Tinpot
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I'm really tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on May 24, 2015 10:43:17 GMT 1
Opens up an opportunity for Billing &/or Tronstadt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 10:47:32 GMT 1
We've got Coady, Hogg, Butterfield & Billing who can play the deeper midfield roll, Oscars wages would be better used elsewhere, no great loss imo.. The fact he had 10 decent games in over 4 years at the club tells you everything you need to know about the player, he couldn't even hold down a spot in league 1. The danger is that you're effectively relying on Billing to turn in 10+ GOOD (not mediocre!) performances...which he might well indeed do. Not that Gobern really plays in that role if you actually watched how we played with him in the team, but all those players were here this season, and without Gobern we'd have had to bring someone in on loan (Edgar or Radoslaw anyone?). The previous season, we had those players (Clayton for Butterfield, and Norwood for Coady), and we still needed Gobern to feature 25 times. At this level, you NEED 4 you can count on to perm a middle 3 from, in order to create the room for the Phillip Billings to be introduced to being footballers. Especially when of those 4, Coady is still learning the game and has long flat periods where he's ineffectual, and Hogg is a player who is likely to miss 10 games. It's a mistake, and its unlikely we will bring in someone as good.
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Thwarting Dog
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Post by Thwarting Dog on May 24, 2015 10:53:56 GMT 1
So let's look at the goal stats on Gobern.
Scored 1 against Sheff Utd in the 3-0 away win 2011-12 season, League 1 Scored 1 against Wycombe W in the 6-0 away win 2011-12 season, league 1 (Rhodes 5) Scored 1 against Derby Co in the 4-4 home draw this season finished.
So 3 goals over 4 years- Its simply not good enough for any midfielder, can't understand the love-in for this guy other than he's shop windowed himself like Will said. So will Town implement the year extension clause to recoup some losses on the player or let him walk ? Or make a player out of him in that year ?
Personally I think there's better players to be had if we really want to progress and kick on next season.
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Post by AndySk on May 24, 2015 10:54:24 GMT 1
We've got Coady, Hogg, Butterfield & Billing who can play the deeper midfield roll, Oscars wages would be better used elsewhere, no great loss imo.. The fact he had 10 decent games in over 4 years at the club tells you everything you need to know about the player, he couldn't even hold down a spot in league 1. The danger is that you're effectively relying on Billing to turn in 10+ GOOD (not mediocre!) performances...which he might well indeed do. Gobern has hardly had 10+ good performances in 4 years yet Billing has to do that in what could be his first season at first team level? Doubt he'll get that many starts even if Gobern goes to be honest but think he'll do a good job for us Liked Oscar the last couple of months but not overly fussed if he goes
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Post by AndySk on May 24, 2015 11:07:09 GMT 1
Think Powells policy of bigging up the young uns but hardly giving them any game time was a mistake especially with Billing. Should've had a couple of starts at end of the season when safe to see if he looked like he could do a job, if so there'd be no real problem with Oscar going. Not sure when he thinks the best time to play him is if 'meaningless' end of season games wasn't the right time tho
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 11:09:01 GMT 1
If you're good enough you're old enough
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Post by gledholt terrier on May 24, 2015 11:12:26 GMT 1
Think Powells policy of bigging up the young uns but hardly giving them any game time was a mistake especially with Billing. Should've had a couple of starts at end of the season when safe to see if he looked like he could do a job, if so there'd be no real problem with Oscar going. Not sure when he thinks the best time to play him is if 'meaningless' end of season games wasn't the right time tho Big fan of CP but his persistence with Majewski on the bench when this could have been used to bring on people like Billing was just odd.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 12:02:00 GMT 1
Irrespective of whether or not he deserves an extension, do we really need to prioritise on that sort of player in the middle, in light of fact he does a very similar job to Coady (and Billing by all accounts). If you take Butterfield out of the equation, all the central midfielders are pretty defensive and one dimensional.
If releasing Gobern allowed town to bring in someone else with a bit more about them, i.e. that could get box to box, like Austin perhaps, it would be fine by me.
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Post by AndySk on May 24, 2015 12:13:13 GMT 1
If you're good enough you're old enough If you're good enough...best not risk it, you know, in case it doesn't work, Edgars you're starting in midfield lad...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 16:18:24 GMT 1
Think Powells policy of bigging up the young uns but hardly giving them any game time was a mistake especially with Billing. Should've had a couple of starts at end of the season when safe to see if he looked like he could do a job, if so there'd be no real problem with Oscar going. Not sure when he thinks the best time to play him is if 'meaningless' end of season games wasn't the right time tho They're not 'meaningless' if the Football League say they are though...are they?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 16:35:17 GMT 1
The danger is that you're effectively relying on Billing to turn in 10+ GOOD (not mediocre!) performances...which he might well indeed do. Gobern has hardly had 10+ good performances in 4 years yet Billing has to do that in what could be his first season at first team level? Doubt he'll get that many starts even if Gobern goes to be honest but think he'll do a good job for us Liked Oscar the last couple of months but not overly fussed if he goes This is the problem. Gobern HAS had 10 good performances in this season alone. Nobody who has played in this second half of the season has really let the club down or performed generally less than good. You cant RELY on a youngster coming in and doing that. He might well do, in which case come next summer we won't be regretting it, but it seems a big risk to me. I've only seen a couple of performances from Billing, and whilst he's good, I think he'd have been ridiculously exposed in a Championship game this season (much like Duane Holmes, Sinnott and Crooks before him when they made the break through). Is Billing likely to be better this coming season than Majewski, Poyet and Edgar combined?? AND Gobern?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on May 24, 2015 17:30:21 GMT 1
Combined ? You can only play one at a time ... Would you want to keep majewski ? Definitely not .. Edgar ? .. Definitely not .. Poyet ?? Not sure why he gets a mention. Did he play 2 games for us or three ? Forget about him.. Which leaves Oscar... F*** me you are rewriting history here... How many good games has he had for us ? 10 ? 20? 30 ? 100? It seems to be rising by the minute.. I like the lad but I wouldn't exactly call him a success at HTFC... Right that we offer him a contract IMO... If he doesn't want to stay then we look elsewhere... No panic... No pining for the days when we had radi, david and Diego .. We just get on with it.. Move on and improve..no melodrama
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Post by andyeastleake on May 24, 2015 18:32:18 GMT 1
Sort out the defense first. Coady? Lost his direction to be sure. Totally agree with the first point I 've quoted but your second is harsh in the extreme (IMHO). Form tailed off a smidge (but from a high level) which is arguably to be expected in his first full-ish season and you're claiming he's lost direction??? CC was a big plus point from last year IMHO.
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Post by mightyterrier on May 24, 2015 19:09:49 GMT 1
Sort out the defense first. Coady? Lost his direction to be sure. Totally agree with the first point I 've quoted but your second is harsh in the extreme (IMHO). Form tailed off a smidge (but from a high level) which is arguably to be expected in his first full-ish season and you're claiming he's lost direction??? CC was a big plus point from last year IMHO. Coady's first full season in the championship and some on here seem determined to knock him in typical DATM impatient knee jerk fashion. Agree Coady was a massive plus for us last year and will only get better.
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Post by Headless Chicken on May 24, 2015 19:31:00 GMT 1
Totally agree with the first point I 've quoted but your second is harsh in the extreme (IMHO). Form tailed off a smidge (but from a high level) which is arguably to be expected in his first full-ish season and you're claiming he's lost direction??? CC was a big plus point from last year IMHO. Coady's first full season in the championship and some on here seem determined to knock him in typical DATM impatient knee jerk fashion. Agree Coady was a massive plus for us last year and will only get better. Drop him or sell him and his stock will rise on here
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 19:31:39 GMT 1
Combined ? You can only play one at a time ... Would you want to keep majewski ? Definitely not .. Edgar ? .. Definitely not .. Poyet ?? Not sure why he gets a mention. Did he play 2 games for us or three ? Forget about him.. Which leaves Oscar... F*** me you are rewriting history here... How many good games has he had for us ? 10 ? 20? 30 ? 100? It seems to be rising by the minute.. I like the lad but I wouldn't exactly call him a success at HTFC... Right that we offer him a contract IMO... If he doesn't want to stay then we look elsewhere... No panic... No pining for the days when we had radi, david and Diego .. We just get on with it.. Move on and improve..no melodrama You appear to have totally missed the point. All those players (and Gobern) played for us this season. Remove them all from availability and they need replacing by someone who is effectively able to contribute as much as all of them did. Your point about moving on and improving is a good one, but I'll be interested to see a player better than Gobern (and Radi and Edgar and Poyet) come to join us when he can see a team with Hogg, Butterfield and Coady in it.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 24, 2015 20:28:16 GMT 1
Disagree, I think you have a short memory with regards Gobern. He's been pretty constantly decent, in between timing his injuries unfortunately, which has meant he's not available for selection when new managers are 'making their minds up' about their players. Rarely poor, and NEVER 'woeful'. He hasn't been 'quality' recently, he's just been consistent, and key. We only lost one game this season with Gobern playing, and that against a team who could be a Premier League team tomorrow. Hes been woeful plenty of times. I mean REALLY short of whats required. "rarely poor'?? You're having a laugh! Ok, hes had injuries but so have loads of other players. Yet they do enough to get in the side. they impress in training, they impress in games. Gobern hasn't done that for manager after manager over his 4 years here. Its never Gobern's fault is it? . it's the managers for not picking him. Its the injuries. Its the tactics. Its because he didn't get a run of games... maybe its actually because he just hasn't been good enough to bother picking?? He did well towards the end of the season and if you could guarantee that would be the standard you'd get from him going forward then hed be worth keeping, but that recent run doesn't alter the crap hes given the club prior to that and if he hadn't had that little run hed have left and no one would have given it much thought at all.
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bigfatmonkey
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Post by bigfatmonkey on May 24, 2015 20:41:47 GMT 1
Disagree, I think you have a short memory with regards Gobern. He's been pretty constantly decent, in between timing his injuries unfortunately, which has meant he's not available for selection when new managers are 'making their minds up' about their players. Rarely poor, and NEVER 'woeful'. He hasn't been 'quality' recently, he's just been consistent, and key. We only lost one game this season with Gobern playing, and that against a team who could be a Premier League team tomorrow. Hes been woeful plenty of times. I mean REALLY short of whats required. "rarely poor'?? You're having a laugh! Ok, hes had injuries but so have loads of other players. Yet they do enough to get in the side. they impress in training, they impress in games. Gobern hasn't done that for manager after manager over his 4 years here. Its never Gobern's fault is it? . it's the managers for not picking him. Its the injuries. Its the tactics. Its because he didn't get a run of games... maybe its actually because he just hasn't been good enough to bother picking?? He did well towards the end of the season and if you could guarantee that would be the standard you'd get from him going forward then hed be worth keeping, but that recent run doesn't alter the crap hes given the club prior to that and if he hadn't had that little run hed have left and no one would have given it much thought at all. I stopped reading this when I got to the part that said "Hes been woeful plenty of times" (sic)
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Post by Captainslapper on May 24, 2015 20:50:55 GMT 1
Doesn't matter. He has. One game at Notts county stands out in the memory, where he was so utterly inept it was comical.
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Post by richhtfc on May 24, 2015 21:11:20 GMT 1
Doesn't matter. He has. One game at Notts county stands out in the memory, where he was so utterly inept it was comical. Because non of our other players have bad games presumably? I haven't personally ever seen him be 'woeful', he got scapegoated by a few on here because some people enjoy being negative. I think he hasn't played as much as he should because we've had a cautious approach and he's more attacking than defensive minded which didn't suit this. Once we were safe, he gets his chance, and we put in some excellent performances. He is great cover and should've played more this season imo.
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Post by patfield on May 24, 2015 21:37:06 GMT 1
Gobern for me has been inconsistent since he's been here. Granted he has had a lot of injuries. Lets not get blinded by his recent good performances. I think he is a good squad player but no more. Not as good as Hogg. Maybe he " doesn't feel part of the club anymore " pat Its a good aftershave Ted but doesn't suit you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2015 22:09:52 GMT 1
We've got Coady, Hogg, Butterfield & Billing who can play the deeper midfield roll, Oscars wages would be better used elsewhere, no great loss imo.. The fact he had 10 decent games in over 4 years at the club tells you everything you need to know about the player, he couldn't even hold down a spot in league 1. Eh - he's not been playing the deeper midfield road? He has been playing a bit of a crucial role in our kind of "3 at the back system" which has looked a better system since his inclusion. He has sort of solved the problem of having no one in front of the left back as the advanced left sided midfielder. Yep his from defo coincided with our good finish. He's one who I think will go on to do well at another championship club, if he does leave. He has quite a few assets to his game. In terms of his contract I'd be looking at what he can bring next season rather than what he's done in the past. I know next to nothing about likes of billing/tronstad etc however, given they barely have an appearance between them I would suggest it'll be an enormous ask for them to suddenly perform a significant role for us this season.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on May 24, 2015 22:26:26 GMT 1
Maybe he " doesn't feel part of the club anymore " pat Its a good aftershave Ted but doesn't suit you.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 25, 2015 0:16:23 GMT 1
Doesn't matter. He has. One game at Notts county stands out in the memory, where he was so utterly inept it was comical. Because non of our other players have bad games presumably? I haven't personally ever seen him be 'woeful', he got scapegoated by a few on here because some people enjoy being negative. I think he hasn't played as much as he should because we've had a cautious approach and he's more attacking than defensive minded which didn't suit this. Once we were safe, he gets his chance, and we put in some excellent performances. He is great cover and should've played more this season imo. Yes all players do. Apart from Gobern it seems who's never been woeful apparently. truth is hes had a higher % of lousy/below par games than most do, which is why a succession of managers haven't used him much at all. 'Once we were safe he gets his chance and we put in excellent performances. he is great cover.'- its like hes only been at the club 8 weeks!
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Post by patfield on May 25, 2015 8:04:56 GMT 1
I agree with Captain on this one. A few decent performances in a otherwise indifferent town "career" isn't enough. Midfield has enough options Imo and with all players fit Gobern wouldn't start for me. Its a case of take it or leave it offer from town and if he's chucked the toys out of the pram then thanks and goodbye. Time for Billing to be nurtured and brought in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 9:10:36 GMT 1
I don't pride myself on being a studious evaluator of each and every player in each and every game, but I can tell you that Gobern has been showing his potential for a lot longer than some posters on here are giving him credit for. He's always been excellent at playing simple forward passes, and reads the game well. We've often looked a better team when he's played, and infact at Boro, when he came on for the injured Vaughan in the first half, he gave us a foothold in a game that we probably deserved to get something out of.
To suggest he's had a handful of good games at the back end of this season is extremely unfair on the lad. I'd be sad to see him leave, he's a good player that's been blighted by injuries to his suspect ankles.
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Post by wtd on May 25, 2015 9:29:08 GMT 1
If you're good enough you're old enough Or in the case of Duane... how old are you going to be before you're good enough?
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Post by drfootball on May 25, 2015 9:57:28 GMT 1
I think it's likely that money or "feeling part of the club" not the drivers on his decision . Through little fault of his own he is at very best our 4th choice midfielder and as such is a bit of a luxury . I have to agree that at the moment his wages can be better spent on a left back , centre back , striker etc
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bigfatmonkey
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Post by bigfatmonkey on May 25, 2015 10:08:59 GMT 1
I don't pride myself on being a studious evaluator of each and every player in each and every game, but I can tell you that Gobern has been showing his potential for a lot longer than some posters on here are giving him credit for. He's always been excellent at playing simple forward passes, and reads the game well. We've often looked a better team when he's played, and infact at Boro, when he came on for the injured Vaughan in the first half, he gave us a foothold in a game that we probably deserved to get something out of. To suggest he's had a handful of good games at the back end of this season is extremely unfair on the lad. I'd be sad to see him leave, he's a good player that's been blighted by injuries to his suspect ankles. Good to see that not everyone forms an opinion based on someone in the pub telling them a player's shit because they once went to a game and he misplaced a pass. I think there will have been a lot of Town fans who haven't been surprised at all by Gobern's form in recent weeks. It's long been apparent we have a talented footballer on our hands, it's just been a case of him retaining fitness and getting a good run in the side.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on May 25, 2015 10:18:27 GMT 1
I don't pride myself on being a studious evaluator of each and every player in each and every game, but I can tell you that Gobern has been showing his potential for a lot longer than some posters on here are giving him credit for. He's always been excellent at playing simple forward passes, and reads the game well. We've often looked a better team when he's played, and infact at Boro, when he came on for the injured Vaughan in the first half, he gave us a foothold in a game that we probably deserved to get something out of. To suggest he's had a handful of good games at the back end of this season is extremely unfair on the lad. I'd be sad to see him leave, he's a good player that's been blighted by injuries to his suspect ankles. Good to see that not everyone forms an opinion based on someone in the pub telling them a player's shit because they once went to a game and he misplaced a pass. I think there will have been a lot of Town fans who haven't been surprised at all by Gobern's form in recent weeks. It's long been apparent we have a talented footballer on our hands, it's just been a case of him retaining fitness and getting a good run in the side. So if someone doesn't share your views then they have been told it down the boozer ? That's a little condescending .. Fwiw I think he has showed glimpses of talent over the years, had the occasional good game... But the recent spell was the first really sustained spell of being excellent game after game... Maybe he's improved ? Maybe he's totally over his injuries? Maybe he realised no one was going to sign him if he didn't impress ? I don't know.... But it's academic... We've offered him a contract and it appears he wants to go elsewhere .... He could go on to be an excellent championship player... But to give him another multi year contract would be a right gamble I m o ... His brother Lewis ran up about one season worth of games in seven seasons as a pro... My gut reaction is Oscar might be a similar case.. Time will tell ..
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