Are Our Centre Backs That Bad??

[dugnet]

Getting away from the endless waffle about who will be manager and if we will sign anyone today I was looking at the highlights again from Saturday and I wondered if our defensive problems could be solely attributed to centre half?

Looking at the goals on Saturday:

1 - Radi loses the ball in the centre circle, we correctly have a high line as we are in possession but are caught on the break. We could have stepped up, and the off side looks border line but the error was losing the ball.

2 - Bunn attempts to clear but is held as he does so and only gets the ball 20 yards up the pitch. I think it is Coady who then chooses to pass back and give the ball away.

3 - Both Wallace and Lynch have "their men" but no-one picks up midfielder Andrews, despite Lynch trying to get back, and we concede a very poor goal.

4 - Lose possession when trying to get the ball forward with 2 minutes remaining - something that could happen in those circumstances.

My point is that we need to defend better as a team but there can be no doubt we need a leader at the centre of defence. All of our current centre halves (I don't include Peltier as he is not a centre half) aren't poor players but no-one leads. Peter Clarke led by example and effort but was also not a great organiser, we need that type of centre half. In truth Coady has added some much needed stability to midfield but the same in terms of character at the back would be good.

While we don't have that player I think we should support what we have, they are nowhere near as hopeless as some appear to suggest.

[galpharm2400]

its a lack of organisation whilst on the pitch. I assume Lillis has done the work during the week and before the game but it does go to ratshit every now and again, unfortunately in this division you can get japped just about everytime you balls it up.

someone has to get it organised and make sure the ludicrously amount of ball watching that goes on from Town is knocked firmly on the head. Town regularly have plenty of men back but fail to pick up one or two who are allowed a simple finish, its very, very annoying.

Organisation and concentration required after the whistle goes..wether someone can get that right with what we have is debateable.

Coady in the back 4/5 would assist our defending but would detract from the midfield, its a difficult choice but 4 goals conceded would swing it for me if I was making the calls.

[TownFanSam]

13 goals conceded in 5 league games, think that answers your question doesn't it?

[gledholt terrier]

Sept 1, 2014 12:57:11 GMT 1 TownFanSam said:

13 goals conceded in 5 league games, think that answers your question doesn't it?

To an extent.

It misses the fact that 4 of them came with a defence the likes of which you will never see again, including exposing a kid making his full debut in an unfamiliar role.

It misses the fact that we conceded 3 against a title contending team on their own patch which could easily happen with a first choice back line

It misses the fact that we had 3 different centre halfs in one game

It misses the fact that we didn't have a recognised right back at Watford with the filler in being on his debut.

Lynch/Wallace is not a good combination (Wallace should be Lynch's understudy), but its pretty much the best we have without Gerrard.

On Saturday, we didn't have a second defensive midfielder to play alongside Coady (a Peltier or Hogg) , which I think is essential for this squad.

As we stand now, we are 2 points worse off than many people would have predicted after 5 games, and it would have been 6 but for an utter incompetent.

That's not to say we don't need to strengthen, but just a bit of fortune would be welcome. Short term, Gerrard's return will help, as will replacing Dixon with Robinson (who looks to have similar qualities to Coady).

[galpharm2400]

not marking people at set pieces.. not making a challenge when you should..not reading the game at all and being caught miles out of position.

it takes into account all these factors.. luck??? you don't deserve any if you get the basics wrong, regularly..

[terrier25]

Individually the centre backs are ok but you need to defend as a unit and that needs a leader to give the instructions. Lynch isnt a leader in this sense, Wallace isnt either. It was interesting how well Wallace and St Ledger did together against Newcastle, Lynch may be a better player than St Ledger but St Ledger's constant talking and organising would make him more useful to the team than Lynch and would bring the best out of Wallace, who is showing promise this season.
If we can get someone who can communicate like St Ledger (maybe Gerrard can?) then we would do far better

[Floyds]

We were all over the place at the back on Saturday and the goals made for horrendous viewing.

I agree we need a leader, an organiser, someone who gets stuck into the other lads. Last one we had in this mould was Rob Page but that was ages ago now.

We seem too nice and when we concede goals, just shrug and accept it's one of those things. Conceding 1 goal like Saturday is bad enough, to concede 4 in that manner is inexcusable.

I know they're not easy to come by, but I think we need to bite the bullet and pay over the odds if needs be to secure one.

Even when Gerrard returns, are him and Lynch (assuming both stay fit) good enough to keep us up this season?

I doubt it personally; although as with everything, time will tell.

[Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier]

Sept 1, 2014 12:57:11 GMT 1 TownFanSam said:

13 goals conceded in 5 league games, think that answers your question doesn't it?

Everybody seems to be forgetting that the defensive problems especially in both C B positions are a carry over from last season simply because the board  failed to  them right .

[wigster]

It's all opinion of course but I do think that our centre backs are indeed that bad - Wallace is very very slow and in every match I've seen has repeatedly let his striker get the wrong side - resulting in conceding goals or a booking/sending off. He's also quite weak in the air.
Lynch has more pace but there just seems to be something wrong about his attitude - the most animated I've seen him was when he was having a go at the linesman when he'd been so easily brushed off the ball against Bournemouth. It may be that previous comments on this board that he just sees football as a job and can take it or leave it are accurate.I may be wrong and doing him an injustice but he never strikes me as someone you'd want by your side in a battle.Additionally his poor attempt at blocking the Watford player for their fourth goal shows how one footed he is.

[H7]

We have conceded the most amount of goals in England.

[TownFanSam]

Its always been an area we seem reluctant to invest in. Other than Gerrard have we actually paid a transfer fee for a defender in the last 3/4 years?

[ACW]

Sept 1, 2014 12:47:56 GMT 1 dugnet said:

Getting away from the endless waffle about who will be manager and if we will sign anyone today I was looking at the highlights again from Saturday and I wondered if our defensive problems could be solely attributed to centre half?

Looking at the goals on Saturday:

1 - Radi loses the ball in the centre circle, we correctly have a high line as we are in possession but are caught on the break. We could have stepped up, and the off side looks border line but the error was losing the ball.

2 - Bunn attempts to clear but is held as he does so and only gets the ball 20 yards up the pitch. I think it is Coady who then chooses to pass back and give the ball away.

3 - Both Wallace and Lynch have "their men" but no-one picks up midfielder Andrews, despite Lynch trying to get back, and we concede a very poor goal.

4 - Lose possession when trying to get the ball forward with 2 minutes remaining - something that could happen in those circumstances.

My point is that we need to defend better as a team but there can be no doubt we need a leader at the centre of defence. All of our current centre halves (I don't include Peltier as he is not a centre half) aren't poor players but no-one leads. Peter Clarke led by example and effort but was also not a great organiser, we need that type of centre half. In truth Coady has added some much needed stability to midfield but the same in terms of character at the back would be good.

While we don't have that player I think we should support what we have, they are nowhere near as hopeless as some appear to suggest.

Agree with all of that - particularly the parts about defending as a team and desperately needing a leader at the back.

[ACW]

Sept 1, 2014 12:57:11 GMT 1 TownFanSam said:

13 goals conceded in 5 league games, think that answers your question doesn't it?

Too simplistic. We defend as a team - the defence deserve some criticism, but not all of it.

[galpharm2400]

agreed, we usually have more than enough shirts knocking about as the goals go in..

[shawsie]

Sept 1, 2014 13:38:34 GMT 1 Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier said:

Sept 1, 2014 12:57:11 GMT 1 TownFanSam said:

13 goals conceded in 5 league games, think that answers your question doesn't it?

Everybody seems to be forgetting that the defensive problems especially in both C B positions are a carry over from last season simply because the board  failed to  them right .

The board?!
Why employ a manager or coach then?!
It was the bloke who lost the plot who is to blame here - the centre backs individually are average, as a unit poor imo!
Thats because robins thought crooks was a centre back in a 3, never worked on getting a proper balance across the back line, worked with dixon on positioning, thought pelts was also a centre back etc etc need i go on!
The board got one thing hopelessly wrong this summer - thinking robins could deliver improvement when his intransigence and stubborn tactics got a right shoeing on the opening day as many predicted having seen the continuation of a non working system at oldham and scunny in pre season. Surely there must have been signs behind the scenes that all wasnt well - it was plainly evident at oldham that morale was low and some looked disinterested!
The current defensive mess rests firmly at robins door - he must have rubber stamped an extension for the hugely inconsistent lynch and spent the summer bringing in midfielders and a right back who he then played at centre back!! The more i think about it the madder i get re robins .............................nearly made wadsworth look animated and then scuttled away unable to hack the heat he had heaped on himself with crap tactics and formation!

[goodshot (FGS)]

Sept 1, 2014 12:47:56 GMT 1 dugnet said:

Getting away from the endless waffle about who will be manager and if we will sign anyone today I was looking at the highlights again from Saturday and I wondered if our defensive problems could be solely attributed to centre half?

Looking at the goals on Saturday:

1 - Radi loses the ball in the centre circle, we correctly have a high line as we are in possession but are caught on the break. We could have stepped up, and the off side looks border line but the error was losing the ball.

2 - Bunn attempts to clear but is held as he does so and only gets the ball 20 yards up the pitch. I think it is Coady who then chooses to pass back and give the ball away.

3 - Both Wallace and Lynch have "their men" but no-one picks up midfielder Andrews, despite Lynch trying to get back, and we concede a very poor goal.

4 - Lose possession when trying to get the ball forward with 2 minutes remaining - something that could happen in those circumstances.

My point is that we need to defend better as a team but there can be no doubt we need a leader at the centre of defence. All of our current centre halves (I don't include Peltier as he is not a centre half) aren't poor players but no-one leads. Peter Clarke led by example and effort but was also not a great organiser, we need that type of centre half. In truth Coady has added some much needed stability to midfield but the same in terms of character at the back would be good.

While we don't have that player I think we should support what we have, they are nowhere near as hopeless as some appear to suggest.

That's a fair assessment of the goals conceded (think it was Butterfield's backpass not Coady's for the second). However, that sort of glosses over a lot of poor defending which could have led to other goals! They really did look as though they would score/create every time they went forward in the first half. Simply our defenders individually couldn't cope with the pace and power of Forestieri and Deeney. The only way you can get over that is by having better defenders imho. For the first 30 minutes or so the team as a whole struggled to cope with Watford's system and that of course didn't help the struggling defenders. Their defenders were not too clever against Vaughan, Scannell and Bunn either!

We need to improve every aspect of our defending - we need to improve the individuals, we need to improve their teamwork and organisation and we need to improve their training methods so daft mistakes like the 3rd crucial goal don't happen - at least with the regularity with which they seem to afflict Town.

Any centre half who can mark Deeney out of the game wouldn't be playing in the Championship.