alex
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:14]
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Post by alex on Dec 16, 2018 16:03:55 GMT 1
To make things clear, I know DH has stated his case, I also know how impossible the job is, however the forum is a place for expressing opinions.
I was amazed when we went up, having frozen my nuts off watching us play York in front of 3000 people, I never thought i would see our team in the best league in the world. At first, I was 'f&&k it, one season in the greedy league will give give us enough money to be stable and to allow us to compete in the championship'.
However, I have gotten used to the exposure and like the thought of supporting a Premiership team and am starting to think that loyalty in football can be an issue. Has DW taken us as far as he can? Is he out of his depth, or is he doing an impossible job? Could someone else do a better job, could we become a decent established Prem' side?
I'm sure of two things, if he stays the price for loyalty will be relegation. If we go down, we won't get back up. If it was me, i'd make the change, the stakes are too high. I'm not saying a change of management will definitely make the difference, but neither will doing nothing.
I'm interested in gauging the mood of other fans, it's not a WUM, but a genuine curiosity.
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Dec 16, 2018 16:11:11 GMT 1
He's a good manager, but the system is broken. That's what needs to change, not the manager.
Get rid of five at the back and defensive midfielders at home; pick attacking players - not for their defensive capabilities - and get out and attack teams.
I'm certain that we would have beaten Newcastle, Cardiff and Brighton if we'd adopted those tactics.
Five at the back and filling the team with defenders is taking us down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 16:13:18 GMT 1
He's a good manager, but the system is broken. That's what needs to change, not the manager. Get rid of five at the back and defensive midfielders at home; pick attacking players - not for their defensive capabilities - and get out and attack teams. I'm certain that we would have beaten Newcastle, Cardiff and Brighton if we'd adopted those tactics. Five at the back and filling the team with defenders is taking us down. if he's a good manger then why doesn't he do it |
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Post by El Mel on Dec 16, 2018 16:34:46 GMT 1
We're going down regardless, might as well keep him then re-assess ours, and let DW re-assess his position in the summer.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Dec 16, 2018 16:37:54 GMT 1
We are going down regardless and he'll leave at the end of this season anyway. Out of this current squad who will actually still be here in the championship?? Hogg, Smith, Williams, Pritchard, Bacuna? Maybe a couple more. We are in deep shit. 4 wingers on the bench yesterday we don't play with wingers  ... |
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Post by alexdire on Dec 16, 2018 16:48:01 GMT 1
We will get relegated and I think he'll choose to go back to Germany at the end of May.
I also think Schindler, Loewe, Kachunga, Lossl, and Zanka will be going back to play in Germany too.
Us getting relegated plus the work permit situation will make their minds up.
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Post by conman on Dec 16, 2018 17:00:54 GMT 1
We will get relegated and I think he'll choose to go back to Germany at the end of May. I also think Schindler, Loewe, Kachunga, Lossl, and Zanka will be going back to play in Germany too. Us getting relegated plus the work permit situation will make their minds up. I'm thinking exactly the same as you. I'm usually the optimist when it comes to Town, but after yesterday's defeat and our lack of scoring goals I think we're doomed.. |
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Post by Made In Yorkshire on Dec 16, 2018 17:05:29 GMT 1
Loyalty to one man is an unusual thing in a business where millions of pounds are at stake.
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ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,828
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Post by ambryboy on Dec 16, 2018 17:09:12 GMT 1
We will get relegated and I think he'll choose to go back to Germany at the end of May. I also think Schindler, Loewe, Kachunga, Lossl, and Zanka will be going back to play in Germany too. Us getting relegated plus the work permit situation will make their minds up. I thought that Zanka came to us from FC Copenhagen, other than that I am broadly in agreement.
Is Lee Clark free?, he could do a job  oops sorry I went all Nick for a moment there. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 17:14:47 GMT 1
Every season, three managers take their clubs from the Championship into the Prem.....not exactly an earth-shattering achievement. And some of those managers are subsequently found not to be up to the greater challenge of life at this level....no shame in that.
For one-and-a-half seasons now, both performances and League Table have been telling us that DW is struggling to keep his head above water. Time may tell whether he eventually proves to be deserving of his position in the Prem....but time is something which the club can increasingly ill afford to grant him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 22:54:21 GMT 1
Bring in two strikers for him in January. And watch the great escape II  |
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Post by willo on Dec 16, 2018 23:24:57 GMT 1
Stick or twist? Tricky one. Guess the question is who would and could we expect to replace him with? Big Sam has a (brief) history with us, certainly knows how to get teams out of relegation trouble & is available. We all love & respect DW for everything he’s achieved here but maybe he’s run out of ideas. Or maybe we just need the January window to get some strikers in. Any other previous Town manager on the run we’re on would have been shown the door by now, no doubt. It’s only his past reputation that is keeping him in the job right now.
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Post by lochnessterrier on Dec 17, 2018 9:49:48 GMT 1
Stick or twist? Tricky one. Guess the question is who would and could we expect to replace him with? Big Sam has a (brief) history with us, certainly knows how to get teams out of relegation trouble & is available. We all love & respect DW for everything he’s achieved here but maybe he’s run out of ideas. Or maybe we just need the January window to get some strikers in. Any other previous Town manager on the run we’re on would have been shown the door by now, no doubt. It’s only his past reputation that is keeping him in the job right now. ONLY his past reputation? Only the fact that when he joined us his single remit was to keep us in the Championship? Only the fact that he took an unfashionable club all the way to the promised land? Only the fact that he took a half empty stadium and packed it full. Only the fact that he ended our 45 year wait to see the top players on the country on a regular basis? Wagner is going nowhere and rightly so. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Dec 17, 2018 10:49:32 GMT 1
Wagner has not just kept the team up in the Championship. He has transformed the way the club thinks and developed the Club, not just the team. The reason we are building a £20m training complex is because he wasn't the money to afford it and agreed that for the long term benfit of the Club, it was better than spending it on a player.
The players that leave will do so because they attract substantial fees. Those players that stay will be good enough to compete in the Championship. Does anyone really think that if we go down we will have a worse squad than when we came up?
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 17, 2018 11:04:23 GMT 1
understood the methods used to get here.. understood quite a lot of the approach last season..
bit lost on the summer recruitment and the way we have played quite a few games this season..
January coming up, obvious requirements for the team/squad still outstanding..
Lets see what the club do...?
relegation might well be a yearly concern for the club even if we stay here for a decade..
other teams have come up, been in the fight or even comfortably mid table and then gone..
We do have the obvious 'advantage' that we have not spent into infinity and the future does appear brighter than many teams involved in the struggle to stay up or for that matter, to get up...
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Post by teddytheterrier on Dec 17, 2018 11:09:13 GMT 1
No idea how the happy clappers on here can't see that if we go down it will be a completely different team and squad here next season. Wagner will go back to Germany if we go down. And I'd imagine all the foreign players will go. I can genuinely on see Pritchard, Hogg, Smith and Bacuna here next season if we go down. No way will the majority of these players stay. We could potentially be in massive shit in the summer, I don't know how people can't see it.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Dec 17, 2018 11:15:37 GMT 1
If we go down he'll leave. Why wait?
We couldn't score in a brothel at the moment (without Mooy). It's like watching a team you hope don't conceed because you know chances are we will draw a blank.... again.
Will two strikers be enough? I'm not so sure. I think our system strangles us creatively up front.
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Post by Made In Yorkshire on Dec 17, 2018 11:23:15 GMT 1
No idea how the happy clappers on here can't see that if we go down it will be a completely different team and squad here next season. Wagner will go back to Germany if we go down. And I'd imagine all the foreign players will go. I can genuinely on see Pritchard, Hogg, Smith and Bacuna here next season if we go down. No way will the majority of these players stay. We could potentially be in massive shit in the summer, I don't know how people can't see it. And downwards momentum is often difficult to arrest. |
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Post by York Terrier on Dec 17, 2018 11:27:20 GMT 1
He's a good manager, but the system is broken. That's what needs to change, not the manager. Get rid of five at the back and defensive midfielders at home; pick attacking players - not for their defensive capabilities - and get out and attack teams. I'm certain that we would have beaten Newcastle, Cardiff and Brighton if we'd adopted those tactics. Five at the back and filling the team with defenders is taking us down. I definitely go to different games from everyone else please explain who these attackers are and why are they hiding. DW is fully aware that the only decent players we have are in the defence and midfield our attacking force is no existent. If we play ?.?..”?? and sacrifice Hogg or any defenders we will get pumped every game. I am not certain why we have not brought in better quality forwards ( probably due to the price of them) but the 5 3 2 System enabled us to stop up last year and we don’t have any other options at present. |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Dec 17, 2018 11:28:56 GMT 1
No idea how the happy clappers on here can't see that if we go down it will be a completely different team and squad here next season. Wagner will go back to Germany if we go down. And I'd imagine all the foreign players will go. I can genuinely on see Pritchard, Hogg, Smith and Bacuna here next season if we go down. No way will the majority of these players stay. We could potentially be in massive shit in the summer, I don't know how people can't see it. And downwards momentum is often difficult to arrest. losing has become a habit. |
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Post by teddytheterrier on Dec 17, 2018 11:31:21 GMT 1
And downwards momentum is often difficult to arrest. losing has become a habit. Thing is its not just losing either, we cant score goals. When the oppo scores first its instantly game over, we might aswell all go home. |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Dec 17, 2018 11:31:58 GMT 1
losing has become a habit. Thing is its not just losing either, we cant score goals. When the oppo scores first its instantly game over, we might aswell all go home. a lot did on saturday. |
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Post by WirralTerrier on Dec 17, 2018 11:39:52 GMT 1
Bring in two strikers for him in January. And watch the great escape II Why give him 2 strikers? He has rarely if ever started a game with 2 strikers since being at town. Add to that he's had plenty of time to pick a decent winger but we've made a mess if that. Now he's lost all confidence in being brave and making the opponent worry about us. He has unfortunately turned in to another dull manager that is way too worried about the opposition, worried about losing and therefore takes the safe option over and over again. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Wagner does the exact same thing week after week, nothing changes, it rarely works but he does the exact same thing again the next game and expects something different to happen. I just feel sad more than anything that he has become that way and we have become that negative, dull, unattractive team to watch. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Dec 17, 2018 11:48:40 GMT 1
Bring in two strikers for him in January. And watch the great escape II Why give him 2 strikers? He has rarely if ever started a game with 2 strikers since being at town. Add to that he's had plenty of time to pick a decent winger but we've made a mess if that. Now he's lost all confidence in being brave and making the opponent worry about us. He has unfortunately turned in to another dull manager that is way too worried about the opposition, worried about losing and therefore takes the safe option over and over again. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Wagner does the exact same thing week after week, nothing changes, it rarely works but he does the exact same thing again the next game and expects something different to happen. I just feel sad more than anything that he has become that way and we have become that negative, dull, unattractive team to watch. It's a tough league... I thought we carried the game to B'mouth the other week & arguably could do nothing other than try and contain Arsenal, which we very nearly did. 2 away games, 2 different sets of tactics from what I could see... Anyway, if we're talking about Wagner being dull, then maybe you could give him some tips? |
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Post by WirralTerrier on Dec 17, 2018 11:50:04 GMT 1
He's a good manager, but the system is broken. That's what needs to change, not the manager. Get rid of five at the back and defensive midfielders at home; pick attacking players - not for their defensive capabilities - and get out and attack teams. I'm certain that we would have beaten Newcastle, Cardiff and Brighton if we'd adopted those tactics. Five at the back and filling the team with defenders is taking us down. I definitely go to different games from everyone else please explain who these attackers are and why are they hiding. DW is fully aware that the only decent players we have are in the defence and midfield our attacking force is no existent. If we play ?.?..”?? and sacrifice Hogg or any defenders we will get pumped every game. I am not certain why we have not brought in better quality forwards ( probably due to the price of them) but the 5 3 2 System enabled us to stop up last year and we don’t have any other options at present. The 532 system enabled us to stop up? Did it? What games did we play that formation that won us many points? And you can't include man city and Chelsea in that as that was more like 811 formation for the majority of those games. Its a genuine question because I can't think of any. |
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Post by WirralTerrier on Dec 17, 2018 11:59:28 GMT 1
Why give him 2 strikers? He has rarely if ever started a game with 2 strikers since being at town. Add to that he's had plenty of time to pick a decent winger but we've made a mess if that. Now he's lost all confidence in being brave and making the opponent worry about us. He has unfortunately turned in to another dull manager that is way too worried about the opposition, worried about losing and therefore takes the safe option over and over again. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Wagner does the exact same thing week after week, nothing changes, it rarely works but he does the exact same thing again the next game and expects something different to happen. I just feel sad more than anything that he has become that way and we have become that negative, dull, unattractive team to watch. It's a tough league... I thought we carried the game to B'mouth the other week & arguably could do nothing other than try and contain Arsenal, which we very nearly did. 2 away games, 2 different sets of tactics from what I could see... Anyway, if we're talking about Wagner being dull, then maybe you could give him some tips? We played well at bournmouth but it's the same problem, defensive players getting in attacking positions, unlikely to score. Like lowe on Saturday, it was like he had a free role and was our most attacking threat. It's lowe though, why choose lowe to play that role? And if you say it's because we have nobody better attacking wise then whose fault is thay for having a crap squad. Wagner gets so much praise for the players that came in in the promotion year but now all of a sudden it's somebody else's fault we've brought in dross in attacking positions since coming up. And the bournmouth game was against a team way out of form, they had lost the last 4 games prior to playing us, and since beating us, have lost the next 2 games and conceded 6 goals. You could argue the game was there to win that day but he still stuck with that same formation and same personnel and it didn't work again. And why are you asking me to give him tips? I'm allowed to give my opinion. It's not my job to give him tips and if you think I should be then we are in even bigger trouble than I thought. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Dec 17, 2018 12:09:34 GMT 1
WT - you're just a negative poster, even any hint of praise to the team is followed with a 'but', as per the above statement about B'mouth being on a bad run of form.
Call me biased, happy clapper, whatever, where football is concerned I can't shake off the blind optimism, even if we couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo at the moment.
Town will come again, hopefully in time to save this season, but if not it will happen, whereas it seems like it will be a cold day in hell the time you actually post something with faith, blind optimism and positivity on here...
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Dec 17, 2018 12:13:56 GMT 1
Town will come again, hopefully in time to save this season That's the hope, but you must admit things have to change? Our transfer dealings in the summer have killed us big time. We need to do so much better in January. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Dec 17, 2018 12:19:55 GMT 1
Town will come again, hopefully in time to save this season That's the hope, but you must admit things have to change? Our transfer dealings in the summer have killed us big time. We need to do so much better in January. Of course things have to change, but part of that change needs to be a bit of luck changing as well... We need a striker who's hungry and confident - still struggling to see how B'mouth got that Brooks lad for such a great price, unless his wages are ridiculous. Amazed a bigger club didn't take a punt on him TBH... |
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Mav
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by Mav on Dec 17, 2018 12:21:34 GMT 1
We are,in my opinion, a Burnley, Blackburn, Wigan. We will fluctuate,as we have done, between divisions.Nothing wrong with that. The money generated recently is huge for a club of our stature.
We have done amazingly well to get where we are and yes, we may get relegated this season. It doesn’t stop us being Town fans. If we go back to 12,000 fans at home against Bristol Rovers so be it. I’ll be there. Loved last season and this to an extent but we’ve got to stop being unrealistic, can we not enjoy it for what it is?
We we have a chance to stay up this season but we need to recruit well in January. Last Saturdays atmosphere was a reflection on how we, as a group, feel. A bit nervous, expecting a loss, we won’t score etc. It’s just the way it is.
Lads, worse things happen in life. My brother in law has just been diagnosed with throat cancer, im sure he’ll be fine but his beloved Nottingham Forest won’t be on his mind for a while. It’s life. Shit happens.
I’ve followed Town since 1970 aged 6. Loved every minute. Wouldn’t change a thing.
Trust in OUR team and management and above all OUR chairman.
To you all.... Merry Christmas and a peaceful and relegation free New Year ....UTFT.
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... 
oops sorry I went all Nick for a moment there.
