iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
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Post by iangreaves on Jun 29, 2018 16:52:38 GMT 1
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jun 29, 2018 17:20:19 GMT 1
I was in the box for a day and a half once.. they asked me questions about the 'incident' and about my training and experience...granted they asked the same questions in about 20 different ways but thats courts for you.. this bloke was questioned about policies for hours, he did not make the policies, he could not know what was going on in command rooms elsewhere. he was on scene etc etc etc.. it goes on and on.. if and when they get 'policy makers' into the box, we might get somewhere, if they question those running command rooms and cross examine the joint officers in charge it might be a fucking help.. Galph ..... I’ve been in the box many many times. I’m not saying it’s a good system. What I want to say is Hillsborough and Grenfell we’re tragic but no one set out on those respective mornings rubbing their hands thinking ' it’ll be good to kill a few people today'. It’s about procedures not prosecutions. absolutely not.. duckinfield will have run it the same as it was always run, on a wing and a prayer in a shitty old stadium with all the problems that ever semi final had before this one went badly wrong.. I said before and will say again, he did not have the authority or the contacts to set up the huge cover up as quickly, as widespread and as effective as it was and for so long.. The others charged are also reasonably 'minor players'... the hillsborough and grenfell tragedies were in the making for a long time, the players on the day were part of that build up that just happened to be there when the shit hit the fan.. |
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bogart
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by bogart on Jun 29, 2018 17:36:53 GMT 1
The whole Grenfell Tower enquiry is a farce.Celotex the people who made the cladding, actually owned by St Gobain a french firm had profits in mind when stating untruths about its fire resistance. Dame Judith Hackett the person tasked with doing an "independent" review of the building regs and associated fire safety after Grenfell suggested changes but never said that there should be a ban on combustable material used for cladding. Fat load of use that was then. Oh and by the way who was on the panel making suggestions to this Dame, namely one Mike Chaldecott who just so happens to be the UK chief executive of, yes you have guessed it, Saint Gobain UK. Unbelievable but true!
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jun 29, 2018 17:37:00 GMT 1
Galph ..... I’ve been in the box many many times. I’m not saying it’s a good system. What I want to say is Hillsborough and Grenfell we’re tragic but no one set out on those respective mornings rubbing their hands thinking ' it’ll be good to kill a few people today'. It’s about procedures not prosecutions. absolutely not.. duckinfield will have run it the same as it was always run, on a wing and a prayer in a shitty old stadium with all the problems that ever semi final had before this one went badly wrong.. I said before and will say again, he did not have the authority or the contacts to set up the huge cover up as quickly, as widespread and as effective as it was and for so long.. The others charged are also reasonably 'minor players'... the hillsborough and grenfell tragedies were in the making for a long time, the players on the day were part of that build up that just happened to be there when the shit hit the fan.. Who are you referring to? The Masons (this was the majority of the police force anyway at this time), the illuminati or just the good old establishment? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 17:50:10 GMT 1
The thing is something like this or similar to this will happen time and time again.
We need to learn from the mistakes made.
With Hillsborough we definitely have.
With Grenfell we definitely will.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 17:55:28 GMT 1
I was in the box for a day and a half once.. they asked me questions about the 'incident' and about my training and experience...granted they asked the same questions in about 20 different ways but thats courts for you.. this bloke was questioned about policies for hours, he did not make the policies, he could not know what was going on in command rooms elsewhere. he was on scene etc etc etc.. it goes on and on.. if and when they get 'policy makers' into the box, we might get somewhere, if they question those running command rooms and cross examine the joint officers in charge it might be a fucking help.. The politicians and the billionaires they are working for - the people who knowingly allowed flammable cladding to be put on those buildings because the people living there were deemed to be of no value - will never be held accountable. It was obviously the fault of the bloody firemen who ran into the blazing building to save lives regardless of the death trap created by those who will walk away without punishment. And for those who reckon the bloke in charge of the inquiry will be OK because he's a judge - bollocks. The judges mix in the same bloody circles as the politicians. How many judge-led inquiries have we seen that have been there simply to sweep everything under the carpet. I agree with most of this. Sadly, vested and corporate interests have a lot to say in these matters, and where there is enough money and reputation at stake it effectively becomes a matter of national interest. Judges can be compromised. Credit to the Liverpool folk for fighting on patiently against the odds. As has been said by many on this subject matter, the cover up probably goes very high. Duckenfield might get held out to dry just to protect others, although there was no doubt a lot of Police incompetence involved. Similar but obviously less serious incidents occurred a few years earlier, so lessons should have been learned. There really were no excuses. The Guardian have gone into considerable detail on all this. www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decadesVIDEO embed.theguardian.com/embed/video/uk-news/video/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-video |
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Post by drfootball on Jun 29, 2018 18:02:15 GMT 1
The Government stooges running the Grenfell Inquiry are going out of their way to try to pin the blame on the firefighters. Bloody disgraceful. It is unlikely I think that the Chairman would permit unfair questioning as he is an experienced Judge. The union may not like it but so what. unfortunately or fortunately, it’s an “enquiry “ not a court case , so the chairman has a lot less powers and is almost there as an observer. In a court case there are obviously very strict rules around giving evidence and subsequent cross examination. Not so in an enquiry, it’s open season they can ask the guy what colour socks he had on if they want. My experience of them is , on occasions they allow the flexibility a court rooom could not and it allows a greater degree of truth to come out. Other occasions it’s a free for all mess. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jun 29, 2018 18:12:06 GMT 1
The politicians and the billionaires they are working for - the people who knowingly allowed flammable cladding to be put on those buildings because the people living there were deemed to be of no value - will never be held accountable. It was obviously the fault of the bloody firemen who ran into the blazing building to save lives regardless of the death trap created by those who will walk away without punishment. And for those who reckon the bloke in charge of the inquiry will be OK because he's a judge - bollocks. The judges mix in the same bloody circles as the politicians. How many judge-led inquiries have we seen that have been there simply to sweep everything under the carpet. I agree with most of this. Sadly, vested and corporate interests have a lot to say in these matters, and where there is enough money and reputation at stake it effectively becomes a matter of national interest. Judges can be compromised. Credit to the Liverpool folk for fighting on patiently against the odds. As has been said by many on this subject matter, the cover up probably goes very high. Duckenfield might get held out to dry just to protect others, although there was no doubt a lot of Police incompetence involved. A similar incident almost occurred a year or so earlier, so lessons should have been learned. There really were no excuses. The Guardian have gone into considerable detail on all this. www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decadesVIDEO embed.theguardian.com/embed/video/uk-news/video/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-videowe will always make deadly mistakes, its human.. the lies that last decades is something that we can stop.. people will die again in tragedies because we just cannot see them all coming and plan long beforehand to stop them or even to lessen the impact of some.. the speed of life adds daily to the probability that something terrible will occur again.. the cover ups afterwards merely add time and confusion to our ability to plan to stop another 'like' this one happening.. The real crime is covering up, lying or laying off blame.. The honest truth is people will die again some way because we can't make life totally safe and for everything we spend our money on a load of other things with 'potential' for great harm don't get seen to.. having taken 'delivery' of a load of kit that was outdated, broken and just mostly useless, I am aware that the consignment order held here was very different.. You can fight it but they will shit all over you from some height and its just a wait till the kit is proved u/s and that means someones life is needed to push the media into publicising the 'facts'.. the 96 are not alone in the web of deceit, penny pinching and monetary 'diversion' going on and then being lied to their faces.. |
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by mallyb on Jun 29, 2018 18:32:56 GMT 1
[/quote]
The politicians and the billionaires they are working for - the people who knowingly allowed flammable cladding to be put on those buildings because the people living there were deemed to be of no value - will never be held accountable. It was obviously the fault of the bloody firemen who ran into the blazing building to save lives regardless of the death trap created by those who will walk away without punishment. And for those who reckon the bloke in charge of the inquiry will be OK because he's a judge - bollocks. The judges mix in the same bloody circles as the politicians. How many judge-led inquiries have we seen that have been there simply to sweep everything under the carpet.[/quote]
What about the fireman that told people to stay in their flats when the fire wasn’t behaving as they expected? What about the fact that the Hillsborough enquiry only reached the conclusion it did once you started ignoring certain facts, not because they weren’t true but because there are ways the police could have dealt with things with the clarity of hindsight that would have prevented the tragedy despite what the Liverpool fans were doing. The firemen made decisions to the best of their ability in a difficult situations n that turned out to cost lives. The police did the same but I don’t hear you blaming the designer of the fences, or Sheffield City council.
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Post by Manx Terrier on Jun 29, 2018 19:05:21 GMT 1
It is unlikely I think that the Chairman would permit unfair questioning as he is an experienced Judge. The union may not like it but so what. unfortunately or fortunately, it’s an “enquiry “ not a court case , so the chairman has a lot less powers and is almost there as an observer. In a court case there are obviously very strict rules around giving evidence and subsequent cross examination. Not so in an enquiry, it’s open season they can ask the guy what colour socks he had on if they want. My experience of them is , on occasions they allow the flexibility a court rooom could not and it allows a greater degree of truth to come out. Other occasions it’s a free for all mess. I suppose you could argue a Chairman with scientific expertise might be better than a Judge in this case. I am not sure and don't know enough about what is involved. Bit here [113 to 120] about the advantages and disadvantages of having a Judge as the Chairman of a Public Enquiry publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldselect/ldinquiries/143/14307.htmSome info here about powers / procedure file:///D:/Download%20new/emily-carter-ihl-article-public-inquiries-striking-the-balance.pdf |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Jun 29, 2018 20:53:24 GMT 1
I would imagine the Grenfell campaigners have been talking to the H'boro campaigners to ensure their cases are addressed in the correct timeframe
It was also a good point made by someone in the FBU who suggested that the inquiry should have started the other way round, e.g. decisions made to use that panelling, why risk assessments weren't amended on the back of it. Instead they kick off focusing on the people who have suffered the most, family members of victims and firemen probably struggling with PTSD... By the time they get round to the root cause chain of events theyll have pieced together the best defence story they can engineer...
Just like those poor buggers at that hospital in Gosport, it takes a lot to get past this corrupt system of ours...
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Post by morleyterrier on Jun 29, 2018 21:37:46 GMT 1
We will be talking about this forever.
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Post by mayorofcov (BFHB) Honours on Jun 29, 2018 21:48:46 GMT 1
We will be talking about this forever. But some of us really know wat fooking happened |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 10:49:09 GMT 1
we will always make deadly mistakes, its human.. the lies that last decades is something that we can stop.. people will die again in tragedies because we just cannot see them all coming and plan long beforehand to stop them or even to lessen the impact of some.. the speed of life adds daily to the probability that something terrible will occur again.. the cover ups afterwards merely add time and confusion to our ability to plan to stop another 'like' this one happening.. The real crime is covering up, lying or laying off blame.. The honest truth is people will die again some way because we can't make life totally safe and for everything we spend our money on a load of other things with 'potential' for great harm don't get seen to.. having taken 'delivery' of a load of kit that was outdated, broken and just mostly useless, I am aware that the consignment order held here was very different.. You can fight it but they will shit all over you from some height and its just a wait till the kit is proved u/s and that means someones life is needed to push the media into publicising the 'facts'.. the 96 are not alone in the web of deceit, penny pinching and monetary 'diversion' going on and then being lied to their faces.. Bad things happen, sure, and we have to try and learn from them. If you watch the video link, however, you will see that some very basic procedures and precautions based on previous experience were ignored. This was incompetence, arrogance, and stupidity on a grand scale, not to mention the ensuing cover up. embed.theguardian.com/embed/video/uk-news/video/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-video |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jun 30, 2018 11:51:58 GMT 1
we will always make deadly mistakes, its human.. the lies that last decades is something that we can stop.. people will die again in tragedies because we just cannot see them all coming and plan long beforehand to stop them or even to lessen the impact of some.. the speed of life adds daily to the probability that something terrible will occur again.. the cover ups afterwards merely add time and confusion to our ability to plan to stop another 'like' this one happening.. The real crime is covering up, lying or laying off blame.. The honest truth is people will die again some way because we can't make life totally safe and for everything we spend our money on a load of other things with 'potential' for great harm don't get seen to.. having taken 'delivery' of a load of kit that was outdated, broken and just mostly useless, I am aware that the consignment order held here was very different.. You can fight it but they will shit all over you from some height and its just a wait till the kit is proved u/s and that means someones life is needed to push the media into publicising the 'facts'.. the 96 are not alone in the web of deceit, penny pinching and monetary 'diversion' going on and then being lied to their faces.. Bad things happen, sure, and we have to try and learn from them. If you watch the video link, however, you will see that some very basic procedures and precautions based on previous experience were ignored. This was incompetence, arrogance, and stupidity on a grand scale, not to mention the ensuing cover up. embed.theguardian.com/embed/video/uk-news/video/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-video seen the cctv probably more than a dozen times, in total, in full... |
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Post by Manx Terrier on Jun 30, 2018 12:27:26 GMT 1
we will always make deadly mistakes, its human.. the lies that last decades is something that we can stop.. people will die again in tragedies because we just cannot see them all coming and plan long beforehand to stop them or even to lessen the impact of some.. the speed of life adds daily to the probability that something terrible will occur again.. the cover ups afterwards merely add time and confusion to our ability to plan to stop another 'like' this one happening.. The real crime is covering up, lying or laying off blame.. The honest truth is people will die again some way because we can't make life totally safe and for everything we spend our money on a load of other things with 'potential' for great harm don't get seen to.. having taken 'delivery' of a load of kit that was outdated, broken and just mostly useless, I am aware that the consignment order held here was very different.. You can fight it but they will shit all over you from some height and its just a wait till the kit is proved u/s and that means someones life is needed to push the media into publicising the 'facts'.. the 96 are not alone in the web of deceit, penny pinching and monetary 'diversion' going on and then being lied to their faces.. Bad things happen, sure, and we have to try and learn from them. If you watch the video link, however, you will see that some very basic procedures and precautions based on previous experience were ignored. This was incompetence, arrogance, and stupidity on a grand scale, not to mention the ensuing cover up. embed.theguardian.com/embed/video/uk-news/video/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-video The only way people will learn is if those responsible are hunted down and given a proper punishment as a deterrent. Probably unlikely in our blame free society. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jun 30, 2018 13:07:09 GMT 1
Bad things happen, sure, and we have to try and learn from them. If you watch the video link, however, you will see that some very basic procedures and precautions based on previous experience were ignored. This was incompetence, arrogance, and stupidity on a grand scale, not to mention the ensuing cover up. embed.theguardian.com/embed/video/uk-news/video/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquiry-anatomy-of-a-disaster-video The only way people will learn is if those responsible are hunted down and given a proper punishment as a deterrent. Probably unlikely in our blame free society. its likely that Duckinfield will be submitting medical evidence shortly that will bar him pleading.. I already have a suspicion that this will have been known to the judge that removed the prosecution barring.. Lets see.. |
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Post by Gag N Bone Man on Aug 21, 2018 11:04:38 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45258766Hillsborough charges against Sir Norman Bettison dropped "A former chief inspector accused of trying to blame Liverpool fans for the 1989 Hillsborough disaster has had all charges against him dropped. Sir Norman Bettison, then of South Yorkshire Police, had faced four counts of misconduct in a public office. He was accused of telling lies about the "culpability of fans" and his role in the wake of the tragedy. Prosecutors said insufficient evidence meant there was no real prospect of securing a conviction. The Crown Prosecution Service said because of changes in the evidence of two witnesses, and the death of a third, it would discontinue the case. The decision was taken following a review of the evidence and was confirmed at a hearing at Preston Crown Court. Five others, including match commander David Duckenfield who is accused of manslaughter by gross negligence of 95 fans, are due to face trial next year."
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 21, 2018 11:19:44 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45258766Hillsborough charges against Sir Norman Bettison dropped "A former chief inspector accused of trying to blame Liverpool fans for the 1989 Hillsborough disaster has had all charges against him dropped. Sir Norman Bettison, then of South Yorkshire Police, had faced four counts of misconduct in a public office. He was accused of telling lies about the "culpability of fans" and his role in the wake of the tragedy. Prosecutors said insufficient evidence meant there was no real prospect of securing a conviction. The Crown Prosecution Service said because of changes in the evidence of two witnesses, and the death of a third, it would discontinue the case. The decision was taken following a review of the evidence and was confirmed at a hearing at Preston Crown Court. Five others, including match commander David Duckenfield who is accused of manslaughter by gross negligence of 95 fans, are due to face trial next year." with Norman it was always going to end this way.. Duckinfield is taking the fall for this in total on the policing side and the 'aftermath' side simply because those who 'instigated' the cover up were far above both officers in pay grade and influence. not to get into any libel arguments you can easily 'make up' the rest of the reasons for this judgement.. Duckinfield is not a well man, which adds to what you and I just 'made up'... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 12:07:08 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45258766Hillsborough charges against Sir Norman Bettison dropped "A former chief inspector accused of trying to blame Liverpool fans for the 1989 Hillsborough disaster has had all charges against him dropped. Sir Norman Bettison, then of South Yorkshire Police, had faced four counts of misconduct in a public office. He was accused of telling lies about the "culpability of fans" and his role in the wake of the tragedy. Prosecutors said insufficient evidence meant there was no real prospect of securing a conviction. The Crown Prosecution Service said because of changes in the evidence of two witnesses, and the death of a third, it would discontinue the case. The decision was taken following a review of the evidence and was confirmed at a hearing at Preston Crown Court. Five others, including match commander David Duckenfield who is accused of manslaughter by gross negligence of 95 fans, are due to face trial next year." with Norman it was always going to end this way.. Duckinfield is taking the fall for this in total on the policing side and the 'aftermath' side simply because those who 'instigated' the cover up were far above both officers in pay grade and influence. not to get into any libel arguments you can easily 'make up' the rest of the reasons for this judgement.. Duckinfield is not a well man, which adds to what you and I just 'made up'... He should never have been in charge that day. He’d never overseen a football match of that size before. He had no idea what he was doing and his ignorance killed everyone. Whoever placed him there should face prosecution. As a Care provider if I put a manager in charge of someone’s care and they give them wrong medication or similar because they’ve never managed someone’s care before then I would be prosecuted. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 21, 2018 12:13:23 GMT 1
Still a “Sir” . Sums up our country
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 12:16:06 GMT 1
He knows what he did or didn't say. He also knows what he did or didn't do. He has had to live with this and he will have to continue to live with this for the rest of his life.
Unless he is a complete egomaniac, his life must be a living hell.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 21, 2018 12:21:15 GMT 1
with Norman it was always going to end this way.. Duckinfield is taking the fall for this in total on the policing side and the 'aftermath' side simply because those who 'instigated' the cover up were far above both officers in pay grade and influence. not to get into any libel arguments you can easily 'make up' the rest of the reasons for this judgement.. Duckinfield is not a well man, which adds to what you and I just 'made up'... He should never have been in charge that day. He’d never overseen a football match of that size before. He had no idea what he was doing and his ignorance killed everyone. Whoever placed him there should face prosecution. As a Care provider if I put a manager in charge of someone’s care and they give them wrong medication or similar because they’ve never managed someone’s care before then I would be prosecuted. the issue of the match itself is not in question.. lots of games were horrendously organised in relation to public safety and lots of organisations and probably single persons were responsible for them along with this one. They got away with it for ages until this one, thats all.. That the match commander was utterly incompetent and the communication just broke down totally has not been an issue for a long time in truth. the aftermath was never a 'police led' conspiracy, it was too quick, too well organised , far too big and kept going for far too long for that. As I said in lots of other posts re this is that those who led the cover ups and the blocking of any real enquiry were well above a couple of middle ranking policemen. Lots of vested interests that were well above covering police incompetence were at work. 5 blokes is a tip of an iceberg here and the length of time that the covering up has lasted means simply that serious influence has always been at work. the 'latest' judgement was imo, always going to be the case. Influence or knowledge or both is power? |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 21, 2018 12:23:06 GMT 1
He knows what he did or didn't say. He also knows what he did or didn't do. He has had to live with this and he will have to continue to live with this for the rest of his life. Unless he is a complete egomaniac, his life must be a living hell. I agree . Whether these folks serve time after all these years is irrelevant to me ( though maybe not to the family of the victims ) I fear though that “Sir Norman” may be the egomaniac you allude to |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 12:47:57 GMT 1
He knows what he did or didn't say. He also knows what he did or didn't do. He has had to live with this and he will have to continue to live with this for the rest of his life. Unless he is a complete egomaniac, his life must be a living hell. I agree . Whether these folks serve time after all these years is irrelevant to me ( though maybe not to the family of the victims ) I fear though that “Sir Norman” may be the egomaniac you allude to |
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on Aug 21, 2018 12:53:50 GMT 1
with Norman it was always going to end this way.. Duckinfield is taking the fall for this in total on the policing side and the 'aftermath' side simply because those who 'instigated' the cover up were far above both officers in pay grade and influence. not to get into any libel arguments you can easily 'make up' the rest of the reasons for this judgement.. Duckinfield is not a well man, which adds to what you and I just 'made up'... He should never have been in charge that day. He’d never overseen a football match of that size before. He had no idea what he was doing and his ignorance killed everyone. Whoever placed him there should face prosecution. As a Care provider if I put a manager in charge of someone’s care and they give them wrong medication or similar because they’ve never managed someone’s care before then I would be prosecuted. In one of the many documentaries I have seen, I seem to recall he was given every opportunity to obtain advice from the previous commander on how to control incoming Liverpool fans before they got to the gates, ie. filtering them to avoid the crush that resulted in the gates being opened, but failed to do so, persumably out of sheer arrogance...allegedly.
That said, having read testimonies from Spurs fans at Leppings Lane in an earlier semi-final against Wolves, they also said they were almost crushed to death
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 21, 2018 13:11:34 GMT 1
He should never have been in charge that day. He’d never overseen a football match of that size before. He had no idea what he was doing and his ignorance killed everyone. Whoever placed him there should face prosecution. As a Care provider if I put a manager in charge of someone’s care and they give them wrong medication or similar because they’ve never managed someone’s care before then I would be prosecuted. In one of the many documentaries I have seen, I seem to recall he was given every opportunity to obtain advice from the previous commander on how to control incoming Liverpool fans before they got to the gates, ie. filtering them to avoid the crush that resulted in the gates being opened, but failed to do so, persumably out of sheer arrogance...allegedly.
That said, having read testimonies from Spurs fans at Leppings Lane in an earlier semi-final against Wolves, they also said they were almost crushed to death
leeds fans had the same problems..put too many into too small a space, room elsewhere no moving of fans, let it go as nothing serious happened? by the way, every opportunity to obtain advice is easily provided in hindsight?? there were many, many people involved in the poor running of big sporting events then and now.. once it goes 'wrong' the first thing is to try to cover yourself.. The 'filtering' procedures worked on occasions but not on others etc, as long as nothing serious happens let it go..? going back over the incident itself is long past and clearly lessons were learnt, its the aftermath that as per todays judgement ,seems we will never 'get' those responsible just the ones chosen to take all the blame? |
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Post by taskmaster on Aug 21, 2018 13:17:02 GMT 1
Worth noting that the CPS have issued the following. Some on here should take heed.
"There are five other defendants and each has the right to a fair trial. It is therefore extremely important that there should be no reporting, commentary or sharing of information which could in any way prejudice those proceedings"
A kind way of saying, don't post shit on online forums so their lawyers can claim a mistrial.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 13:23:02 GMT 1
Worth noting that the CPS have issued the following. Some on here should take heed. "There are five other defendants and each has the right to a fair trial. It is therefore extremely important that there should be no reporting, commentary or sharing of information which could in any way prejudice those proceedings" A kind way of saying, don't post shit on online forums so their lawyers can claim a mistrial. How realistic is that? Honestly? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2018 13:24:56 GMT 1
He knows what he did or didn't say. He also knows what he did or didn't do. He has had to live with this and he will have to continue to live with this for the rest of his life. Unless he is a complete egomaniac, his life must be a living hell. I agree . Whether these folks serve time after all these years is irrelevant to me ( though maybe not to the family of the victims ) I fear though that “Sir Norman” may be the egomaniac you allude to So do I. There was culture in the police at that time, deference superiority and big anti football hooligan sentiment which all played a part in the football SUPPORTERS deaths. 30 years on and what has really changed in the upper echelons of society. The money and the power remain with the rich & powerful and they still don’t give a damn about the poor. Not football supporters this time just poor people who’s shitty building was unsightly for those travelling past. So they lined each other’s pockets with some massively flammable but very cheap product. (It was cheap because no one would buy it because it was massively flammable & everyone knew this) Totally inept public procurement combined with ruthless private sector criminals, add in a fire officer who had no idea how to tackle a blaze in a tower block- he hadn’t even had basic training in this field and you wind up with more people effectively murdered. No one gave a shit. No one had checked the building to confirm compartmentation was still valid. Something like 80% of internal fire doors had been replaced by yes you’ve guessed it- cheap shit doors with no fire resistance. They then actively sent the remaining inhabitants up to the top floor to be burnt alive even when many could still have escaped at that time as the useless fire officer persisted with enforcing horizontal evacuation when it was painfully fucking clear compartmentation had failed. The whole fucking building was a raging inferno. Going to prison for these deaths should be members of the home office, public sector workers who brokered the appalling deal, all the heads of companies involved in the ‘refurbishment’, the chief fire officer who sent a rookie to the scene and no one else and the fire officer at the scene who had no idea what he was doing and made criminally negligent decisions in the night. I felt sorry for him in interviews but fire officers job is to react at the scene not clindky follow procedure when your eyes tell you everything you need to know. How many will actually face prosecution. I’ll have a bet- none of ‘em. |
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