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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 22:06:46 GMT 1
Kind of makes me laugh how self centred some people are thinking that the nsl is just about improving the atmosphere for the whole ground, if the guys behind the goal are enjoying it its working. I think self centred is blocking the first three rows with flags behind the goals preventing kids sitting there What a load of utter shite.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 23:16:47 GMT 1
Have a look at the OPs previous post history and his Twitter account. Then re-evaluate the total bollocks he has posted here, again, and again, and again ad infinitum. Bore off.
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Post by Pozza on Dec 21, 2014 23:17:05 GMT 1
IMO the splitting up of our more vocal fans has had a negative effect on the home atmosphere. The singers need to be next to the away fans. The NSL is a very good idea but it's in the wrong part of the ground. Sorry if I have offended anyone. It would be interesting to see how many fans in the NSL actually sat in the signing section each week, only then can you say that a 'splitting' them has happened. End of the day, if everyone has such an opinion on the NSL and could do a better job of creating an atmosphere, feel free to crack on and make it happen. Until then, how about just leaving the guys in the NSL to do what there doing and hopefully it grow into something bigger & better in years to come.
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Post by terrierng on Dec 22, 2014 0:18:30 GMT 1
IMO the splitting up of our more vocal fans has had a negative effect on the home atmosphere. The singers need to be next to the away fans. The NSL is a very good idea but it's in the wrong part of the ground. Sorry if I have offended anyone. It would be interesting to see how many fans in the NSL actually sat in the signing section each week, only then can you say that a 'splitting' them has happened. End of the day, if everyone has such an opinion on the NSL and could do a better job of creating an atmosphere, feel free to crack on and make it happen. Until then, how about just leaving the guys in the NSL to do what there doing and hopefully it grow into something bigger & better in years to come. Like i said earlier. The singing section. All the gear and no idea.. Take your shoes off and them...lol
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Dec 22, 2014 7:22:18 GMT 1
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Post by Sio on Dec 22, 2014 7:22:18 GMT 1
IMO the splitting up of our more vocal fans has had a negative effect on the home atmosphere. The singers need to be next to the away fans. The NSL is a very good idea but it's in the wrong part of the ground. Sorry if I have offended anyone. Genuine question- how many other grounds have their main singing section by the away fans?
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Post by Marco4 on Dec 22, 2014 7:30:29 GMT 1
It's a roundabout this one, isn't it?
Presumably the idea of the NSL is that they get to cheer the team on; create the 'wall of noise' idea that will make a palpable difference to the matchday experience.
To do that, it will need more than 660 fans.
To get more fans the team will have to play better.
One thing that might help them play better is a 'wall of sound'.
It's going to be a long, slow process and, from a personal point of view, it's a worthwhile exercise. If, in the interim, means 660 fans are having a bloody good day out, then fair play to them, because attending some of the games I've seen at the JSS can be a wholly underwhelming affair.
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Post by Pozza on Dec 22, 2014 8:38:47 GMT 1
What your saying is how it is mate.
It's a now a cultural/mentality thing in England whereby football has become an entertainment business rather than a sport. People turn up expecting to be entertained rather than just enjoy the match, fans no longer feel the need to sing, encourage etc as their thinking is that 'player x is on £50k a week, he should be able to do his job without my help'
The media over the years have constantly rammed down our throats about how English fans are the best in world. A very blinkered view. With the emergence of more European football being broadcast in the UK it's clear that we no longer have the most fanatical support out there. If you look at leagues across Europe, Germany, Poland, Turkey, Italy, Norway, you'll find that some of their fans are far more vocal and colourful that ours. Fan groups out in some countries are the life blood of the community, it's gives people a sense of purpose, something to belong to.
Hopefully the English mentality will change, there are pockets of people at other clubs trying to do the same as the NSL are at Town but it won't happen overnight. If we can inspire the next generation to go back to how it used to be then all the struggle and stick we get will've been worth it.
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Post by orinoco on Dec 22, 2014 8:42:53 GMT 1
I think it's a fair enough question to ask given the club has put money and resources into it. Like I said, I don't have an agenda - I've mentioned my support of the NSL on here numerous times. I'm just curious as to how ONE of the measures of efficacy is holding up, that's all. The club has not put a single penny into the NSL. It's organised by volunteers and funded by fans. The average attendance in that stand prior to Saturday was 660 its about time people stopped posting crap about NSL ok i wasnt up for it when it started,being a season ticket holder in fml and at £199 for me and £10 each for 2 kids!! got same price this season in upper and will be renewing next season!!in my opinion the lads who post on here from NSL mel,ben,sio are trying to something different and doing a top job so need support,ok was flat yesterday, but after display it was more like a boxing day match and they all pissed!!
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Post by terrierclare on Dec 22, 2014 8:53:11 GMT 1
I know I said I wouldn't post again after the Evans debate but can't resist. I think what the NSL is trying to do is fantastic and at times I can hear them loud and clear from my seat in DG upper tier. (Near the south stand)
I can't understand the flak they're getting simply for trying to improve the atmosphere and have fun at the same time. If you don't like it then don't go in.
As to splitting the singing section, that's possibly a good thing as the NSL at least sing Town related songs rather than 'We all hate Leeds scum' and other juvenile offerings.
Everyone should be entitled to sit/stand where they want and support Town how they want. I personally wish the NSL every success in their efforts.
Keep it up all of you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 9:05:24 GMT 1
You only have to read this forum after a defeat to see why the atmosphere is generally crap at home matches.
I wasn't there on Saturday but I didn't even have to take more than a glance at the thread titles to see we'd lost and the performance had been poor.
Pozza has summed it up perfectly, it'll take years to change the mentality of enough people at home games to get the atmosphere to the levels we all crave, but if that's what it takes then so be it. The frustrating part of it is, we can take 3000 to Fulham and they practically all to a man make a contribution to the atmosphere, yet at home, these fans are happy to sit and watch the game making no contribution to theirs or anybody else's match day experience. If 1 in 10 fans made the effort that we are doing down in the NSL, then the ground would be transformed.
Cynical comments on social media wont stop us, but if folk want to get a kick out of being critical then let them crack on.
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Post by Automatic(EPBS) on Dec 22, 2014 9:24:35 GMT 1
IMO the splitting up of our more vocal fans has had a negative effect on the home atmosphere. The singers need to be next to the away fans. The NSL is a very good idea but it's in the wrong part of the ground. Sorry if I have offended anyone. Genuine question- how many other grounds have their main singing section by the away fans? A valid point but I'm talking about our atmosphere. How many other grounds give their best end to the away fans?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 9:32:41 GMT 1
Genuine question- how many other grounds have their main singing section by the away fans? A valid point but I'm talking about our atmosphere. How many other grounds give their best end to the away fans? The South Stand is not the best stand in the ground.
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Dec 22, 2014 9:37:03 GMT 1
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Post by Marco4 on Dec 22, 2014 9:37:03 GMT 1
The media over the years have constantly rammed down our throats about how English fans are the best in world. A very blinkered view. With the emergence of more European football being broadcast in the UK it's clear that we no longer have the most fanatical support out there. If you look at leagues across Europe, Germany, Poland, Turkey, Italy, Norway, you'll find that some of their fans are far more vocal and colourful that ours. Fan groups out in some countries are the life blood of the community, it's gives people a sense of purpose, something to belong to. We flicked on the Freiburg v Hannover after the Liverpool v Arsenal game yesterday and, even for a pretty low key Bundesliga affair, it looked a lovely old affair, hundreds of sparklers waving behind the goal and even some people drinking beer in the stand. Also watched Marseille against Lille earlier on, and that was bouncing. Santander hats as uniform, massed ranks jumping in unison. Brilliant. I assume it's all arranged by clubs, but it makes it a pretty exciting spectacle anyway.
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Dec 22, 2014 9:45:03 GMT 1
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Post by Barbieterrier on Dec 22, 2014 9:45:03 GMT 1
A sincere question, with no agenda: Are there fewer people in the North stand this season, on average, than last season? Anecdotally, it seems that way to me, but I can't find figures anywhere. I've asked this on here as I feel certain that there is way less people in there than there was when it was FML. I've a season ticket in there now and have had past 3 seasons. Saying that the guys behind the NSL have worked hard put a lot of effort in and are good guys. It's a good atmosphere generally and it's fun. It's also standing for 90 minutes which most seem to like so I don't get why folk have a go at them. Better entertainment in there than on the pitch.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Dec 22, 2014 9:45:41 GMT 1
IMO the splitting up of our more vocal fans has had a negative effect on the home atmosphere. The singers need to be next to the away fans. The NSL is a very good idea but it's in the wrong part of the ground. Sorry if I have offended anyone. That will totally depend on where you sit - The NSL is way louder than it was last year thus the singing section (which lets face it was hardly ever that) maybe somewhat quieter but personal proximity to the noise will be the deciding factor here. I think any noise not aimed at the fat bloke in the away end is definitely an improvement, this is what I believe the NSL is doing and it may take time but good for them.
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Dec 22, 2014 10:12:50 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 10:12:50 GMT 1
The club has not put a single penny into the NSL. It's organised by volunteers and funded by fans. The average attendance in that stand prior to Saturday was 660 its about time people stopped posting crap about NSL ok i wasnt up for it when it started,being a season ticket holder in fml and at £199 for me and £10 each for 2 kids!! got same price this season in upper and will be renewing next season!!in my opinion the lads who post on here from NSL mel,ben,sio are trying to something different and doing a top job so need support,ok was flat yesterday, but after display it was more like a boxing day match and they all pissed!! The only person posting crap here is you. I asked a perfectly fair question: attendance in the stand this season Vs. last. I even mentioned that attendance is only one measure of how well it's doing. Fuck me, this siege mentality is hardly going to stand you in good stead to grow the thing.
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Dec 22, 2014 10:13:13 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 10:13:13 GMT 1
As an aside to this debate the NSL are also taking on board suggestions from those of us who prefer to watch from the side (I have been in with the NSL for one game and atmosphere was good) Observations that the kids in the Upper FML wish to get involved was apparent Saturday their flag flying looked great. I lay odds on the NSL forked out for those? so come on you kids don't forget next match we want to see them again.UTT and the NSL.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Dec 22, 2014 10:27:39 GMT 1
its about time people stopped posting crap about NSL ok i wasnt up for it when it started,being a season ticket holder in fml and at £199 for me and £10 each for 2 kids!! got same price this season in upper and will be renewing next season!!in my opinion the lads who post on here from NSL mel,ben,sio are trying to something different and doing a top job so need support,ok was flat yesterday, but after display it was more like a boxing day match and they all pissed!! The only person posting crap here is you. I asked a perfectly fair question: attendance in the stand this season Vs. last. I even mentioned that attendance is only one measure of how well it's doing. Fuck me, this siege mentality is hardly going to stand you in good stead to grow the thing. I think it would be unfair to judge the relative success on the attendance figures in the NS last year versus this. They were very different target demigraphics - It was the family stand and prices for this stand reflected this and season tickets were not available for adults only last season. But every family that wanted to sit in the family stand HAD to sit there. Every time a schools promotion took place the first tickets given away for FREE were in this stand. The family stand has moved this year so many families have moved and any free tickets given away are for elsewhere in the stadium. You are trying to compare apples to oranges, the only figures to guage are attendance figures from the start of this year going forward because no RELEVANT data can possibly be used from other season's attendance figures
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Dec 22, 2014 10:48:01 GMT 1
Post by patfield on Dec 22, 2014 10:48:01 GMT 1
I went in the FM lower yesterday with my son and a friend, it was a poor atmosphere bar a couple of lads trying to get everyone singing. I put this down to the dire game yesterday, like people say it doesnt matter how many go in there if theres nothing to sing about, the weather was shite the football was shite. I normally sit in the FM upper and will revert back there for the rest of the season. Strangely enough it has sounded louder in the FM upper previously from below than actually being in the middle of it yesterday. Good luck to the guys trying to improve the atmosphere, but imo it wont help with the crap served up yesterday. The players have to give the crowd something to cheer
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Dec 22, 2014 10:50:53 GMT 1
Post by colnevalleyblue on Dec 22, 2014 10:50:53 GMT 1
Where is the family stand now ?
I was sat behind two blokes and about five of their kids and mates who'd all got in for nowt on Saturday and they were commenting on the good deals Town push in the community, overheard a young lad also say he's glad he hadn't paid to watch the game at half time, I pressumed it was a school match or something like that.
Attendance figures in the whole ground look down to me and the FML appears to be getting less people in each week. The two trail games last season were probably the best for atmosphere and numbers, Bolton and Barnsley, maybe the novelty has worn off. I know I was glancing over at the Kilner Bank and Riverside on Saturday and wondering if they were as cold as me!
I really used to believe we had good support and potential for it to grow when we were in League One but it doesn't look that way anymore. I'd question if home support has actually decreased since promotion too. We've got a 25,000 seater stadium and it's been filled once in 20 years.
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Dec 22, 2014 10:56:20 GMT 1
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Post by Yesss on Dec 22, 2014 10:56:20 GMT 1
When the team isn't performing out on the pitch, it's hard to get behind the team....
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Dec 22, 2014 11:01:44 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 11:01:44 GMT 1
The only person posting crap here is you. I asked a perfectly fair question: attendance in the stand this season Vs. last. I even mentioned that attendance is only one measure of how well it's doing. Fuck me, this siege mentality is hardly going to stand you in good stead to grow the thing. I think it would be unfair to judge the relative success on the attendance figures in the NS last year versus this. They were very different target demigraphics - It was the family stand and prices for this stand reflected this and season tickets were not available for adults only last season. But every family that wanted to sit in the family stand HAD to sit there. Every time a schools promotion took place the first tickets given away for FREE were in this stand. The family stand has moved this year so many families have moved and any free tickets given away are for elsewhere in the stadium. You are trying to compare apples to oranges, the only figures to guage are attendance figures from the start of this year going forward because no RELEVANT data can possibly be used from other season's attendance figures Fair enough. And the attendance game-on-game looks to be on the wane. The NSL themself say that 'we HAVE to show the club the demand for a home end is there!' So the 'yeah, but we're all having a good time, so that's all that matters' posturing doesn't hold up. Yes, Saturday was shite, but that impacts noise, not attendance.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:11:06 GMT 1
Post by benmsmith4 on Dec 22, 2014 11:11:06 GMT 1
I don't buy the excuse that the performance on the pitch predetermines the noise in the stand. Take Germany for example, your team could be bottom of the league getting arseholed every week and they're still singing for the full 90 mins because that's what you do at the football over there. It's all about cultural difference and fan groups over here are trying to change a culture of occasionally applauding your team and singing the odd song about the opposition. That is going to take many years, not half a season!
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Dec 22, 2014 11:11:49 GMT 1
Post by patfield on Dec 22, 2014 11:11:49 GMT 1
Where is the family stand now ? I was sat behind two blokes and about five of their kids and mates who'd all got in for nowt on Saturday and they were commenting on the good deals Town push in the community, overheard a young lad also say he's glad he hadn't paid to watch the game at half time, I pressumed it was a school match or something like that. Attendance figures in the whole ground look down to me and the FML appears to be getting less people in each week. The two trail games last season were probably the best for atmosphere and numbers, Bolton and Barnsley, maybe the novelty has worn off. I know I was glancing over at the Kilner Bank and Riverside on Saturday and wondering if they were as cold as me! I really used to believe we had good support and potential for it to grow when we were in League One but it doesn't look that way anymore. I'd question if home support has actually decreased since promotion too. We've got a 25,000 seater stadium and it's been filled once in 20 years. I think in general , Football attendances are on the wane. Sit in a cold ground paying £20 odd quid a game or stay in the warmth of your own house having a couple of beers and a takeaway and watching sky sports. The culture of football is changing, until the bubble bursts and the cost of football goes down significantly then people will vote with their feet.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:13:40 GMT 1
Post by 3Pipe on Dec 22, 2014 11:13:40 GMT 1
Need to get this lass in...
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Dec 22, 2014 11:18:04 GMT 1
Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Dec 22, 2014 11:18:04 GMT 1
I think it would be unfair to judge the relative success on the attendance figures in the NS last year versus this. They were very different target demigraphics - It was the family stand and prices for this stand reflected this and season tickets were not available for adults only last season. But every family that wanted to sit in the family stand HAD to sit there. Every time a schools promotion took place the first tickets given away for FREE were in this stand. The family stand has moved this year so many families have moved and any free tickets given away are for elsewhere in the stadium. You are trying to compare apples to oranges, the only figures to guage are attendance figures from the start of this year going forward because no RELEVANT data can possibly be used from other season's attendance figures Fair enough. And the attendance game-on-game looks to be on the wane. The NSL themself say that 'we HAVE to show the club the demand for a home end is there!' So the 'yeah, but we're all having a good time, so that's all that matters' posturing doesn't hold up. Yes, Saturday was shite, but that impacts noise, not attendance. I wouldn't put too much sway in the game on Saturday as the last saturday fixture before Christmas is notoriously poor for attendance figures and all clubs prefer to be away on this date so they don't suffer from it. An overall trend is important though but hopefully the more attractive opposition will make up for those not so hardy souls who may want to go elsewhere in the stadium as the winter bites. I really think that attendance wise the NSL will not negatively affect the club at all, and I honestly see no problem at all with the NSL having a good time (I don't get the posturing you allude to) and if the NS continues and is 600 odd going in there and having a good time is all it ever becomes is that really a problem. I know they are hoping for more and good luck to them I do feel with patience and continued efforts it will grow into something bigger and of which we can be proud but with everything else it takes time and 11 games into it is far too early to judge what may or may not be achieved.
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Post by benmsmith4 on Dec 22, 2014 11:19:25 GMT 1
Think we in the NSL shot ourselves in the foot when we said that our aim was to improve the general match day atmosphere down at the JSS. If we had instead argued that it was purely for our own enjoyment and not part of any wider project then there would be no grounds for the criticism we're now receiving.
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Post by Sio on Dec 22, 2014 11:22:13 GMT 1
Genuine question- how many other grounds have their main singing section by the away fans? A valid point but I'm talking about our atmosphere. How many other grounds give their best end to the away fans? That's not really that important. You don't NEED the away fans to generate atmosphere- it's actually disappointing that people think it is, and one of the main reasons the NSL is struggling for numbers. We need to get away from this 'away fan banter' idea and start generating atmosphere on our own.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:52:11 GMT 1
Post by Automatic(EPBS) on Dec 22, 2014 11:52:11 GMT 1
A valid point but I'm talking about our atmosphere. How many other grounds give their best end to the away fans? That's not really that important. You don't NEED the away fans to generate atmosphere- it's actually disappointing that people think it is, and one of the main reasons the NSL is struggling for numbers. We need to get away from this 'away fan banter' idea and start generating atmosphere on our own. That's all well and good but a lot of people like the banter with the away fans.
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Dec 22, 2014 11:55:46 GMT 1
Where is the family stand now ? I was sat behind two blokes and about five of their kids and mates who'd all got in for nowt on Saturday and they were commenting on the good deals Town push in the community, overheard a young lad also say he's glad he hadn't paid to watch the game at half time, I pressumed it was a school match or something like that. Attendance figures in the whole ground look down to me and the FML appears to be getting less people in each week. The two trail games last season were probably the best for atmosphere and numbers, Bolton and Barnsley, maybe the novelty has worn off. I know I was glancing over at the Kilner Bank and Riverside on Saturday and wondering if they were as cold as me! I really used to believe we had good support and potential for it to grow when we were in League One but it doesn't look that way anymore. I'd question if home support has actually decreased since promotion too. We've got a 25,000 seater stadium and it's been filled once in 20 years. I think in general , Football attendances are on the wane. Sit in a cold ground paying £20 odd quid a game or stay in the warmth of your own house having a couple of beers and a takeaway and watching sky sports. The culture of football is changing, until the bubble bursts and the cost of football goes down significantly then people will vote with their feet. You make a great point, Birmingham for example seem to have suffered from poor home gates and the travelling support was small in numbers and more or less muted, which was quite telling having seen them travel big here in the past. I honestly don't think there is going to be a match this season which I'm going to be excited for home or away. Fulham was the exception. I just go out of habit and because I literally have nothing else today, I'm not actually sure I like football anymore. Going back to the two blokes I was sat in front of, about 30 minutes in, he said... 'Why am I sat here and not sat in my warm flat watching soccer Saturday'. Even at free admission people would prefer to stay at home. Maybe wiziwig on the laptop, soccer Saturday on the TV, a few beers and a takeaway is the way to go. Saturday was a poor attendance, no atmosphere from either set of supporters and a nondescript game, might as well have been watching a district match.
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