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Post by wasp on Apr 17, 2014 17:12:10 GMT 1
It started when dean took over, then again when Clark came in, then again when robins came in
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Post by benhomly on Apr 17, 2014 17:20:50 GMT 1
I think that plan is realistic for a team with the 6th lowest attendance in the division (http://espnfc.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.2/english-league-championship?cc=5739 ) despite some of the cheapest tickets (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24014727 ) Throw in we don’t have £60m of parachute payments (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22171365 ) so just why do people think we should be top 6? Scratching my heads as to why one of the poorest supported teams with some of the smallest revenues in the league should be EXPECTED by some to mix it in the top 6 with teams whose wage bill alone is 4 times ours and get double the attendances Comparisons with Fulham who spent £20m on transfers, god knows how much on wages and appointed a high profile expensive manager are fanciful. Equally fanciful is talk of Malky MacKay or similar highly regarded managers. Such is our stock the last time we were searching for a manager one “candidate” thought he could be given it without even interview – how contemptible is that! Luckily there are examples like Blackpool and Burnley to give hope – but if you genuinely expect us to be in the top 6 … well you’re just setting yourself for disappointment I’m afraid. Dream ... absolutely, I will be as well but I don't expect it to be honest If the dream happens I’ll be delighted as any other fan, but equally if we’re finishing midtable in couple of seasons time I won’t be calling it a failure! The table i've just looked at has us down as the 8th lowest supported team but that's just being picky i suppose. However try looking at the figures a bit closer. If we averaged just another 1,700 we'd be the 11th best supported team in the division. An extra 1,700 people per home game at say an average of £18 per ticket (taking into account concessions, season ticket prices etc) would give us an extra £700k per year in our coffers. That's what at this level - 1 extra top player? I don't think that should make a massive difference personally - what's important is having a good manager and coaching team who can get the best out of the players THEY have signed. If Town had played well all season and were still 17th I don't think too many would be complaining. If it was all down to how big your crowds are and how much money you've got to spend football would be extremely boring. Oh, hang on a minute.... I don't think that anyone is saying that we SHOULD be in the top 6 but if all we can hope for is mid table mediocrity year in year out (because we're a small club with small crowds) then what's the point? Should Bournemouth stop trying in their last 4 games because they shouldn't be in that position? My point is there are plenty of clubs of a similar size/structure to us who have been in or still are in the top flight. Why should we accept mediocrity or worse?
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 17, 2014 17:53:54 GMT 1
Plans are nothing, planning is everything. Remember when Davy kept telling us he'd have us in the top 30 by 2008 ? Still not achieved that one even today! Ah, but we haven't got Ken Davy any more. That's why we're not in the top 30.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Apr 17, 2014 17:57:07 GMT 1
I probably agree with you overall (galpharm 2400's last post) but I'm not sure its much to do with work rate. I think they work as hard as they can. That we have played some cracking football at times means to me we can't be far off. Just need to blend some physicality and directness in to the team and we can play the passing game - but more purposefully. We are a small and weak side physically. I'd like us to be a big and strong side physically. It struck home to me in the Bournemouth game at their place that our midfield couldn't compete physically when pressed - so get that sorted out and off we go. Of course with Vaughan back. The "crime" this season is not having a plan B both during games and when required for some games. Perhaps we should have a 5 year plan A and a 5 year plan B :-)
I think Robins has been caught between a rock and a hard place - the hard place being the plan B signings - Lopez, Paterson and Stead. I don't really know why that occurred. Whether it was just Robins ballsing that up or Team Town ballsing it up - hope they do better this summer. If we are back in div 1 we will have to revert to plan C.
Or as my Dad used to say - a good big un is always better than a good little un.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2014 18:39:17 GMT 1
The five year plan resets itself everytime the manager fecks up and Dean goes skiing
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 17, 2014 19:03:25 GMT 1
WRT Lopez, Stead & Pato, wasn't it just that last summer we weren't in a very strong negotiating position? We didn't have much money & the only striker at the club was Kallum Higginbotham. Often, you can bide your time & only sign somebody when the right player becomes available at the right price - if we'd waited for the right player to become available at the right price then we could conceivably have started the season without anybody.
Having a 5 year plan doesn't mean that you don't take the chances when they present themselves. It doesn't mean that we aim to do nowt every year for 4 years any more than 2017/18 season is promotion, shit or bust. I took it to mean that we put the infrastructure in place to have our way of playing, from the 1st team right down to the youngest player in our academy so that players can slot in more easily. So that there is continuity. So that when a manager is replaced, we get somebody in who isn't going to go to the expense of needing to clear out & get a whole new squad in (then have him replaced before the job is finished anyway).
OK, we probably don't have the players to do that yet, & many of the current squad will have to be replaced but hopefully this will be the last clearout we have to have for quite some time. That's my take on it anyway.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Apr 17, 2014 19:28:21 GMT 1
Stead and Paterson seemed fine to me as signings on paper - but that was before I saw them on grass :-) Stead would have been a logical stand in for Vaughan and Paterson could play the second striker or even one up front by himself if Vaughan was crocked. I guess Stead was the greatest disappointment to everyone. He has just lost his legs and can't do more than 20 minutes at this level. I guess Dean wanted him and we didn't do due diligence on him!
Then in Jan maybe the thinking was - great Vaughan is going to be back shortly and we have just signed his £1mm + partner - all is good in the world.
The mistake was signing Stead in the first place which was compounded by not getting someone in on loan who could do that type of job to replace Stead in the window. We still need to get a "good" Stead in!
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Post by lancyclaret on Apr 17, 2014 20:21:09 GMT 1
Regards the poster mentioning Burnley wage bill.
Wage bill has been reduced by 40% this season from 2012/2013. That is why we have a very small squad and players like Paterson and McCann left because they would not accept new deals with wage cut.
Dean Marney and Ross Wallace both signed new deals on reduced terms.
I am sure the wage bill will increase if we reach the Premier League again but it certainly won't be excessive and will be a lot lower than a good number of Championship teams like Forest, Bolton, Blackburn, QPR (if they stay down), Wolves, Middlesbrough, Reading, Brighton, maybe a couple more.
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Post by 5kippy on Apr 17, 2014 23:00:23 GMT 1
Stead and Paterson seemed fine to me as signings on paper - but that was before I saw them on grass :-) Stead would have been a logical stand in for Vaughan and Paterson could play the second striker or even one up front by himself if Vaughan was crocked. I guess Stead was the greatest disappointment to everyone. He has just lost his legs and can't do more than 20 minutes at this level. I guess Dean wanted him and we didn't do due diligence on him! Then in Jan maybe the thinking was - great Vaughan is going to be back shortly and we have just signed his £ 1mm + partner - all is good in the world. The mistake was signing Stead in the first place which was compounded by not getting someone in on loan who could do that type of job to replace Stead in the window. We still need to get a "good" Stead in! Maybe we should be looking at taller players. Who knows we may then score from a corner!
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Apr 18, 2014 0:15:56 GMT 1
...and defend corners. We always look a lot better at it when Vaughan is in the team.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 6:15:38 GMT 1
WRT Lopez, Stead & Pato, wasn't it just that last summer we weren't in a very strong negotiating position? We didn't have much money & the only striker at the club was Kallum Higginbotham. Often, you can bide your time & only sign somebody when the right player becomes available at the right price - if we'd waited for the right player to become available at the right price then we could conceivably have started the season without anybody. Having a 5 year plan doesn't mean that you don't take the chances when they present themselves. It doesn't mean that we aim to do nowt every year for 4 years any more than 2017/18 season is promotion, shit or bust. I took it to mean that we put the infrastructure in place to have our way of playing, from the 1st team right down to the youngest player in our academy so that players can slot in more easily. So that there is continuity. So that when a manager is replaced, we get somebody in who isn't going to go to the expense of needing to clear out & get a whole new squad in (then have him replaced before the job is finished anyway). OK, we probably don't have the players to do that yet, & many of the current squad will have to be replaced but hopefully this will be the last clearout we have to have for quite some time. That's my take on it anyway. At last, somebody gets what's fully happening from top to bottom. Good post.
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Post by patfield on Apr 18, 2014 6:32:00 GMT 1
5 year plans pah, I have a plan. Why don't we not set targets as to table position etc and just try and win every game we play whether it be Leicester or Yeovil and see where it takes us.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 18, 2014 8:45:32 GMT 1
5 year plans pah, I have a plan. Why don't we not set targets as to table position etc and just try and win every game we play whether it be Leicester or Yeovil and see where it takes us. Great idea. Let's try to win! Such a simple idea, I can't think why nobody has tried that before.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 18, 2014 8:54:53 GMT 1
Problem with this 5 year plan is that we've got too bogged down in it and unable to deviate from it, it's become everything. What happens when we get to the end of the 5 years and we aren't where we wanted to be at the end of this 5 year plan? Then what, another 5 year plan?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 9:23:32 GMT 1
Problem with this 5 year plan is that we've got too bogged down in it and unable to deviate from it, it's become everything. What happens when we get to the end of the 5 years and we aren't where we wanted to be at the end of this 5 year plan? Then what, another 5 year plan? You're even slagging off the result of a plan that you have no idea yet what that result will be. So, by your thinking, all plans should be jettisoned just in case they don't come off. Unbelievable!
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 18, 2014 9:30:26 GMT 1
Problem with this 5 year plan is that we've got too bogged down in it and unable to deviate from it, it's become everything. What happens when we get to the end of the 5 years and we aren't where we wanted to be at the end of this 5 year plan? Then what, another 5 year plan? You're even slagging off the result of a plan that you have no idea yet what that result will be. So, by your thinking, all plans should be jettisoned just in case they don't come off. Unbelievable! It's a genuine question, what after the five years the plan hasn't come to fruition? 5 years, honestly, come on, there are too many variables in that period of time for the plan to be really credible. What if we get relegated, hope to good we don't but surely that's going throw a massive spanner in the works of the 5 year plan?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 9:42:42 GMT 1
You're even slagging off the result of a plan that you have no idea yet what that result will be. So, by your thinking, all plans should be jettisoned just in case they don't come off. Unbelievable! It's a genuine question, what after the five years the plan hasn't come to fruition? 5 years, honestly, come on, there are too many variables in that period of time for the plan to be really credible. What if we get relegated, hope to good we don't but surely that's going throw a massive spanner in the works of the 5 year plan? You think Dean Hoyle built a multi-million pound empire by having shit for brains? He's barely begun his football project. Give him some credit and have some faith, man!
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 18, 2014 10:25:13 GMT 1
It's a genuine question, what after the five years the plan hasn't come to fruition? 5 years, honestly, come on, there are too many variables in that period of time for the plan to be really credible. What if we get relegated, hope to good we don't but surely that's going throw a massive spanner in the works of the 5 year plan? You think Dean Hoyle built a multi-million pound empire by having shit for brains? He's barely begun his football project. Give him some credit and have some faith, man! I've never criticised him or not had any faith in him but this 5 year plan is blinding everyone a little. Like I said, genuine question, what happens at the end of the 5 year plan if it hasn't come to fruition?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 10:30:04 GMT 1
You think Dean Hoyle built a multi-million pound empire by having shit for brains? He's barely begun his football project. Give him some credit and have some faith, man! I've never criticised him or not had any faith in him but this 5 year plan is blinding everyone a little. Like I said, genuine question, what happens at the end of the 5 year plan if it hasn't come to fruition? Flexibility?
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 18, 2014 10:38:07 GMT 1
Problem with this 5 year plan is that we've got too bogged down in it and unable to deviate from it, it's become everything. What happens when we get to the end of the 5 years and we aren't where we wanted to be at the end of this 5 year plan? Then what, another 5 year plan? Have we got too bogged down in it? I don't see any evidence for that tbh mate (I don't consider our current poor run of form being evidence). A five year plan doesn't mean fannying about for 4 years & 11 months I imagine a lot of things we do won't cost much money - just reorganisation & changing the way the business does things, on and off the pitch. Some stuff won't bear fruit immediately (improvements in youth coaching implemented today won't bear fruit for a few years, but they're still worth doing). And yes, if unexpected things happen then I would hope the club can be flexible enough to adjust (although I would also expect that a lot of those things will be factored into budgets). I suppose much of it depends on how you interpret what the 5 year plan is. I imagine (& to be fair, I've nowt to back this up but my flawless intellect) is that it'll take 5 years to get the club running in the way Dean wants it run. We might get promoted before then, we might get relegated before then. We might not have left this division in either direction 10 years from now. None of that would necessarily mean that the plan had failed. My understanding is that it will take 5 years to get every faction of the club working in the same way. Training the youth players to play in a certain way that's the same style as the first team should help them to slot in to the first team more easily. You have the first team playing a certain way so that when a member of staff (be it coaching or playing) leaves, the replacement buys into what's been built already - they don't have to have a clearout & start again. OK, you can start that training today but some things will take longer to come to fruition. Getting the club running the best possible way makes the most efficient use of the resources we have, and gives us the best chance possible of success. It doesn't bring any guarantees but then, what would?
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Post by SaudiTerrier on Apr 18, 2014 10:48:27 GMT 1
Planning is generally seen as the smart thing to do in pretty much ever other aspect of life. However, when it comes to football some Huddersfield Town fans apparently favour the "fuck it, #YOLO" approach.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 18, 2014 11:06:56 GMT 1
Planning is generally seen as the smart thing to do in pretty much ever other aspect of life. However, when it comes to football some Huddersfield Town fans apparently favour the "fuck it, #YOLO" approach. Football is far far too unpredictable for a plan of 5 years, first team wise, behind the scenes I have no problems with them planning on the academy and the business side of things but fans won't tolerate any more of this shite being served up we've seen since Christmas week on week season on season, which surely impacts on anykind of long term plan.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2014 11:16:36 GMT 1
One spanner in the works of this five year plan is we have a manager who has proved he struggles and lacks the flexibility to turn things around when they start going wrong
There will be many more down turns in form over the next 4 years and it doesn't bode well that the manager has handled this first one so badly. it's not like it's his first job in management
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