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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 20, 2009 18:17:28 GMT 1
I don't see it makes much difference for centre backs if they're both right footed. A striker will take note of each individual and ,if he can, attack him on his weaker side. Anyway, they're professional footballers! if they can't tackle using their left foot they shouldn't have got to that level. N Clarke is COMFORTABLY one of the best at L1 level. To say he isn't is not only ignoring what a good player he is, but also vastly over-exaggerating the quality of the others IMO.
Not including the 3 new signings ,cos I haven't seen enough/any of them to form an opinion, i think we have 5 players who I think will make the jump to Championship football comfortably. N Clarke, Pilkington, Collins, Roberts and Smithies.
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Post by benhomly on Jun 20, 2009 18:51:33 GMT 1
This argument might be academic by the start of the season anyway, it appears the silly bugger has just gone to Mexico for his holidays!!
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Post by thrice on Jun 20, 2009 18:59:29 GMT 1
This argument might be academic by the start of the season anyway, it appears the silly bugger has just gone to Mexico for his holidays!! Have a safe trip specialun ;D.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jun 20, 2009 19:58:11 GMT 1
I don't see it makes much difference for centre backs if they're both right footed. A striker will take note of each individual and ,if he can, attack him on his weaker side. Anyway, they're professional footballers! if they can't tackle using their left foot they shouldn't have got to that level. N Clarke is COMFORTABLY one of the best at L1 level.To say he isn't is not only ignoring what a good player he is, but also vastly over-exaggerating the quality of the others IMO. Not including the 3 new signings ,cos I haven't seen enough/any of them to form an opinion, i think we have 5 players who I think will make the jump to Championship football comfortably. N Clarke, Pilkington, Collins, Roberts and Smithies. His current form made him the best centre half at the club last season, but early last Season (2007/8) pre Page and the season before we saw him make gaffe after gaffe after gaffe frequently these gaffes were converted by the opposition. In fact at that time I was annoyed at Gerry for giving him a contract whilst he was out injured - if Town had made a Page type signing the season before then I'm sure Nathan would have been jettisoned and Mirfin would still be at the club. Keep up the good work Nathan and don't let the standards slip IMO getting better but IMO NOT one of the best in this division last season.
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Post by specialun on Jun 20, 2009 20:49:10 GMT 1
As terrible as this board likes to think n clarke and butler are, since stan left, in the games they started together we conceded just over 1 goal a game. In fact, if you expand that record over the 46 games of a season, it was the 3rd/4th best record in the league. Clearly terrible. What they lacked was competition and quality cover - There were still too many mistakes against pacy attacks and Butler had a couple of shockers in the latter half of the season, but the record overall was good, with room for improvement. Nathan's inury post stockport said a lot - 10 goals conceded in the 5 games he missed. Lack fo quality in cover. Give over its a bit much to blame our shocking defensive record on Stan and those that did not offer any decent cover. And to then point towards a hypothetical good record. The season has been played out judge them on the 46 fixtures because that determines where you finish. Our defensive record last season was dire (and the season before that) and it needs sorting if we are going to achieve anything next season. Its too simplistic to look at the season as one. It was like two separate teams. The one under stan which was lying 16th and relegation threatened and the one under murphy/clark which was a top 8 side. Don't get me wrong, both needed improving. But you can't ignore the fact that after stan left, Clarke and Butler played together in all but 5 games. I know you don't like stats, but its a stat, it is a fact. (1) Stan v post stanUnder stan: P18 Conceded 31 i.e. 1.72 goals conceded a game (79/league season) Post stan: P31 Conceded 39 i.e. 1.26 goals a game (58/league season) Now as I say, the record after stan left was much improved, but still needs improving if we are to be a top 6 side. We agree on that. But in my world, half a goal a game is quite a big difference/improvement - 23 goals a season. (2) Clarke and ButlerUnder stan: P8, conceded 15 i.e. 1.875/game - 86 goals/league season Post stan: P26, conceded 29 i.e. 1.12/game - 51 goals/season So what?The point I'm making is that the defensive record after stan left was far superior to when he was in charge - half a goal a game. It still needs improving. Under murphy/clark, in the games Clarke and Butler were paired together we conceded 1.12 goals/game. That would be 51 a season. Only 4 teams conceded less than 51 goals in the season (Leicester, MK Dons, Leeds and Tranmere) - 2 of the 3 promoted teams conceded more than 51. So they weren't really *that* bad were they? Of course there are other major factors - Smithies, Fazackerly etc and I accept its not quite as simple as saying this would happen in a full season. What we saw was when Nathan got injured the cover wasn't there and the competition to compete wasn't there. Weh he missed 5 games, we conceded 10 goals. Next season, we will have 3 centre backs competing - As I keep saying, its the first 18 that get you promoted, not the first XI. Next season, both are looking better.
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Post by thrice on Jun 20, 2009 21:16:20 GMT 1
Yeah we both agree that we must do better . I love a good stat and appreciate the input you give, but only when it suites me. I especially enjoyed the one that showed that we won a good majority of games when Worthy was used as a very very late impact sub ;D. I still think that we make too many excuses for the players though, namely Stan. The Stan & post Stan players were effectively the same bunch especially at the back. They must ultimately take responsibility for the poor record over the season. Lets hope its better next season and we are totting up consecutive clean sheets rather than half a goal a game improvements on what many would judge as our worst spell in years.
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Post by specialun on Jun 20, 2009 22:04:19 GMT 1
Yeah we both agree that we must do better . I love a good stat and appreciate the input you give, but only when it suites me. Don't I know it ;D Lets hope its better next season and we are totting up consecutive clean sheets rather than half a goal a game improvements on what many would judge as our worst spell in years. I think we'd all agree on that!
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Post by robbielad on Jun 20, 2009 22:13:21 GMT 1
Butler is a meathead! he must start, i feel Peter Clarke and Butler, but we will miss Nathan. But as long as we dont concede as many goals as last season, i dont care.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2009 23:49:34 GMT 1
Butler is a meathead! he must start, i feel Peter Clarke and Butler, but we will miss Nathan. But as long as we dont concede as many goals as last season, i dont care. The Same meathead who got outmuscled by Joe Kuffour who could be Gary Colemans stunt double
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 21, 2009 0:41:11 GMT 1
I don't see it makes much difference for centre backs if they're both right footed. A striker will take note of each individual and ,if he can, attack him on his weaker side. Anyway, they're professional footballers! if they can't tackle using their left foot they shouldn't have got to that level. N Clarke is COMFORTABLY one of the best at L1 level.To say he isn't is not only ignoring what a good player he is, but also vastly over-exaggerating the quality of the others IMO. Not including the 3 new signings ,cos I haven't seen enough/any of them to form an opinion, i think we have 5 players who I think will make the jump to Championship football comfortably. N Clarke, Pilkington, Collins, Roberts and Smithies. His current form made him the best centre half at the club last season, but early last Season (2007/8) pre Page and the season before we saw him make gaffe after gaffe after gaffe frequently these gaffes were converted by the opposition. In fact at that time I was annoyed at Gerry for giving him a contract whilst he was out injured - if Town had made a Page type signing the season before then I'm sure Nathan would have been jettisoned and Mirfin would still be at the club. Keep up the good work Nathan and don't let the standards slip IMO getting better but IMO NOT one of the best in this division last season. Maybe gerry knew he needed a differnt partner than mirfin to get the best out of him. He was right. Poor as he was, he was still way better than mirfin at that time. Its turned out to be a good decision by Murphy anyway. You've lost me a bit with your argument to be honest. he was a bit ropey early the season before last ( id agree) ,so that stops him being one of the best last season, even though hes just had a great season
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