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Post by townrwe on Jan 6, 2019 11:23:27 GMT 1
We bought 2 actual wingers... who haven't really been given the chance to deliver.
Mbenza and Diakhaby. Their pace would terrify many outside the top 6. We then needed to improve on Pritchard, he's a top championship footballer, but bang average pram player. If we did that, I'm not sure we needed to replace Mounie in an attacking sense, but I would have done because of his lack or pressing and work ethic.
The major problem is a front 3 of Mbenza, Diakhaby and Mounie would score goals, but the counter press would be non-existent and that is what Wagner fears most.
But.... he should by now have abandoned that and utilised the strengths and qualities of the players he has. All he is interested in is been hard to play against, but it's winning that counts.
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Post by townrwe on Jan 6, 2019 11:30:43 GMT 1
Spurs at home last season. After that, the manager changed the way we played. The results have been horrid ever since. Stupid thing is we bossed that game for the first 15 mins and we gifted 4 goals all mistakes and the rest is history. We have gifted 90% of the goals since. |
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Post by artysid on Jan 6, 2019 12:33:42 GMT 1
Have there been signs that the Players and Management were moving away from the fans this season and buying into the billy big bollox premier league syndrome.
- plans to move the fans away from Canalside
- moving gym users, bowls players, etc
- How many Q&A evenings have there been this season compared to previous?
Or is it just my imagination?
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 7, 2019 0:03:20 GMT 1
Point 1. of eight. 1. The front-man. Not been addressed properly since Jordan Rhodes left. In surviving with the lowest number of goals ever scored in the Prem we should have made a striker (or two) the top priority. If you do not score you can get a maximum 38 points. The reality is you opponents will score in at least 65% of matches and you will end the season with 11 or 12 points. If you average a goal a game you have a 50% survival chance....these are simplistic scenarios but the conclusion is obvious. We have spent £45 million this season...it should have been firstly on a striker. absolutely correct, its a doddle buying premier league strikers. spend 45 million on a striker and you are guaranteed to stay up. Honest definitely, guaranteed, no doubt, it is easy. Deans just being daft. If only he knew how to run a business and make millions. |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 7, 2019 0:04:18 GMT 1
Have there been signs that the Players and Management were moving away from the fans this season and buying into the billy big bollox premier league syndrome. - plans to move the fans away from Canalside - moving gym users, bowls players, etc - How many Q&A evenings have there been this season compared to previous? Or is it just my imagination? your imagination, the set up was flawed. |
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Jan 7, 2019 0:24:08 GMT 1
Have there been signs that the Players and Management were moving away from the fans this season and buying into the billy big bollox premier league syndrome. - plans to move the fans away from Canalside - moving gym users, bowls players, etc - How many Q&A evenings have there been this season compared to previous? Or is it just my imagination? your imagination, the set up was flawed. Agree. Investment in a good standard professional training ground is the right thing to do. Plenty of other places to go for a drink before a match, gym etc. Had we paid £20 mill for Solanke and neglected the training ground I'd say that would be losing touch. It's not ALL bad at Town. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jan 7, 2019 7:04:24 GMT 1
Point 1. of eight. 1. The front-man. Not been addressed properly since Jordan Rhodes left. In surviving with the lowest number of goals ever scored in the Prem we should have made a striker (or two) the top priority. If you do not score you can get a maximum 38 points. The reality is you opponents will score in at least 65% of matches and you will end the season with 11 or 12 points. If you average a goal a game you have a 50% survival chance....these are simplistic scenarios but the conclusion is obvious. We have spent £45 million this season...it should have been firstly on a striker. absolutely correct, its a doddle buying premier league strikers. spend 45 million on a striker and you are guaranteed to stay up. Honest definitely, guaranteed, no doubt, it is easy. Deans just being daft. If only he knew how to run a business and make millions. Seems like all the other teams have strikers. Did not say it was a doddle, a start might be actually just signing one instead of 4 wingers. If Deano lived another 50 lives he would not achieve the same business success. There are no serially successful entrepreneurs in the same way as there are no serially successful managers. Soros gets it wrong most of the time. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 7:09:50 GMT 1
We bought 2 actual wingers... who haven't really been given the chance to deliver. Mbenza and Diakhaby. Their pace would terrify many outside the top 6. We then needed to improve on Pritchard, he's a top championship footballer, but bang average pram player. If we did that, I'm not sure we needed to replace Mounie in an attacking sense, but I would have done because of his lack or pressing and work ethic. The major problem is a front 3 of Mbenza, Diakhaby and Mounie would score goals, but the counter press would be non-existent and that is what Wagner fears most. But.... he should by now have abandoned that and utilised the strengths and qualities of the players he has. All he is interested in is been hard to play against, but it's winning that counts. Really? name one prem team where he would get in as their number 10? He has delivered next to no goal and no assists for us in 12 months. I'd be looking at getting rid now or summer irresepctive of which league we're in. At 5'4 (?) i think you need great strength, pace or a wizard of a pass and he has neither. |
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Post by dugnet on Jan 7, 2019 11:44:38 GMT 1
We've had the 3 best seasons in the last 3 generations, we have seen consistent full houses, the best atmosphere at games, taken 40k to Wembley, have a sound financial base, stability across the club and we are looking to improve our infrastructure....not sure it's all gone wrong really.
However....From a purely footballing front we need a plan to try and repeat and sustain what we have enjoyed. Lessons across recruitment, financial structure (for the team ie can we sustain the level of football and footballers we need) and on the pitch?
It will have all been for nought if we are a lower Championship club who slip into League 1.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 7, 2019 21:32:00 GMT 1
absolutely correct, its a doddle buying premier league strikers. spend 45 million on a striker and you are guaranteed to stay up. Honest definitely, guaranteed, no doubt, it is easy. Deans just being daft. If only he knew how to run a business and make millions. Seems like all the other teams have strikers. Did not say it was a doddle, a start might be actually just signing one instead of 4 wingers. If Deano lived another 50 lives he would not achieve the same business success. There are no serially successful entrepreneurs in the same way as there are no serially successful managers. Soros gets it wrong most of the time. I dont know how close you are to the club, do you really think Dave and Dean haven't been trying / didn't know our problem? It is a little insulting to their intellectfor anyone to infer they have deliberately ignored the obvious We can not afford a £50 million pound gamble. End of debate from my side. |
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Post by COWleySHED on Jan 8, 2019 0:02:51 GMT 1
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Post by lancsterrier on Jan 8, 2019 0:45:49 GMT 1
Point 1. of eight. 1. The front-man. Not been addressed properly since Jordan Rhodes left. In surviving with the lowest number of goals ever scored in the Prem we should have made a striker (or two) the top priority. If you do not score you can get a maximum 38 points. The reality is you opponents will score in at least 65% of matches and you will end the season with 11 or 12 points. If you average a goal a game you have a 50% survival chance....these are simplistic scenarios but the conclusion is obvious. We have spent £45 million this season...it should have been firstly on a striker. Some think it hasnt but then there is no accounting for what some think. The thing is some prefer bottom of the league to mid table, its a overpaid, overrated, talentless, useless is good mentality thats common today in sport, media and politics. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jan 8, 2019 5:54:21 GMT 1
Seems like all the other teams have strikers. Did not say it was a doddle, a start might be actually just signing one instead of 4 wingers. If Deano lived another 50 lives he would not achieve the same business success. There are no serially successful entrepreneurs in the same way as there are no serially successful managers. Soros gets it wrong most of the time. I dont know how close you are to the club, do you really think Dave and Dean haven't been trying / didn't know our problem? It is a little insulting to their intellectfor anyone to infer they have deliberately ignored the obvious We can not afford a £50 million pound gamble. End of debate from my side. With the greatest respect. You survive with the lowest goals total in Premiership history (possibly the lowest total in any British league ever i suspect) and you DONT sign a striker? Every club in the world has two or 3 at least. There are thousands out there. Even a punt on two £5 million East European strikers might have done the trick....to sign no-one was appalling, and yes, thats ignoring the obvious.....and sleep-walking. It was clear last season the Del Potro and Mounie were no great shakes. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jan 8, 2019 6:01:52 GMT 1
The earliest ever relegation was 29th March (Derby). Another bad record we could likely break.
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johnr
Chris Hay Terrier
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Post by johnr on Jan 8, 2019 7:33:04 GMT 1
Back to the usual blames/excuses given, anything but blame Wagner. Blaming the strikers or players bought in summer as always happens by those seeking to avoid blaming Wagner,putting him first before the Club, no matter what. WE VE NOT CREATED ENOUGH CLEAR CHANCES SO HOW DO YOU EXPECT STRIKERS TO SCORE MANY when they get so few chances at all,so are under enormous pressure any time they get a chance,and when out of those rare chances very few are clear cut chances ? And this problem scoring has been going on a lot longer than the current strikers or from when diakahby,Mbenza etc came in, its been going on ALL OF wagner s REIGN, AND YOU KNOW IT.So the obvious conclusion, Must be, that there is something wrong with Wagner's attacking tactics that we haven't scored enough in over 3 years. Its Wagner's attacking tactics that are to blame and nothing else.The answers are simple,attack much quicker,dont keep doing whats proven before so f often not to work,and vary how we attack boxes,to keep defences back peddling,and keep them guessing to be not so f predictable when we attack any more.
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johnr
Chris Hay Terrier
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Post by johnr on Jan 8, 2019 7:44:31 GMT 1
Has it gone wrong? We are in the highest league since 1972. If we go down, we are in the Championship - still great competitive football. Lack of ambition. And no, I've not just started supporting Town or am any kind of glory hunter or fair weather fan. Ive supported them for over 40 years,am aware how we ve been held back all our history till Dean by bad chairmen,and think our supporters have deserved better for a very long time so am more determined than you by the looks of it to hold onto our status and try to build further on it.Championship is good yes,but I strive to be higher like this club deserves not just because of all the talent and potential wasted over most of our over 100 years history and all the fans support that has been admired so much by clubs all over the land for a long time,BOTH THESE THINGS DESERVE US TO BE IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE IMO although if you dont do the right things no one has the god given right to be there and you have to fight for it and do the right things to stay there,but we also deserve to be there because of our crap chairmen betraying us is why two of the greedies famous histories began in the first place,IE Liverpool and Arsenal,ALSO WHATS THE F POINT BEING IN COMPETITIVE FOOTBALL IF YOU RE NOT AIMING TO TRY AND GET AS HIGH AS YOU CAN ? |
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johnr
Chris Hay Terrier
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Post by johnr on Jan 8, 2019 7:48:24 GMT 1
Has it gone wrong? We are in the highest league since 1972. If we go down, we are in the Championship - still great competitive football. I think people just look at the here and now (myself included). No some people just have a higher ambition and higher aim for the club than others.Were also more aware how great our support has been for a long time,especially away from home,for far longer than just the current pretend Cowshed,and how weve been held back by our boards almost all our history,and how weve deserved better for a long time. |
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hthtafs
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by hthtafs on Jan 8, 2019 8:03:09 GMT 1
3 Key factors
1 Lady Luck - We were bloody lucky in our promotion season and last season. If fixtures vs City & Chelsea had come at a more meaningful part of the season along with the palace opener we would of been relegated. That said we have been so unlucky this season realistically 5 points have fallen away largely as a result of misfortune.
2. A Forward who can score goals - has been required for 2 years, and has not been addressed.
3. Wagner - many will disagree with this, however I totally disagree with his desire to be centre of attention with celebrations. I’m sure the players in part resent it. It’s not the conduct of a top manager, it highlights how it has become a little bit too much about him. He is like Mourinho on speed. Seldom would you get a Ferguson celebrating like he does, certainly not after a mid season league win. He needs to be more aloof, His presence initially was great but after 2/3 years might have lost its impact. He’s not the greatest of coaches, but is a great motivator- the message I believe is now falling on tired ears. He needs to move on.
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Post by swam4mwg on Jan 8, 2019 8:56:06 GMT 1
Town have played far better football than last season, but have little quality in the final third. Added to the bad luck with the woodwork.
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 8, 2019 9:31:17 GMT 1
Town have played far better football than last season, but have little quality in the final third. Added to the bad luck with the woodwork. Yep, this seems to have been completely forgotten by the doom mongers. We have competed this season, ultimately ineffectively but to suggest we’ve been miles off is not true. |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Jan 8, 2019 9:39:35 GMT 1
I think people just look at the here and now (myself included). No some people just have a higher ambition and higher aim for the club than others.Were also more aware how great our support has been for a long time,especially away from home,for far longer than just the current pretend Cowshed,and how weve been held back by our boards almost all our history,and how we've deserved better for a long time.I was reading your reply then came up to this. What bloody right do you think we have to achieve anything? Everything achieved has to be done through bloody hard work and graft. Business decisions are taken by those in the know, are you going to say you know more than they do next? What would you do in their shoes? You say you know our history, but fail to mention us nearly going to the wall. Were you around back then? Maybe you were involved in the rescue of the club and put your money in to match your ideas? Did they agree with you? The club is what the club is. Yes we've had boards that could have done better but it is what it is. I'm glad you think you have higher ambition than the club, despite not knowing what Dean's ultimate ambition is. I think you should go to the next board meeting and lay down your ideas for all to see. I eagerly await a transcript of that. |
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Post by WirralTerrier on Jan 8, 2019 10:10:59 GMT 1
Town have played far better football than last season, but have little quality in the final third. Added to the bad luck with the woodwork. So we've played better football apart from in the final third. Erm that's a pretty big part of the pitch and quite important in terms of playing well and winning games. Yes we've got the woodwork but the majority of those have come from long range punts from players who haven't even scored a premier league goal before ie Hogg, lowe. Rather than it being unlucky it hit the bar and didnt go in, it's more a case of it was lucky it even hit the bar in the first place and didn't instead go in to row z. We've created less goalscoring chances than any other team in the prem. People say were unlucky but by that logic every other team is more unlucky than us. You can't be unlucky over 21 games or 41 if you go all the way back to when we started performing poorly. Like other posters have said, we pass it well and have a lot of possession compared to last year but that's mostly due to having 8 defensive players on the pitch and having lots and lots and lots of possession in our own half or outside the opponents area. I'd rather us have less possession but have wingers and pace on the pitch in forward areas causing problems for the opposition. Yes it may result in less possession, yes it may mean we aren't very solid defensively but w aren't at the moment anyway. At least it would make us more of a threat in the final third and give us a more likely chance of winning games and scoring goals. |
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johnr
Chris Hay Terrier
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Post by johnr on Jan 8, 2019 11:51:17 GMT 1
Wagner s been in charge all the time weve had scoring problems = Wagner s lack of or poor attacking tactics, and too many being sheep giving easy answers copy each other as they daren t stand out from the crowd to save Club from relegation in case they are the ones that get picked on instead, classic reasons why people usually just join in with the bullies wrong way of doing things rather than doing what is right these are all the genuine reasons genuinely that I think IMO have sent us down.
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Post by lochnessterrier on Jan 8, 2019 13:54:32 GMT 1
Wagner s been in charge all the time weve had scoring problems = Wagner s lack of or poor attacking tactics, and too many being sheep giving easy answers copy each other as they daren t stand out from the crowd to save Club from relegation in case they are the ones that get picked on instead, classic reasons why people usually just join in with the bullies wrong way of doing things rather than doing what is right these are all the genuine reasons genuinely that I think IMO have sent us down. Are they genuinely the genuine reasons genuinely? |
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sudbury
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by sudbury on Jan 8, 2019 18:48:21 GMT 1
Perhaps the writing was on the wall in pre-season at Accrington, but coaching staff were blind to it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 18:53:55 GMT 1
Perhaps the writing was on the wall in pre-season at Accrington, but coaching staff were blind to it Not at all, the entire coaching staff were censored for covering the walls in graffiti at Accrington! |
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Post by The King's Head 1230 on Jan 8, 2019 18:59:17 GMT 1
We missed out on that 3rd striking option. An Ashley Barnes or a Billy Sharpe type.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jan 8, 2019 19:40:07 GMT 1
I dont know how close you are to the club, do you really think Dave and Dean haven't been trying / didn't know our problem? It is a little insulting to their intellect for anyone to infer they have deliberately ignored the obvious We can not afford a £50 million pound gamble. End of debate from my side. With the greatest respect. You survive with the lowest goals total in Premiership history (possibly the lowest total in any British league ever i suspect) and you DONT sign a striker? Every club in the world has two or 3 at least. There are thousands out there. Even a punt on two £5 million East European strikers might have done the trick....to sign no-one was appalling, and yes, thats ignoring the obvious.....and sleep-walking. It was clear last season the Del Potro and Mounie were no great shakes. I refer the right honourable member (of DATM, no anatomical component intended) to my earlier answer |
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Post by marshterrier on Jan 8, 2019 20:16:15 GMT 1
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Post by arroloui on Jan 8, 2019 20:27:01 GMT 1
We missed out on that 3rd striking option. An Ashley Barnes or a Billy Sharpe type. I agree we should have pland for this window opening long ago, as we started the season with 2 strikers who can't strike.. |
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