to jump against and still lost... Clarke was crap in this game too. Crewe away - All 3 goals Butlers fault. We won;t count the one where Pope disposessed him and left him on his face. The other 2 - the first goal he got beaten in the air for the knock down and the 3rd was another utterly pathetic limp leap when he flicked the ball backwards under no pressure to Donaldson who over head kicked in. Leicester away - All 4 goals came from Howard beating Butler in the air. Bristol Away - Unable to even outmuscle and outjump 5ft Joe Kuffour ffs... Brighton Home - Butler loses the first header which lead to Owusu's equaliser. That's 11 goals in 5 games he's either fully or partly accountable for which is absolutely horrific in my eyes. And that's just aerially - on the ground he's been responsible for more and has been caught with the ball over the top. In my view Andy Butler is not good enough for a team who want to play at the top end of League 1 and is not good enough to play for us. So for all those who think Butler is better - I've given you some examples - go watch the highlights. I bet Clarke hasn't been at fault for that many goals in the air for the past 2 years let alone 5 games. If you still think Butler is better in the air then I worry for you
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Post by thrice on Jun 19, 2009 22:21:22 GMT 1
Slaps(apart from the sweeper bit)/midge/Donnieb have this absolutely bang on. How absolutely anybody can say Butler is better or even better in the air than Clarke must have watched last season with their eyes closed for me. Now I accept that everyone is entitled to their opinion but I'm entitled to think that anyones opinion of Butler being the premier defender is utter bollocks. I like Nathan Clarke as a player and think that in the last 18 months he has cut out the frustrating 1 mistake (on avg) per game which has cost us goals and is becoming one of the better centre backs in this division - it's L1 ffs there are no Beckenbaurs - He still has holes in his game though... Andy Butler on the other hand to me has been a disappointment. He came with a decent reputation: - He'd had a good season in the Championship with Scunny and some fans were sad to see him go unlike Goodwin. - Jose Mourinho once described him as premier class in the cup game against Chelsea. - He was offered apparent big money to sign etc... - He also fit the Stan mould of getting promoted from this division previously. All looked rosey in the garden with him apparently being the big defender we needed to win the 1st ball and a bit of steel and strength! It's turned out completely different... Firstly when we realised he didn't quite fit the mould as he only played 6 games when Scunny were promoted and was a reserve... Him and Lucketti were a disaster at the back. Uncomfortable on the ball, a severe lack of organisation and communication and there movement was deplorable... Our defence shored up somewhat when Nathan Clarke came into the side and then we thought we were going to see what we'd always wanted - a dominant leader and header of the ball alongside the natural reader and sweeper in Clarke. But early on it was apparent we were still conceding from headers scored by target men and easily to boot... Millwall away & Northampton at home to boot and Northampton should have had 3 or 4 as Butler was getting beaten in the air with ease... Stan then twigged (for once) and switched things around and had Nathan marking the target man against Leicester at home and he did a good job of frustrating Howard who was lucky to stay on the field after elbowing Clarke in frustration after getting no change from him all afternoon. Sadly Clarkes good work was undone by a daydreaming Butler who's lack of pace and 3 yard head start on Fryatt didn't matter as the ball was plonked over his head and he lost Fryatt who scored. When Gerry took over Butler played quite well as the left centre back and had a good spell and hit a peach of a ball to help set up the goal in the win at Southend. However, when we went back to 442 under LC he tried Butler as the marker of the target man and it failed spectacularly again away at Leicester. Since then Clarke has taken every target man since and Butler has swept. 5 games can highlight Butlers pathetic (for his size) aerial ability and they are: Hartlepool away - Skarz got roasted three times by Brown and Butler got beat 3 times in the air - one goal he even had no one to jump against and still lost... Clarke was crap in this game too. Crewe away - All 3 goals Butlers fault. We won;t count the one where Pope disposessed him and left him on his face. The other 2 - the first goal he got beaten in the air for the knock down and the 3rd was another utterly pathetic limp leap when he flicked the ball backwards under no pressure to Donaldson who over head kicked in. Leicester away - All 4 goals came from Howard beating Butler in the air. Bristol Away - Unable to even outmuscle and outjump 5ft Joe Kuffour ffs... Brighton Home - Butler loses the first header which lead to Owusu's equaliser. That's 11 goals in 5 games he's either fully or partly accountable for which is absolutely horrific in my eyes. And that's just aerially - on the ground he's been responsible for more and has been caught with the ball over the top. In my view Andy Butler is not good enough for a team who want to play at the top end of League 1 and is not good enough to play for us. So for all those who think Butler is better - I've given you some examples - go watch the highlights. I bet Clarke hasn't been at fault for that many goals in the air for the past 2 years let alone 5 games. If you still think Butler is better in the air then I worry for you That is quite persuasive stuff. Can you offer an argument to defend his apparent inability to judge when an opponent is actually in an offside position ;D?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 22:33:26 GMT 1
Clarke or Butler? On Clarke - nope, he has holes in his game... One of them is that he's almost the opposite of a no nonsense defender. He's a nonsense defender! Hopeful offside claims, Ronald Koeman style balls and leaving the defensive line to intercept a ball not in your favour are things that make him very good when they come off or on the occasion they don't (mostly in the past) highly frustrating.
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htafc
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Post by htafc on Jun 19, 2009 22:52:33 GMT 1
Butler is capable of playing awsome on his day ie Leeds (a) and some other times aswell but Andy Butler and Nathan has had it easy because we have had no decent competition for centre back place s(don't count lucketti)and this leads to them slacking off a bit. Im sure all our defence will tighten up. We will have a competitive team and places will be under threat. If the players has similar abilty it come to who wants it more. Therefore cutting out mistakes
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Jun 19, 2009 22:54:58 GMT 1
Butler can go missing, hes a decent defender but for me it has to be Peter and Nathan as first choice, unless we play 3 centre backs ! Butler on the bench as backup !
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 20, 2009 0:57:12 GMT 1
If we played 3 CBs ( which i don't for one minute think we will) then it would be hard to argue against berrett having the 3rd sweeper role he did so well in under gerry Murphy.
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Post by CaptainHart on Jun 20, 2009 10:17:29 GMT 1
If we played 3 CBs ( which i don't for one minute think we will) then it would be hard to argue against berrett having the 3rd sweeper role he did so well in under gerry Murphy. Or even Clarke³
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Post by specialun on Jun 20, 2009 13:38:19 GMT 1
As terrible as this board likes to think n clarke and butler are, since stan left, in the games they started together we conceded just over 1 goal a game.
In fact, if you expand that record over the 46 games of a season, it was the 3rd/4th best record in the league.
Clearly terrible.
What they lacked was competition and quality cover - There were still too many mistakes against pacy attacks and Butler had a couple of shockers in the latter half of the season, but the record overall was good, with room for improvement.
Nathan's inury post stockport said a lot - 10 goals conceded in the 5 games he missed. Lack fo quality in cover.
Not the case this season whoever is the top 2. It will be decided in pre season, I'd guess Nathan and Peter Clarke would be favourite starters.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 20, 2009 15:56:40 GMT 1
Agree totally specialun. A lot seem to think our defence was awfull last season but the stats just don't back that up. They had a few real off days along the way ( like most teams do) but they were very few and far between. In general Clarke and Butler formed a good strong partnership. When it was broken through injury the difference was clear to see. Like every other time you assess last years team ,it has to be done taking into account the fact we had absolutely bugger all up front. Every point we got was hard won for that reason as we could never 'put teams away' no matter how dominant we had been. If our midfield didn't score the goals to win the game we were struggling big time and this put a lot of pressure on the back 4 that needn't have been there. P Clarke 'should' be a better option than butler and Kay 'should' be a better holding midfielder in front of them than Goodwin. Those 2 players plus having mobile strikers on the pitch 'should' make what was already a reasonable defence into a formidable one.
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Post by pozza on Jun 20, 2009 16:41:46 GMT 1
It will be Clarke (N) & Clarke (P) next season.
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jun 20, 2009 17:02:16 GMT 1
Might it not depend on if P Clarke is left or right footed?
IMO Nathan is adequate, but nowhere near one of the best CBs in the division - over the last 5 years we have looked way too soft at the back, & the one consistent part of that defence is Nathan
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Post by pozza on Jun 20, 2009 17:23:50 GMT 1
Might it not depend on if P Clarke is left or right footed? I dont see what difference that would make
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Post by Tez on Jun 20, 2009 17:25:11 GMT 1
IMO it doesn't matter if you're right or left footed as a centre back. It's not like it's a left footed player playing right back. The positions in the middle and either foot can do the business.
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jun 20, 2009 17:37:35 GMT 1
Might it not depend on if P Clarke is left or right footed? I dont see what difference that would make It's not essential but I prefer a pairing to have a naturally left & right together, as tackling back with your natural foot is much easier than with your weaker one. If both are right this can make a difference
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Post by thrice on Jun 20, 2009 18:17:08 GMT 1
As terrible as this board likes to think n clarke and butler are, since stan left, in the games they started together we conceded just over 1 goal a game. In fact, if you expand that record over the 46 games of a season, it was the 3rd/4th best record in the league. Clearly terrible. What they lacked was competition and quality cover - There were still too many mistakes against pacy attacks and Butler had a couple of shockers in the latter half of the season, but the record overall was good, with room for improvement. Nathan's inury post stockport said a lot - 10 goals conceded in the 5 games he missed. Lack fo quality in cover. Give over its a bit much to blame our shocking defensive record on Stan and those that did not offer any decent cover. And to then point towards a hypothetical good record. The season has been played out judge them on the 46 fixtures because that determines where you finish. Our defensive record last season was dire (and the season before that) and it needs sorting if we are going to achieve anything next season.
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