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Post by hueypnewton on Dec 18, 2007 19:34:05 GMT 1
When was the last time a graduate from the Town academy burst into the first team and made everyone take notice? Stead maybe? Just looking at Ritchie's ideal first eleven, and Clarke, Mirfin and Holdsworth appear to be the only regulars? By anyone's reckoning, with God knows how much invested each year, thats a pretty poor return. We seem to be churning out average League One/Two players in other words..?
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Post by kamaraisking on Dec 18, 2007 19:40:15 GMT 1
add booth worthington who i might add weve really missed also wouldnt class holdsworth as average
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Post by hueypnewton on Dec 18, 2007 19:52:33 GMT 1
Well the Premiership and Championship scouts are hardly banging down the door anymore, are they? Also, we didn't have an academy when Booth was a youngster. Worthington, ok - but is he a Ritchie first choice? Kamara, Schofield, Brandon, Glennon, Williams, Cads, Beckett, Sinclair, Wallwork...
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Post by terrierng on Dec 18, 2007 19:55:21 GMT 1
thing is kik i think holdsworth is average too just he is having a good season in a mostly poor team,and though boothy came through the ranks it wasnt an academy then,although i suppose there is no differance,thing is if we keep ronnie boy,and worthys fit,playing your mate and either scofield,cadders,brandon where will holdsworth fit in<if not right back,imo where he is better>
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Post by paulorossi on Dec 18, 2007 20:00:27 GMT 1
How many clubs are producing premiership standard player? Think with all the foreigners i'd say none! Town's academy is average. Crewe are always named when good academies are talked about but who have they produced in the last couple of years?
A good un will come along soon, maybe Skarz but i don't think he's good enough from what i've seen.
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n7t
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Post by n7t on Dec 18, 2007 20:10:11 GMT 1
By anyone's reckoning, with God knows how much invested each year, thats a pretty poor return. Au contraire, its pretty good value for around £38k or so? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 20:38:30 GMT 1
for Crewe see Luke Varney now at Charlton. Sold him for a few million in the close season. Nicky Maynard is well thought of and they have a midfielder as well who is decent who's name I don't recall... Think he's the captain. The decent young players who are going to make it play for the first team at age 18 in any team and they take their chances - we imo hold onto players for far too long such as Paul Scott who made his debut at about 24 or something daft. Players that are in their early 20's now and aren't close to the first team (There are 2 that immediately spring to mind for me but I don't think one of them will be here come the end of January) Should be released or loaned out for long periods to the league below to see if they can cut it. If they can't they just halt the progress of the 18 year olds currently on the books who aren't getting chances because we're too persistent. You can argue the persistence with McAliskey has halted Lucas Akins development in the reserves perhaps...
I think AR needs to be far more ruthless than Jacko on this and I'm sure he's got more of an idea having been the academy boss at Barnsley and Leeds(I think??) but needs time to sort through the club due to contracts.
I think Alex Smithies will be the next big transfer to go - He looks a fantastic talent to me.
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Post by Richard1986 on Dec 18, 2007 20:46:59 GMT 1
regardless of who we have as manager I think this club will remain in a bit of a lull for a while until we get another decent batch of youngsters through from the academy. Give it a season or two?
To me that pretty much justifies the academies existence and if anything we should be investing more into it
just imagine if we managed to get it running so that the quality of player coming through every year are the standard that got us promoted a few years back
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Post by LordyOfTheManor on Dec 18, 2007 20:47:55 GMT 1
luke varney didn't come from the academy at crewe. he was signed from Quorn (who?) for £50,000. but ive researched quite throughly and have seen that some of their best players (i.e. neil lennon, ashley ward, geoff thomas, etc.) were actually signed after being released or being in the reserves at top clubs.
others however (i.e. dean ashton, seth johnson, danny murphy, robbie savage etc) have come through the academy side, but its the scouting system at the club which is brilliant. they pick up players who have been released from nearby premiership sides and give them the opportunity of first-team football at crewe. their scouts search a greater distance and don't expect young starlets to fall out of the sky.
some however have been lucky. seth johnson was spotted playing in south wales when crewe were on pre-season. ashton was from swindon originally as well.
but it is safe to say this though. the quantity of youth players has increased since we were given academy status, but the quality certainly hasn't. RANT OVER!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 20:58:51 GMT 1
Lordofthemanor - interesting re Varney. Perhaps they liked the way he makes those sausages and burgers ;D
Didn't Robbie Savage play for Man Utd as a striker? I'm pretty sure he started there and was released...
But your spot on with the scouting - I've heard negative vibes about our scouting network even within Huddersfield. We've had a look at a couple of Man Utd boys in the summer (marsh and Mullen was it?) but to me they're potentially too old and we should have a portfolio on every player at every club from every age which needs to be looked at and maintained.
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Post by terrierng on Dec 18, 2007 21:07:29 GMT 1
i was talking today to a guy at work who ran teams a few yrs back,junior teams that is,and i told him i didnt think young lads were getting picked up,his answer was that he often rang town about players but no one ever came ,he also said that other coaches would tell the same story.
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Post by specialun on Dec 18, 2007 21:58:28 GMT 1
As i've said before, holdworth, mirfin, booth, are not products of the academy.
Holdsworth, mirf etc were part of the academy in their final years, but given the academy was only set up in 99/00 and the likes of worthy broke through in 02/03, its hardly fair to judge the academy on the current players who were part of the old system for most of their youth years.
Come back in 2 years time when the year of skarz, eastwood, bailey etc and the following years intake of broadbent, smithies etc - these are the real products of the academy product, ie players who joined the academy at a young age when it was the academy.
Any judgement before then is not complete
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jackosgal
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Post by jackosgal on Dec 19, 2007 0:29:24 GMT 1
luke varney didn't come from the academy at crewe. he was signed from Quorn (who?) for £50,000. but ive researched quite throughly and have seen that some of their best players (i.e. neil lennon, ashley ward, geoff thomas, etc.) were actually signed after being released or being in the reserves at top clubs. others however (i.e. dean ashton, seth johnson, danny murphy, robbie savage etc) have come through the academy side, but its the scouting system at the club which is brilliant. they pick up players who have been released from nearby premiership sides and give them the opportunity of first-team football at crewe. their scouts search a greater distance and don't expect young starlets to fall out of the sky. some however have been lucky. seth johnson was spotted playing in south wales when crewe were on pre-season. ashton was from swindon originally as well. but it is safe to say this though. the quantity of youth players has increased since we were given academy status, but the quality certainly hasn't. RANT OVER! Agreed. (You could add David Platt to the first list as well of course). |
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 19, 2007 1:52:24 GMT 1
i was talking today to a guy at work who ran teams a few yrs back,junior teams that is,and i told him i didnt think young lads were getting picked up,his answer was that he often rang town about players but no one ever came ,he also said that other coaches would tell the same story. Ive been told similar things by fathers of kids who were picked up by the academies at Wednesday and barnsley. Not sure what sort of scouting system we have in place.If indeed we have one at all anymore. Pace is so important in the modern game but when was the last time we brought through a player with any genuine pace? And why do we persist in giving contracts to players such as Young,Senior,Ahmed,McAliskey,Hardy etc when its painfully obvious they'll never be above league 2 standard, if not conference. When we finally get someone who a) knows something about football, and b) cares about HTFC, in charge ,maybe one of the first things they'll look at is the poor performance of the academy. It should be a great assett for a club like Town, but all its become is a very cheap way of packing out the 1st team squad with poor quality or far too young players, so the likes of davy and Watson can claim to be providing the manager with a decent sized squad. |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Dec 19, 2007 11:03:10 GMT 1
I think the pressure is on the academy to get their next big sale, I expect that will be Smithies.
My expectation is that the academy produces one first teamer a season of Championship potential, with one of Premiership potential every five years (we're a bit behind on that second criteria)
Year One,
Stead and Worthy
Year Two
Nathan Clarke and Holdsworth
Year Three
Mirfin
Year Four
Collins
Year Five
(no one, Hand was the best of that group)
Year Six
Tom Clarke
Year Seven
Skarz (although Eastwood has excellent pedigree as well)
Year Eight
Smithies and Broadbent
Year Nine
The best intake in years by all accounts so lets see how many make it
I would also expect one of Racchi, Berrett, Bailey, Malcher, Akins, Killock... to suprise a few as players all develop at different rates (according to my dad Frank Worthington looked poor when he first broke through, certainly Stead struggled that first year and Booth had asthma problems) and I don't see the harm in giving 18 years a couple of years on cheap contracts to develop
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Post by terrier67 on Dec 19, 2007 17:48:52 GMT 1
Its a bit worrying if the academy are worried about getting their next sale. Surely the point of the academy is to bring through talent for our team, not to sell on. Yes I admit there is a commercial aspect, and Smithies sounds too goo to hold onto, but let's have them in the side for a year or two first - like Stead, so we get some value in terms of points out of them and then sell them for more money when they have proved they can perform. That's got to be better than selling for a quick buck only to bring in aging, slower journeymen on loan.
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Post by kamaraisking on Dec 19, 2007 19:05:50 GMT 1
SLAPPS WE HAVE TWO SCOUTS MAN AND WOMAN BUT CANT REMEMBER THIER NAMES OF HAND
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Post by n7t on Dec 19, 2007 19:37:40 GMT 1
Come back in 2 years time when the year of skarz, eastwood, bailey etc and the following years intake of broadbent, smithies etc - these are the real products of the academy product, ie players who joined the academy at a young age when it was the academy. Any judgement before then is not complete Note that Eastwood should NOT be considered a product of the Town academy. He's only been in it for 18 months or so. |
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numbers
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Post by numbers on Dec 19, 2007 21:20:47 GMT 1
I fancy a sarnie after reading that...
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Post by holdsworth99 on Dec 20, 2007 15:03:28 GMT 1
anyone heard of any players that are worth taking notice of from the first years in the academy. Didnt they take on 15 or something?
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terrier67
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Post by terrier67 on Dec 20, 2007 15:10:12 GMT 1
The problem with the academy is that we now expect kids from the academy to come and make an impact in the first team immediately. Surely the academy should be bringing on 4 or 5 youngsters a season, 1 or 2 good enough to train with the first team and 2 or 3 to go out on loan to Blue Square or League Clubs and come back in a year with some experience. Academy lads should be brought on by the senior pros and established players over a couple of years. Because we started out HAVING to play the lads after administration we seem to think that the young'uns can carry us all the way to the premiership.
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Post by Richard1986 on Dec 20, 2007 16:42:33 GMT 1
Academy lads should be brought on by the senior pros and established players over a couple of years. Because we started out HAVING to play the lads after administration we seem to think that the young'uns can carry us all the way to the premiership. Gotta agree with that, had clark or mirfin gone a few years ago to a better club they would be much better players for it imo But at the moment they are going nowhere with this club and I dont see that changing unless we bring in some better more experienced defenders to bring them on a bit further . As soon as these kids do come out of the academy (youth system or what ever) they impress for a bit but soon stagnate and end up playing to a similar maybe lower level than the rest of the side |
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