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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 23:48:31 GMT 1
The problem is we seem to be even less competitive under Jan. It was a bad job to come into in some ways but you’d have hoped he could’ve injected a bit of confidence or nouse or steel to dig out a few points at least, for the fans.
Tbh he lost me the first game with the team he picked and he’s done nothing since to make me change my mind. Knee jerk on my part but just haven’t taken to him or the players efforts this season.
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on Apr 24, 2019 0:07:24 GMT 1
I might be being hasty but I don't think it's going to work out, that said I do feel sorry for him though.
I think he's out of his depth and while he seemed to come in with a bit of a plan that went out of the window very quickly. He did appear to revert back to it on Saturday but I really wish he'd stuck to his guns and kept playing the way he wanted his team to play rather than getting too caught up in results which in reality were meaningless by the time he came in. Results couldn't have been any worse but if he had stuck to a style and formation of how he wanted to play I'd be far happier but instead he panicked. Others have done it before him, Clark and Wagner for example but they didn't do it quite so quickly. Instead we've got a bunch of awful results behind us and unless I'm missing something. "The players aren't his" I keep seeing. No they're not but that doesn't mean he can't work with what he's got and at the end of the day his job title is Head Coach. Coach what you've got. Wagner came in with a plan and not the players, he had a way of playing mapped out before we then brought in a host of players to fit in to that but I can't see what type of player Jan would be after.
It's frustrating because I actually think he's got the basis of a good squad to work with going in to the Championship. We're not full of star names and prima donna's like some sides that have gone down recently and struggled but we've got some good solid Championship players that just aren't good enough for the Premier League. Just because some of them have been shit this season does not mean they aren't good enough for the Championship.
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Post by lochnessterrier on Apr 24, 2019 6:12:36 GMT 1
Judge him after 10 games next season. We are obviously out of our depth in the PL now, but there's a huge gulf between PL and Championship, as the 3 promoted clubs will discover next season.
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Post by kennyk2 on Apr 24, 2019 6:37:54 GMT 1
"JS Quote" thread merged into this thread and bumped.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Apr 24, 2019 7:44:13 GMT 1
I thought Buhler had left but hes still listed on the techical staff, Shame he hasnt more influence as he seemed good with Wagner.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Apr 24, 2019 10:08:47 GMT 1
Why on earth did he throw the water bottle though? Least he gets to watch the games for free.
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on Apr 24, 2019 10:10:09 GMT 1
Spaffing money... buying players that are overpriced and past it? Genius, perhaps best not to put that on a public message board though, this has to be the key to our success going forward. Don't sign these players just sign the good ones, no other team employs this strategy. Also, If the hope hadn't been killed By Jan with the performances on the pitch and in press conferences, we would have been able to keep some players we wanted to build a team around unlike now where anybody that can will want to leave. He is not taking the blame for the mistakes of last summer, but nothing has improved since he came in and some things have got worse. This was not the case when Wagner took over. Even the first season people could see what he was trying to do and a couple of signings could make all the difference. When managers start taking credit for things they haven't done and don't accept any responsibility for the failings of the team there is a bigger problem. Wagner never did this. The club are as much to blame, one huge mistake after another. Takeover has nothing to do with it. The only place the takeover is real is on this board until it happens. I think the point that Bojaj is trying to make is that a number of clubs have - when threatened with relegation - spaffed loads of money in an attempt to stay up/establish themselves. Perversely, sometimes spending more than a player is worth can be money well spent. At our own club, was Wayne Allison worth the money? Well, in so far as how good he was, he wasn't worth £800k (in those days, a lot of money), but in so far as he was exactly the type of player we needed to keep us up he was worth every penny. Who here would value Christian Benteke at £32m? 2 or 3 years ago Crystal Palace did (btw, he's just ended a goal drought that would make Mounie wince), but then they needed to spaff a load of money - Bradford style - in the hope of staying up. It's a risky strategy, but the difference was that spaffing money Bradford style worked for Crystal Palace. Our friends from Manningham were not so lucky. Had Palace failed to stay up that year I would not be in the least bit surprised to have seen them playing league games against Shrewsbury & Accrington this season. That's exactly what I'm getting at and the Crystal Palace situation illustrates it a lot better, cheers.
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Post by Floyds on Apr 24, 2019 10:31:33 GMT 1
Judge him after 10 games next season. We are obviously out of our depth in the PL now, but there's a huge gulf between PL and Championship, as the 3 promoted clubs will discover next season. If he's still here after 10 games next season, I reckon we'll be in the bottom six. Then we'll sack him and be left with a squad of his signings, before writing the season off as you can't judge a manager within the first x months as it's not their team...
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mallyb
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Post by mallyb on Apr 24, 2019 10:36:31 GMT 1
Judge him after 10 games next season. We are obviously out of our depth in the PL now, but there's a huge gulf between PL and Championship, as the 3 promoted clubs will discover next season. Then what? Right off another season? No point spending in January again as too far adrift from going up or Staying up whichever is the case. Do we really have to wait until everybody catches up because everybody won't catch up. There are people here that wouldn't have sacked Grayson or Clarke. We disagree on fault but all agree Jan hasn't done well since arriving, so let's fix that. He could have done better without keeping us up with the players he has. There has been no improvement and actually things have got worse with the same or better players.
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ram
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Post by ram on Apr 24, 2019 11:00:10 GMT 1
If I were the owner of this football club,would I trust this guy with maybe #50million in the close season?....No!
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loumacari
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Post by loumacari on Apr 24, 2019 11:07:28 GMT 1
If I were the owner of this football club,would I trust this guy with maybe #50million in the close season?....No! Never mind £50m, would you trust him with £5m!?!?
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Post by royrace on Apr 24, 2019 11:10:20 GMT 1
Judge him after 10 games next season. We are obviously out of our depth in the PL now, but there's a huge gulf between PL and Championship, as the 3 promoted clubs will discover next season. Then what? Right off another season? No point spending in January again as too far adrift from going up or Staying up whichever is the case. Do we really have to wait until everybody catches up because everybody won't catch up. There are people here that wouldn't have sacked Grayson or Clarke. We disagree on fault but all agree Jan hasn't done well since arriving, so let's fix that. He could have done better without keeping us up with the players he has. There has been no improvement and actually things have got worse with the same or better players. Thankfully Hoyle is a better judge than the 30% of people in this poll who would happily see him tear apart the squad and bring in his own players only to be sacked by Christmas setting us back another season and probably losing some valuable squad members for peanuts and decimating what is left of the team spirit Wagner worked so hard to create. The guy is clearly not up to the job, I'm normally very patient with managers but I'm afraid its been obvious from very early that Jan doesn't have what it takes. I'm actually not sure what he'd have to do for some on here to see the light. Its there to see in just about every area; tactics, organisation, pattern of play, team selection, use of subs, player relationships, team spirit, crazy post match comments including claiming credit for things he hasn't even influenced. He's been a total disaster from day one. The worry is that the clubs eyes are very much on the takeover rather than first team affairs.
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Post by Detective Boyle on Apr 24, 2019 11:22:26 GMT 1
"I’m very pleased with the work he has put in and I’m genuinely excited to see what his team will look like after a full pre-season. The Board of Directors is fully behind Jan as the man to take us forward."
That quote is very recent from our own chairman. I'm sure DH isn't as thick as most people on this thread, and he will appreciate that the failings of this squad are due to the summer and Wagner.
You can wine all you want, Jan will be the manager on the first game of the season. Shall we judge him when he's got his own players in?
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Post by royrace on Apr 24, 2019 11:43:17 GMT 1
"I’m very pleased with the work he has put in and I’m genuinely excited to see what his team will look like after a full pre-season. The Board of Directors is fully behind Jan as the man to take us forward." That quote is very recent from our own chairman. I'm sure DH isn't as thick as most people on this thread, and he will appreciate that the failings of this squad are due to the summer and Wagner. You can wine all you want, Jan will be the manager on the first game of the season. Shall we judge him when he's got his own players in? Ironic. I've already see enough Thanks. You've heard of the dreaded vote of confidence for football managers I assume? What exactly did you expect Hoyle to say when rumours started to surface??? Lets assume Hoyle wasn't happy with Jan and was thinking he'd likely need to sack him before pre season, what do you think he'd come out and say to the press and fans if that were the case?
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Post by Detective Boyle on Apr 24, 2019 11:47:54 GMT 1
"I’m very pleased with the work he has put in and I’m genuinely excited to see what his team will look like after a full pre-season. The Board of Directors is fully behind Jan as the man to take us forward." That quote is very recent from our own chairman. I'm sure DH isn't as thick as most people on this thread, and he will appreciate that the failings of this squad are due to the summer and Wagner. You can wine all you want, Jan will be the manager on the first game of the season. Shall we judge him when he's got his own players in? Ironic. I've already see enough Thanks. You've heard of the dreaded vote of confidence for football managers I assume? What exactly did you expect Hoyle to say when rumours started to surface??? Lets assume Hoyle wasn't happy with Jan and was thinking he'd likely need to sack him before pre season, what do you think he'd come out and say to the press and fans if that were the case? If DH wanted to sack him, then surely he just wouldn't say anything, rather than actively back him so emphatically? Suck it up and move on, he's going to be here next season.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Apr 24, 2019 12:26:56 GMT 1
Judge him after 10 games next season. We are obviously out of our depth in the PL now, but there's a huge gulf between PL and Championship, as the 3 promoted clubs will discover next season. Then what? Right off another season? No point spending in January again as too far adrift from going up or Staying up whichever is the case. Do we really have to wait until everybody catches up because everybody won't catch up. There are people here that wouldn't have sacked Grayson or Clarke. We disagree on fault but all agree Jan hasn't done well since arriving, so let's fix that. He could have done better without keeping us up with the players he has. There has been no improvement and actually things have got worse with the same or better players. Why not? Bottom 6 in the championship next season would be totally unacceptable.
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Post by royrace on Apr 24, 2019 12:55:32 GMT 1
Ironic. I've already see enough Thanks. You've heard of the dreaded vote of confidence for football managers I assume? What exactly did you expect Hoyle to say when rumours started to surface??? Lets assume Hoyle wasn't happy with Jan and was thinking he'd likely need to sack him before pre season, what do you think he'd come out and say to the press and fans if that were the case? If DH wanted to sack him, then surely he just wouldn't say anything, rather than actively back him so emphatically? Suck it up and move on, he's going to be here next season. You make an emphatic statement to nip the story in the bud. Standard. I'll be absolutely amazed (and very worried) if he's here next season. We'll see soon enough I guess. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 24, 2019 19:01:02 GMT 1
Judge him after 10 games next season. We are obviously out of our depth in the PL now, but there's a huge gulf between PL and Championship, as the 3 promoted clubs will discover next season. If he's still here after 10 games next season, I reckon we'll be in the bottom six. Then we'll sack him and be left with a squad of his signings, before writing the season off as you can't judge a manager within the first x months as it's not their team... Personally, for me JS might only have 6 games. If we've shown no improvement by then I'd be seriously considering getting rid. Worst case scenario is that we're out of the League Cup & bottom of the table but with 123 points & the FA Cup still to play for. That shouldn't be insurmountable. Alternatively, we could sack JS & replace him with somebody who hasn't had JS's opportunity to assess the squad. What if the new guy has us playing shit & we're bottom 6 after 10 games? How much time do we give the new man to turn it around? Whether JS will prove to be a good appointment remains to be seen, but the club (having watched him for 2 years) obviously saw something in him to not only appoint him but to not even anywhere else. Whatever potential they saw then, it seems reasonable to at least give that approach a chance to succeed before binning it off as a failed experiment.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Apr 24, 2019 19:48:11 GMT 1
Then what? Right off another season? No point spending in January again as too far adrift from going up or Staying up whichever is the case. Do we really have to wait until everybody catches up because everybody won't catch up. There are people here that wouldn't have sacked Grayson or Clarke. We disagree on fault but all agree Jan hasn't done well since arriving, so let's fix that. He could have done better without keeping us up with the players he has. There has been no improvement and actually things have got worse with the same or better players. Thankfully Hoyle is a better judge than the 30% of people in this poll who would happily see him tear apart the squad and bring in his own players only to be sacked by Christmas setting us back another season and probably losing some valuable squad members for peanuts and decimating what is left of the team spirit Wagner worked so hard to create. The guy is clearly not up to the job, I'm normally very patient with managers but I'm afraid its been obvious from very early that Jan doesn't have what it takes. I'm actually not sure what he'd have to do for some on here to see the light. Its there to see in just about every area; tactics, organisation, pattern of play, team selection, use of subs, player relationships, team spirit, crazy post match comments including claiming credit for things he hasn't even influenced. He's been a total disaster from day one. The worry is that the clubs eyes are very much on the takeover rather than first team affairs. 100% agree with Roy’s summation. I cannot personally see any positives - only negatives and some very major negatives as well . I really fear that his over aggressive approach may have removed any remote chance of some players staying with us for next season. Say what you like, but this guy has NO previous track record in Senior Football, so why should we feel optimistic that he will bring together a competitive squad for next season. Surely too big a risk. If we wait to act until we are struggling next season, then the damage will already have been done.
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loumacari
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Post by loumacari on Apr 24, 2019 20:14:22 GMT 1
Thankfully Hoyle is a better judge than the 30% of people in this poll who would happily see him tear apart the squad and bring in his own players only to be sacked by Christmas setting us back another season and probably losing some valuable squad members for peanuts and decimating what is left of the team spirit Wagner worked so hard to create. The guy is clearly not up to the job, I'm normally very patient with managers but I'm afraid its been obvious from very early that Jan doesn't have what it takes. I'm actually not sure what he'd have to do for some on here to see the light. Its there to see in just about every area; tactics, organisation, pattern of play, team selection, use of subs, player relationships, team spirit, crazy post match comments including claiming credit for things he hasn't even influenced. He's been a total disaster from day one. The worry is that the clubs eyes are very much on the takeover rather than first team affairs. 100% agree with Roy’s summation. I cannot personally see any positives - only negatives and some very major negatives as well . I really fear that his over aggressive approach may have removed any remote chance of some players staying with us for next season. Say what you like, but this guy has NO previous track record in Senior Football, so why should we feel optimistic that he will bring together a competitive squad for next season. Surely too big a risk. If we wait to act until we are struggling next season, then the damage will already have been done. Totally agree, especially if by that point he’s got rid of players that might be useful such as Pritchard and replaced them with his own duds. Anyone who thinks he’s suddenly going to turn it around by signing his own players is living in cloud cuckoo land.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 24, 2019 20:21:41 GMT 1
100% agree with Roy’s summation. I cannot personally see any positives - only negatives and some very major negatives as well . I really fear that his over aggressive approach may have removed any remote chance of some players staying with us for next season. Say what you like, but this guy has NO previous track record in Senior Football, so why should we feel optimistic that he will bring together a competitive squad for next season. Surely too big a risk. If we wait to act until we are struggling next season, then the damage will already have been done. Totally agree, especially if by that point he’s got rid of players that might be useful such as Pritchard and replaced them with his own duds. Anyone who thinks he’s suddenly going to turn it around by signing his own players is living in cloud cuckoo land. That's just it though. We can't say that he WILL turn it around. We're saying that he should be given the chance to succeed - both out of fairness to him & in giving the club a better chance of success.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Apr 24, 2019 20:41:26 GMT 1
Totally agree, especially if by that point he’s got rid of players that might be useful such as Pritchard and replaced them with his own duds. Anyone who thinks he’s suddenly going to turn it around by signing his own players is living in cloud cuckoo land. That's just it though. We can't say that he WILL turn it around. We're saying that he should be given the chance to succeed - both out of fairness to him & in giving the club a better chance of success. Respect your point of view. But after the season we have just endured, I’m really hoping someone takes some positive action to make sure we are competitive next season. Too many risks with this bloke in my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 22:32:51 GMT 1
Jan was appointed because of where he was not who he is. The thought we and other clubs can go back to the same source and find successful managers over and over is silly.
Odds say sooner or later there will be a dud and I think we have already found him.
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Post by linson on Apr 25, 2019 3:59:00 GMT 1
Siewert has failed massively.
His line-ups are a joke His tactics are non existent He's lost the fans He's lost the dressing room He's destroying our set up for next season.
It's like he's actively sabotaging us to be honest. The best we can hope for right now is to play our best players, molly cuddle them and hope they stay for next season but even that he's messing up.
Why are Mooy and Pritchard on the bench? Arguably our two best players Why are we paying the Danish footballers to sit on the bench? They're professional and they have a job to do, letting them rot on the bench will not convince them to stay and playing inferior players is killing us. Why are we setting up with only defence in mind? It is killing our mind set and the players don't seem interested in even attempting to attach anymore. Why are we persisting with a formation that isn't working? 433, 531 are not working. Put two strikers on the pitch and kick the ball to them and it will relieve the pressure at the back.
I have no faith in Siewert to the point where I actually don't even want to watch. The rest of the games this season are a foregone conclusion based on what we've seen so far, he's not taking them seriously and neither should we.
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somtam
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Post by somtam on Apr 25, 2019 6:52:47 GMT 1
Thankfully Hoyle is a better judge than the 30% of people in this poll who would happily see him tear apart the squad and bring in his own players only to be sacked by Christmas setting us back another season and probably losing some valuable squad members for peanuts and decimating what is left of the team spirit Wagner worked so hard to create. The guy is clearly not up to the job, I'm normally very patient with managers but I'm afraid its been obvious from very early that Jan doesn't have what it takes. I'm actually not sure what he'd have to do for some on here to see the light. Its there to see in just about every area; tactics, organisation, pattern of play, team selection, use of subs, player relationships, team spirit, crazy post match comments including claiming credit for things he hasn't even influenced. He's been a total disaster from day one. The worry is that the clubs eyes are very much on the takeover rather than first team affairs. 100% agree with Roy’s summation. I cannot personally see any positives - only negatives and some very major negatives as well . I really fear that his over aggressive approach may have removed any remote chance of some players staying with us for next season. Say what you like, but this guy has NO previous track record in Senior Football, so why should we feel optimistic that he will bring together a competitive squad for next season. Surely too big a risk. If we wait to act until we are struggling next season, then the damage will already have been done. Oh how we laughed at Hockaday's appointment!
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 25, 2019 7:53:10 GMT 1
Jan was appointed because of where he was not who he is. The thought we and other clubs can go back to the same source and find successful managers over and over is silly. Odds say sooner or later there will be a dud and I think we have already found him. I forget where he was when we started scouting him. Was he still at RotWeiss Essen or had he moved to Bochum by then?
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 25, 2019 8:11:33 GMT 1
Then what? Right off another season? No point spending in January again as too far adrift from going up or Staying up whichever is the case. Do we really have to wait until everybody catches up because everybody won't catch up. There are people here that wouldn't have sacked Grayson or Clarke. We disagree on fault but all agree Jan hasn't done well since arriving, so let's fix that. He could have done better without keeping us up with the players he has. There has been no improvement and actually things have got worse with the same or better players. Thankfully Hoyle is a better judge than the 30% of people in this poll who would happily see him tear apart the squad and bring in his own players only to be sacked by Christmas setting us back another season and probably losing some valuable squad members for peanuts and decimating what is left of the team spirit Wagner worked so hard to create. The guy is clearly not up to the job, I'm normally very patient with managers but I'm afraid its been obvious from very early that Jan doesn't have what it takes. I'm actually not sure what he'd have to do for some on here to see the light. Its there to see in just about every area; tactics, organisation, pattern of play, team selection, use of subs, player relationships, team spirit, crazy post match comments including claiming credit for things he hasn't even influenced. He's been a total disaster from day one. The worry is that the clubs eyes are very much on the takeover rather than first team affairs. I would suggest that Dean Hoyle is a better judge than 100% of the people who voted on this poll - whichever way they voted.
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ram
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Post by ram on Apr 25, 2019 9:31:49 GMT 1
Detective Boyle is obviously Dean Hoyle so we should take him at his word and toddle off.
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Post by linson on Apr 26, 2019 7:52:36 GMT 1
Reports coming out that we're not going to exercise our option to extend contracts on Williams and Durm. With the Danes being frozen out and with Mooy and Pritchard unbelievably down the extremely limited pecking order, just exactly what is Siewert doing? He's tearing apart the only good players at this club and at this rate we're going to have splash the cash to replace, meaning our parachute payments will be gone before we've even seen them.
Unrelated to this but if I were him when I came in to this club the first thing I would have done would be to reverse our outgoing loanee's, i.e. VLP and Sohbi. It's clear that one our biggest problems this year was not using widemen.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Apr 26, 2019 8:07:18 GMT 1
Yeah but Sobhi is shit anyway.
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