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Post by dugnet on Aug 6, 2019 9:55:38 GMT 1
Whether you are positive, realistic, cautiously optimistic, unsure, concerned or completely fearful for the future I think that pretty much the general view on last night was that we weren't good enough, had the same problems as last season and were all majorly disappointed.
DATM is often polarised in opinion but I don't know how many pages there are but largely speaking we are all feeling the same.
Yes it is one game and I don't think we have much choice but to see what happens in the short term but continue in this vein for much longer and the season will be lost. What should have been a chance to return to the Premier League will be gone and the 1st season of parachute payments squandered.
Unless there is a masterstroke in the transfer window that opportunity will pass. Do I trust those in charge to find and attract the quality we need? Debatable.
These problems aren't new and can be traced back to decisions taken in the past 2 seasons. Our lack of a strategy overall once promoted is the issue. We know we don't have mega investment of a Bournemouth etc but what is looking likely is that we are admitting we can't emulate the exceedingly well run Burnley.
Short term the coach has to show he is as good as we are told he is. He doesn't have long. PH also needs to be more transparent about what those targets and strategy is for his tenure. This "I know what our targets are" isn't good enough. Tell the fans so we really understand what to expect.
I hope most would agree I am a balanced poster on here but I travelled home last night feeling thoroughly disillusioned with what I saw on the pitch. I also could only see some radical action changing it. It's all very well not to be good enough against Everton, Watford and West Ham but I am not sure performances like last night will be forgiven, with no disrespect, against QPR, Luton etc...
I don't know what will happen but I do know something needs to be done.
UTT
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Post by detox on Aug 6, 2019 10:00:53 GMT 1
Fair enough post that...I think the fact last night effort was pretty much the same as last seasons has knocked fans back a bit. Did we expect too much, maybe...but the disjointed careless performance against Derby was a performance we've all become too accustomed to.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Aug 6, 2019 10:01:53 GMT 1
honestly, I thought we were tactically abysmal for the first 25 minutes last night. After that it got better but not much.
I'm not sure about Siewert. After 5 minutes last night it was screaming out for a change of formation and tactics but he just didn't seem that bothered from where I sit. We were totally outbossed until they were two up.
I agree the coach does not have long. As we saw last season once you start losing games on a regular basis it becomes habitual and it takes a miracle to turn it around.
I hope he can turn it around, but last night was simply not what was expected.
IMO we need a box to box midfielder with a decent engine. Our link up play is lacking.
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Post by kennyk2 on Aug 6, 2019 10:06:46 GMT 1
honestly, I thought we were tactically abysmal for the first 25 minutes last night. After that it got better but not much. I'm not sure about Siewert. After 5 minutes last night it was screaming out for a change of formation and tactics but he just didn't seem that bothered from where I sit. We were totally outbossed until they were two up. I agree the coach does not have long. As we saw last season once you start losing games on a regular basis it becomes habitual and it takes a miracle to turn it around. I hope he can turn it around, but last night was simply not what was expected. IMO we need a box to box midfielder with a decent engine. Our link up play is lacking. He will need to get to know the Championship, learn from his mistakes and adapt. If he does this I feel that with the staff around him he will make a good coach - if he doesn't he's toast! |
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Post by mayorofcov (BFHB) Honours on Aug 6, 2019 10:11:57 GMT 1
Don’t worry hideous brethren everything will fall into place at QPR
We are not on our own,Fulham, Cardiff, Bristol’s etc all messed up.
Massive melt down on ear just for a change.
COME ON YOU BOYS IN BLUE
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buckers
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,785
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Post by buckers on Aug 6, 2019 10:13:53 GMT 1
I said on another thread about the grant and quarner swap. It was the same under Wagner like for like swaps.
Why not take Pritchard off, stick col up top with grant, go 4-4-2 with Mbenza and Kachunga wide? It was screaming for that change with 20 to go. It might not have worked, but what’s the definition of insanity?
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Post by royrace on Aug 6, 2019 11:52:43 GMT 1
Don’t worry hideous brethren everything will fall into place at QPR We are not on our own,Fulham, Cardiff, Bristol’s etc all messed up. Massive melt down on ear just for a change. COME ON YOU BOYS IN BLUE As per last season it's the manner of the performance and the familiarity of the problems. Just gives the impression the manager isn't up to it I'm afraid. Let's see what Saturday brings. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards |
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Post by oldrain on Aug 6, 2019 12:19:33 GMT 1
Bit of a panic on here after one game breaking the game down to basics Derby had 3 chances took 2 we had 4 chances took 1 so if we had won 3-2 it would have been a fair result they never did thing in the second half the problem last night was one we have had for long time giving away stupid goals and not clinical in front of goal
My main moans from last night we need to learn to constantly foul as Waghorn and their defenders did all game and get away with it and get rid of Flo UTT
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Post by upthetown on Aug 6, 2019 12:23:25 GMT 1
Bit of a panic on here after one game breaking the game down to basics Derby had 3 chances took 2 we had 4 chances took 1 so if we had won 3-2 it would have been a fair result they never did thing in the second half the problem last night was one we have had for long time giving away stupid goals and not clinical in front of goal My main moans from last night we need to learn to constantly foul as Waghorn and their defenders did all game and get away with it and get rid of Flo UTT Pretty much it. One stupid moment from Elphick from a nothing punt and 0-1. We could/should have been 1-0 up. Derby then didn’t/couldn’t get out their half for the second half. As poor as we were at times I still felt we were comfortably the better side. Opinions eh! |
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on Aug 6, 2019 12:41:12 GMT 1
Marathon not a sprint. Trying to look at it objectively there were some promising signs, but also major causes for concern. Shortcomings in the same areas as before. I don't think we've scored against a side playing a low block like Derby did in the second half for a few years at this point. The response of the players was to just revert to type- uncreative and unconfident play, in a shape that was incredibly strange. There was nothing 4-3-3 like about it. Watching Flo overlap and fail to find anyone time and again just transported me back to any point in the last 2 seasons. Diakhaby caused them problems down that side in the first half but seemed to be instructed to hang back in midfield after half time. Before Bacuna went off he was furthest up the pitch half the time. As someone else has said, it's concerning that we looked more like scoring in the first half when we were getting battered. I hope Elphick's mistake was a one off but judging by comments elsewhere he does try to be more clever than his coordination should allow him to be. Roll on Saturday, I hope they all prove us wrong. Lose then and we're looking at possibly an awful start, with Fulham and Cardiff coming up after. Siewert gets til October for me. If the problems I mentioned here have persisted, he's lost my support
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Post by Torquayterrier on Aug 6, 2019 12:49:39 GMT 1
Wake up call for both players and fans alike who might have thought dropping a division was a magic wand to make us suddenly start blowing teams away. However, I'm not going to comment much until we have 6-10 games under our belts against a variety of opposition.
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Post by Mastercracker on Aug 6, 2019 13:03:01 GMT 1
Marathon not a sprint. Trying to look at it objectively there were some promising signs, but also major causes for concern. Shortcomings in the same areas as before. I don't think we've scored against a side playing a low block like Derby did in the second half for a few years at this point. The response of the players was to just revert to type- uncreative and unconfident play, in a shape that was incredibly strange. There was nothing 4-3-3 like about it. Watching Flo overlap and fail to find anyone time and again just transported me back to any point in the last 2 seasons. Diakhaby caused them problems down that side in the first half but seemed to be instructed to hang back in midfield after half time. Before Bacuna went off he was furthest up the pitch half the time. As someone else has said, it's concerning that we looked more like scoring in the first half when we were getting battered. I hope Elphick's mistake was a one off but judging by comments elsewhere he does try to be more clever than his coordination should allow him to be. Roll on Saturday, I hope they all prove us wrong. Lose then and we're looking at possibly an awful start, with Fulham and Cardiff coming up after. Siewert gets til October for me. If the problems I mentioned here have persisted, he's lost my support We reverted to 4231 once Bacuna went off. And i dont think those were instructions to Diakhaby, he just has no idea what he's doing on a football pitch. |
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Post by willo on Aug 6, 2019 13:16:37 GMT 1
Wake up call for both players and fans alike who might have thought dropping a division was a magic wand to make us suddenly start blowing teams away. However, I'm not going to comment much until we have 6-10 games under our belts against a variety of opposition. Don’t think he’ll be given that long tbf. Realise the first 4/5 are all tough fixtures but you add a poor start to last year’s poor run & there’s only one outcome. The new manager then gets to marshall what is for me a very decent Championship squad & bring in some experience in January. We’ve wasted this window already, what difference are the next few days going to make? Almost any signing now is a rushed signing. |
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on Aug 6, 2019 14:18:33 GMT 1
Marathon not a sprint. Trying to look at it objectively there were some promising signs, but also major causes for concern. Shortcomings in the same areas as before. I don't think we've scored against a side playing a low block like Derby did in the second half for a few years at this point. The response of the players was to just revert to type- uncreative and unconfident play, in a shape that was incredibly strange. There was nothing 4-3-3 like about it. Watching Flo overlap and fail to find anyone time and again just transported me back to any point in the last 2 seasons. Diakhaby caused them problems down that side in the first half but seemed to be instructed to hang back in midfield after half time. Before Bacuna went off he was furthest up the pitch half the time. As someone else has said, it's concerning that we looked more like scoring in the first half when we were getting battered. I hope Elphick's mistake was a one off but judging by comments elsewhere he does try to be more clever than his coordination should allow him to be. Roll on Saturday, I hope they all prove us wrong. Lose then and we're looking at possibly an awful start, with Fulham and Cardiff coming up after. Siewert gets til October for me. If the problems I mentioned here have persisted, he's lost my support We reverted to 4231 once Bacuna went off. And i dont think those were instructions to Diakhaby, he just has no idea what he's doing on a football pitch. There was no formation change according to Jan- he said that Bacuna and Mooy swapped roles at half time. And I'm pretty sure they were instructions to Diakhaby. He played in a completely different position in the first half, and consequently Flo and the midfielders got forward less. Diakhaby was our most dangerous player in the first half, looked dangerous every time he got the ball, and was the only one to actually run at their players in the whole game. How he was deployed in the second half, combined with how none of the rest of the team actually went straight for their defenders like Diakhaby did first half suggests to me that it was Jan's dodgy tactics. But everyone's made their minds up about Diakhaby already so that doesn't matter |
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Post by Oblong of Dreams on Aug 6, 2019 14:25:16 GMT 1
Fukushima style meltdowns all over the shot after ONE. FUCKING. GAME. Some absolute bedwetters among us.
Even heard a couple of lads scapegoating Coll for the defeat because he came on for two minutes and didn't manage to turn it around. And because he replaced Grant who had been largely marked out of the game anyway.
I'm not entirely convinced that Jan is the man, but he's got another 9 games to win me over. There was a lot to complain about last night but there were a few positives too. We made a few stupid mistakes but so did Derby: we just didn't react quickly enough to punish them. Take Lawrence out of that team and they'll struggle.
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Post by CaptainHart on Aug 6, 2019 14:46:21 GMT 1
We reverted to 4231 once Bacuna went off. And i dont think those were instructions to Diakhaby, he just has no idea what he's doing on a football pitch. There was no formation change according to Jan- he said that Bacuna and Mooy swapped roles at half time. And I'm pretty sure they were instructions to Diakhaby. He played in a completely different position in the first half, and consequently Flo and the midfielders got forward less. Diakhaby was our most dangerous player in the first half, looked dangerous every time he got the ball, and was the only one to actually run at their players in the whole game. How he was deployed in the second half, combined with how none of the rest of the team actually went straight for their defenders like Diakhaby did first half suggests to me that it was Jan's dodgy tactics. But everyone's made their minds up about Diakhaby already so that doesn't matter Spot on. Diakhaby moved inside to give Flo the overlap. Trouble is Jan didn't tell the rest of team what to do when Flo got away. He also realised that having Diakhaby and Flo on the same side made no sense (there was a bizarre moment in the first half when they were breaking down the touchline together) which is why he took Diakhaby off and brought Mbenza on on the left. This adds to the feeling we got the full backs wrong in that Diakhaby needs a steady player behind him for cover rather than someone looking to overlap. Whereas we need an overlapping fullback on the left with Pritchard moving slightly in field. |
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Post by townrwe on Aug 6, 2019 14:48:21 GMT 1
Fukushima style meltdowns all over the shot after ONE. FUCKING. GAME. Some absolute bedwetters among us. Even heard a couple of lads scapegoating Coll for the defeat because he came on for two minutes and didn't manage to turn it around. And because he replaced Grant who had been largely marked out of the game anyway. I'm not entirely convinced that Jan is the man, but he's got another 9 games to win me over. There was a lot to complain about last night but there were a few positives too. We made a few stupid mistakes but so did Derby: we just didn't react quickly enough to punish them. Take Lawrence out of that team and they'll struggle. Its been going on for 2 years with the same set of players. 9 poor games and the season is over, If PH and the club arent going to back him this week, then they may as well bullet him, as can anyone really see him turning it around with this set of players? |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 6, 2019 15:01:27 GMT 1
Fukushima style meltdowns all over the shot after ONE. FUCKING. GAME. Some absolute bedwetters among us. Even heard a couple of lads scapegoating Coll for the defeat because he came on for two minutes and didn't manage to turn it around. And because he replaced Grant who had been largely marked out of the game anyway. I'm not entirely convinced that Jan is the man, but he's got another 9 games to win me over. There was a lot to complain about last night but there were a few positives too. We made a few stupid mistakes but so did Derby: we just didn't react quickly enough to punish them. Take Lawrence out of that team and they'll struggle. Its been going on for 2 years with the same set of players. 9 poor games and the season is over, If PH and the club arent going to back him this week, then they may as well bullet him, as can anyone really see him turning it around with this set of players? what if they 'bullet him' and the next bloke does not win any of the next GAME??? maybe all the 'expert bullshitters' will appear again in 10 games if Jan turns it around and pretend they could always 'see the plan' as they did under Wagner after the squealing whilst we got some good hidings in his first few months about him being 'unknown and having no fucking idea about this division' etc etc etc.. Difference last night was Lawrence a stupid error and two almighty misses.. Fuck me if those had gone in and we won 3-2 the talk would have been about how resilient we have become and how we did not die etc.. fact is we did have the second halF, Lawrence was put out of the game and Derby changed their game plan because we did our game better. 2 goals down last season was end of game at least last night we did try to win it much more than just trying to stay in it.. paper said today 'Town got a goal back but produced nothing in the second half in the opposing last third'  another c*** who clearly was not there or who's opinions cloud what the fuck he is actually watching? ?? |
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on Aug 6, 2019 15:04:49 GMT 1
There was no formation change according to Jan- he said that Bacuna and Mooy swapped roles at half time. And I'm pretty sure they were instructions to Diakhaby. He played in a completely different position in the first half, and consequently Flo and the midfielders got forward less. Diakhaby was our most dangerous player in the first half, looked dangerous every time he got the ball, and was the only one to actually run at their players in the whole game. How he was deployed in the second half, combined with how none of the rest of the team actually went straight for their defenders like Diakhaby did first half suggests to me that it was Jan's dodgy tactics. But everyone's made their minds up about Diakhaby already so that doesn't matter Spot on. Diakhaby moved inside to give Flo the overlap. Trouble is Jan didn't tell the rest of team what to do when Flo got away. He also realised that having Diakhaby and Flo on the same side made no sense (there was a bizarre moment in the first half when they were breaking down the touchline together) which is why he took Diakhaby off and brought Mbenza on on the left. This adds to the feeling we got the full backs wrong in that Diakhaby needs a steady player behind him for cover rather than someone looking to overlap. Whereas we need an overlapping fullback on the left with Pritchard moving slightly in field. Good analysis. Surprised I've never thought about the idea of Pritchard on the right, but it would provide a lot more balance. No point having all the pace on one side |
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Post by huddersfc on Aug 6, 2019 15:30:38 GMT 1
I actually think we were good enough (as individuals) to beat Derby last night. We showed flashes of what individual players were capable of going forward and on a few occasions made them look very ordinary at the back. What we arent good enough at, is being a well coached team, and working together on a plan/strategy, where everyone knows their job and sticks to it. I dont buy into it that most of our players arent good enough for the championship. Compare them to the players we had when we got promoted, even looking at where some of our regular starters are now. How many have moved on to bigger or better things? They are all, bar Billing, at mid-table championship sides or below and not exactly pulling up trees. What they were though, was well coached, they were fit, they all knew exactly what their role was and what was expected of them, and they all pulled together on the pitch. All those things are massively lacking and have been for a while now. I had my say on the manager last season on several occasions and none of my views have changed despite a full summer and pre-season. It was so disjointed last night I dont know where to begin.
You had Grant closing down and pressing 3 players on his own and no-one else was interested, despite pressing looking a very good tactic, as Derby looked very shaky to any pressure at the back. You once again had Hogg playing almost as a centre back, which is one of the most infuriating positions for me, because its such a negative position and a waste of a midfielder (me personally I think its contributed massively over the last few seasons for some of our lack of goals). Its not as though its even stopped us conceding so many goals, so I really dont know why we have Hogg there, ffs lets have another option in midfield and play more positively, we are crying out for more options when we have the ball in midfield and up top. As im sure has been mentioned on here we have Kongolo playing at left back, WHY? Get him at centre back and buy a decent left back, stop wasting him at left back. It all just smacked of "lets try the same again as last season, the opposition wont be as tough, so my tactics will be fine in the championship" because we havnt changed anything, the players and style look just as disjointed, the same problems going forward, the same issues in midfield and stupid errors at the back. The players still dont seem to be fighting for everything, its all very laboured and tough to watch. It seems to be like the Hockaday situation at Leeds, except they realised after a few games he was out of his depth and simply couldnt command the respect and turn it around. We are 16 games in to his tenure and we have won 1, and we still dont look as though number 2 is anywhere close. If the new chairman has watched all 16 games and has no worries and thinks things will just turn out ok, then I for one am very worried. The atmosphere was already starting to turn toxic last night, and if we dont have a good atmosphere, we dont have anything on the pitch to cheer, its going to be a long season.
I would also suggest that the fact we have Quaner who is our supposed strength in depth to bring on, really worries me. The parachute money is already spent, supposedly, but fuck me, we need to invest that 19 million from player sales so we actually have alternatives to bring on that look like footballers.
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Aug 6, 2019 15:34:38 GMT 1
honestly, I thought we were tactically abysmal for the first 25 minutes last night. After that it got better but not much. I'm not sure about Siewert. After 5 minutes last night it was screaming out for a change of formation and tactics but he just didn't seem that bothered from where I sit. We were totally outbossed until they were two up. I agree the coach does not have long. As we saw last season once you start losing games on a regular basis it becomes habitual and it takes a miracle to turn it around. I hope he can turn it around, but last night was simply not what was expected. IMO we need a box to box midfielder with a decent engine. Our link up play is lacking. Bacuna is that man. The other night he just never got going, however, I (tin hat firmly on) think he plays 3x better when mooy isn't there. If we sold mooy and used the money for LB and other areas I would be ok with it. We just looked far more balanced in preseason when mooy wasn't on the field. The youth, desire, pace that we saw in preseason wasn't there last night. Maybe it's just jitters but we shall see in the following 3/4 games now that the first game is out of the way. |
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Post by CaptainHart on Aug 6, 2019 15:42:50 GMT 1
honestly, I thought we were tactically abysmal for the first 25 minutes last night. After that it got better but not much. I'm not sure about Siewert. After 5 minutes last night it was screaming out for a change of formation and tactics but he just didn't seem that bothered from where I sit. We were totally outbossed until they were two up. I agree the coach does not have long. As we saw last season once you start losing games on a regular basis it becomes habitual and it takes a miracle to turn it around. I hope he can turn it around, but last night was simply not what was expected. IMO we need a box to box midfielder with a decent engine. Our link up play is lacking. Bacuna is that man. The other night he just never got going, however, I (tin hat firmly on) think he plays 3x better when mooy isn't there. If we sold mooy and used the money for LB and other areas I would be ok with it. We just looked far more balanced in preseason when mooy wasn't on the field. The youth, desire, pace that we saw in preseason wasn't there last night. Maybe it's just jitters but we shall see in the following 3/4 games now that the first game is out of the way. We were much better once Jan realised he'd started them the wrong way round. |
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another c*** who clearly was not there or who's opinions cloud what the fuck he is actually watching?