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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 19:56:41 GMT 1
I don't believe you can judge Clark's financial impact without including wages. Do you think he attracted (and kept) these players because of his genial manner? It's one and the same as spending on fees. Wages and transfer fees are seperate entities. Lee Clark did not introduce Town's wages policy. What he spent on signing players we will have more than recouped in terms of current squad value and players sold. That is the argument being discussed and disputed by one person here. Nor did he introduce the fee policy. He worked within financial structures. These structures were more generous than most of his peers at other clubs, and entailed us losing £4m-5m per season, while clubs like Brighton and Peterborough achieved better outcomes with greater constraints. To pick out only squad value is to isolate one small part of the whole. The squad value and income from players sales are at the level they are (at least partly) because of the investment in player wages made by the board. He's either responsible for all of it, or none of it. It can't be both.
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Post by thrice on Jun 26, 2012 20:01:28 GMT 1
You know full well what you've highlighted and you know full well you can't argue against it. Goodbye. Forgive me, I thought that I had made it crystal clear that I was talking about finance in general & even sought to clarify that when you went off on one of your manic tangents. It must be all the hate & bile clouding my reasoning : :
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Post by terrierng on Jun 26, 2012 20:09:57 GMT 1
Add up the the value of the squad he left plus the money for Pilks, Pelts, McDermott etc and subtract what he spent on players and get back to me eh. Why would you do that? Just check out the accounts, that is what they are for! 2009 £4.00m loss 2010 £4.75m loss 2011 £4.10m loss 2012 Dont think they are out yet but expect a similar trend. Of course this includes all operating costs but you can bet that the vast majority of it is accounted for by costs associated directly with the playing staff. and this is why your argument doesnt hold water,you surely cant blame clark for all of it,which it sounds like you are. he left us ,,a lot better off with the value and potential value of the squad than when he joined us.maybe more luck than judgement but facts are facts.
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Jun 26, 2012 20:13:23 GMT 1
i wish him all the very best...I thin he will make a top manager one day
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:14:49 GMT 1
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Post by midlandsnumberone on Jun 26, 2012 20:17:53 GMT 1
Just Rhodes would do ta, were not evil enough to take all your top players. Ian Bennett is a legend, will he feature regularly? Adored at the blues, was even clapping us during the game when he played for Sheff Utd against us in a league cup tie at Bramall lane. saw you at the lane this year.hope you bring that support up here too bud, they were really on form! as was your side.you re getting a young hard working gaffa.not perfect but knows his football and a player.been a bit to intense for his own good but definately a bright prospect in the game. : : That was a great day out, I was in the top tier which for some strange reason they wanted to keep half empty, we sold our 4100 within 2-3 days so could have easily have took the full 5000 or so. I don't think I heard the home support once.. Apart from them singing about Greasy chip butties with help from the tannoy. Last season under Hughton our away support was very good, we would have flogged all our tickets for your place. It all depends on how were doing by our game at the Galpharm I suppose, i've got a feeling it'll still be well attended no matter how were doing though. What's your allocation? Oh and Clark has officially been announced as manager now, never seen that one coming I'm worried they'll decide to televise our visit to your gaff now
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Post by thrice on Jun 26, 2012 20:18:20 GMT 1
Why would you do that? Just check out the accounts, that is what they are for! 2009 £4.00m loss 2010 £4.75m loss 2011 £4.10m loss 2012 Dont think they are out yet but expect a similar trend. Of course this includes all operating costs but you can bet that the vast majority of it is accounted for by costs associated directly with the playing staff. and this is why your argument doesnt hold water,you surely cant blame clark for all of it,which it sounds like you are. he left us ,,a lot better off with the value and potential value of the squad than when he joined us.maybe more luck than judgement but facts are facts. Dont get me wrong I am not blaming Clark alone for those figures but nor would I seek to absolve him of his responsibility for what I would imagine is a considerable chunk of it (transfer fees & wages). After spending all that money and leaving us in the third tier how were we any better off?. I do not understand how anyone can look at those figures and try to make a financial argument for anyone associated with them?
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Post by alexdire on Jun 26, 2012 20:19:52 GMT 1
Heard somebody on real radio (North East) The Legends show this evening. The "Legends" were saying that it was ridiculous he was sacked and just shows how useless our owners are. The Town fan who rang in agreed with them!
Another load of media pundits who haven't ever seen Town and don't know what they're talking about. Although they're playing to a thick Geordie audience.
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Post by bluedream80 on Jun 26, 2012 20:19:53 GMT 1
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on Jun 26, 2012 20:23:55 GMT 1
He's taking over a group of players that got to the play offs last season so in that respect as long as he is able to keep them all together he is lucky. It's not a big squad which will probably help him because he won't be able to drop anyone for 4 or 5 weeks when they have a bad game and could be forced in to creating a settled side. It'll be interesting to see how much he learnt from his time with us and what his approach will be like there.
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Post by terrierng on Jun 26, 2012 20:26:56 GMT 1
and this is why your argument doesnt hold water,you surely cant blame clark for all of it,which it sounds like you are. he left us ,,a lot better off with the value and potential value of the squad than when he joined us.maybe more luck than judgement but facts are facts. Dont get me wrong I am not blaming Clark alone for those figures but nor would I seek to absolve him of his responsibility for what I would imagine is a considerable chunk of it (transfer fees & wages). I do not understand how anyone can look at those figures and try to make a financial argument for anyone associated with them? which would include clibbens,jarvis and mr hoyle. what your saying is the club is badly run then? the losses wouldnt be that high if we wasnt shafted on rent and got some income on match days,a different argument,unless you blame clark for that too? and the losses would be more of a worry if it wasnt for hoyle : : also if the losses wernt managable rhodes would be off and we wipe out the debt,though are transfers included in your figures?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:28:56 GMT 1
Why would you do that? Just check out the accounts, that is what they are for! 2009 £4.00m loss 2010 £4.75m loss 2011 £4.10m loss 2012 Dont think they are out yet but expect a similar trend. Of course this includes all operating costs but you can bet that the vast majority of it is accounted for by costs associated directly with the playing staff. and this is why your argument doesnt hold water,you surely cant blame clark for all of it,which it sounds like you are. he left us ,,a lot better off with the value and potential value of the squad than when he joined us. maybe more luck than judgement but facts are facts.And there's the rub! Hypothetically, let's pretend he never bought Rhodes. Does his financial legacy still stand up? 'But he did!', I hear you cry. Ok... was that luck or judgement? If it was all about judgement, then Brum are one lucky club to have secured Clark's services. If it was just luck that Jordan has proved to be a prolific goalscorer (at League One level, anyway)... then Clark still has it all to do. The Jury's out.
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Post by LordyOfTheManor on Jun 26, 2012 20:31:11 GMT 1
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Post by bluedream80 on Jun 26, 2012 20:31:53 GMT 1
I'm pleased for the bloke tbh, he lives and breaths football, he will be working his bollocks off now to do the best he can before the season is starting ..... and when it starts obviously !! who knows what will happen
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Post by terrierng on Jun 26, 2012 20:32:23 GMT 1
reece,i arnt arguing about clarks credentials ,i am saying he cant be blamed for all our losses.
though he did buy and sell pilks and pelts,discounting wages which i doubt he had any input in i bet he wont be far off breaking even with actual fees.
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Post by bluedream80 on Jun 26, 2012 20:39:32 GMT 1
: : : :
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:39:41 GMT 1
A tweet from Danny Hoyle before confirmation.
So happy for Lee Clark if these rumours are true.
Seconded.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:40:30 GMT 1
reece,i arnt arguing about clarks credentials ,i am saying he cant be blamed for all our losses. though he did buy and sell pilks and pelts,discounting wages which i doubt he had any input in i bet he wont be far off breaking even with actual fees. Wasn't arguing with you, terrierng. I was just using your phrase about 'luck or judgement' to make a point that success and failure is a fine line.
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johnny_b
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Post by johnny_b on Jun 26, 2012 20:42:08 GMT 1
saw you at the lane this year.hope you bring that support up here too bud, they were really on form! as was your side.you re getting a young hard working gaffa.not perfect but knows his football and a player.been a bit to intense for his own good but definately a bright prospect in the game. That was a great day out, I was in the top tier which for some strange reason they wanted to keep half empty, we sold our 4100 within 2-3 days so could have easily have took the full 5000 or so. I don't think I heard the home support once.. Apart from them singing about Greasy chip butties with help from the tannoy. Last season under Hughton our away support was very good, we would have flogged all our tickets for your place. It all depends on how were doing by our game at the Galpharm I suppose, i've got a feeling it'll still be well attended no matter how were doing though. What's your allocation? Oh and Clark has officially been announced as manager now, never seen that one coming [glow=red,2,300]I'm worried they'll decide to televise our visit to your gaff now[/glow] That'll be another 80 grand he'll have made for us :dance:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:42:22 GMT 1
From the Lee Clark interview: - "What can we expect from you as a manager Lee?" - "Very buoyant, very passionate... possibly animated.... maybe that might be one of things that has changed since Huddersfield, as you get older you look at things, aspects of your management." Sounds to me that he's has a good hard look at the way he was managing and has grown from the experience. Good stuff. www.bcfc.com/page/player/Home/0,,10412~2823734,00.html
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Post by bluedream80 on Jun 26, 2012 20:43:02 GMT 1
reece,i arnt arguing about clarks credentials ,i am saying he cant be blamed for all our losses. though he did buy and sell pilks and pelts,discounting wages which i doubt he had any input in i bet he wont be far off breaking even with actual fees. Wasn't arguing with you, terrierng. I was just using your phrase about 'luck or judgement' to make a point that success and failure is a fine line. certainly is, ask sheff Utd fans ? ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:43:18 GMT 1
When you look at their squad, while being a bit thin on the ground, it is filled with quality and should be play offs even with a transfer embargo
Listen to his interview had me cringing a fair bit
ETC ETC ETC :suicide:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:45:22 GMT 1
From the Lee Clark interview: - "What can we expect from you as a manager Lee?" - "Very buoyant, very passionate... possibly animated.... maybe that might be one of things that has changed since Huddersfield, as you get older you look at things, aspects of your management." Sounds to me that he's has a good hard look at the way he was managing and has grown from the experience. Good stuff. www.bcfc.com/page/player/Home/0,,10412~2823734,00.html He would often say things like that whilst he was here. Nothing ever change though Proof will be in the pudding. He has always been a good talker, that skill got him our job and probably this job but there is a lot more to football management than having the gift of the gab
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Post by terrierng on Jun 26, 2012 20:47:07 GMT 1
When you look at their squad, while being a bit thin on the ground, it is filled with quality and should be play offs even with a transfer embargo Listen to his interview had me cringing a fair bit ETC ETC ETC they can still buy players though,they just have to be ratified by the f.a first.
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sudbury
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Post by sudbury on Jun 26, 2012 20:49:01 GMT 1
T he aquad is worth nothing until soneone is sold and when contracts run out, it certainly is worth nothing. Just seen Clarks interview at Birmingham - he managed to keep calm, but how long before he gets up tight when questioned after a match.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:49:16 GMT 1
From the Lee Clark interview: - "What can we expect from you as a manager Lee?" - "Very buoyant, very passionate... possibly animated.... maybe that might be one of things that has changed since Huddersfield, as you get older you look at things, aspects of your management." Sounds to me that he's has a good hard look at the way he was managing and has grown from the experience. Good stuff. www.bcfc.com/page/player/Home/0,,10412~2823734,00.html He would often say things like that whilst he was here. Nothing ever change though Proof will be in the pudding. He has always been a good talker, that skill got him our job and probably this job but there is a lot more to football management than having the gift of the gab That's all you need on an internet forum though.
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PaulDaltonFanClub
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Post by PaulDaltonFanClub on Jun 26, 2012 20:49:16 GMT 1
Well I have heard it all now!
"beating off competition from Alan Curbishley, Phil Brown and Roy Keane"! Christ....Alan Curbishley's stock should be worth a lot more than that!
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jun 26, 2012 20:49:57 GMT 1
and this is why your argument doesnt hold water,you surely cant blame clark for all of it,which it sounds like you are. he left us ,,a lot better off with the value and potential value of the squad than when he joined us. maybe more luck than judgement but facts are facts.And there's the rub! Hypothetically, let's pretend he never bought Rhodes. Does his financial legacy still stand up? 'But he did!', I hear you cry. Ok... was that luck or judgement? If it was all about judgement, then Brum are one lucky club to have secured Clark's services. If it was just luck that Jordan has proved to be a prolific goalscorer (at League One level, anyway)... then Clark still has it all to do. The Jury's out. He also targetted Danny Graham, Ricky Lambert and Lukas Jutkiewitz all of whom have gone on to greater things than Huddersfield Town (so far). I do believe he has the ability to spot a player and we all know that there have been more than a few duff ones too but overall when talking profiting from transfer dealings it is in my mind one of his better qualities. So far we have had McDermott, Peltier and Pilkington and likely Rhodes to follow who we have sold at a profit. In the past, after GTF, Stewart, Marsden, Maskell, Roberts, Shearer, David Burke and Mally Brown I am struggling to find players who we have bought and subsequently sold at a profit. I am sure there will be more but that list is a short one since 1980.
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Post by thrice on Jun 26, 2012 20:50:04 GMT 1
reece,i arnt arguing about clarks credentials ,i am saying he cant be blamed for all our losses.though he did buy and sell pilks and pelts,discounting wages which i doubt he had any input in i bet he wont be far off breaking even with actual fees. But given those losses it is crazy to try to make any kind of financial argument for anyone associated with them. Of course that includes Deano, Clibbens, Jarvis and anyone else you care to mention. You could say the club has been run badly but I would not because it was clearly our strategy to spend our way out of the third tier and we have finally achieved that. I would not be congratulating ourselves for any financial prudence on the back of it though!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 20:52:35 GMT 1
T he aquad is worth nothing until soneone is sold and when contracts run out, it certainly is worth nothing. Just seen Clarks interview at Birmingham - he managed to keep calm, but how long before he gets up tight when questioned after a match. Dunno, but getting "up tight" after a match didn't stop a lot of successful managers. Do i need to name them? Edit ......As far as the squad goes, how much has it had to do with getting us into the championship and increased revenue? Priceless.
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