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Post by terrierpark on Jun 26, 2012 21:04:03 GMT 1
Why did Faz leave Town? It all seemed to go downhill admittedly steadily,once he had left and if he gets him at brum i suspect they will do well.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jun 26, 2012 21:06:04 GMT 1
Why did Faz leave Town? It all seemed to go downhill admittedly steadily,once he had left and if he gets him at brum i suspect they will do well. Where do you get this from??? We finished higher, with more points, both seasons AFTER Faz left
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Post by sunflower on Jun 26, 2012 21:15:09 GMT 1
Fk me is this still going..
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 26, 2012 21:26:35 GMT 1
and this is why your argument doesnt hold water,you surely cant blame clark for all of it,which it sounds like you are. he left us ,,a lot better off with the value and potential value of the squad than when he joined us. maybe more luck than judgement but facts are facts.And there's the rub! Hypothetically, let's pretend he never bought Rhodes. Does his financial legacy still stand up? 'But he did!', I hear you cry. Ok... was that luck or judgement? If it was all about judgement, then Brum are one lucky club to have secured Clark's services. If it was just luck that Jordan has proved to be a prolific goalscorer (at League One level, anyway)... then Clark still has it all to do. The Jury's out. What i was thinking. What 3 pipes is saying is correct- the value of the squad he left plus the value of the likes of pilks, pelts, is more than we spent in transfer fees over his time as manager. But its a long way from telling the whole story. the vast bulk of that value is one player, and we don't even know the value he'll go for yet. All figures for players we bought and sold are guesses, so could well be miles out. You have to include signing on fees. A free transfer doesn't exist- the player ( and agent) get huge fees, sometimes equalling a decent transfer fee anyway. Clark got a poor % of his transfers right IMO. A small handfull have gone up in value and enough to make 3 pipes correct. Remove one player in Rhodes and i doubt its still the case though. The bulk of players we payed a fee for will have gone down in value. my opinion of his transfer record was that it was pretty scattergun. He fired so many bullets he hit something. Don't think he'll be able to do that at brum. he'll have to improve what hes got , solve problems without a chequebook or find bargains. New stuff for him in other words.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 21:27:44 GMT 1
That would mean you know a heck of a lot of Town fans, personally away from this forum the Town fans i know and speak to were gobsmacked when he got the push. Wouldn't get carried away thinking the MINORITY of fans that post on here reflect the opinions of the majority. PS i'm now a Grayson fan. ;D Funny that... cos out of the eight people I go to the games with (ages ranging from 30 to 80) not one of them was surprised he was sacked and all of them were pleased as they didn't feel the football we were playing was improving... in fact, they felt it was getting worse. I was another.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 21:34:04 GMT 1
Good luck Lee Clark Time will tell if Clark leaving was the right thing to do... He didn't leave, we sacked him. And we already know it was the right thing to do, we were promoted. Plus we have a better manager at the helm, 3 promotions with 3 clubs in a relitavely short managerial career is an outstanding record.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 21:36:01 GMT 1
And there's the rub! Hypothetically, let's pretend he never bought Rhodes. Does his financial legacy still stand up? 'But he did!', I hear you cry. Ok... was that luck or judgement? If it was all about judgement, then Brum are one lucky club to have secured Clark's services. If it was just luck that Jordan has proved to be a prolific goalscorer (at League One level, anyway)... then Clark still has it all to do. The Jury's out. What i was thinking. What 3 pipes is saying is correct- the value of the squad he left plus the value of the likes of pilks, pelts, is more than we spent in transfer fees over his time as manager. But its a long way from telling the whole story. the vast bulk of that value is one player, and we don't even know the value he'll go for yet. All figures for players we bought and sold are guesses, so could well be miles out. You have to include signing on fees. A free transfer doesn't exist- the player ( and agent) get huge fees, sometimes equalling a decent transfer fee anyway. Clark got a poor % of his transfers right IMO. A small handfull have gone up in value and enough to make 3 pipes correct. Remove one player in Rhodes and i doubt its still the case though. The bulk of players we payed a fee for will have gone down in value. my opinion of his transfer record was that it was pretty scattergun. He fired so many bullets he hit something. Don't think he'll be able to do that at brum. he'll have to improve what hes got , solve problems without a chequebook or find bargains. New stuff for him in other words. How much was promotion out of division one worth though captain? This squad did it.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 26, 2012 21:56:02 GMT 1
What i was thinking. What 3 pipes is saying is correct- the value of the squad he left plus the value of the likes of pilks, pelts, is more than we spent in transfer fees over his time as manager. But its a long way from telling the whole story. the vast bulk of that value is one player, and we don't even know the value he'll go for yet. All figures for players we bought and sold are guesses, so could well be miles out. You have to include signing on fees. A free transfer doesn't exist- the player ( and agent) get huge fees, sometimes equalling a decent transfer fee anyway. Clark got a poor % of his transfers right IMO. A small handfull have gone up in value and enough to make 3 pipes correct. Remove one player in Rhodes and i doubt its still the case though. The bulk of players we payed a fee for will have gone down in value. my opinion of his transfer record was that it was pretty scattergun. He fired so many bullets he hit something. Don't think he'll be able to do that at brum. he'll have to improve what hes got , solve problems without a chequebook or find bargains. New stuff for him in other words. How much was promotion out of division one worth though captain? This squad did it. It did indeed and it will be worth millions. Isn't it a bit of a mute point to load Clark with credit for putting together the squad that went up. Hed been here over 3 years, bringing players in at the rate of 17 a season. How could it NOT have been Clarks squad that Grayson inherited? What matters is that it took a different, more accomplished, manager to get them over the finishing line, as Clark wasn't going to do it. IMO of course. It'll be very interesting to see how he copes at brum, in particular with the pressure the manager at a big club like that has. Maybe their expectation levels are low which is a great thing for him. I know if I was a brum fan, id be very worried about this appointment.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 22:15:23 GMT 1
How much was promotion out of division one worth though captain? This squad did it. It did indeed and it will be worth millions. Isn't it a bit of a mute point to load Clark with credit for putting together the squad that went up. Hed been here over 3 years, bringing players in at the rate of 17 a season. How could it NOT have been Clarks squad that Grayson inherited? What matters is that it took a different, more accomplished, manager to get them over the finishing line, as Clark wasn't going to do it. IMO of course. It'll be very interesting to see how he copes at brum, in particular with the pressure the manager at a big club like that has. Maybe their expectation levels are low which is a great thing for him. I know if I was a brum fan, id be very worried about this appointment. We will never know whether Clark would have got us over the finish line this season, all i know is the squad he built did it. He broke more records at this club in his time here than anyone else in my long lifetime. As far as Brum are concerned they have a young manager who will have learned a lot from his time here, i believe they will reap the benefits, time will tell indeed.
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Post by Scissett Terrier! on Jun 26, 2012 22:19:25 GMT 1
It did indeed and it will be worth millions. Isn't it a bit of a mute point to load Clark with credit for putting together the squad that went up. Hed been here over 3 years, bringing players in at the rate of 17 a season. How could it NOT have been Clarks squad that Grayson inherited? What matters is that it took a different, more accomplished, manager to get them over the finishing line, as Clark wasn't going to do it. IMO of course. It'll be very interesting to see how he copes at brum, in particular with the pressure the manager at a big club like that has. Maybe their expectation levels are low which is a great thing for him. I know if I was a brum fan, id be very worried about this appointment. We will never know whether Clark would have got us over the finish line this season, all i know is the squad he built did it. He broke more records at this club in his time here than anyone else in my long lifetime. As far as Brum are concerned they have a young manager who will have learned a lot from his time here, i believe they will reap the benefits, time will tell indeed. record says he wouldnt have!
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Post by 3Pipe on Jun 26, 2012 22:23:47 GMT 1
That record is broken, skips and jumps like a bad un.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 22:25:54 GMT 1
We will never know whether Clark would have got us over the finish line this season, all i know is the squad he built did it. He broke more records at this club in his time here than anyone else in my long lifetime. As far as Brum are concerned they have a young manager who will have learned a lot from his time here, i believe they will reap the benefits, time will tell indeed. record says he wouldnt have! All his record says is it's a very fine line between success and failure, if Simonsens penalty had gone in, if Smithies missed his, it would have been Lee Clarks failure instead of Graysons "more accomplished management".
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Post by thrice on Jun 26, 2012 22:30:11 GMT 1
Come on this is fucking daft now. Are we seriously contesting the fact that Simon Grayson won us promotion : : It was Grayson team from the moment he was appointed, every success & failure from that point on is his responsibility. And you think that Clark is not given enough bloody credit
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jun 26, 2012 22:39:06 GMT 1
Come on this is ****** daft now. Are we seriously contesting the fact that Simon Grayson won us promotion It was Grayson team from the moment he was appointed, every success & failure from that point on is his responsibility. And you think that Clark is not given enough bloody credit And if we had failed to get promtion thrice. Do you seriously think Simon Grayson would have been blamed for the failure, personally I wouldn't have and posted to that effect way before the playoffs started. In fact I believe and many others on here have stated that we can truly judge SG's success when he has built his own squad. But after a dodgy start the playoffs were a distinct improvement and an interim assessment would be; so far so good. IMHO I am not sure that SG is a better manager than his predecessor but he is definitely a more experienced and luckier one and that will do for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 22:39:59 GMT 1
Come on this is ****** daft now. Are we seriously contesting the fact that Simon Grayson won us promotion It was Grayson team from the moment he was appointed, every success & failure from that point on is his responsibility. And you think that Clark is not given enough bloody credit It would have been Clarks team in the event of failure though. Wouldn't it?? ;D Come on now be honest.
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Post by Scissett Terrier! on Jun 26, 2012 22:47:10 GMT 1
record says he wouldnt have! All his record says is it's a very fine line between success and failure, if Simonsens penalty had gone in, if Smithies missed his, it would have been Lee Clarks failure instead of Graysons "more accomplished management". No it would have been graysons, though he did bloody well to get us to that point with the hand he was dealt! Clarks record says he couldnt hack it, grayson record said he could and he did! good manager is larry!
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Post by thrice on Jun 26, 2012 22:50:33 GMT 1
Come on this is ****** daft now. Are we seriously contesting the fact that Simon Grayson won us promotion It was Grayson team from the moment he was appointed, every success & failure from that point on is his responsibility. And you think that Clark is not given enough bloody credit It would have been Clarks team in the event of failure though. Wouldn't it?? ;D Come on now be honest. Go back and check what I was posting when we were struggling initially under Grayson. I have not changed my tune one iota.
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Post by thrice on Jun 26, 2012 22:58:56 GMT 1
All his record says is it's a very fine line between success and failure, if Simonsens penalty had gone in, if Smithies missed his, it would have been Lee Clarks failure instead of Graysons "more accomplished management". No it would have been graysons, though he did bloody well to get us to that point with the hand he was dealt! Clarks record says he couldnt hack it, grayson record said he could and he did! good manager is larry! It would have been Grayson's responsibility and he would of failed in his objective had he not delivered promotion this season. That is the job that he was brought in to do and he delivered. And therein lies the big difference between our current & former gaffer.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 26, 2012 23:10:39 GMT 1
record says he wouldnt have! All his record says is it's a very fine line between success and failure, if Simonsens penalty had gone in, if Smithies missed his, it would have been Lee Clarks failure instead of Graysons "more accomplished management". It is a fine line when you get to play offs usually. If we'd lost the shoot out then I wouldn't have given grayson any stick and his record would still have had him as an accomplished manager. If we'd stuck with clark we wouldn't have got past MK Dons IMO. As for him being a record breaking manager here- well the long REGULAR SEASON league game record is one that I doubt we'll see broken by a Town team in our lifetimes. It ultimately got us nowhere but it was still an achievement. Whats the other one- record number of away wins- a better achievement in my book than the unbeaten one- a team could go all season unbeaten and get relegated on 46 points. was another one the record number of home draws? Must have been close. the only record he managed that actually means anything though is most money spent by a Town manager in the third division without achieving promotion- a record he set 3 years running. His well oiled publicity machine in the media can bang on about the others as much as they like, and they've probably landed him the Brum job by doing it, but it's his record of failed promotion attempts that's the only one that means anything IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 23:15:49 GMT 1
All his record says is it's a very fine line between success and failure, if Simonsens penalty had gone in, if Smithies missed his, it would have been Lee Clarks failure instead of Graysons "more accomplished management". It is a fine line when you get to play offs usually. If we'd lost the shoot out then I wouldn't have given grayson any stick and his record would still have had him as an accomplished manager. If we'd stuck with clark we wouldn't have got past MK Dons IMO. As for him being a record breaking manager here- well the long REGULAR SEASON league game record is one that I doubt we'll see broken by a Town team in our lifetimes. It ultimately got us nowhere but it was still an achievement. Whats the other one- record number of away wins- a better achievement in my book than the unbeaten one- a team could go all season unbeaten and get relegated on 46 points. was another one the record number of home draws? Must have been close. the only record he managed that actually means anything though is most money spent by a Town manager in the third division without achieving promotion- a record he set 3 years running. His well oiled publicity machine in the media can bang on about the others as much as they like, and they've probably landed him the Brum job by doing it, but it's his record of failed promotion attempts that's the only one that means anything IMO. :appl:
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Post by hellodave on Jun 26, 2012 23:24:47 GMT 1
I wonder who translated in the negotiations?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 23:25:09 GMT 1
All his record says is it's a very fine line between success and failure, if Simonsens penalty had gone in, if Smithies missed his, it would have been Lee Clarks failure instead of Graysons "more accomplished management". It is a fine line when you get to play offs usually. If we'd lost the shoot out then I wouldn't have given grayson any stick and his record would still have had him as an accomplished manager. If we'd stuck with clark we wouldn't have got past MK Dons IMO. As for him being a record breaking manager here- well the long REGULAR SEASON league game record is one that I doubt we'll see broken by a Town team in our lifetimes. It ultimately got us nowhere but it was still an achievement. Whats the other one- record number of away wins- a better achievement in my book than the unbeaten one- a team could go all season unbeaten and get relegated on 46 points. was another one the record number of home draws? Must have been close. the only record he managed that actually means anything though is most money spent by a Town manager in the third division without achieving promotion- a record he set 3 years running. His well oiled publicity machine in the media can bang on about the others as much as they like, and they've probably landed him the Brum job by doing it, but it's his record of failed promotion attempts that's the only one that means anything IMO. The one thing you can never dispute is he didn't fail this season.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 26, 2012 23:27:52 GMT 1
Fortunately our owner saw to it that he didn't have the opportunity to.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 23:31:01 GMT 1
Fortunately our owner saw to it that he didn't have the opportunity to. Very fortunate that Clarkys signings finished the job.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jun 26, 2012 23:40:35 GMT 1
hmmm, it's a bit like giving credit for Leonardo Da Vinci's masterpieces to the bloke who delivered the tubes of paint to his house.
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Post by johnny_b on Jun 26, 2012 23:45:30 GMT 1
:suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:
:suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:
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Post by tonywal on Jun 26, 2012 23:48:58 GMT 1
hmmm, it's a bit like giving credit for Leonardo Da Vinci's masterpieces to the bloke who delivered the tubes of paint to his house. You should know as an artist that paint wasn't delivered in tubes slaps back then, Paint was made with the yolk of eggs and therefore, the substance would harden and adhere to the surface it is applied to. Pigment was made from plants, sand, and different soils.
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Post by amoeba on Jun 26, 2012 23:55:44 GMT 1
Was purple made from crushing up some form of crustacean or something. Hence purple being the colour used by royalty as it was so rare.
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Post by amoeba on Jun 26, 2012 23:57:11 GMT 1
Forgot to add. Clark isn't our manager anymore so I don't give a shit what he does.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 23:59:54 GMT 1
hmmm, it's a bit like giving credit for Leonardo Da Vinci's masterpieces to the bloke who delivered the tubes of paint to his house. I'd love to see Leonardos masterpieces without the use of paint or oils ;D
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