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Post by Skint Terriers on Oct 31, 2014 3:15:26 GMT 1
whether we keep him or try get rid I always always love this guy. The passion he showed and he was genuinely excited about joining us turning down bigger wages from other clubs. Has always give his all I really hope we can get him fit and playing for a full season.
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Post by 3Pipe on Oct 31, 2014 7:06:20 GMT 1
You can do it Vaughany.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Oct 31, 2014 8:30:55 GMT 1
I concur, we are dreaming if we expect to see him play again for Town. Yeah, let's pay him what he'd earn upfront and have a 0% chance of him playing for us again, rather than the same amount over a longer period and potentially get some games out of him. Cracking idea...............
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Post by fredcarno1 on Oct 31, 2014 10:10:54 GMT 1
We are in effect paying him up now with him not playing. Being a bit of a pessimist we may get 4 or 5 games out of him for the rest of the season and let him go at the end of the season. We won't get a striker with as much ability to replace him but at the end of the day a club like ours can't carry a wage like his going forwards with the amount of games he would play.
Maybe Holt on massively reduced terms on next year or am I being deluded ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 10:20:41 GMT 1
I would love to know our pay policy .In my line of work long term illness was three months full pay ,six months half pay,three months full pay and then termination of employment if unable to continue.Still a lot of our budget. Let's wait and see what transpire at St.Georges but it is really not looking good .I'd be delighted to be proved wrong. Also whilst I'm on the subject I have said at times he was a luxury player but can we be more respectful to the player and say we may need to release him rather than "get rid".
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Post by detox on Oct 31, 2014 10:24:17 GMT 1
i guess one of the reasons we can attract players like Grant Holt and Mark hudson is that we look after the players when they may get long term injuries.
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Post by Floyds on Oct 31, 2014 10:26:33 GMT 1
When you "pay someone off", you wouldn't pay 100% of their salary for the remaining length of the contract.
Instead, you'd negotiate to pay (say) 75% of it.
This benefits us because he (if this decision was made) is unlikely to contribute again this season.
And him, because he'd be a free agent and able to train with, and then sign for, another club.
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Post by Porrohman on Oct 31, 2014 10:31:44 GMT 1
When you "pay someone off", you wouldn't pay 100% of their salary for the remaining length of the contract. Instead, you'd negotiate to pay (say) 75% of it. This benefits us because he (if this decision was made) is unlikely to contribute again this season. And him, because he'd be a free agent and able to train with, and then sign for, another club. And injure his wrist signing the contract, putting himself out for 4 months Sent from my GT-I9505 using proboards
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 31, 2014 10:31:49 GMT 1
i guess one of the reasons we can attract players like Grant Holt and Mark hudson is that we look after the players when they may get long term injuries. Good point detox - what goes around comes around. Vaughan (59) has already played a similar number of games for Town as some of our past heroes that have been talked about in the All Time 11 thread: Derek Parkin (61), Bob McNab (68), Barry Horne (64). I'm hoping he will go on and make more appearances for Town than all of those.
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Post by In sooth- - on Oct 31, 2014 10:32:51 GMT 1
I despair with some of our supporters.
"get rid"
Would you like some of us to say that to your boss about you.
Fortunately most of us are human beings as someone further up mentioned.
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Post by Floyds on Oct 31, 2014 10:39:16 GMT 1
In fairness, if someone who was working for me didn't contribute anything productive for going on 12 months, who was on a fixed term contract that ended in May 2015, I know what I'd be doing with them!
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DannyG
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Post by DannyG on Oct 31, 2014 10:40:54 GMT 1
You're all being far too negative. Yes, on the one hand, Vaughan is still injured. But on the positive side, at least the bloke who opened the scoring for Forest and set them on the way to beating us in the cup earlier this season is unavailable tomorrow
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 31, 2014 10:42:57 GMT 1
We are in effect paying him up now with him not playing. Being a bit of a pessimist we may get 4 or 5 games out of him for the rest of the season and let him go at the end of the season. We won't get a striker with as much ability to replace him but at the end of the day a club like ours can't carry a wage like his going forwards with the amount of games he would play. Maybe Holt on massively reduced terms on next year or am I being deluded ? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he's contracted to the end of next season (2016) so we can't simply let him go at the end of the season. If it costs us money to pay him off then we might as well keep him in the hope that he does get fit again. A fully fit James Vaughan is a damn sight better than most strikers at this level.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 10:43:08 GMT 1
I despair with some of our supporters. "get rid" Would you like some of us to say that to your boss about you. Fortunately most of us are human beings as someone further up mentioned. The term used is uncalled for but indicative of some of our fans lack of realising that in spite of his injuries how much has contributed to the cause of HTAFC.
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Post by ColchTerrier on Oct 31, 2014 10:43:58 GMT 1
I hope he comes back firing, I really do! Love the bloke and his passion, at away games after a victory you would always see Vaughany coming up, pumping his arms in the air celebrating with us fans.
Deserves a chance under Powell so let's see what happens, Powell won't rush him like Robins did - because he doesn't need to! Now that we have Holty until Xmas maybe, just maybe they are not only assessing and sorting his calf injury, but all the previous injuries he has had since he has been here (groin etc).
Come on Vaughany lad! UTT
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Post by Torquayterrier on Oct 31, 2014 10:47:54 GMT 1
I concur, we are dreaming if we expect to see him play again for Town. Yeah, let's pay him what he'd earn upfront and have a 0% chance of him playing for us again, rather than the same amount over a longer period and potentially get some games out of him. Cracking idea............... Not likely to be 100% of what he'd earned anyway but it's not just the money. It's the 'potentially' bit. How many games? All the time taking up a squad number. With FFP we are going to start having to look ever more closely at the squad as a whole and make the absolute best of the numbers we have.Vaughan at his best has been one of the best players we've seen here for ages but we knew he had a history with injuries and it was going to be a gamble. There has to come a point when someone says enough is enough. The club are currently supporting him as much as they can but if he plays little or no further part this season it would be a massive risk giving him a squad number for next.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 10:57:22 GMT 1
how can someone so young have so many injuries? I mean where he got injured.... it looked a nothing injury. He obviously has immense talent - but maybe has to push his body too far to achieve a certain level of performance?
I'm not saying get rid at all. Maybe someone needs to sit the lad down and ask him to rein it in a bit?
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Post by royrace on Oct 31, 2014 11:05:43 GMT 1
When you "pay someone off", you wouldn't pay 100% of their salary for the remaining length of the contract. Instead, you'd negotiate to pay (say) 75% of it. This benefits us because he (if this decision was made) is unlikely to contribute again this season. And him, because he'd be a free agent and able to train with, and then sign for, another club. I'd still be fully inclined to keep him on hoping we can get some game time out of him and in the interests of doing the right thing by the player and honouring his contract rather than dropping him like a bad habit when the going gets tough (which we knew it might). Its not out of the question that JV could finally nail his injury problems either, I'd love to see a qualified medical professionals assessment of exactly why he is so prone to injuries and even more weirdly seems to take an age to get back. I'd say a solution to his case (if there is one) is way beyond the skill set of the clubs medical staff, be interesting to know what other avenues the club has pursued. Even if he never plays another though game I'd argue he's probably been worth the money in that he's played a massive part in winning the points necessary to keep us in this division. You could say the money could have been spent more wisely on another striker but even when you're paying a striker £40k per week there are no guarantees he'll perform, ask Brum. What the club does need to do though is stop relying on him and assume he'll never play another game, the signing of Holt is probably some way to doing that, hopefully it can be made more permanent somehow.
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Post by kes on Oct 31, 2014 11:11:48 GMT 1
I suspect that if it was the 70`s or 80`s he`d hardly miss a game - playing with pain-killing injections. Then be in a wheelchair or on crutches in constant pain in later life.
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Post by royrace on Oct 31, 2014 11:11:50 GMT 1
how can someone so young have so many injuries? I mean where he got injured.... it looked a nothing injury. He obviously has immense talent - but maybe has to push his body too far to achieve a certain level of performance? I'm not saying get rid at all. Maybe someone needs to sit the lad down and ask him to rein it in a bit? I think if he ever gets the chance to play along side Holt it could make all the difference, wouldnt have to go tearing around like a loon having to be the main man winning headers, chasing lost causes, getting bashed about. Not having that responsibility would go a long way to helping him avoid any further issues Im sure both from a physical point of view and psychologically knowing that the team wasn't solely relying on him.
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Post by CaptainHart on Oct 31, 2014 11:16:27 GMT 1
how can someone so young have so many injuries? I mean where he got injured.... it looked a nothing injury. He obviously has immense talent - but maybe has to push his body too far to achieve a certain level of performance? I'm not saying get rid at all. Maybe someone needs to sit the lad down and ask him to rein it in a bit? It odd how his career mirrors Danny Cad's. Both big talents when young at Everton, then both getting bad injuries. I think there are two effects, one physical one mental. The physical one is that they miss games and training when their bodies are developing and they're less match ready than other ones. The mental one is like you say, they try too hard to catch up and end up getting other injuries. Once Danny C started getting decent training/fitness support we got a good few games out of him.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Oct 31, 2014 11:21:26 GMT 1
Can see him retiring when his contract is up! Shame great player just always had injury problems!
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Post by Mastercracker on Oct 31, 2014 11:58:35 GMT 1
It's now 7 weeks since JV injured himself by jumping for a ball and then presumably landing awkwardly, and the club still have no idea when he might be fit to play. All we are told is that James has a calf injury. It all sounds pretty vague to me: what sort of soft muscle injury to a fit young man takes months to sort itself out? I genuinely believe the medical people at the club either do not understand what the injury is or if they do, they don't know how to treat it. As I have said previously, even broken legs do not take this long to heal. It's damn frustrating to me and no doubt more so to JV. If I were Dean I'd look round for a non-orthodox medical expert. In my experience these people know far more about the human body and how it works/what treatments to give than our orthodox trained doctors, most of whom don't have a clue because they have been trained into a corrupt system that deals only in toxic drugs and palliatives.
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alex
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Post by alex on Oct 31, 2014 12:05:40 GMT 1
Ok Maybe I was flippant
But would you keep a car that starts one time in 5? A toilet that flushes one time in ten? A TV that works for only 30 mins a day?
JV does not work properly, end of story, he's crock, let him go. He's not skint, he can do something else that will not knacker his body.
I wish he wasn't, but he is, I wish I rich, good looking but I'm not, life's hard my friend.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 31, 2014 12:05:58 GMT 1
how can someone so young have so many injuries? I mean where he got injured.... it looked a nothing injury. He obviously has immense talent - but maybe has to push his body too far to achieve a certain level of performance? I'm not saying get rid at all. Maybe someone needs to sit the lad down and ask him to rein it in a bit? I think if he ever gets the chance to play along side Holt it could make all the difference, wouldnt have to go tearing around like a loon having to be the main man winning headers, chasing lost causes, getting bashed about. Not having that responsibility would go a long way to helping him avoid any further issues Im sure both from a physical point of view and psychologically knowing that the team wasn't solely relying on him. err .... I think that probably happened at Norwich. Its an interesting comparison with Rhodes who has a remarkably good injury record, but who obviously plays within himself and doesn't play to his physical limits. That might give him a long career. If Vaughan played a bit smarter in terms of tackling/challenging - maybe even just by staying on his feet he could prolong his career.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 31, 2014 12:08:42 GMT 1
It's now 7 weeks since JV injured himself by jumping for a ball and then presumably landing awkwardly, and the club still have no idea when he might be fit to play. All we are told is that James has a calf injury. It all sounds pretty vague to me: what sort of soft muscle injury to a fit young man takes months to sort itself out? I genuinely believe the medical people at the club either do not understand what the injury is or if they do, they don't know how to treat it. As I have said previously, even broken legs do not take this long to heal. It's damn frustrating to me and no doubt more so to JV. If I were Dean I'd look round for a non-orthodox medical expert. In my experience these people know far more about the human body and how it works/what treatments to give than our orthodox trained doctors, most of whom don't have a clue because they have been trained into a corrupt system that deals only in toxic drugs and palliatives. Well that helped convince me that you are right.
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on Oct 31, 2014 12:31:55 GMT 1
Ok Maybe I was flippant But would you keep a car that starts one time in 5? A toilet that flushes one time in ten? A TV that works for only 30 mins a day? JV does not work properly, end of story, he's crock, let him go. He's not skint, he can do something else that will not knacker his body. I wish he wasn't, but he is, I wish I rich, good looking but I'm not, life's hard my friend. Would you spend £1m (or what ever his wages are for the next year and a half) to throw your telly/toilet/car out if there was a chance you could fix it and sell it for a profit? Let him go where exactly? Great idea to just "let him go" but how do you do that then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 12:51:25 GMT 1
how can someone so young have so many injuries? I mean where he got injured.... it looked a nothing injury. He obviously has immense talent - but maybe has to push his body too far to achieve a certain level of performance? I'm not saying get rid at all. Maybe someone needs to sit the lad down and ask him to rein it in a bit? It odd how his career mirrors Danny Cad's. Both big talents when young at Everton, then both getting bad injuries. I think there are two effects, one physical one mental. The physical one is that they miss games and training when their bodies are developing and they're less match ready than other ones. The mental one is like you say, they try too hard to catch up and end up getting other injuries. Once Danny C started getting decent training/fitness support we got a good few games out of him. We need to send JV to train with "Blackie" for a few weeks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 13:01:51 GMT 1
When you "pay someone off", you wouldn't pay 100% of their salary for the remaining length of the contract. Instead, you'd negotiate to pay (say) 75% of it. This benefits us because he (if this decision was made) is unlikely to contribute again this season. And him, because he'd be a free agent and able to train with, and then sign for, another club. Why the hell would Vaughan agree to that? Come to think of it, why the hell would we? Even if Vaughan is out for the season, which is by no means the formality that many on here seem to think it is. Surely we'd rather have our best player about for next season, rather than paying him all/the vast majority of his salary to not play another game for us? I find this thread (and the several proceeding threads about Vaughan) quite disrespectful. "Cheers for playing a huge role in keeping us up for two seasons James, but you've got another injury so on your bike... I know you were a huge fans favourite, put your all in for the cause and rejected other clubs to come here, but we've got a 33 year-old on loan from Wigan until January so unfortunately you're out". We're all quick to jump on players for showing a lack of loyalty, but a lot of people seem to go missing when they're the ones that need to show loyalty. A few weeks ago Hammill was out because someone had decided he was in rehab, a few weeks before that Scannell should be let go at the first opportunity... It's pretty ridiculous how quickly players can go from being idolised to vilified and back again. The story here is that Vaughan has an injury and will probably be out for a little while longer. From someone who doesn't spend too long on here, it kind of seems as though people have discussed and over-analysed the situation to such an extent that they've started to convince themselves that Vaughan's career is in jeopardy, when there doesn't seem to be anything to suggest this is actually the case. There are grown adults throwing around suggestions that him playing for Town again is a pipe dream and that we should get shut of him right now. Personally, if I was going through the frustration of being persistently injured, having the fans show flippant disregard for me would probably not help. Surely we should be rallying around Vaughan, rather than throwing our toys out of the pram and expecting Vaughan, who genuinely has reason to be upset, suck it up and get on with it.
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Post by Floyds on Oct 31, 2014 13:13:05 GMT 1
I said "If the decision was made" (i.e. by the club).
No idea if he'll play for us again.
Or even how long his contract is (is it really until Summer 2016?)
Just pointing out that "paying someone off" does not equate to paying 100% of a salary.
Why would we agree?
Well, if it's established (not saying it has been, you understand?) that he won't play for us again, then even if we agree to pay him 99% of his contract that's a 1% saving.
Why would he agree?
Depends if he himself believes he can get fit. He'd get the cash for x number of months, freeing him up to earn a contract elsewhere (a longer term one perhaps, and would earn more (using the 99% example above) than he would by staying here.
As I say in the second and third sentences, it's all hypothetical.
He's a grown man, don't forget. How many people in the real world have contracts that aren't extended, or are released from their jobs, or can't find work?
It's a shame for us and for him that he's injured, but unsure we should be "rallying round" him, whatever that means.
What would you like us (as supporters) to do? A half time collection to buy him a get well soon card and gift?
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